Mini 116: Trigger Mafia Concluded

[Candice]

I'm sorry. Upon rereading the thread, it seems I was mistaken about Tam. My apologies.

I'm not quite sure I like that answer too much, Meme, but I'll let it drop for now.

[Jaguar]

Well, this isn't going anywhere. Fine, I'll let you know what I found...

I found an old detective kit that I used to play with as a kid. I did get to use it last night, but I chose to investigate Willows. Yes, I know, doesn't help me any as the result I got back said that Willows was a leprechaun and of course she is dead. Didn't anyone wonder why I posted leprechaun in one of my earlier posts? I thought someone would have asked me about that, since everything else I've posted has been torn to shreds

So far I don't know if I am sane or not (duh), so who knows what happens next. I hope someone triggered a doc or protective role, because otherwise I am dead meat.

Now would you please unvote me and go after someone else?

[Yaw]

Did read over the thread, but with a headache, didn't notice anything.

Since the rest of it's out, Jaguar, what was the actual trigger wording that caused you to find the detective kit?

Not sure what to do about Uraj, given the message that went up in Limited Access. We have virtually no participation from him, and that really has to change one way or another. We can't afford to just let him slide through the next two weeks without contributing.

[nard054]

Didn't anyone wonder why I posted leprechaun in one of my earlier posts? I thought someone would have asked me about that, since everything else I've posted has been torn to shreds

I did notice that. But something else about your post caught my eye. Before you said 'leprechaun' you said 'red penguin'. Now that was weird when I first read it. But It got fishier when BlueSin also said 'red penguin' in post 61. I didn't know what to make of this at the time so I just kept it to myself. I still don't know what to make of it...but I might as well call attention to it because we're as close to touching that subject as I think we'll ever be.

[nard054]

P.S. - I'm not accusing you of doing anything. I just want this explained. (And if 'red penguin' is a common phrase I'm not familiar with, then you can just tell me and ignore the previous post.)

[Yaw]

Read Internet Mafia and all will become clear -- BlueSin had a role in that game that used "Red penguin" among other words for a trigger. I did notice the whole leprechaun thing, but thought nothing of it at the time because I knew "red penguin" was a trigger many of those in this game had seen before. Now, it strikes me as odd because Willows was a townie when she died, not a leprechaun.

[BlueSin]

vote: shady

revote shady because I find his accusiation on me ealier that base on a joke pretty scuumy as I read it back again.

[Jaguar]

Yes, I hit a trigger, and no I don't know exactly which phrase I hit it with.

Sorry Yaw. I'm not sure if I hit it with gun or cop or back-up. Perhaps the fact I was asking for something to help find scum? Personally I think it was the asking for a gun phrase rather than the word gun as I would interpret asking for a gun asking for something to help me find scum. My PM seemed to indicate this, but never did tell me which phrase I hit it with.

As for the Red Penguin comment, Nard, you should have been in the internet mafia game with BlueSin, Yaw and me . It was one of the things that BlueSin had to use in his post to activate protection and made us all thinl he was scummy. In the end we did believe him and killed scum after all

[Tigris]

As the town continues to discuss whom to lynch fervently, one gaze at the town's blackboard tells who is voting for whom, if one can discern it properly that is.

Vote Count

Shady (2): Totem, Bluesin
Bluesin (1): Shady
Tam (1): Jaguar
Jaguar (3): MeMe, Tam, nard

not voting:Candice, yaw, Uraj, otaku

PS If the vote counts are too frequent, just let me know. ^_^ Personally, I always found more frequent to be better then less frequent.

[nard054]

Frequent is better.

Unvote: jaguar

for now. But I'm still trying to find the phrase which would trigger Willow's being a leprechaun (if she even was). There isn't anything really....so this leads me to believe that all triggers are not directly related to what they represent. (Like the word "investigate" could have a doc or vig role attached to it)

[Yaw]

Frequent is very good.

Here's my problem right now -- Totem was able to tell us exactly what word triggered his current situation, while Jaguar isn't able to tell us the exact word or phrase that triggered hers. That implies to me that something's fishy with one of those claims.

[Jaguar]

I thought about that too, I am thinking that Totem was allowed to change, but the trigger word wasn't in his PM. Then when the change came through, it would have been obvious what the trigger was in his case, since he turned into a doughnut

In my case, the trigger isn't so clear. I said a few words that may have been trigger words...

Perhaps Totem can shed some light on this?

[Totem]

I am here I am here.Used all my free time yesterday to respond in DP10 and Don't have much time now either.

And you are right. PM telling me that I hit a trigger and asking if I want to activate it did not contain the trigger word. I only knew after i saw an effect.

There are some small hints in Jaguar messages that sugest that she indead hit the same kind of trigger I did> Something in the wording.
Still Jaguar acts strangely.

[Otaku376]

The leprachaun thing is very interesting since WW left no trace of that when she died. Which I might have to come back to in subsequent days.

There are some small hints in Jaguar messages that sugest that she indead hit the same kind of trigger I did> Something in the wording.

I'm not sure what you mean by "kind" of trigger. Can you explain this more clearly?

[Yaw]

Well, I think that clears up Jaguar's story a bit. At the very least, I'm reasonably convinced she got a pro-town trigger -- although in this game, getting any trigger wouldn't necessarily make one pro-town. Willows did say some odd stuff if you look at her second post. I'm not sure any of it screams "leprechaun" to me, but with 80 triggers out there I'm not sure I want to discount the possibility.

I'm uneasy about MeMe's recent tactic. Lurking is very unlike her, and we haven't heard anything from her since Jaguar's full reveal and Totem's confirmation of how triggers work. What I

really

dislike about it (aside from the silence) is that according to Tigris, the vast majority of triggers are

voluntary

. If you're that scared of triggering something bad, just make it a policy to turn down any opportunities the mod offers. It's much better to do that than to simply not contribute. At any rate, I'd like to hear her opinion on Jaguar now, since she was so gung-ho on voting for Jaguar before the recent claim.

[MeMe]

So "gung ho"? I... 1) said a couple of her posts had been worrying me, 2) explained what they were, and 3) said that I still like my vote on her.

Totem's confirmation that his trigger mechanic was the same as Jag's doesn't clear her (or him for that matter as Tigris said there are universal triggers that can happen to any alignment). My concerns about Jaguar came

prior

to her trigger reveal and they're still valid reasons to stick with my vote.

And I know that

most

triggers are voluntary -- I pointed it out in the very first post of the game -- it's Tigris' later post where she said that some will force a change that worried me. And two things to consider if you think me not wanting to trip a trigger makes me suspicious: 1) Think about it -- would I deliberately go against what is normal play for me if I were scum? It's just so easy for people to point and say "MeMe's acting different!" and I know that. If I were scum, I'd do everything I could to be typical, non-suspicious Me. 2) As Tigris said, the triggers to change mafia to townie are so obscure that they're probably not going to happen, for game balancing reasons...that means, to me, that mafia will more likely gain by tripping triggers, so to try not to do so is safe, not suspicious.

But, if you want to accuse based on lurky tendencies, at least be thorough:

Name - posts (last post date)

BlueSin - 6 (6/22)
Candice - 12 (6/21)
Jaguar - 13 (6/22)
MeMe - 7 (6/21)
nard - 12 (6/21)
Otaku - 7 (6/23)
shady - 11 (6/18)
Tam - 8 (6/20)
Totem - 5 (6/23)
Uraj - 4 (6/20)
Yaw - 15 (6/23)

There are three with less posts than I...one with the same number of posts as I...and one who hasn't posted in five days.

[Yaw]

I didn't say you were necessarily

suspicious

for your stance MeMe, I said I found the tactic of not speaking to be counterproductive. There's a difference.

I also don't agree with point number 2 regarding triggers.

2) As Tigris said, the triggers to change mafia to townie are so obscure that they're probably not going to happen, for game balancing reasons...that means, to me, that mafia will more likely gain by tripping triggers, so to try not to do so is safe, not suspicious.

I don't see how the second point follows from the first. So, the mafia aren't going to trigger a change to townie. What does that have to do with the other 70+ triggers? How does a statement about a couple of triggers being unlikely mean that most triggers will be harmful? If you're that worried about bad triggers, just tell Tigris no if and when she tries to give you one. It's very bad for town if we get into a situation where it's considered bad to speak, because that denies us the information we need to catch the scum.

Also, to be fair, I

did

post about Uraj earlier. I was mistaken in not mentioning shady, and I would definitely like to hear a contribution from him. It seems he's gone to ground since the initial bandwagon of the day passed him by.

[Uraj45]

I do not intend to slide by these few weeks. I think if I rotate I should be able to cover all my games every other day.
I can't say that I have any real suspicions right now, I'm trying to absorb as much as I can at once. I will say that I think that triggering works for the towns advantage. We would certainly benefit from night abilities and I don't think that there are that many harmful ones. But then again I'm a bit of a gambler

[shadyforce]

Wow, that stat by MeMe surprised me too. I've been following but I completely forgot I hadn't actually posted in a while. Not deliberately lurking, just slipped my mind. So partially out of guilt, and partially out of boredom, I went and re-read the thread 10 times, each time looking at each individual player, and looked at who is suspicious and who is not.

A few people are innocent to me. There is nobody extraordinarily suspicious, but after looking at the picture more carefully, I have to say Jaguar isn't at all cleared to me.

Before I say something stupid, I'd just like to ask about the Leprechaun thing. I must have missed it, but where do we know WW was a Leprechaun? Is it on WW's say so?

[MeMe]

I didn't say you were necessarily

suspicious

for your stance MeMe, I said I found the tactic of not speaking to be counterproductive.

Uh...what? Take a look at what you said...

I'm uneasy about MeMe's recent tactic. Lurking is very unlike her, and we haven't heard anything from her since Jaguar's full reveal and Totem's confirmation of how triggers work. What I

really

dislike about it (aside from the silence) is that according to Tigris, the vast majority of triggers are

voluntary

. If you're that scared of triggering something bad, just make it a policy to turn down any opportunities the mod offers. It's much better to do that than to simply not contribute. At any rate, I'd like to hear her opinion on Jaguar now, since she was so gung-ho on voting for Jaguar before the recent claim.

Using words like "uneasy" and "very unlike her" definitely imply suspicion. If you didn't want to accuse me, you should be more careful about your phrasing. Something like...oh..."I think it's counterproductive for you not to post, MeMe" would have made your post much more clear if that's indeed what you meant. Also, whenever a thought is put to the town

about

a player rather than

to

that player -- it's generally indicates an attempt to build a case against him/her.

I also don't agree with point number 2 regarding triggers.

2) As Tigris said, the triggers to change mafia to townie are so obscure that they're probably not going to happen, for game balancing reasons...that means, to me, that mafia will more likely gain by tripping triggers, so to try not to do so is safe, not suspicious.

I don't see how the second point follows from the first. So, the mafia aren't going to trigger a change to townie. What does that have to do with the other 70+ triggers? How does a statement about a couple of triggers being unlikely mean that most triggers will be harmful? If you're that worried about bad triggers, just tell Tigris no if and when she tries to give you one. It's very bad for town if we get into a situation where it's considered bad to speak, because that denies us the information we need to catch the scum.

Again, I know I can refuse MOST trigger changes, but...as I said...Tigris told us that some triggers

force

a change. I don't know what's confusing you, but what I thought I was

very clear

about is that I'd rather not risk changing as, obviously, not all changes are beneficial. My point about the mafia was that they'd probably be

less

concerned about being careful as any trigger they hit probably isn't going to mess their role up too much (and I maintain that your post sounds as though you find my decision more suspect than counterproductive).

And Uraj -- we've had two players claim to have hit triggers so far -- one very bad (cop block) and one possibly good (investigative - but no way to tell if it's accurate as the result on willows in unconfirmed). I'd say that gambling that most triggers would work to our advantage is not the best bet that we could make. Since most games start with 3 or 4 scum and this one started with only 2 -- I'd wager that most triggers either strengthen scum or weaken town, otherwise this game's gonna be a tad unbalanced.

[Otaku376]

that's what's really throwing a wrench in Jaguar's claim, for me at least. With her investigative kit, she said she found WW as a leprechaun. We do NOT know if WW actually was a leprechaun for sure.

[Yaw]

I'd be more inclined to think that there are beneficial and malignant triggers both for town and scum. To get into the numbers thing, the simple fact that there are only two instead of three mafia sort of gives them an advantage. It's harder to lynch one randomly. Even getting away from randomness, with fewer scum it'll be harder to pick up scum tells because there will be less of them. Besides which, Werebear proved in Mountainous Mafia that scum can win a game with only two members and no special abilities in the town, and Vraak X proved in Star Wars Mafia that scum can win a game with only two members in a town

with

special abilities, including a lot of investigative roles. We're sort of in the middle here. At any rate, I think this shows the game would be balanced as is, so I don't see any reason to assume an anti-town skew in the set of triggers.

I'm not sure about Jaguar. If she's scum, then I would tend to think her partner is experienced, because I can't pick out a partner for her from what's gone on so far. I do find the trigger believable in substance, though if anyone can trigger it, that says nothing about her scumminess. I find the fact she investigated Willows to be rather convenient, but it's certainly possible. I think it'll come down to the leprechaun issue. Here's the post any trigger Willows tripped most likely came from...

ah, the lone player posts, thats cool.
Hm, its nice for a mod to not coop us up at night.
The locker gets a bit stuffy you know?
Ah, going to sleep now must assuage the head weirdness its all full of fuzz and gumshoe is all sticky you know?
But I can take the heat from the "man" heh...funny.

I thought potbellied pigs were cute. But hmm not the ones on animal planet the other night...

need sleep...must retire...brain cells...must holster up the bags under my eyes!

All I can say is that it's random. There's nothing in there that screams "leprechaun" at me (referring to Totem's donut). Does anyone find a leprechaun trigger plausible from that post? My thinking process is descending into a WIFOM based on whether or not leprechaun-ness is too wingy for Jaguar to make up, and I don't think that's going to get me anywhere productive...

[shadyforce]

Ok, well I think Jaguar is quite suspicous.

* Jaguar claimed when not under a huge amount of pressure.
* The claim ties up doc protection.
* She claims to have investigated the one person who happens to die that night.
* Her claim of his role cannot be verified by anyone.
* There doesn't seem to be an obvious trigger word unlike Totem's trigger.

It all seems like a scum claiming cop to me. Maybe that's too simple and bvious, but to me it's also the most likely solution, ahead of her telling the truth.

I think I'll add a vote.

Vote: Jaguar

[nard054]

It is possible that she investigated Willows...but the odds are not in favor of that. Also, why Willows? She didn't seem like one of the first people I'd investigate. But I guess at that point it was pretty much random, despite the idle chit chat that was going on last night.

hehe. I never thought that the first night talk could be simply to have triggers happening before day 1. Sounds interesting Totem, and you could be onto something. I wonder what sort of roles would be included for the changeable roles. I assume doc, nurse, cop, back-ups of those, perhaps a vig? Can I have a gun?

Did anyone else find the night talk an obvious source of triggers? In a post before that she said:

So if the triggers are unknown to us, I guess we'll have to just post lots and see what happens....

I interpret this as a "lets see if we can get some triggers now" Kind of contradicting (and out of order on my part) and I'm really not sure what to make of it. So far Jaguar (I don't think I've even mentioned her name yet in this post.....) is the most suspicious to me. I'll read through one more time later and if I see nothing else my vote will most likely go her way.

[Candice]

This is a STRETCH, but "pot bellied pig" may be Willow's link to being a leprechaun. George Clooney has a pet pot bellied pig, and reportedly played a leprechaun in a St. Patty's Day parade.

See this page: http://69.134.110.183/BIOGRA~1.HTM

The pig is mentioned right at the top, and the leprechaun is in the first paragraph.

As I said, this is QUITE a stretch, BUT, it's possible, considering that I believe Tigris said some of the triggers would be obscure, and there IS a link there.