Mafiascum.net

Clemency you're clearly in the thread and reading, why haven't you tried to sort between me/bji/sash yet?

my energy fluctuates from thread to thread based on entertainment value
i am an enigma
also it's
[scum]sash/bji/you[town] on the ol' radar

Just looked at Garmr/bji since I thought that would be easiest and I'm at work. If they're a team they deserve to win. Ruling out bji.

I've read what I wanted and have no changes. IMO:

Lynch garmr today.

Lynch sash tomorrow. I'll be surprised if this doesn't end it. From a partners view, these two talked a little bit ABOUT each other, but they had almost no talk TO each other. From an individual view, I checked recent town games of sash. In those he's more active and makes cases. Here he's less active, did a lot of IIOA in the beginning/middle of D1, and only made some weak analysis toward the end of D1.

If that doesn't end it, lynch Irrelephant. On D1, both irrel and clem had natural interactions with garmr. On D2, clem's attitude toward garmr, his votes and unvotes, his excitement at seeing scum caught - that all looks natural and townie. OTOH, Irrel was way too defensive for garmr when I started pushing him; was casting shade toward me without directly challenging me; and had a horrible reaction to garm's slip (see 857 and following). I think it will turn out that it's sash and irrel was just really highly townreading garm, but between irrel and clem, clem's D2 play is much townier.

I'm ready to lynch if everyone else is.

Go for it. I will follow your game plan, with one minor exception: I prefer to lynch Clem over Irrelephant if Sash isn't scum. If you want to talk more about that we can before you lynch. I don't have really great reasons except that I personally don't read Irrelephant's play on D2 as defending Garmr, and I don't like losing to scum who rely on not posting content as a way to slip through, which is what Clem would be if scum. But I would of course heavily re-read and make more significant analysis if the choice actually does present itself.

I'm game.

In post 1004, bji wrote:I prefer to lynch Clem over Irrelephant if Sash isn't scum.

What I don't get is that at the beginning of the game, I was active and most of you guys were reading me as town. Then the game stalled, I posted way less because I was bored a bit. When Day 2 began, I couldn't immediately respond to all those pages. When I posted a brief summary of my thoughts, I got burned by bji I agree it made me look bad and I'm a bit angry about it. But my main point is: what did Clemency do better than I did? Stayed in style? I don't see much action in his ISO either, and 517 proves my point. He appears town a lot in a game like this one, but he could easily pass as scum as well.

So, why me over Clemency?

In post 1004, bji wrote:I will follow your game plan, with one minor exception: I prefer to lynch Clem over Irrelephant if Sash isn't scum. If you want to talk more about that we can before you lynch.

No, that's not a minor exception. Yes, I'd like to here details.

*hear

In post 1007, Sashaddin wrote:But my main point is: what did Clemency do better than I did?

Interacted naturally with Garmr.

I remember Garmr being very.... "engaged" with bji in the beginning. In my first newbie game, I learned that getting in the middle of an argument and taking a side is called a "chainsaw" move, and is seen as very scummy. I don't particularly like engaging this in-your-face type of player (nothing personal Garmr), so I guessed I stayed away from him naturally.

I won't speculate why he didn't interact with me. I might hurt my own feelings.

In post 8, Garmr wrote:

In post 7, Clemency wrote:i came here to have a good time and i am honestly feeling so attacked right now
they ask you how you are and you have to say you're fine but you're not fine

JOJO

Arc 5 is my fave arc I been waiting for so long to see it animated.

Clem was posturing as feeling under attack and instead of pressing the attack Garmr defused the pressure by starting to talk about anime or whatever that was. It was RVS though so maybe means nothing.

In post 118, Garmr wrote: I dislike how she calls this interaction a town vs town but proceeds to call clemecy's reaction null and over mutiple posts. As seen in posts 93 and post 95. If it's a town vs town you wouldn't be calling the slot null. She then never gives any reason to think why clemency slot may be town. I have a theory the reason she said it was town vs town was because

she wanted to avoid conflict with clemency because his the type of player that will drag you into the spot light.

I found this comment odd at the time but I let it slide because I thought maybe Garmr knew something about Clem that I didn't. At the time Clem did not seem anything like a player that would drag anyone into the spot light. This has proven true for the rest of the game as well.

It's a very odd opinion for Garmr to express. Doesn't sit right with me, like Garmr felt like he needed to say something about his scum partner and made this up completely. Just a feeling though, obviously Garmr could have just been making stuff up to make stuff up.

In post 144, Irrelephant11 wrote:

I had the same thoughts as Garmr re:Raya involving herself in the early argument (mindmeld this early is reason enough to lightly townread garmr)

. raya's early play seemed like an easy way to get townread, by playing peacemaker, and I think her explanation since then has been overly long because she's making it up as she goes
that's my whole read on both of them

This would be a pretty ballsy way to open the game, claiming to have the same thoughts as your scum partner. It's an early post too and very easy to spot in ISO.

As a general observation, the only part of this game that Clemency seemed the least bit involved in was when I pressured him early. His reaction was pretty over the top. Other players noticed this (Garmr noted it too, not sure what that means). While defending himself he called me or my motivations scummy, so why get so upset over someone you don't even perceive as scummy putting pressure on you early in the game?

Post 98 - 101 and beyond, Clem and Garmr have lots of interactions but really none of it is meaningful. Look at their ISOs together, you will see lots of talking back and forth but they never really talk about anything significant. They talk like they've already been talking to each other for a while (like in scum chat) and are comfortable just going casually back and forth ...

In post 215, Garmr wrote:

In post 212, Irrelephant11 wrote:

In post 209, Garmr wrote:

In post 208, Irrelephant11 wrote:

In post 207, Garmr wrote:I'll keep my thought on irrelphant to myself .

?

???

I'll admit this made me laugh, but why keep your thoughts about me to yourself?

Because I'm still deciding things and don't want it to affect your play to much.

I didn't like this at the time. I didn't see what you would laugh at there. Just because Garmr made three question marks and Irrelephant made one? Then Garmr's explanation is I'm still deciding things, Irrelephant accepts it and ... never returns to it later to ask "so have you decided anything yet". Something does feel off about this interaction.

In post 288, Irrelephant11 wrote:You’re both too angry
Either planned theater or genuine on both ends

This feels like a set-up against me. Irrelephant either wants Garmr to be town read (if I flip town) or me to be scum read (when Garmr flips scum). Doesn't really follow up on it though so could just be a passing thought?

In post 342, Clemency wrote:not gonna lie i'm with the 'phant on this one
VOTE: Reaper

In post 343, Garmr wrote:

In post 342, Clemency wrote:not gonna lie i'm with the 'phant on this one
VOTE: Reaper

l-1

In post 344, Clemency wrote:oh jesus nvm UNVOTE:
i'm not leaving my vote on l-1 right before sleeping

I called Garmr scummy previous to this because his fear of keeping the hammer on me (one of his top scum reads) seemed off. Now Clem is sort of backing Garmr's position by also acting like it's a big deal to leave someone on L-1.

In post 349, Clemency wrote:either way i want him to have to talk more

Clemency never before or since seemed to care about Reaper talking. This post and the few before it by Clem feel like trying to act like he really voted Reaper for a reason. Feels fake.

In post 356, Clemency wrote:welp i'm just gonna keep sheeping the confident players
i can't really refute #353
UNVOTE: Reaper
VOTE: Creature

Just a few posts before he had sheeped irrelephant to get on the Reaper wagon, supposedly got all freaked out because the vote was L-1 (which it turns out it wasn't even) and then unvoted and a little while later decided to sheep me onto Creature's wagon. Seems to have completely forgotten about Reaper.

Post 413 to 429 Garmr and Irrelephant are working at cross purposes. Garmr is setting up a hammer on Creature and Irrelephant is concluding Creature is town.

Post 505 I feel like Garmr is casting shade on Irrelephant.

In post 569, Garmr wrote: Also if I had reads like yours and with the cases you presented I would be personally voting creature over clemency but that's me.

I'm getting very tired of reading ISO. Let me just say that Clem doesn't say alot this game but something about his interactions with Garmr feel alot weirder to me than Irrelephant's interactions with Garmr.

In post 1010, Persivul wrote:

In post 1007, Sashaddin wrote:But my main point is: what did Clemency do better than I did?

Interacted naturally with Garmr.

You and I seem to have opposing viewpoints on this; I don't think Clem's interactions with Garmr were very natural, as I posted above.

What about Garmr getting so angry when I asked Sash what he thought of Garmr? That doesn't seem like the kind of thing that Garmr, as scum, would want to be seen as having done later after flipping scum.

OTOH, as a mark against Sash:

In post 70, Clemency wrote:sorry i'm just pissed off since this shit happens every game
i don't believe anything in rvs or near it is a scumtell ever

Sash had just played a game with Clemency and never even found Clem's statement here interesting or worthy of comment. Clem seems to have expressed the sentiment earlier that his last game was won by his town team and he liked the game. Here he says that he's pissed off because he gets pressured early "every game". Sash doesn't even bother to comment. I looked at the game that Clem and Sash played together (Mini Normal 2040) and Clem has no votes on him in any vote count up to his NK. So from Sash's perspective Clem's attitude must have seemed forced. But no reaction from Sash.

Also there's the thing I pointed out Day 1, where Sash noticed that Garmr dropped the L-1 really quickly and that this was contrary to what he thought would happen, but again, he doesn't explore it.

Sash has been playing like he doesn't really care who is scum. Which is why he is a top scumread.

OK so I know I'm all over the place here in my explanations, but all of the above is why my reads go:

Scum { Sashaddin, Clemency, Irrelephant } Town

In post 1013, bji wrote:Sash had just played a game with Clemency and never even found Clem's statement here interesting or worthy of comment. Clem seems to have expressed the sentiment earlier that his last game was won by his town team and he liked the game. Here he says that he's pissed off because he gets pressured early "every game". Sash doesn't even bother to comment. I looked at the game that Clem and Sash played together (Mini Normal 2040) and Clem has no votes on him in any vote count up to his NK. So from Sash's perspective Clem's attitude must have seemed forced. But no reaction from Sash.

I think you expect me to do what you would do yourself. I didn't give much attention to that "feel pressured early" comment, so I didn't go back to that previous game to read it like you did. You seem to like to put a lot of energy in this. I wish I had your time.

But hey, Clemency saying he's pressured when he's not gives ME scum points? That's...weird...

In post 1013, bji wrote:Sash has been playing like he doesn't really care who is scum. Which is why he is a top scumread.

I was reading you as scum all Day 1. Now, Day2, I don't as much, but I haven't found a lot of scum material in thread yet. Garmr's case looks settled, but I can't really find a number 2. Percivul and Irrelephant have claimed, Reaper has been copped, so this leaves... Clemency. But I can't find anything in his ISO to argue with, or about.

In post 1012, bji wrote:

In post 8, Garmr wrote:

In post 7, Clemency wrote:i came here to have a good time and i am honestly feeling so attacked right now
they ask you how you are and you have to say you're fine but you're not fine

JOJO

Arc 5 is my fave arc I been waiting for so long to see it animated.

Clem was posturing as feeling under attack and instead of pressing the attack Garmr defused the pressure by starting to talk about anime or whatever that was. It was RVS though so maybe means nothing.

those are both quotes from memes and my pfp is from arc 5 of jojo's

just felt like clarifying

i have to admit i don't see why you're picking sash over me either

In post 1018, Clemency wrote:i have to admit i don't see why you're picking sash over me either

Why, what's the case against you?

In post 1018, Clemency wrote:i have to admit i don't see why you're picking sash over me either

Ah, my impressions on bji on Day1 were good, and he's trying to mislynch me now since I look easy this game. He's seen how I picked right in lylo last game and don't want me so late in this one...
And, thanks Clem!

In post 1019, Persivul wrote:

In post 1018, Clemency wrote:i have to admit i don't see why you're picking sash over me either

Why, what's the case against you?

...good point

My position on clem is based partly on meta. In his last scum game, he made 7 posts, then dropped out. However, I've looked at all of his games now, and he does have an older scum game in which he sounds pretty much like he does here. Not that I'm saying he sounds scummy. He sounds like this in his town games, too. Unfortunately another player on site who's just conversational and so difficult to read.

Anyway, finding the older game puts clem pretty null for me.

In post 854, Garmr wrote:Btw Just going to claim I'm a motion detector I motion detected Ele there was no movement which is why ele is low on my list to lynch.

Garmr's feeling pressure. He fakes a detection on irrel. Assuming garmr's scum, why does he choose irrel?

In post 1023, Persivul wrote:

In post 854, Garmr wrote:Btw Just going to claim I'm a motion detector I motion detected Ele there was no movement which is why ele is low on my list to lynch.

Garmr's feeling pressure. He fakes a detection on irrel. Assuming garmr's scum, why does he choose irrel?

Given what appears to be true that he is scum, I can see it as buddying. He's scum and he cleared irrel. > we look at irrel.
Or he was attempting to clear irrel thru the fake claim.