Mafiascum.net

Thank you, Aj. We need to hear from everyone else too. Scum need to be locked into claiming one or the other when the time comes for their full claim.

~ Raven

Guarantee it's only me.

I'll return here to claim within the 24 hour time limit SXN proposed. I'm hoping more people will have claimed whether or not they can target by then. Please ask yourselves what you would lose from it as town, and what we would gain as scum.

~ Raven

Scum making a fake claim could avoid being caught up in a contradiction. That's common knowledge. Why are you pretending like you don't know this?

Votecount 3.3

Persivul

(1) - Seiko x Naomi

(L-1!)

Not Voting

(3) - Aj The Epic, Syryana, Persivul, Ultralisk, The Oxford Bubbles

With

5

players eligible to vote, it’s

3

to lynch!

Day 3 will end in

(expired on 2017-02-14 08:21:03).

Mod Notes:

None!

My ability doesn't target.

Persivul/SxN just comply with this so we can get the claim.

I've already full claimed. I have no night targeting ability. I'm a double voter, and this is my last day of it.

In post 977, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:All right. It would be beneficial for everyone to claim whether they have an ability that can directly and intentionally target us before we claim. I don't have a lot of experience with set-up analysis, but I think this is the correct play.
Would everyone be OK with that?

~ Raven

we don't.

We're Li Li. Our ability is Fast Feet. If we're targeted by any abilities, we become immune to all abilities the next night. That includes kills.
I wanted people to claim whether or not they could target so it was less likely the Mafia could lie about having activated our ability. I believe Aj's town, so if we're targeted we should be Bulletproof the night following Lylo.

~ Raven

Wow.

VOTE: The Oxford Bubbles

I don't know that I even care about the rest of massclaim at this point tbh

I can't understand your thoughts, Syryana. Why are you voting us?

~ Raven

Because literally nothing in your 1009 comes from a town POV.

That doesn't help me understand. What are you reading as scum motivated?

~ Raven

SYR you should claim regardless.

Sure.

Chromie, Time Warp, 1-shot governor. Doesn't work in LyLo.

I believe it's your turn?

technically SxN by my list but for the sake of time...

I'm Brightwing. I'm a compulsive targeter The role literally does nothing else.

In post 1010, Syryana wrote:Wow.

VOTE: The Oxford Bubbles

Scum found. I know I have to die today, but lynch this tomorrow. I'm so mislynchable that I figured scum would be tempted to push someone other than me. Syry's hoping my self preservation instinct will kick in and I'll use my second vote to hammer TOB. Then he kills AJ tonight, goes into lylo tomorrow with me and seiko, and has an easy win due to seiko's tunneling.

Further, AJ's claim and TOB's claim support each other. Neither makes sense without the other.

UNVOTE:
UNVOTE: Ultralisk

Talk it out as desired then hammer me.

I honestly was expecting a more explicit interaction from TOB's role. While waiting, I was thinking it was largely Syr just cuz a close-tailored interaction with my role would suggest town because otherwise why the hell would I compulsively target him? I've prodded SxN and Bork respectively trying to see if my role would do anything.

In post 1018, Persivul wrote:Scum found. I know I have to die today, but lynch this tomorrow. I'm so mislynchable that I figured scum would be tempted to push someone other than me. Syry's hoping my self preservation instinct will kick in and I'll use my second vote to hammer TOB.

I was hoping you'd hammer TOB, actually. Then we'd have TOB confirmed town, you confirmed scum, I governate, you die with vengeance and we win the game.

In post 1018, Persivul wrote:Further, AJ's claim and TOB's claim support each other. Neither makes sense without the other.

Not true. What make sense is that yours and Dunn's powers get balanced out by mine. Hated-maker+public doublevoter - governator = balance?

In post 1019, Aj The Epic wrote:I honestly was expecting a more explicit interaction from TOB's role. While waiting, I was thinking it was largely Syr just cuz a close-tailored interaction with my role would suggest town because otherwise why the hell would I compulsively target him? I've prodded SxN and Bork respectively trying to see if my role would do anything.

If I understand your last sentence correctly you pick your target and otherwise your role does nothing. Okay.

This seems an appropriate time to explain why I'm voting TOB in a little more detail.

In post 977, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:All right. It would be beneficial for everyone to claim whether they have an ability that can directly and intentionally target us before we claim. I don't have a lot of experience with set-up analysis, but I think this is the correct play.
Would everyone be OK with that?

~ Raven

In post 1000, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:Thank you, Aj. We need to hear from everyone else too. Scum need to be locked into claiming one or the other when the time comes for their full claim.

~ Raven

So we have TOB requesting knowledge of whether folks can target them or not. Reason: locking scum out of false claiming their way out of something. Okay. In my mind they have some kind of investigative result (or lack thereof) involving people targeting them so they can pounce if scum false claim. Reasonable enough.

This is where shit gets dicey.

The Oxford Bubbles wrote:We're Li Li. Our ability is Fast Feet. If we're targeted by any abilities, we become immune to all abilities the next night. That includes kills.
I wanted people to claim whether or not they could target so it was less likely the Mafia could lie about having activated our ability. I believe Aj's town, so if we're targeted we should be Bulletproof the night following Lylo.

~ Raven

Multitude of problems with this post. First, this ability has no effect on scum or their fakeclaims. If targeted, TOB becomes ability immune at night. How, exactly, does that lock scum out of claiming pretty much anything? Second, none of the claimed abilities or flipped abilities affect town adversely at night. Ergo it I'm going to list the abilities for ease of making my point.

List of flipped/claimed abilities:
Syryana - governor (does not target, merely prevents lynch death) *day ability*
Persivul - controls an ultralisk making him a doublevoter in effect *day ability*
Shadow_Step - Non-consecutive doctor *night ability*
Charloux - Postmortem public cop *night ability*
Dunnstral - delayed effect hated-maker *day ability*
borkjerfkin - Extended role-watcher (Action X happened to person Y, etc) *night ability*
AjTheEpic - Compulsive fruit vendor *night ability*
TOB - if targeted, becomes ability/kill immune the following night *night ability*
Seiko - ??? (not a killing role, whatever it is)

So in short we have a doc, role-watcher, a fruit vendor, a cop and potentially whatever the hell Seiko is. Balance wise TOB's role makes no sense for town to have in context of the game given we already have a flipped doctor. It makes even less sense in that it would be possible to make TOB-town completely immune to any mafia abilities and/or kills for the duration of the game. In a MICRO.

Problem three: The last two sentences of the claim. Quoted below.

The Oxford Bubbles wrote:I wanted people to claim whether or not they could target so it was less likely the Mafia could lie about having activated our ability. I believe Aj's town, so if we're targeted we should be Bulletproof the night following Lylo.

Literally none of this matters in the current gamestate. Any utility this role may have had went out the window post massclaim.

We've had a lot of posturing from TOB over the last few pages about how their role is town and they need information to stop the Mafia from lying and doing bad things etc. I find it absolutely inconceivable that they could believe that their role in any way could even have utility for town at this point, much less that their statements/claim over the last few pages prevent the town from losing the game. I believe they have some kind of ability that activates when they get targeted (that much I believe) and that they needed to know about it prior to claiming. I think the rest of their posting is an attempt at theater to appear town.

TLDR: TOB is scum because
1. They postured a lot about needing to know things "for the good of the town" when their role as claimed has no effect on the gamestate.
2. Their claimed role makes zero sense balance wise.

So, you have all that reasoning to scum read TOB, and you voted them...but if I had hammered them, you would have governed them.

In post 1018, Persivul wrote:Talk it out as desired then hammer me.

Scratch that. When discussion is done I should actually hammer myself.

In fact I'm not even a fruit vendor. SxN can confirm if they received a note saying they were targeted, but I'm pretty sure not even THAT part gets noted.

P-edit: No using the govern should NOT happen. It puts us in Mylo tomorrow with no flip. Verifying Syr's role exists isn't the point. More of having his claim to note any obvious balance issues.

For targeting, I wonder if being governed wouldn't trigger it as well... Bork, myself, Charl, S_S have targeted abilities of some sort right now so there are decent ways to trigger it.