In post 44, Mathdino wrote:The point is Shoshin was mislynched for being bad at town
When you come back I’d like to explain this blatant misrep. Sho was mislynched strictly because mumble’s fuck up.
I was scum that game. The moment the fruit vendor flipped, sho was a lock to be lynched and mumble was the direct cause.
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:41 pm
by Gustavo
You to explain*
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:28 pm
by Nauci
I'm vvv drunk right now (my Twitch emote is AsianGlow for a reason!) so this is the perfect time for some top of my head responses and comments, because I just went on a 40 minute rant about the power to waste ratio of nuclear energy
-Shoshin I've said several times that Irrelephant making lots of posts shading players had extremely sparse or poor or forced explanations (not liking BS's writing style, Skitter supposedly not contributing enough) and later also poor retcon explanations.
-I also found his reaction to Keyser plausible as nervous scum and implausible as town
-it's outright deceptive at this point to say I've only made a "don't rule out as potential scum" case
-i actually haven't been paying attention to votes on me (and generally don't)
-i didn't realize until this afternoon that Shoshin has had her vote on me since #191; I frequently park my vote until I get something I'm actually actively voting on so I don't react negatively to this; I am empathetic to wanting to pressure and sort me especially because I was afk all weekend. Sadly d1 votes on me factor almost nothing into my play but I'd like to think that I've stepped it up plenty without regards to that pressure
-all that grilling to me about Irrelephant feels more towny now that I know she was scum reading me; previously I worried more that it was a bizarrely aggressive defense of Irrelephant11. I was beginning to waver on my town read of Shoshin but I think it's still a mild green
-Gustavo there are several women in this game and I'd really appreciate if you used the pronouns next to our avatars. Also, as far as day 1 goes this game was much more telling than most after page 5 so it's worth skimming the entirety of
-i don't think it's scummy to point out the Shoshin vote as something to take note of but I disagree it's enough for a scum read
-going to hold off on the invis analysis because almost all of his posts were "catching up now" or "nap time" crap so I might as well wait for NM to post
-I've been ignoring vote counts for too long and should think about it
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:38 pm
by Nauci
-the worst wagon was because A: Gemini's replace out was suspicious, B: the worst has made lots of fluff posts and refused to effort post or explain much reasoning yet
-invis votes were for the apathy
My wagon:
-math voted me a while back for not having been as town as he thinks I could have been but that was like 20 pages and 6 wall posts ago
-irrelephant voted me because of some combination of bias from me voting and attacking him and feeling my posts were "fake"
-shoshin voted me because... ? I actually am not sure about this one but it was 20+ pages ago
-the worst said some stuff about how I wasn't as engaged as he has seen town me be, but this was also many pages back
-i can't remember when or why momrangal did tbh
-skitter I am drunk dumb rn but can you explain what you mean by white knighting a tw lynch? Does that mean being against said lynch?
-ty for the Shoshin game threads I will read those during my hangover
-so far almost all of the wagons have been largely "player x hasn't been as town as I know player x can be" based, except for my wall post on Irrelephant, I think. Let's try to do more scum strategy/pov catching?
I hope to come back to new math/Bernie/nm posts goodnight y'all
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:14 pm
by brassherald
"A penny saved is twopence dear"
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:33 am
by Irrelephant11
Gustavo, tell me if I'm reading your case on Nauci correctly:
In post 814, the worst wrote:uh pardon me since when do you know me well enough that you can tell what's fake from me? o.0
Even this way of defending himself is bullshit. I call something fake, and his response is, "you don't know me well enough to know it's fake." He's not even denying that it's fake... instead he just wants to discredit me...
I don’t even know how you reached that conclusion...
What's your confusion?
It’s like a huge misrep on your part. The worst’s question was valid. He doesn’t have to deny that it was fake. You have the burden of proof to prove it was fake. Innocent until proven guilty
2. She misrepresented this particular post from the worst.
He’s not a team player. I ask him a few questions and he flails and votes me. By his own definition of what scum is, he’s guilty of being scum.
I’ll see y’all day 2.
3. Therefore, her actions are not protown, and if you were to read her the same way she suggests reading Not_Mafia, she is scum.
Am I summarizing correctly? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting any of your words.
Assuming you agree that what I said is a good summary...
1. I have voted someone I don't find scummy as scum (duh), and I have voted someone I want to sort as town. Why is this as alignment indicative as you say it is for Shoshin?
2. Why does this moment weigh so heavily for you? I would agree it's not a great argument, but could it not be town tunneling on the worst - or even an accurate tw read?
3. She doesn't suggest reading her the same way she reads Not_Mafia, and I think you know that. Regardless, I'm confident Shoshin is town based on her pro-town play. Why don't others' Shoshin reads seem to affect yours?
Also, Gustavo, what do you think/what have you done with this?
@mod: replace me. Also, can I choose to proxy to Keyser until I am replaced?
I really like the flavor of this game, so I’m ashamed I have to do this. If this was my only game, I’d be able to keep up with it, but it’s not. I have another account that I am also playing games on, and i got much going on irl. finding it extremely difficult and as sacrificing too much of my time to keep up with this thread and balance it with other games i’m in rn, but i will make a parting statement. I feel like there’s way too much thread spamming going on, whoever is town should really consider posting less content because there’s way too much unnecessary content being posted in the thread, and it can’t all be from scum. Further, the content is distracting from catching scum.
DEAR WHOEVER REPLACES ME: ONE MISSION; LOOK INTO WHO DIDN’T RESPOND TO MY QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
UNVOTE: Irrelephant
PS(parting statement): KEYSER IS TOWN NO MATTER WHAT; my strongest TR has never EVER been wrong regardless of my own alignment. It has resulted in me replacing into a game on N1 and correctly neighbouring a town player AFTER A D1 scum lynch, and taking full advantage of it to eventually win a game for town in LYLO, so you can trust this read with your life. There’s a definite chance shoshin is scum, but regarding keyser DON’T FALL FOR THE SHIT OTHERS ARE FEEDING YOU RE: HIS READ. SOMEBODY IS ACTIVELY TRYING TO PLANT SEEDS OF DOUBT HIM, AND IT’S WORKING TOO!
/legacy post
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:18 am
by Gustavo
The first couple of posts were things I found strange. Yes. The thing about reading not mafia was my mistake. I thought she was suggesting that’s how you scum hunt. But speaking of that, that’s not how you read not mafia. I’ve don’t think I’ve ever seen not mafia do pro town things as town. I often find myself wondering why not mafia even joins games because of how little they contribute. But anyway.
As I said those are things I found suspicious, the fact she outright refused to answer a simple question. She lied saying she did that in the other game we played (I’ve just proven she lied) and I should somehow know better and then I think she accused me of misrepping her?
All that combined makes me very suspicious of her. Mainly the lying about our history, overreaction to simple questions, flailing, and false accusations of misrepping.
If she’s scum great. If she’s town I’m fine with it.
Didn’t even see that. I’ll look into it at some point but I’m not in any hurry.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:28 am
by Gustavo
In post 1005, Irrelephant11 wrote:Regardless, I'm confident Shoshin is town based on her pro-town play
Great. You think she’s played pro town. But scum can do that also. But let me hear you spin her lying about the game we played as protown. Why would town intentionally deceive people like that.
Note she didn’t even defend herself. She just unvoted.
I don’t see that as pro town. You do. Let’s hear you explain how it is.
I want the same from skittle also.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:37 am
by Irrelephant11
"lying about the game we played" - fair, I haven't read this yet. I'll get back to you
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:44 am
by Shoshin
If you actually read Tropical, you'll see that I voted without any reasons (twice on Rampage on D1 and then Invis on D2) and people even gave me shit about it. But seems like I gave more reasoning in that game I remembered when voting Mumble/Havo, so whatever.
Gustavo's playing absurdly aggressive - not sure what to make of it because his play as town didn't look anything like this but neither did his play as scum.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:48 am
by Shoshin
Whoever described Gustavo as too black-and-white is dead on though - that's pretty obvious from the way he's talking about NM. Gustavo's embarasssing himself right now with all his assumptions.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:48 am
by Gustavo
In post 828, stungun0404 wrote:DEAR WHOEVER REPLACES ME: ONE MISSION; LOOK INTO WHO DIDN’T RESPOND TO MY QUESTIONS, PLEASE!
Sorry predecessor. I’m having trouble deciphering your posts. I see where you ask questions and then seem to answer them yourself which basically makes them useless. I’m not sure going backwards at this point will be useful. I also didn’t see anything super important in them. I’ll try again when I get to a computer.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:50 am
by Shoshin
In post 1006, Gustavo wrote:If she’s scum great. If she’s town I’m fine with it.
This is such a bad way to think about the game. But I suppose there's actually players who think this way.
i just said it wasn't SvS because it didn't seem like a scum and a scum talking to each other.
And when poked, he denies reading JJD as town. This is an actual example of an internal inconsistency, as Invisibility behaves as if JJD is town yet doesn't want to actually take that stance. And if anyone thinks I'm avoiding questions, take a look at this: Invisibility clearly doesn't want to admit what his behavior so clearly demonstrates.
In post 158, Shoshin wrote:Invisibility, what's your read on JJD? If the conversation wasn't SvS, what was it? SvT? If so, why aren't you townreading JJD? And why are you scumreading me?
feel kind of weird about him but that situation brings him to a townlean. it was either SvT or TvT but, given the people he spoke with, it was probably SvT
He feels "weird" about JJD... and the Shoshin-JJD interaction is either "SvT or TvT" but he's voting me?
From the way he's playing, he's clearly implied that Invisibility is town in a way that suggests he's pre-inclined to do so (either because Invisibility is his partner, or because he knows Invisibility is town). He read Garuga as scum, he read me as scum, and he jumped on the Rampage lynch when it was popular to do so. In other words, he's voting townies. And he's obscured his alignment by keeping his thoughts to himself, and when pushed to offer some thoughts, he's refused. He'd rather vote me to answer his questions than actually say who he thinks is scum, or vote whoever he thinks is scum. Also, note how he's still voting with support in HF - never making decisions without someone else pursuing the same things. It's time for him to offer some thoughts on the game that don't consist of pointless questions or voting popular wagons or voting without any semblance of a scumhunting mindset. Also, consider how terrible his vote on me is - voting because he doesn't want to offer his own thoughts about the game before I answer more of his questions, as if somehow I'm scum because I want to know his thoughts on the game uninfluenced by my answers).
There's no way a townie is so confident I'll flip scum that Gustavo bases an entire read on a major wagon (Invisibility) on a surface-level observation that I've scumread the guy, while ignoring Invisibility's actual behaviors. I'd lynch Gustavo on this basis alone.
I think we're looking at a Gustavo/Invisibility/Mumble team, with Gustavo most likely to flip scum.
In post 745, Shoshin wrote:Like, I've got doubts about my scum reads - enough doubt that I'd never base a read on a major wagon on a weak association with a scum read. And someone as "experienced" as Gustavo should know better. If I'm too biased about this, it'd be nice to have my townreads weigh in.
Havo's probably scum based on his response to BBT's claim as well as his overall lack of engagement with the game.
I tried to include context quotes if she explained in the post before or after
Looks like vote 1 she did the same as this game - joining RVS with a more serious-looking vote.
From there,
Yes reasons
No reasons
No reasons
Yes reasons
Yes reasons
No reasons
Yes reasons
Not seeing your point, honestly
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:54 am
by Gustavo
In post 1010, Shoshin wrote:If you actually read Tropical, you'll see that I voted without any reasons (twice on Rampage on D1 and then Invis on D2) and people even gave me shit about it. But seems like I gave more reasoning in that game I remembered when voting Mumble/Havo, so whatever.
Gustavo's playing absurdly aggressive - not sure what to make of it because his play as town didn't look anything like this but neither did his play as scum.
I didn’t really count your rvs vote cause well rvs.
The 2nd vote on rampage looked like you were confusing games.
The vote on invisibility it looked like that was you correcting yourself from the mixing of games.
But regardless. I don’t see where you outright refused to explain yourself when you asked like you did here.
I’m willing to straight up policy lynch you for that alone because no town should refuse to explain themselves when asked, but thankfully you’ve done other things that are suspicious so I’m comfortable tunneling you.
In post 1006, Gustavo wrote:If she’s scum great. If she’s town I’m fine with it.
This is such a bad way to think about the game. But I suppose there's actually players who think this way.
It isn’t when there are so many town players who intentionally play bad. Like if you are town there was zero reason to refuse to explain your vote in the manner you did. Town has to work together and if you are town you are refusing to do that.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:55 am
by Shoshin
Interesting note - putting aside my compromise vote on Invis at the end of D2, mostly to avoid getting lynched myself, my last two votes (Gustavo/Havo) were on scum. So close to figuring that game out
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:56 am
by Shoshin
In post 1015, Gustavo wrote:But regardless. I don’t see where you outright refused to explain yourself when you asked like you did here.
Why did you vote nauci immediately after math did with absolutely no reason for it and hardly any mention of him prior?
As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?
Because I want your reason.
Here was me saying I want your reason.
You haven’t provided one still.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:03 am
by Shoshin
In post 1016, Gustavo wrote:Town has to work together and if you are town you are refusing to do that.
Alright, if town has to work together, why aren't you working with me? You're the one who came out gun slinging without any attempt to understand what I'm saying or why I voted the way I did. Everything you've done from the moment you've entered this game has been needlessly aggressive towards me, and your questions aimed toward scumreading me, not towards sorting me.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:03 am
by Gustavo
I’m not going to argue this game. I’m done with you. You aren’t willing to cooperate clearly. It’s going to just piss me off and I need to stay chill because the mod I’m sure didn’t even want me to play.
