Mafiascum.net

That is a big difference.

Not to me.

In my hypothetical of Jebus scum killing you to frame your role to his fakeclaim makes perfect sense him killing you.

This ONLY works up if he ACTUALLY brought it up. He didn't. So, if the one scenario that makes him scum doesn't make sense...what makes him scum?
Seeing my train of thought on the matter, now?

And he failed to bring what up?

Your hypothetical Jebuscum scenario has him killing me, and then bringing up the fact that he is clear, via me having a nearly identical roleclaim. He failed to bring this argument up at all, and that's the only motivation he would've had to kill me.

seeing as how my lynch gave the same outcome in every sense, would you have considered it an error as well?

No, actually. I would've considered it the correct course of action, if I knew that GLaDOS was very probable town. Due to her being the only major character in the game, I didn't, and due to me being killed, I thought it was her, so if she were to have been lynched, Then we would've had a day five--but said day five would've led to a Green Lynch, anyway--Albert and Zee were confirmed, Jebus was confirmed to me, I knew I was innocent, X was confirmed through Albert...

No matter who we would've lynched amongst the three of Korlash, GLaDOS, and Jebus, we would've won. Had I been alive, it would've likely been through a lynch day five, had it been you, Korlash, an identical outcome to what the Jebus lynch did would've happened.

It's all really a pointless argument, over such a small point.

Mastin wrote:This ONLY works up if he ACTUALLY brought it up. He didn't. So, if the one scenario that makes him scum doesn't make sense...what makes him scum?
Seeing my train of thought on the matter, now?

Not really. What's the time span between when he claimed and when I first brought up the chance of it being faked specifically off yours?

Mastin wrote:Your hypothetical Jebuscum scenario has him killing me, and then bringing up the fact that he is clear, via me having a nearly identical roleclaim. He failed to bring this argument up at all, and that's the only motivation he would've had to kill me.

You're missing the point. He wouldn't have been cleared either way. The point was to make a convinsing fakeclaim, not clear himself. I mean even in what really happened he wasn't cleared. You claimed and died before he even claimed. The fact his claim held similar traits to yours in no way cleared him. The only thing that your role did to his was set up roots that made his at least make sense.

Take both Gorrad and Sera. You can't tell me their claims were not a huge factor in their death. It makes perfect sense to expect the last scum to try and be a little more careful in what he claims. In the hypothetical where Jebus was the scum him killing you to create a solid ground on which to make the rest of the town believe a vanilla claim is possible. And thus Jebus was in no way "cleared."

Mastin wrote:No, actually. I would've considered it the correct course of action, if I knew that GLaDOS was very probable town. Due to her being the only major character in the game, I didn't, and due to me being killed, I thought it was her, so if she were to have been lynched, Then we would've had a day five--but said day five would've led to a Green Lynch, anyway--Albert and Zee were confirmed, Jebus was confirmed to me, I knew I was innocent, X was confirmed through Albert...

... actually without your death you can't even ague not lynching Jebus as the false "clearing" of him you are arguing rests on you being proven town. So in this hypothetical situation there is no reason to expect the town to have lynched GC over Jebus. And this is totally ignoring nightkills as well.

I still find it hard you call lynching Jebus which won us the game 2 days earlier then what you are arguing is ok above a failure. My lynch should have resulted int he same thing so I still don't see why lynching me is fine but lynching Jebus, who was in no way cleared on anything, is some great failure upon the rest of us.

Mastin wrote:No matter who we would've lynched amongst the three of Korlash, GLaDOS, and Jebus, we would've won. Had I been alive, it would've likely been through a lynch day five, had it been you, Korlash, an identical outcome to what the Jebus lynch did would've happened.

... You have like two big issues to deal with here. 1 the fact you hold yourself so high above the others that you being alive would have been the key difference in changing the outcome of the day. And 2 that GC would have ever been lynched. ESPECIALLY if me and Glad were lynched/killed becuase we were two of the biggest against him. If we count in nightkills by that time two more people would have been killed, probably zee and you leaving ABR GC and Xtoxm... and... who do you think get's lynche out of those three?

Mastin wrote:It's all really a pointless argument, over such a small point.

Yeah well I find it a bit wrong for a dead guy to come in yelling abotu how the rest of us were failures and if you had been alive the game would have been so drastically different. Especially when I think you're wrong on so many things...

Really I'm just bored and love to argue with people.

Korlash wrote:Not really. What's the time span between when he claimed and when I first brought up the chance of it being faked specifically off yours?

He claimed day three, BEFORE I had, Korlash. I'm one of the people who ASKED him to claim. :/

You claimed and died before he even claimed.

No, he claimed, and then I told the town that he was confirmed and then I, myself, claimed to explain why. Obviously, your memory on such events is rather poor. That's why I was SCREAMING at my monitor to have you people read my posts--not read my thoughts, POSTS. I had stated in-thread after Jebus claimed that he was clear. Not just randomly claimed and got night-killed due to it.

The fact his claim held similar traits to yours in no way cleared him.

The fact that he did it BEFORE *I* had claimed AT ALL *does*, though. If you had bothered to reread like Albert had done, you would've realized that Jebus claimed first, and then I claimed shortly afterwards due to him going from scummy to instantly clear, in my mind.

I still find it hard you call lynching Jebus which won us the game 2 days earlier then what you are arguing is ok above a failure.

Not two, one.

Day four, any lynch other than Green.
Green kills, GLaDOS doesn't vig Green for whatever reason (like, say, GLaDOS was lynched).

Day five (One day later), we likely lynch Green, the last unconfirmed in the game. (X enabling Albert, Albert confirming ZEE and himself as masons, Me confirming Jebus, Jebus--if paying attention--confirming me)

It was a failure because, as GLaDOS stated, there were two possible targets for her during the night: Green, and you. Had you been lynched, it would've left only Green. A success, 100% of the time.

Had GLaDOS been lynched, admittedly, it would've left you and Green, but I think everyone made it rather clear how they were willing to lynch you first.

Anyway, if I were to have lived through the night, my suspicions of GLaDOS would've been lessened, so I might not have lynched GLaDOS, anyway.

1 the fact you hold yourself so high above the others that you being alive would have been the key difference in changing the outcome of the day.

<--Has a large Ego. Surely, you should've realized this by now.
Yes, I think that if I were alive, the outcome of the day would've been different.

And 2 that GC would have ever been lynched.

I had stated my suspicions of Green since I entered the game.
Albert had stated suspicions of Green.
You had suspicions of Green.
ZEE had suspicions of Green.

Did anyone NOT suspect Green?
Yea, he would've been lynched if he wasn't shot by GLaDOS.

you leaving ABR GC and Xtoxm... and... who do you think get's lynche out of those three?

ABR was confirmed by ZEE, and vice versa. Similarly, X confirmed Albert who confirmed X. In my view, that would leave only Green. X enabling me (in the scenario where GLaDOS is lynched, leaving me as the only person who can possibly have a latent power) would confirm me as well. You get the idea.

Yeah well I find it a bit wrong for a dead guy to come in yelling abotu how the rest of us were failures and if you had been alive the game would have been so drastically different.

I was ticked off that Jebus, the person who I viewed as the most clear by the end of day three, was lynched due to a miscalculation in the vote count.

Especially when I think you're wrong on so many things...

Like the old saying goes,
I suppose we can agree to disagree...

Really I'm just bored and love to argue with people.

Aye. As do I.

Mastin wrote:He claimed day three, BEFORE I had, Korlash. I'm one of the people who ASKED him to claim. :/

Oh? Well then I guess I should pay more attention before running my mouth. I thought he claimed at the start of day 4... But no he did claim near the end of day 3... if I had bothered to fact check that it would have factored into my thoughts of him yesterday. I still would have been ok with his lynch though because it would still make sense that he as scum would have watned to kill you that night to prevent you from saying anything about his claim. Although granted i wouldn't have felt as strongly as I did about it then.

mastin wrote:No, he claimed, and then I told the town that he was confirmed and then I, myself, claimed to explain why. Obviously, your memory on such events is rather poor. That's why I was SCREAMING at my monitor to have you people read my posts--not read my thoughts, POSTS. I had stated in-thread after Jebus claimed that he was clear. Not just randomly claimed and got night-killed due to it.

There is still no way you could clear him. He gave no flavor in his claim all he did was say "I'm this guy and I'm vanilla"... Even if it matched your role it didn't clear him any.

Mastin wrote:Day four, any lynch other than Green.
Green kills, GLaDOS doesn't vig Green for whatever reason (like, say, GLaDOS was lynched).

Day five (One day later), we likely lynch Green, the last unconfirmed in the game. (X enabling Albert, Albert confirming ZEE and himself as masons, Me confirming Jebus, Jebus--if paying attention--confirming me)

It was a failure because, as GLaDOS stated, there were two possible targets for her during the night: Green, and you. Had you been lynched, it would've left only Green. A success, 100% of the time.

Had GLaDOS been lynched, admittedly, it would've left you and Green, but I think everyone made it rather clear how they were willing to lynch you first.

Anyway, if I were to have lived through the night, my suspicions of GLaDOS would've been lessened, so I might not have lynched GLaDOS, anyway.

Ok in one spot you argue a hypothetical which ignores me and then in the next you make it clear I would have been lynched first anyways. Meaning we lynch Glad, then me, then Green... which makes my statement of 2 days earlier true... Hmmm... Now you're just arguing for the sake of it and not to actually make any real points.

And once again, neither you nor Jebus confirmed the other. In fact, if both of you had been alive I would have argued the remaining scum between the two of you. You had made it pretty obvious to me you were a tracker (even if that was not your intention) so when looking at one of you being vanilla adn the other a tracker I would have felt one of you were obviously lying. Now of course this would have all been made under the misconception of me thinking you were a tracker and when you corrected that I probably would then have argued you were scum for giving those fake tracker hints in an attempt to set up a fakeclaim.

In retrospect I'm glad you were killed when you were.

Mastin wrote:<--Has a large Ego. Surely, you should've realized this by now.
Yes, I think that if I were alive, the outcome of the day would've been different.

With players like GC, ABR, Glad and Xtoxm... no... no you wouldn't have... Although they may have bought into the fact you claim to have confirmed Jebus, I doubt it though.

Mastin wrote:I had stated my suspicions of Green since I entered the game.
Albert had stated suspicions of Green.
You had suspicions of Green.
ZEE had suspicions of Green.

Did anyone NOT suspect Green?
Yea, he would've been lynched if he wasn't shot by GLaDOS.

Last I checked ABR was calling Green town. Zee might have suspected Green but he had already shown himself to be a follower and I suspect would have clung to ABR, thus not lynching green. I wouldn't have joined the wagon on Green until ABR or Xtoxm did, so my support hinged on them. Xtoxm and Glad might have and you might have but I feel You and Glad might have been busy looking at me. And when you factor in my mislynch and the nightkill there may not have even been enough players suspicious enough to get a decent wagon on Green. Although eventually POE might have caught up with him.

Mastin wrote:ABR was confirmed by ZEE, and vice versa. Similarly, X confirmed Albert who confirmed X. In my view, that would leave only Green. X enabling me (in the scenario where GLaDOS is lynched, leaving me as the only person who can possibly have a latent power) would confirm me as well. You get the idea.

First off ABR wasn't confirmed by Zee as far as alignment goes, but yes he was accepted town. And I do keep forgetting Xtoxm's confirmation via empowering Albert. So yeah, Rethinking that I do think Green was screwed either way.

Mastin wrote:Like the old saying goes,
I suppose we can agree to disagree...

Naw, I'll agree I was wrong in places and you can just forget the whole thing happened... >.> <.<

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