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Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:25 am
by petroleumjelly
In post 998, Robbnva wrote: In post 997, petroleumjelly wrote:He has tried to direct investigation targets twice, which is something he should know not to do with his level of experience.
Thanks for proving you are a bad player if you are town. Cause that's factually wrong. There's nothing wrong with giving investigative advice.
Sigh.
Giving investigatory advice implies you are not a Cop (which is bad). If a Cop listens to your advice, it gives scum the opportunity to kill the player being investigated (which is bad). If the Cop does not listen to your advice, then your request was at best pointless and at worst indicative of your role. And of course, the faction that has the most incentive of knowing who is going to be investigated on a given night is obviously scum. Townspeople do not need to know who is going to be investigated at all.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:27 am
by Robbnva
Save your bs advice. You have proven you don't know shit about shit.
Infinity is lynched today ok?
Let's go already or I'll put a timer in this game also and go for a fucking trifecta.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:34 am
by MarioManiac4
Well, here's my reads if people want them.
Smithereens- nothing really of note.
Derek- this was my first scumread and I still maintain it. He's spent almost all of his time voting crazycrab, although he seems to be active. He then seems to push Eggman primarily while the wagon was the most popular- after it fades away his attention on Eggman vanishes and he goes back to crab. He doesn't seem to be posting about anyone but crab. I can understand this if he has limited time online but it doesn't seem like he is, and even if he is I've found as scum, when I do have limited time, I focus on mostly my push and trying to validate it without pushing any other cases, rather than trying to generalize and find good cases (which is what I would do as town)- I'm not the same person as Derek but I think it's an instinct many would have. This is a somewhat bad scumread but it's lower than null nevertheless.
Eggman- "do you think there are 3 scum in a 13p game" is bad. I dislike 199, specifically the part where he says "I wanted to make a post to show that I was reading." Town don't really feel like justifying anything, but scum are generally always on the lookout for their own survival- or newer ones are anyhow. In 267 he says he's not aware of how to scumhunt. This is kinda a serious problem and you'd think he'd have figured it out in his three completed games. Sure enough, a quick look at "Celestial Mafia" where he is actively trying to scumhunt. He is aware of how to scumhunt. This strangely seems to drop, with Creature coming in with a townread on Eggman with a read that doesn't make sense.
crazycrab- I can see the scumminess of this slot when I open the ISO but it isn't hard to put into words- I might be seeing something different. crazycrab is commenting on different light reads. Post 173 is especially over the top, with "feel" appearing twice, along with its old comrade "from my experience". Yet he does make a good point about Eggman- although that isn't hard to fake if Eggman is town. He then follows this up by defending him slightly- this could indicate they are scumbuddies. His #254 is valid, but #173 is still bad. Later on, #515 is bad. If he thought the push was stupid, why didn't he say so instead of just saying that it was probably a SvS and the two most discussed players at the time were his top scumreads, along with those who hadn't posted?
"I think the problem we are having is that while many people read just off people's ISO, I believe that we should consider all the possibilities before we make a decision. I don't know if this is a good strategy because I have only tested it on one game, but it is what seems most fair to me."- this means that he has tested this strategy he is apparently using before. He makes the next few posts about his strategy; a musing by Fohex on crab's Dwlee read turns into a criticism on his strategy, and then says that he was "testing" a strategy in this game? 1)- you said you'd tested it before? and 2)- what's all this talk about strategy about? This game is a scumhunting game, and just because people thought your explanations weren't good enough doesn't mean you should hide your reasoning so that you can keep reads that are unsatisfying to other people?
Y'know, this makes me think- what is he planning to do this game if not explaining his reads? Explaining reads is the way to get your scumreads lynched, and if he's not planning to explain his reads, is he just planning to just state his reads and skate by the whole game? This post's scummy.
#600- why does he listen to a few criticisms of his strategy?
I'm going to post this to get it out there and aim to get the rest of my reads up asap.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:10 am
by Dwlee99
In post 1002, MarioManiac4 wrote:Well, here's my reads if people want them.
Smithereens- nothing really of note.
Derek- this was my first scumread and I still maintain it. He's spent almost all of his time ivoting crazycrab, although he seems to be active. He then seems to push Eggman primarily while the wagon was the most popular- after it fades away his attention on Eggman vanishes and he goes back to crab. He doesn't seem to be posting about anyone but crab. I can understand this if he has limited time online but it doesn't seem like he is, and even if he is I've found as scum, when I do have limited time, I focus on mostly my push and trying to validate it without pushing any other cases, rather than trying to generalize and find good cases (which is what I would do as town)- I'm not the same person as Derek but I think it's an instinct many would have. This is a somewhat bad scumread but it's lower than null nevertheless.
Eggman- "do you think there are 3 scum in a 13p game" is bad. I dislike 199, specifically the part where he says "I wanted to make a post to show that I was reading." Town don't really feel like justifying anything, but scum are generally always on the lookout for their own survival- or newer ones are anyhow. In 267 he says he's not aware of how to scumhunt. This is kinda a serious problem and you'd think he'd have figured it out in his three completed games. Sure enough, a quick look at "Celestial Mafia" where he is actively trying to scumhunt. He is aware of how to scumhunt. This strangely seems to drop, with Creature coming in with a townread on Eggman with a read that doesn't make sense.
crazycrab- I can see the scumminess of this slot when I open the ISO but it isn't hard to put into words- I might be seeing something different. crazycrab is commenting on different light reads. Post 173 is especially over the top, with "feel" appearing twice, along with its old comrade "from my experience". Yet he does make a good point about Eggman- although that isn't hard to fake if Eggman is town. He then follows this up by defending him slightly- this could indicate they are scumbuddies. His #254 is valid, but #173 is still bad. Later on, #515 is bad. If he thought the push was stupid, why didn't he say so instead of just saying that it was probably a SvS and the two most discussed players at the time were his top scumreads, along with those who hadn't posted?
"I think the problem we are having is that while many people read just off people's ISO, I believe that we should consider all the possibilities before we make a decision. I don't know if this is a good strategy because I have only tested it on one game, but it is what seems most fair to me."- this means that he has tested this strategy he is apparently using before. He makes the next few posts about his strategy; a musing by Fohex on crab's Dwlee read turns into a criticism on his strategy, and then says that he was "testing" a strategy in this game? 1)- you said you'd tested it before? and 2)- what's all this talk about strategy about? This game is a scumhunting game, and just because people thought your explanations weren't good enough doesn't mean you should hide your reasoning so that you can keep reads that are unsatisfying to other people?
Y'know, this makes me think- what is he planning to do this game if not explaining his reads? Explaining reads is the way to get your scumreads lynched, and if he's not planning to explain his reads, is he just planning to just state his reads and skate by the whole game? This post's scummy.
#600- why does he listen to a few criticisms of his strategy?
I'm going to post this to get it out there and aim to get the rest of my reads up asap.
Robb we can.compromise on infinity or we could lynch the scum picking all the low hanging fruit andbscum reading them and for some reason just mentioning smithereens??
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:25 am
by Eggman
Oh, uh.
Smithereens has actually been my scumread for the start.
MM4 saying there's nothing to note on Smithereens is not town.
VOTE: Smithereens (again),
FoS: MM4
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:26 am
by Eggman
EBWOP. Oh,
huh
.
One implies I'm not sure of myself, the other implies I'm interested by what I found.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:28 am
by Creature
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:28 am
by Creature
VOTE: MarioManiac4
I don't think you're trying to comment on the current situation.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:03 am
by Robbnva
Dwlee, infinity is scum though and I'm not ok with any other lynch
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:03 am
by Dwlee99
can you promise me mario tomorrow?
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:25 am
by Creature
I don't think this was a slip tbh.
In post 939, Robbnva wrote:Clear something up for me here.
This first quote implies your scum list is Derek, me, or crab
That looks like he's scumreading Derek most, but from the current wagons/focus, he'd join Robb or crab
But this quote has your list as Derek, Mario, and petroleum (which contradicts your previous post)
In post 926, Infinity 324 wrote:From scummiest to towniest, it goes something like this:
Derek, Mario, petroleum, dragon, crab, atm, robb, dwlee, eggman, f-oh-ex, smith, creature
petroleum wagon seems pretty unlikely at this point. Regarding Mario, he said his slot needed more pressure
And this post contradicts again having petroleum now as a lean town
In post 931, Infinity 324 wrote:petroleum is a null to slight lean town, others go up from there. So yeah, too many townreads
I think he has only two scumreads, because he seems to be townreading everybody else, but listed his weaker to stronger townreads
Um your slip is showing bro
vote infinity
Final answer
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:28 am
by Robbnva
If I'm alive I have no issue cause I think he's scum also
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:30 am
by Derek12
Fairly confident Robb is town now.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:33 am
by Derek12
I'm pretty sure a big part of Robb's argument is that having a weak town lean on what you consider the third scummiest player isn't a good thing.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:41 am
by Creature
In post 1013, Derek12 wrote:
I'm pretty sure a big part of Robb's argument is that having a weak town lean on what you consider the third scummiest player isn't a good thing.
It isn't a good thing but doesn't point that's scum. Some town sometimes get paranoid when their scumreads start looking town and they don't have much scum candidates, I already was in that spot, but I tried to take another look at my townreads. It's possible Infinity 324 wanted to share his reads before re-analysing them.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:46 am
by Robbnva
In post 1013, Derek12 wrote:
I'm pretty sure a big part of Robb's argument is that having a weak town lean on what you consider the third scummiest player isn't a good thing.
This.
But also how he keeps flipping his order around
Not to mention he dismissed something off as easily faked yet supposedly town leans somebody for one the the easiest things to fake.
There is probably more but at some point you have to consider body of work. 1 scummy thing fine ignore that. Once 3/4 start popping up then that changes things.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:59 am
by Robbnva
Creature. you used Poe earlier so if you are town you can't be this dense.
With a 99% likelihood that we have 3 scum, with you put all your scum reads in order from towniest to scummiest the last 3 by Poe should be your desired lynch pool. Anyone past that should be considered townier than the last 3
Infinity's lynch pool had me, creature, and Derek and not petroleum yet petroleum was his 3rd scummiest read. That means he wants to lynch people who he has a stronger town read on over the person he has as his 3rd scummiest person.
The kicker is he says he's town reading the 3rd scummiest person.
Town doesn't dwarfed to win if they can't see how this is fundamentally wrong
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:04 am
by Robbnva
Like I'm completely fucking mystified why this is so difficult for people to see.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:08 am
by Infinity 324
In post 997, petroleumjelly wrote:2.)
Infinity 324, can you explain Robbnva's position in your list:
In post 926, Infinity 324 wrote:From scummiest to towniest, it goes something like this:
Derek, Mario, petroleum, dragon, crab, atm, robb, dwlee, eggman, f-oh-ex, smith, creature
Robbnva is one of the few players you have actually expressed and explained your suspicion on. Otherwise you have said you have a potential "gut" read on Derek12 and MarioManiac4. Has something about Robbnva changed your mind on him since your entrance into the game?
For robb, I thought his early interaction with me was towny as he seemed to really believe in the stances he was taking. The stubbornness seems more likely to come from town. Since then, I didn't really see his push on me out of the blue as scum-motivated.
You never finished giving reads on players in
846, can you do that?
Additionally, could you please attempt to explain your gut reads of Derek12 and MarioManiac4? You have given some explanation for your Derek12 suspicion (in
Post #835), but not MarioManiac4.
"Staying on the sidelines and not engaging with people" pretty much sums up my suspicions on derek, he doesn't seem to be trying to figure stuff out or actively pushing his scumreads.
Mario, up until now, I think the gut probably had to do with asking not-so-useful questions since his derek vote. I really don't like his reads list though.
In post 1002, MarioManiac4 wrote:Well, here's my reads if people want them.
Smithereens- nothing really of note.
Derek- this was my first scumread and I still maintain it. He's spent almost all of his time voting crazycrab, although he seems to be active. He then seems to push Eggman primarily while the wagon was the most popular- after it fades away his attention on Eggman vanishes and he goes back to crab. He doesn't seem to be posting about anyone but crab. I can understand this if he has limited time online but it doesn't seem like he is, and even if he is I've found as scum, when I do have limited time, I focus on mostly my push and trying to validate it without pushing any other cases, rather than trying to generalize and find good cases (which is what I would do as town)- I'm not the same person as Derek but I think it's an instinct many would have. This is a somewhat bad scumread but it's lower than null nevertheless.
Eggman- "do you think there are 3 scum in a 13p game" is bad. I dislike 199, specifically the part where he says "I wanted to make a post to show that I was reading." Town don't really feel like justifying anything, but scum are generally always on the lookout for their own survival- or newer ones are anyhow. In 267 he says he's not aware of how to scumhunt. This is kinda a serious problem and you'd think he'd have figured it out in his three completed games. Sure enough, a quick look at "Celestial Mafia" where he is actively trying to scumhunt. He is aware of how to scumhunt. This strangely seems to drop, with Creature coming in with a townread on Eggman with a read that doesn't make sense.
crazycrab- I can see the scumminess of this slot when I open the ISO but it isn't hard to put into words- I might be seeing something different. crazycrab is commenting on different light reads. Post 173 is especially over the top, with "feel" appearing twice, along with its old comrade "from my experience". Yet he does make a good point about Eggman- although that isn't hard to fake if Eggman is town. He then follows this up by defending him slightly- this could indicate they are scumbuddies. His #254 is valid, but #173 is still bad. Later on, #515 is bad. If he thought the push was stupid, why didn't he say so instead of just saying that it was probably a SvS and the two most discussed players at the time were his top scumreads, along with those who hadn't posted?
"I think the problem we are having is that while many people read just off people's ISO, I believe that we should consider all the possibilities before we make a decision. I don't know if this is a good strategy because I have only tested it on one game, but it is what seems most fair to me."- this means that he has tested this strategy he is apparently using before. He makes the next few posts about his strategy; a musing by Fohex on crab's Dwlee read turns into a criticism on his strategy, and then says that he was "testing" a strategy in this game? 1)- you said you'd tested it before? and 2)- what's all this talk about strategy about? This game is a scumhunting game, and just because people thought your explanations weren't good enough doesn't mean you should hide your reasoning so that you can keep reads that are unsatisfying to other people?
Y'know, this makes me think- what is he planning to do this game if not explaining his reads? Explaining reads is the way to get your scumreads lynched, and if he's not planning to explain his reads, is he just planning to just state his reads and skate by the whole game? This post's scummy.
#600- why does he listen to a few criticisms of his strategy?
I'm going to post this to get it out there and aim to get the rest of my reads up asap.
Mario is saying a lot to not take very definitive stances and nitpicking on things that aren't really scummy. These don't look like genuine reads to me.
Vote is staying where it is.
Derek, what do you think about robb's case on me? I don't like how you popped in to explain him but didn't give your opinion on it.
Don't think derek and mario are both scum because they wouldn't bus so early, but bleeeeh.
I'm going to ISO dragon and crab later, I'm starting to have doubts about them.
PEdit: petroleum isn't getting lynched today, that's why I didn't mention them lol
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:08 am
by Dragon of the West
@petroleumjelly, That crumb wasn't intended purely as a crumb. I posted that in hopes to jog Robb's memory of the neighborhood. Like I mentioned before, I forgot to post in it for a few days. When I finally did post in it, he didn't respond. That OOC post was to remind him to check because he hadn't responded in three days since my first post. He posted in the neighborhood thread that night, so I took it that it worked to remind him.
As for the Eggman crumb, I just felt uncomfortable about it. I wouldn't ever see a reason to legitimately crumb VT but that's me. I realize now that it may have just been something Eggman may do, while I do still take issue with it in general. Finally, I never tried to "push the lynch through". I solely was supporting my reason for my vote on him. Not trying to convince anyone to hammer in that moment
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:08 am
by Creature
In post 1016, Robbnva wrote:Creature. you used Poe earlier so if you are town you can't be this dense.
Why not? Getting townreads is easier than getting scumreads, at least you get some way to sort those you can't read.
Also, I think you mean't crab.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:11 am
by Infinity 324
In post 1019, Dragon of the West wrote:
As for the Eggman crumb, I just felt uncomfortable about it. I wouldn't ever see a reason to legitimately crumb VT but that's me. I realize now that it may have just been something Eggman may do, while I do still take issue with it in general. Finally, I never tried to "push the lynch through". I solely was supporting my reason for my vote on him. Not trying to convince anyone to hammer in that moment
hold on a sec, we are getting heavy scumdar pings in the direction of post 1019, we believe a dragon of the west may be in that area, over
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:28 am
by Dragon of the West
I don't think I ever tried to push a hammer vote through. I just said that eggman was my main target to lynch day one at that moment. And I think it's fair that I would support my reads if I'm arguing why someone is scum. Please quote where I said we should hammer RIGHT THERE if you really think I did say that
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:34 am
by Dragon of the West
Yeah I just went back and I never once said we should hammer him. If you go on further, I support the idea that we should move pressure around to gain more info prior to lynching anyone. So I REALLY don't know what you mean
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:45 am
by Infinity 324
First of all, neither I nor petroleum said you were trying to get someone to quick hammer, and you making the distinction between calling eggman scum and trying to push the lynch is a nitpick and unnecessary defense. I also didn't like your odd justification of why you changed your mind about the eggman crumb. Now you're just getting overdefensive and assuming things I didn't say.
Yeah I'm having serious doubts about dragon.
