Mafiascum.net

AP wrote:I don't like Bork's reads list post; it feels really forced.

What am I forcing, exactly?

I honestly found myself wondering today why Slandaar was such a strong townread and I think its partly because I _want_ him to be town. I agreed with most of his reads at that one point, but it was/is mostly a gut read that Im starting to realize was never _that_ strong. That said, hes actually not the _worst_ lynch today.

I kind of doubt Bork/Majiffy are scum together, but I doubt they are both town. I could almost buy a Bork/Slandaar team. I actually might vote Slandaar over Cryo right now since I can point to things of theirs that look fairly town.

P-edit: You felt the need to write something about _everyone_ even when it was not really necessary. "Mac is town, but I can't remember why.".. Ok? You put a shitton of effort into that post evidently, but decided to exclude why you thought Mac was town or fish up a quote number or something to justify it? Just feels an awful lot like McStab from mini 1347 as scum (Slandaar will get me).

And a few of your reads there are a little sketchy. Like why is mastin town for 'town bloc stuff', claim WIFOM aside? You call me scum, but admit that most (all but 1 now?) of your original reasons for suspecting me are invalid. You call Guile nulltown without actually saying anything townie about what he has done. You call qwints null and bother explaining why, feels weird that you spend more time justifying a null read than some of your townreads here.

Oh, and there is no real conclusion to your post like "Ok, Im fine with lynching players x, y, z today, what about everyone else?"

You put all that time into formatting/writing that up and I can't tell why.

Inb4 mastin2 having a stroke when he comes back. Ok, AP out.

AP wrote:P-edit: You felt the need to write something about _everyone_ even when it was not really necessary. "Mac is town, but I can't remember why.".. Ok? You put a shitton of effort into that post evidently, but decided to exclude why you thought Mac was town or fish up a quote number or something to justify it? Just feels an awful lot like McStab from mini 1347 as scum (Slandaar will get me).

Why is posting shit about everyone not necessary? Because you said so? I put shit down as it occurred to me. Some people I put in at the end because I forgot about them and didn't spend as much time on them. I don't care what McStab did -- why do you? I am very clearly not him.

I find that people who try to form cohesive town blocs are generally town. I also find town claim miller more than scum do (I've never actually seen scum do it; I'm sure it's happened). Qwints I actively said I had actively conflicting opinions about instead of just a murky read.

Guile has little to go on but was quick with snap judgments when he was posting. I admit I don't have much on him.

p-edit: I think it's pretty obvious why I made the post -- I want people to know where I stand on people.

AP wrote:You call me scum, but admit that most (all but 1 now?) of your original reasons for suspecting me are invalid.

I only ever HAD one reason. It's the same reason -- I was illustrating how I got there.

And Slaar goes back to ignoring me.
Yep, I'm pretty sure this is the wagon for today.

↑ borkjerfkin wrote:I want people to know where I stand on people.

fuck fuck fuck, Im seriously leaving. Not getting dragged into a debate.

But if the above ^ were true, then you would have just made a list. I got the impression you wanted people to know you stand the way you do on people. Because making a post that shows how you stand on the player list is easy and fast and requires minimal justification. You were being explicit on reasons for reads, but never really went anywhere with the post. It just feels weird >.>. </nitpicking>

I think KoC is kind of town for ignoring me, but his post to Slandaar read lke genuine frustration. If Slandaar flips scum, I might consider a KoC/Slandaar team, but if Slandy is town KoC is probtown imo.

Don't sacrifice RL for this, go do what you need to do, but I'm not dropping this because I don't even know what shaky thing you're trying to pin on me at this point.

AP wrote:
But if the above ^ were true, then you would have just made a list. I got the impression you wanted people to know why you stand the way you do on people. Because making a post that shows how you stand on the player list is easy and fast and requires minimal justification. You were being explicit on reasons for reads, but never really went anywhere with the post. It just feels weird >.>. </nitpicking>

I DID What the hell else do you call that? Where am I "supposed to go with the post?" What does that even mean?

Of course I want people to know why I stand where I stand; I want reads to be explored, refined, and for people to be held accountable for them. What kind of question even is that?

↑ borkjerfkin wrote:I find that people who try to form cohesive town blocs are generally town.

I was the first person to suggest a town bloc. Mastin just kind of went with it.

And no I'm not being snarky like Thor. You said

↑ borkjerfkin wrote:You're only ok with it now because it's buddyish toward you.

and I'm frustrated because you are either saying Im dumb town that is getting buddied by another player blatantly or scum who is just desperately reaching for allies.

without actually thinking I might have some reason for thinking they are town. Seriously, remember in NY161 where Zab claimed VT and matt and I decided he was probtown and tried to wagon majiffy? I dont always see things that look genuinely town, but when I do I trust my instincts. You just discredited whatever reason I may have had and had the gall to tell ME that my townread on them had no justification when really I am town and I believe I had a decent reason for thinking they are town. But you didn't even bother to ask me to back my shit up - you just tell me that Im either blatant scum or getting played as a fool. So ya I didn't really have anythingto respond to that with other than a barrage of sarcastic smilies. What do you want me to say? 1. Im not scum. 2. I have a gut town read on them for reaching out to me and only me. There it is. Now you probably don't see the validity behind my 2 points (assuming you really don't know my alignment / trust me) so what was the point of saying it over sarcastic smilies? At least the smilies made me feel entitled.

I am not going to respond to this now because I don't want you to get dragged away from what you're supposed to be doing.

I will respond to it.

I don't have time to respond to all the nonsense.

↑ Majiffy wrote:
Funny, nothing here that you've posted says anything about your meta. Looks like you're trying to back up some weak scumtell... which you were... which means you're lying again.

I showed as town I use awkward wording as scumtells; the point being if I do it once it shows I use them I could get a ton but it just is time and a lot of effort for something that is actually proven with one link.

Majiffy: WHAT YOU NEVER TALKED ABOUT YOUR META?!

Also note;

Majiffy says here I am 'trying to back up some weak scumtell' (talking about the awkward phrasing). Where he said previously it plain isn't and was very adamant. So is it or isn't it?

Someone lied; it wasn't me.

Choosing to get off my duff and start catching up now while I have time. Reading Cyro differently than in First Time Mafia where they were scum. Also, they're doing something I usually only see from town.

↑ CryoChemist wrote:Also, Slandaar is probably scum. The one game this head was in with him, he tunneled a guy named d3x (some of you may be familiar with him) the entire game and stayed in the background for most the game. Pretty much everyone wrote this off as town vs town and left it alone. We see him doing something similar this game after reading his ISO in regards to us. Something to consider for you all later.

VOTE: AN till it becomes apparent that we are today's lynch in which case we may even self hammer.

This is a Slaandar null-tell. He did this as town in another game vs scum me, starting from a RVS vote.

↑ Angelious Nero wrote:I want an AP or Cryo lynch today and I think we should have one together by no more than the next 16 pages.

↑ Angelious Nero wrote:1 v 1's are dumb dude besides we're town and you're probs town but you still need to die unless we are killing AP today.

Explain how prob town needs to die.

I don't think I agree with AP saying bork's reads seem forced. If he had just said "these people are townreads, these people are scumreads and these are null" you'd have people questioning why x is a townread, why is y a scumread, why do you consider z as null when they said this, that and the next thing. It REALLY nitpicky from AP and I'm not sure where he's going with the accusation.

Although, granted, if he does that he shouldn't be saying he forgets why I'm town.

I am back from PAX East and will be reading this and saying shit and pointing fingers.

borky

why are you talking to scummy looking pidgeywidgey. I am not sure if he is scum but I disagree with his whole line of thinking in this game and in posh we were on the same page nearly all of the time even when we were both being retardedly wrong, lol.

I think cryo is town. I think there is little motivation to push a 1v1 on d1 even if you are under fire. his vt claim supports why he would suggest it in the first place; to maximise info for town. scum are unlikely to do this cos it forces their scummates to either bus, defend or avoid altogether and depending on they did it, it would be something that probably would put their team in the spotlight. cryo is not stupid. I do not think they would do this as scum. let's not even talk about the trail of voting analysis it would leave.

so that is why I am leaning town on him.

slaandar looks awful. not the clear headed logical minded slaandar that I got to know in our previous game together.

I really think he is the best lynch for today. pidgeywidgey needs to be looked at tomorrow. along with the kernel. and goat boy. I agree with most of your town reads.

↑ Mac wrote:PgV - my vote was on Ms Marangal. I unvoted following her soft claim shit because I don't what to make of it right now.

Got it.

↑ AngryPidgeon wrote:So, if I'm being realistic: ANG, KoC, Messiah, Cryo, Guile are lynchable. I'd like people to comment on all those players.

ANG- Don't remember, would have to go look.

KoC- Early scumvibes, not much to change that (I think he had one good post since I made that read. Maybe I can find that)

Messiah- Did an ISO. Leaning scum.

Cryo- I understand not getting your head into a game. But you got two. And while sometimes heads get busy and only one can post, that's not what you said. Leaning scum.

Guille- Is this a hydra too? Will go look and see.

↑ Piratecat wrote:still liking AN, pidgeywidgey and cryo for town

↑ Piratecat wrote:why are you talking to scummy looking pidgeywidgey. I am not sure if he is scum

↑ Piratecat wrote:pidgeywidgey needs to be looked at tomorrow.

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Piratecat.

PC are quite clearly talking out of both sides of their mouth ^. I was a light-moderate townread for BOTH sides of the hydra recently yet Mollie suddenly goes from "AP is prob town" to asking why Bork is interacting with 'scummy pidgeywidgey' and encouraging people to look at me tomorrow. Shes scum and can't remember that she thinks Im town. Piratecat is a quality vote.

AP, how many scum do you think there are on Slandaar's wagon?

I have no idea, who even is on the wagon?

[L-5] Slandaar: Majiffy, Messiah, PirateCat, borkjerfkin, Knight of Cydonia, CryoNudist

Any guess I give you is pretty arbitrary. I don't like to use VCs as the main thrust of my suspicions.

Oh, I meant to guess 2 scum. Somehow I deleted that or forgot to actually write it oO. Im going slightly mad.

Also, gone for about 5 hours.

AP wrote:and I'm frustrated because you are either saying Im dumb town that is getting buddied by another player blatantly or scum who is just desperately reaching for allies.

Very much was saying the latter, although I don't know that I'd call you desperate. I do not think you are dumb. Even if you end up being town, know that I don't think you're dumb.

Fuck this AtE is probably going to work on me because I know exactly how this feels and this only happens to me when I'm town and insulted because when I'm scum I know I'm full of shit and let it roll off my back.

AP wrote:But you didn't even bother to ask me to back my shit up - you just tell me that Im either blatant scum or getting played as a fool. So ya I didn't really have anythingto respond to that with other than a barrage of sarcastic smilies. What do you want me to say? 1. Im not scum. 2. I have a gut town read on them for reaching out to me and only me. There it is. Now you probably don't see the validity behind my 2 points (assuming you really don't know my alignment / trust me) so what was the point of saying it over sarcastic smilies? At least the smilies made me feel entitled.

My accusation is an implicit invitation to back your shit up -- this should be true for pretty much any argument that comes from town in any mafia game ever. I want to discern your alignment and lynch you if you're scum, not to just lynch you no matter what you say. And I don't know how to interpret sarcastic smileys -- they look like you're just ignoring/deflecting me.

AP wrote:2. I have a gut town read on them for reaching out to me and only me.

I guess this gets back to my whole problem with your 725 -- and it's not how you initially phrased it -- you said it wasn't the best way at allaying suspcion. Why does that ping your gut? How reliable is that? The tone I got was that this really sold you on Cryo town; clarify if you would -- how strong is your read on Cryo? All in all, it's uncharacteristic of what I know about your play, even elsewhere in this game. is why I've been calling you scum.

I'll let this read develop more; I'm doubting myself.

p-edit: I kinda agree on the Molliekittens thing. She's being weird with regard to your slot.

Hmm, I thought AP had 4 of the slandaar wagon as scum (Messiah, Piratecat, KoC, Cyro) and had said he thought that one of Majiffy and Bork were scum. That seemed like a pretty strange position to hold with all of them on the same wagon. Need to review his iso.