Newbie 2064 - (GG)

[navigatorv]

Wow, thing's have gotten a bit more hostile since I was last here.
What I've gathered from everyone's posts is that humaneatingmonkey seems to have a tendency to post things that will get people to react. This likely means he's town since the only reason you'd need to do that is to get a better read on people, but it is possible he's scum doing it for any number of reasons.
Jackson on the other hand has me feeling wary. They spent most of the first two days lurking and then suddenly began posting a ton. This in and of itself isn't necessarily a scum move, they could simply be focusing on getting a read on people, however if you combine that with the fact that they're very quick to defend Micc who's been the primary suspect thus far and them seemingly trying to make us turn on each other, it does read as somewhat concerning. Not outright scummy in my eyes, bit definitely someone to keep an eye on.
On the topic of Micc, their arguments this far have been pretty weak, mostly consisting of "that's a rookie mistake, you'll figure it out with experience" whuch seems to be a good to deflect an argument from a new player without having to actually provide a decent reasoning. That said, I'm getting the feeling that Micc either isn't scum or, if he is, he's not the one to be most concerned about.
Salsabil got awfully defensive when Jackson called her out, moreso than I think was warranted. She's also kept her posts incredibly brief and without much substance. These things could be either poorly disguised scum behavior or simple newbie jitters and I'm not 100% sure which rn.
Orctin has been mostly helpful and he seems to be able to keep a cool head under pressure (a useful but potentially dangerous trait). He seems very similar to me in that we're both focused more on getting a read and breaking down arguments logically than simply voting. My gut tells me he's town, but I can't deny the possibility that he's simply very good at playing the long game for a mafia win.
As for everyone else I don't have a good enough read to say anything about them at this point.

If I had to pick, I'd say my top 3 suspects are, from most to least suspicious, Salsabil, Jackson, and Micc. However, there's still enough doubt that I can't pick a specific person to point the finger at rn. That said
UNVOTE: Micc

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson on the other hand has me feeling wary. They spent most of the first two days lurking and then suddenly began posting a ton. This in and of itself isn't necessarily a scum move, they could simply be focusing on getting a read on people, however if you combine that with the fact that they're very quick to defend Micc who's been the primary suspect thus far and them seemingly trying to make us turn on each other, it does read as somewhat concerning. Not outright scummy in my eyes, bit definitely someone to keep an eye on.

Hey fam, check my signature.
Also I am not going to *not* defend someone that I think is wrongfully pushed just because they're a wagon, that's insane. Please do quote where you think I am trying to make you turn on each other, I literally am saying that Orc/Micc is TvT, trying to *stop* that conflict because I feel they're both Town.

[JacksonVirgo]

If I had to pick, I'd say my top 3 suspects are, from most to least suspicious, Salsabil, Jackson, and Micc. However, there's still enough doubt that I can't pick a specific person to point the finger at rn. That said

It's early on day 1, it does not matter where your vote is as long as you're voting someone you think is scummy. I have no idea why you seem to think it holds a lot of weight in who you specifically vote.

[Dum]

Alright, so im going to be pretty inactive for the weekend, im having my grandma over, and wont have time to do much other than read up on the new posts before going to sleep, so here are my toughs organized in a little text for your convinience

Town Reads:

1-

navigatorv. As of right now, everything they have done looks extremely townie to me, especially with the reads they have been posting (Wich i mostly agree with).

Not so townie reads

1-

Monkey. Now, from what i gather, monkey just has a very aggressive (no offense) personality, so im not surprised by their "hostile" posts, and do not think it should be taken as a sign of being scum or not, nor do i think reaction testing would be particullary effective to measure that. However, i really, and let me stress this

REALLY

dislike how fast monkey jumped into the micc bandwagon, immeadiatly putting Micc at E-1 right after joining. and Their passive aggressive comment when voting Micc

Show us how to react to pressure, Mic

doesnt help their case either, but could be attributed to scum, or just to their aggressive persona. (In their defense, they did unvote shortly after, but that doesnt mean a lot to IMO)

2-

Micc. Oh boi, this is gonna be a long one. Now, i went diving into some old-ish posts by Micc including a game he modded, tryin to look for a way to explain the "overexplaining" some are using to call then scum. From what i can tell (And that is not much, im not a psychic) Micc uses this kind of phrasing when in a "Important function (aka modding a game). Now, since they are NOT modding this game, i can come up with a few different explanations.

1-As a SE in a newbie game, they are trying to help new players by epxlaining everything carefully, so they can better understand the game and have fun. This would make sense and not be a reason for a scumread

2-Alternatively, they might also be a important town role (PR), and are trying to "lead" the town. Not really confident in this one, since im not sure if "leading" is a thing in forum mafia as it is in ToS or IRL mafia. Not too sure about this.

3-They are simply scum trying to mask that fact (and arguably doing a bad job at it) by overexplaining and blending in by looking helpfull. Is this possible? yes, not denying it. is it likely? as of right now, no, option 1 is more likely from my POV.

Scumreads

None, as of right now

Wrapping up

So with all that in mind, my vote is

VOTE: Micc

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, I AM PUTTING MICC AT E-1. DO NOT VOTE THIS WITHOUT A VERY GOOD REASON, OR YOU WILL HAMMER MICC AND LOOK VERY SCUMMY IN THE PROCESS

Now, i realize this is a very controversial vote, and probably granted me so scum points, and goes against a lot i said in this posts, but i have my reasons for it, and im gonna have to just ask ya all to trust me on this one.

PS:I will still be actively reading and replying for the rest of the day, if anyone has anything to say to me

[Dum]

Extra stuff:

I forgot to mention jackson last post. I dont really have a lot for you. They just went from silent to chatty for no reason. Honestly, no opnion on that for me, there is probbaly a very acceptable IRL explanation for it. Or they are just scum. who knows. i sure as heck dont.

[navigatorv]

Sorry, I work fast food so Fridays are busy. Been keeping up with the posts but haven't had time to put anything decent together. I'll try to respond on my break

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's very hard to read newbies

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Dum

[navigatorv]

Hey fam, check my signature.
Also I am not going to *not* defend someone that I think is wrongfully pushed just because they're a wagon, that's insane. Please do quote where you think I am trying to make you turn on each other, I literally am saying that Orc/Micc is TvT, trying to *stop* that conflict because I feel they're both Town.

The lurking isn't what gets me, it's that you went from lurking to dominating the conversation. Just seems a bit odd.
As for quotes, aside from the more active hostility that started right around the time you started posting, there's the vehement refusal to even consider a no-elimination over just voting someone that seems sus with no real evidence.

We are not no-eliminating, that is counter-intuitive to our goals.

Then the defense of Micc in and of itself isn't an issue, but the fact that you seem to view aggressive and borderline antagonistic behavior as not something to worry about

It's in what I said. They seemed to be pushing what I read as NAI

Yet seem to find Dum apologizing suspicious enough to warrant a potential wagon

I am voting Salsa since the read on Dum isn't super strong but they've been overly apologetic which I am thinking may be them doing so to "protect" themselves from any slips they make, which I also think is a subconscious act since they're new to the site.

Combine that with the fact that claiming both orctin and Micc are TvT is actually a very good way to protect a potential scum (or at least disruptive player), without attracting suspicion, it has me wary. Not enough to warrant a vote, but enough to keep an eye out.

If I had to pick, I'd say my top 3 suspects are, from most to least suspicious, Salsabil, Jackson, and Micc. However, there's still enough doubt that I can't pick a specific person to point the finger at rn. That said

It's early on day 1, it does not matter where your vote is as long as you're voting someone you think is scummy. I have no idea why you seem to think it holds a lot of weight in who you specifically vote.

As for this, I'll let you answer your own question.

Ignoring or

half-assing

day-play will make us lose, it's as simple as that.

[Micc]

Salsabil Faria - seems knowledgeable on the game

Can you justify this one for me? I’m not seeing it at all.

Post 36 and 54 (dont know that "link to post shortcut") - demonstrated knowledge of the game and understanding overall reading of players and their town/scum position

Yeah, I couldn’t disagree with this take more. Each of those posts are one sentence long. The first is just expression of a scum read with the barest of detail and the second is handing out a town read to navigatorv for misunderstanding my posting. I think these posts indicate Salsabil Faria as a weak scum-hunter instead of being knowledgeable about the game.

Spoiler:

VOTE: orctin
I think orctin is at least somewhat responsible for our game’s underwhelming start since he demonstrated understanding that a certain amount of aggressiveness is good for moving the game along, but still chose to make a second RVS vote instead of being aggressive.

You're stretching to hard on this which I find scummy atm.

UNVOTE: JacksonVirgo

VOTE: Micc

I just find it odd that you're suddenly taking issue with the people who did RVS when you did it yourself and were advocating it until that post

+ town point to

navigatorv

for this post.

[Micc]

I just find it odd that you're suddenly taking issue with the people who did RVS when you did it yourself and were advocating it until that post

+ town point to

navigatorv

for this post.

You don't have anythign else to post about other than those which is "backing up" your own vote in a sense?

Cause I'm scum (you caught me! )

I'm pretty busy recently, final exam is knocking at the door and I've 0 prep lol! So, I'll post less and engage if I think I've to.

And about the post you quoted, if I'm agreeing someone's pov on someone, what is wrong with that? For the reason I think

Micc

is scummy, if the reason matches with someone's else thought and I think they are town for that, why it’s suspicious to you? I don’t understand your though process here.

Salsabil Faria:
What are your thoughts about post 56 where I explained that navigatorv had misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

Micc feels like he's town.

HEM:
What part of my posting from last night convinced you, or did you feel that way before voting me?

Micc. Oh boi, this is gonna be a long one. Now, i went diving into some old-ish posts by Micc including a game he modded, tryin to look for a way to explain the "overexplaining" some are using to call then scum. From what i can tell (And that is not much, im not a psychic) Micc uses this kind of phrasing when in a "Important function (aka modding a game). Now, since they are NOT modding this game, i can come up with a few different explanations.

1-As a SE in a newbie game, they are trying to help new players by epxlaining everything carefully, so they can better understand the game and have fun. This would make sense and not be a reason for a scumread

2-Alternatively, they might also be a important town role (PR), and are trying to "lead" the town. Not really confident in this one, since im not sure if "leading" is a thing in forum mafia as it is in ToS or IRL mafia. Not too sure about this.

3-They are simply scum trying to mask that fact (and arguably doing a bad job at it) by overexplaining and blending in by looking helpfull. Is this possible? yes, not denying it. is it likely? as of right now, no, option 1 is more likely from my POV.

I think this analysis shows a good approach to scum-hunting that is hard for newbies to mimic as scum. Moves me in the direction of town-reading Dum.

[orctin]

VOTE: Micc

Sat back long enough to allow chance to not see Micc as scum but at this point i'm still not seeing a townie here. I think there is a couple decent reads here once a micc flip is revealed which should help deduce more about the rest of us here. Everything up to an elimination is pretty much a gamble and guesswork.

[Micc]

Did you intend to hammer and miss because of Dum’s miscounting of votes? Or is this supposed to be a reaction test?

[Dum]

Alright, here we go

As some of you may recall last post i made a big deal about Micc being at E-1 etc etc dont hammer or sus bla bla bla. Im sure you got the memo. I also told you guys to trust me on my hypocritical micc vote.

I think its about time i clear this up. That vote was a gamble to put micc at "E-1". I was gambling on someone reading that not actually counting votes for themselves and taking my word for it. Time to cash in on it, and hop im not completly wrong about this.

As i mentioned in my previous analisis, i DO NOT THINK Micc is scum enought to warrant a bandwagon that big to form that fast on them (especially when my singular town read didint vote it). So i decided to see if someone would take the bait and "Hammer" micc.
With that being said,

VOTE: Orctin

Now, there are a few caviats.

For one, this might just be TvT, and both lynchs are wrong. Or maybe orctini legitmatly belives a Micc role reveal will be beneficial (Wich i cant say i would find too bad myself). But i dont think that is thats the case, and im going with my gut here. Lets just hope it doesnt missfire horribily

[Dum]

(or maybe im just a big sheep, but lets not talk about that)

[orctin]

Did you intend to hammer and miss because of Dum’s miscounting of votes? Or is this supposed to be a reaction test?

If i was going to hammer i would of done it earlier when it would of been a hammer

[orctin]

As i noted before i wanted you to have the time to respond yourself before any hammer came down - that's why i didn't vote for you before - Now that you have posted i'm still not reading you as town. And seeing Sum's now vote to myself is leaning me to your partner looking out for you - but that's a guess at this point. I seen Dum early while new to forum play isn't new to the game so they seem to be some strategy in mind in their post and vote. Is it a good one, no idea, but seems to forget i would of ended day already, i choose not to so a player had the time to defend themselves - They have now, and i'm not convinced so it was a simple vote to clarify that.

[orctin]

(damn my spelling is horrible)

[Micc]

Ok, but did you think your vote was the hammer or did you know it was only 4th vote?

[Dum]

Ok, but did you think your vote was the hammer or did you know it was only 4th vote?

Yes, please answer

[orctin]

I knew votes had been withdrawn - i'm keeping up - i just didn't see a better vote choice at this time. HEM and Nav had both moved their votes elsewhere.

[navigatorv]

I gotta say, that play by Dum was definitely unexpected and the analysis was fairly well done. Unfortunately, I don't think taking the bait means anything; it relies on whoever it is not paying attention to the events of the thread which I don't see most of the active players doing, scum or otherwise. The rules at the beginning also said we have to state our intent to hammer on vote 5, which he didn't do. As far as I can tell, the trap did little to tell us about orctin, but did reveal a trickier side to Dum (though whether that will backfire or not remains to be seen).

There's the possibility that Micc and Dum are scum trying to protect each other, but it's just as likely that they could be town, so frustratingly enough this did little to change my mind about the current circumstances; there's just too many possibilities with little to weigh things in anyone's favor.

[Dum]

I gotta say, that play by Dum was definitely unexpected and the analysis was fairly well done. Unfortunately, I don't think taking the bait means anything; it relies on whoever it is not paying attention to the events of the thread which I don't see most of the active players doing, scum or otherwise. The rules at the beginning also said we have to state our intent to hammer on vote 5, which he didn't do. As far as I can tell, the trap did little to tell us about orctin, but did reveal a trickier side to Dum (though whether that will backfire or not remains to be seen).

There's the possibility that Micc and Dum are scum trying to protect each other, but it's just as likely that they could be town, so frustratingly enough this did little to change my mind about the current circumstances; there's just too many possibilities with little to weigh things in anyone's favor.

I wont deny the possibility of Micc having me sheeped, but for now, even IF orctin KNEW they werent hammering, i still find it sus they hopped back into the wagon right after i voted. My point remains for now

[orctin]

Your 104 was a clear 3 hours before i put my vote up, 8 post later - it wasn't right after, so yea if i had come along and posted immediately after you - then you might have something but your fishing here with a long pole and coming up empty, and it was also after HEM put his vote on yourself.

And you still seem to ignore the fact that if all i wanted to do was Hammer Micc, I would of done it with 65. Would of been simple to just cast vote - end day, and get the flip. Instead i noted he was at E-1, left him the chance to post to defend himself, and i gave an opening town/scum read that while early was more just general observations.

You noted your going to be busy this weekend so not as active - i respect that, otherwise right now i'm really leaning to putting my vote on you

[JacksonVirgo]

Responses in red

Hey fam, check my signature.
Also I am not going to *not* defend someone that I think is wrongfully pushed just because they're a wagon, that's insane. Please do quote where you think I am trying to make you turn on each other, I literally am saying that Orc/Micc is TvT, trying to *stop* that conflict because I feel they're both Town.

The lurking isn't what gets me, it's that you went from lurking to dominating the conversation. Just seems a bit odd.
As for quotes, aside from the more active hostility that started right around the time you started posting, there's the vehement refusal to even consider a no-elimination over just voting someone that seems sus with no real evidence.

If that's your issue, why did you say that lurking was the issue. I hardly ever post much in early-game unless someone twists my soul (mainly in a bad way), just the way I play. Also as Micc has said, no-eliminating forces the Town to rely on PRs more than what is needed, and that throws the odds into the Mafia's hands which I do not want. I am assuming that you come from role-madness like games (such as Town of Salem) where there is a lot of PR roles and it's focused on night-play.

We are not no-eliminating, that is counter-intuitive to our goals.

Then the defense of Micc in and of itself isn't an issue, but the fact that you seem to view aggressive and borderline antagonistic behavior as not something to worry about

Aggressive or antagonistic does not equal scummy, that could very well just be their playstyle similar to how someone like DkKoba plays

It's in what I said. They seemed to be pushing what I read as NAI

Yet seem to find Dum apologizing suspicious enough to warrant a potential wagon

Firstly I already said it was mainly gut so I won't be pushing them, so you're misrepresenting my case here. There's also a large difference between why I think that read was NAI and why I think Dum's actions were scummy, which you seemed to ignore.

I am voting Salsa since the read on Dum isn't super strong but they've been overly apologetic which I am thinking may be them doing so to "protect" themselves from any slips they make, which I also think is a subconscious act since they're new to the site.

Combine that with the fact that claiming both orctin and Micc are TvT is actually a very good way to protect a potential scum (or at least disruptive player), without attracting suspicion, it has me wary. Not enough to warrant a vote, but enough to keep an eye out.

If you read them as SvT go for it, I don't and I am not going to push what I don't believe just because I may be read as partners.

If I had to pick, I'd say my top 3 suspects are, from most to least suspicious, Salsabil, Jackson, and Micc. However, there's still enough doubt that I can't pick a specific person to point the finger at rn. That said

It's early on day 1, it does not matter where your vote is as long as you're voting someone you think is scummy. I have no idea why you seem to think it holds a lot of weight in who you specifically vote.

As for this, I'll let you answer your own question.

Ignoring or

half-assing

day-play will make us lose, it's as simple as that.

Again you're misrepresenting. You clearly have scum-reads that are ranked in order, yet choose to not vote at all. Is that because you may be scared of the backlash possibly