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Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:34 am
by Regfan
Awestfie, I read Thors
Post 452 as a strong town-tell because it's the sort of post I make pretty much only as town, I get worried about an impending night-kill and want to leave behind reads and thoughts in case I do die whereas as scum I don't do it at all - I also think the 'interaction hunting' ie. Shaun not being partners with Irish/Commandodude is something that town do considerably more than scum. Oh and the fact that scum forgot to submit a kill shouldn't be the
only
reason you think I'm town, you know my meta better than most people though probably not as well as (Empire / Tierce / Tammy ect know it).
In post 997, MontyWhittaker wrote:Reg, all I saw with commandodude was what appeared to be a deliberate choice to not mention Irish whatsoever.
I'm asking you to look at the reverse ie. Irishs's interactions with Commandodude.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:43 am
by awestfie
In post 1000, Regfan wrote:Awestfie, I read Thors
Post 452 as a strong town-tell because it's the sort of post I make pretty much only as town, I get worried about an impending night-kill and want to leave behind reads and thoughts in case I do die whereas as scum I don't do it at all - I also think the 'interaction hunting' ie. Shaun not being partners with Irish/Commandodude is something that town do considerably more than scum. Oh and the fact that scum forgot to submit a kill shouldn't be the
only
reason you think I'm town, you know my meta better than most people though probably not as well as (Empire / Tierce / Tammy ect know it).
I don't town-read you though, I said that I was unsure about your alignment; I was just using you as an example.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:44 am
by awestfie
Oh, and I still don't understand why you think
452 is townie, cause I honestly don't see it, it may apply to your meta, but why does it apply to Thor? You say it's something
you
would be less inclined to do as scum, so how does that magically apply to Thor?
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:44 am
by awestfie
And why should I town-read you, Regfan?
Apparently you weren't happy with what you thought was my town-read on you, so please; tell me why you're town.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:48 am
by Regfan
In post 1002, awestfie wrote:Oh, and I still don't understand why you think
452 is townie, cause I honestly don't see it, it may apply to your meta, but why does it apply to Thor? You say it's something
you
would be less inclined to do as scum, so how does that magically apply to Thor?
It's something I've found to relate to a lot of other people - it's not just a 'personal tell' but rather one that's quite strong generally.
In post 1003, awestfie wrote:And why should I town-read you, Regfan?
Apparently you weren't happy with what you thought was my town-read on you, so please; tell me why you're town.
You are trolling me now, aren't you?
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:48 am
by awestfie
In post 1004, Regfan wrote: In post 1003, awestfie wrote:And why should I town-read you, Regfan?
Apparently you weren't happy with what you thought was my town-read on you, so please; tell me why you're town.
You are trolling me now, aren't you?
You tell me.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:49 am
by Regfan
I think you're just trying to piss me of and I think that was your intention the second you replaced in.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:52 am
by awestfie
In post 1006, Regfan wrote:I think you're just trying to piss me of and I think that was your intention the second you replaced in.
There was no way I could've known I was gonna end up being clear, it just happened.
Honestly, I would've preferred if Nekoko had checked you, if you ask me, that way I could just tell you to lynch the other two over and over.
Things just didn't go my way; anyways, you're sure on Thor being scum, yeah?
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:54 am
by awestfie
Oops, I meant Monty, not Thor.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:57 am
by awestfie
Well, I got the names confused..
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:58 am
by Regfan
In post 1007, awestfie wrote:Things just didn't go my way; anyways, you're sure on
Thor
Monty being scum, yeah?
No, I'm not sure - if I was I'd have voted but I do lean that way; I think interaction-wise he fits better, I think in likelihood of forgetting to submit a kill he fits better and I think his push on me here is contrived as fuck - the fact that he's literally stating he believes I'd have to randomly check the thread at 3;30am my time is such a stretch that I think Town!Monty would have stepped back and realized he was wrong there.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:01 am
by awestfie
Lovely.
It looks like you all want Monty, then.
Although, I want Thor to out his read on Regfan / Monty with some details, because he literally voted Monty without saying all that much today.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:04 am
by MontyWhittaker
The three most relevant posts from Irish's ISO are here, I believe.
In post 799, TheIrishPope wrote:Starts at reply 2226
Check backwards and forward because I have another game done as well and a current one (where my role cannot be disclosed)
I know everyone is checking it right now
You really surprised me with this very elegantly orchestrated post, and the follow up scum one, and I might have to say I disagree just a tad on Monty. I am not completely sure, but something is off about him.
Will you vote, or will you develop reads first?
This post intrigued me. You see, it came right after you posted, Reg, and he disagrees with your townread of me. It wasn't indicative of alignment, but I did find it interesting.
In post 712, TheIrishPope wrote:Crap, my strongest town read was on Sakura.
sycorax and Nekoko seem cleared to me. sycorax is actively scumhunting and contributing immensely to the game. She also looks for doubtful posts and gives insight to the thread overall. Nekoko is playing aggressively, which might be the push we need for the real scum to come out. However, her lack of posts does trouble me. Nekoko, you are about 70% town, so don't screw with my trust.
Marangal and Monty are my strongest scum reads. Monty lurks way too much and is not really contributing to the game... I want to see more posts, more actions. Marangal uses sarcasm to deviate attention away from herself, and writes a lot but is known for hopping into BWs, presumably to blend in. She mainly asks questions, but only contributes occasionally in the game. They are both people I want to look further into.
Thor is null-scum to me, because he pushed Shawn who
conveniently
flipped VT, and uses MM's sarcasm bit. PEdit: and he votes for me on accounts of "Meh."
Commandodude was defended by Shawn, but Shawn flipped town so I'm letting him be.
TL;DR: sycorax, Nekoko, Commandodude, Thor, Marangal, Monty -- from towniest to scummiest
VOTE: MontyWhittaker
He ranks Commando and Thor both in the middle, no help there.
In post 587, TheIrishPope wrote:Interesting question indeed. If he
(Shawn)
is town, Commandodude is most certainly town as well, and I would be lost. Possible: Thor, Nekoko, Sycorax, in no particular order.
(Bolded part mine) That was an interesting assumption.
Ok, Reg, that vote by Irish on Commando early on, I can see it as a possible town tell. The fact is that Commando wasn't doing anything with the game, and certainly wouldn't have coached Irish to do that. I can see Thor coaching him via nighttalk to make the vague assumptions which he made. I'm a little more confident with a Thorscum with that. The main thing clearing you right now, Reg, is that you
did
replace into the game, and I can't buy a relationship between Commando and Irish with what I'm seeing from Irish's posts.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:06 am
by awestfie
Man, I kinda like Monty though, I thought he was town, and he's just actively trying to find the scum today.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:10 am
by MontyWhittaker
In post 1010, Regfan wrote: In post 1007, awestfie wrote:Things just didn't go my way; anyways, you're sure on
Thor
Monty being scum, yeah?
No, I'm not sure - if I was I'd have voted but I do lean that way; I think interaction-wise he fits better, I think in likelihood of forgetting to submit a kill he fits better and I think his push on me here is contrived as fuck - the fact that he's literally stating he believes I'd have to randomly check the thread at 3;30am my time is such a stretch that I think Town!Monty would have stepped back and realized he was wrong there.
I'm going to be honest, that isn't something I should have pursued as far as I did. But I had a cool hypothetical situation and everything!
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile")
My problem was really that I tunneled you, and that was an error on my part. I was focusing on what I saw at the time, and ended up making some completely baseless assumptions.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:11 am
by Regfan
Awestfie, try and explain your Monty town-read for me (In as much detail as possible please) - The "OMGUS doesn't read as a scum-tell" doesn't do much for me.
PEdit: Monty explain to me why you didn't look at Irish's interactions with Commando earlier ie. When you did Irish-Thor? Because looking at Commandodude and saying "He didn't interact with Irish much" and using that as your reasoning behind placing a vote on me earlier is massively opportunistic and partial-information push that ignores the fact that Commando only interacted with maybe 2 players in the whole room.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:17 am
by Regfan
Also Monty I know you attempted to explain it yesterday in
Post 939 but I need some more depth in it - When D2 started what was your thought process order - I'm assuming given that you stated a scum-read or a "Need to look at read" on Ms and Thor you focused on reading into them initially, why did you not comment at the time that you gained X and Y from those reads or didn't gain anything at all. And I assume you
then
moved on to reading Irish; what made you decide to make a case by quote->quote because I don't see that anywhere else from you (Albeit the sample size is small) - the case just seems like a buss attempting reading back at it and that's what I need explained to me.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:30 am
by MontyWhittaker
Well, what I saw was that he ended up mentioning everyone, but I was just ISOing him. In his posts, he never referenced Irish directly to my knowledge. I didn't make the decision to look at Irish's post about Commando because I was thinking that the Commando-Irish connection was damning enough, and that nothing would be revealed with a Irish-Commando look. Was it the right thing to do? No.
Nothing was gained from those reads, they were null. I thought I had posted that, sorry. All I can say is that it was a lynch attempt, not a bus. My interactions with Irish were always genuine, and he had marked me as his main scum read for a significant portion of the game.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:34 am
by Regfan
Well I'm going to go for a run; I tend to think best when running. I'll be back in about an hour or two.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:35 am
by awestfie
Regfan wrote:Awestfie, try and explain your Monty town-read for me (In as much detail as possible please) - The "OMGUS doesn't read as a scum-tell" doesn't do much for me.
Well, okay; I'm not all that confident on the read, but I do like Monty's play today; he just looks like town trying to actively scum-hunt, although I will say that his previous days are a lot weaker.
Here's Monty's voting pattern from day 1 and 2, in order:
Day 1:
He votes TheIrishPope. (
241)
He unvotes TheIrishPope. (
526)
He votes Shawn. (
666)
Day 2:
He votes TheIrishPope. (
716)
--
Alright, now let's look at the interactions / reads that TheIrishPope had with the three of you.
Day 1:
"Thor: Him being an IC and all, he certainly does have more experience. It does not mean he is free of guilt, though. His vote on Shawn seemed very pro-Town, so I have nothing on him so far."
"Commandodude: ?"
"MontyWhittaker: Posted exactly ONCE and hasn't been back. Incited discussion by drawing out Thor, but this one post gives me nothing. Monty is a Mafia Lurker, probably."
All of those are over at
Post 229.
TheIrishPope's first FOS was Monty (
252) yet, he voted Commandodude?
258.
Day 2:
TheIrishPope has Monty and Ms Marangal as his "scummiest players."
712
And then, yeah; that's pretty much it, his last vote was on Nekoko;
Post 739.
--
Just because of all of this now.. I think you're town, Regfan.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:37 am
by awestfie
Are you happy, Regfan? You actually made me re-read.
I'm not sure between Monty/Thor now, but I think you're town.
...I'm wrong, aren't I?
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:40 am
by awestfie
I also didn't answer your question at all, Regfan; because now I'm really unsure as to if Monty is town.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:41 am
by awestfie
Although, I do find it curious that for the most part, TheIrishPope didn't have a read on Commandodude, yet still voted him.
Also, I don't understand why you guys didn't lynch TheIrishPope day 1, but; that's another story.
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:42 am
by MontyWhittaker
Awestfie, what kind of tell is it if scum points out another person as scum? I'm asking seeking to know, not to prove a point. Is it a town, scum, or nulltell?
Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:43 am
by MontyWhittaker
And with that, I am gone. I will see you all a little later today.