Mafiascum.net

Some thoughts:

Scum know what column of game we're in. Scum shouldn't want to fake-claim a role that they know is in the game because of exactly this situation: they get counter-claimed and then one for one'd. With that in mind, TFN with no townies dead at night is a very bad fakeclaim. Scum knows which which column we're in. If we're in Column A or Column C, then there's only a one-in-three chance that you can make that claim without someone being able to counterclaim you. In Column A, the Tracker and the Jailkeeper in A2 can both be in the same game as the TFN. The Jailkeeper and the VT in B2 can also both be in the same game as a TFN. Otherwise, the town has at least one PR that can counterclaim you. If you're in Column B, it's actually impossible to avoid a counterclaim—either there's a Doctor (who can't be in the same game as a TFN) or there's a TFN (who can counter).

As dumb as the TFN fakeclaim is, it still makes sense in comparison to a Doctor fake'd counterclaim. The is that you trade in some scum 1-for-1. This is just really weird no matter who's scum here. (Beyond that, when no people have died, C1 is the only world in which scum can get away with a Doctor fakeclaim without eventually getting 1-for-1'd.)

I'm still leaning on Plus being scum. If shelly is scum, she's literally gone and thrown the game for her scum-mate. Creating this 1-for-1-at-worst scenario is pro-town, and so I choose to believe that shelly being town is most likely. Beyond that, we can't forget that Plus was fishing for PRs when it looked pretty certain he was going down. Shelly did too for some reason?? I'm not sure how to feel about it, but she only did it once while Plus' efforts were sustained. And I'm kind of done joking around here, I'm going to drop my vote of Plus before I go to bed tonight, this mess is getting ridiculous.

VOTE: PlusJOYED

Sirius I can't read you properly at all. My clowndar is reading 100% on you, and that's most of what I've got. I'd say it's like you contribute your scumreads by dartboard, but it's worse—you take votes that seems almost universally attempts at starting bandwagons. Everyone votes shelly early? Vote shelly. People start switching to Plus and you switch to Plus. Now things are heating up between which one to kill, and you spontaneously switch to the member which is neither of them who is considered sus by the most people. I agree that Noraa is fishy as fuck, but your play is frustrating.

We've got a scum kill, if not today then tomorrow. Don't go running off into the bushes, people.

In post 999, Sirius9121 wrote:

In post 553, shellyc wrote:Thank you PlusJoy for outing yourself. I'm doctor.

1. you never crumbed your role
2. you claimed at the worst time
3. doctor is impossible to be with TFN

im actually neutral on this one
shelly, joyed, try to convince me =-=

trying to pocket shelly and plus eh?

Listen now. Look at my aforementioned wall. Look at the survivalist mindset. They clearly want to survive; which is furthering the scum wincon

Look at how they sit on the fence, look at how they aren't even trying to solve. Look at how they AtE'd Noraa, look at how they were image consious.

If they claimed anything else I would still lim them. But most importantly, they aren't the TFN because I AM YOUR DOCTOR.

Imagine a world with town!plus and scum!shelly. Scum!me just got a TR from 72offsuit and was at what, E-3. PlusJoy's claim was wack as heck and they would probs still get elimed. Why not just get plusjoy d1 and leaving both scum up into d2?

PlusJoy has played quite well, manipulating you all with AtE at E-0. Look at how they fish for PRs. Look at how they try to fish for the tracker.

I had no need to claim as scum. I claimed to get rid of plusjoy. Because they fakeclaimed. Lim them today and we get a free red. Lim me today and watch me flip Either way I've proven them as scum.

Im really lost @mod can I please get a vote count?

In post 1000, Mundivore wrote:Some thoughts:

Scum know what column of game we're in. Scum shouldn't want to fake-claim a role that they know is in the game because of exactly this situation: they get counter-claimed and then one for one'd. With that in mind, TFN with no townies dead at night is a very bad fakeclaim. Scum knows which which column we're in. If we're in Column A or Column C, then there's only a one-in-three chance that you can make that claim without someone being able to counterclaim you. In Column A, the Tracker and the Jailkeeper in A2 can both be in the same game as the TFN. The Jailkeeper and the VT in B2 can also both be in the same game as a TFN. Otherwise, the town has at least one PR that can counterclaim you. If you're in Column B, it's actually impossible to avoid a counterclaim—either there's a Doctor (who can't be in the same game as a TFN) or there's a TFN (who can counter).

As dumb as the TFN fakeclaim is, it still makes

no

sense in comparison to a Doctor fake'd counterclaim. The

best realistic case

is that you trade in some scum 1-for-1. This is just really weird no matter who's scum here. (Beyond that, when no people have died, C1 is the only world in which scum can get away with a Doctor fakeclaim without eventually getting 1-for-1'd.)

I'm still leaning on Plus being scum. If shelly is scum, she's literally gone and thrown the game for her scum-mate. Creating this 1-for-1-at-worst scenario is pro-town, and so I choose to believe that shelly being town is most likely. Beyond that, we can't forget that Plus was fishing for PRs when it looked pretty certain he was going down. Shelly did too for some reason?? I'm not sure how to feel about it, but she only did it once while Plus' efforts were sustained. And I'm kind of done joking around here, I'm going to drop my vote of Plus before I go to bed tonight, this mess is getting ridiculous.

VOTE: PlusJOYED

Sirius I can't read you properly at all. My clowndar is reading 100% on you, and that's most of what I've got. I'd say it's like you contribute your scumreads by dartboard, but it's worse—you take votes that seems almost universally attempts at starting bandwagons. Everyone votes shelly early? Vote shelly. People start switching to Plus and you switch to Plus. Now things are heating up between which one to kill, and you spontaneously switch to the member which is neither of them who is considered sus by the most people. I agree that Noraa is fishy as fuck, but your play is frustrating.

We've got a scum kill, if not today then tomorrow.

Bird in the hand.

Don't go running off into the bushes, people.

fair enough. If I was an outsider that's about what I would do too

Oh, btw I should mention that my vote puts Plus at... E-2, right? That seems right. Just take care not to accidentally hammer, or to accidentally 'hammer' again.

Yeah that's probably E-2 {me, you, 72offsuit}

In post 1005, Mundivore wrote:Oh, btw I should mention that my vote puts Plus at... E-2, right? That seems right. Just take care not to accidentally hammer, or to accidentally 'hammer' again.

That is correct and if anyone "accidentally hammers" they are scum imo. people have mentioned not doing this so many times that NO ONE can say its an accident.

In post 1006, shellyc wrote:Yeah that's probably E-2 {me, you, 72offsuit}

I thought 72o unvoted?

In post 1007, Noraa wrote:anyone "accidentally hammers" they are scum imo. people have mentioned not doing this so many times that NO ONE can say its an accident.

why is a hammer scum when plusjoy flips red

VOTECOUNT PLEASE im puzzled now

In post 1009, shellyc wrote:

In post 1007, Noraa wrote:anyone "accidentally hammers" they are scum imo. people have mentioned not doing this so many times that NO ONE can say its an accident.

why is a hammer scum when plusjoy flips red

doesn't matter if he's scum or not. "accidentally hammering" is a scumtell imo

In post 1011, Noraa wrote:doesn't matter if he's scum or not. "accidentally hammering" is a scumtell imo

just because everyone tells you to not do it doesn't mean it's the protown thing to do

this is flawed logic

*doesn't mean it can't be the protown thing to do

In post 1012, shellyc wrote:

In post 1011, Noraa wrote:doesn't matter if he's scum or not. "accidentally hammering" is a scumtell imo

just because everyone tells you to not do it doesn't mean it's the protown thing to do

this is flawed logic

hm I still think "accidentally hammering" is a scummy thing to do that can easily not benefit town

In post 1012, shellyc wrote:

In post 1011, Noraa wrote:doesn't matter if he's scum or not. "accidentally hammering" is a scumtell imo

just because everyone tells you to not do it doesn't mean it's the protown thing to do

this is flawed logic

If the town agrees on something and go against the majoritys wishes it's not pro town

im just ignoring plusjoy's posts at this point

In post 1002, shellyc wrote:Listen now. Look at my aforementioned wall. Look at the survivalist mindset. They clearly want to survive; which is furthering the scum wincon

Look at how they sit on the fence, look at how they aren't even trying to solve. Look at how they AtE'd Noraa, look at how they were image consious.

If they claimed anything else I would still lim them. But most importantly, they aren't the TFN because I AM YOUR DOCTOR.

Imagine a world with town!plus and scum!shelly. Scum!me just got a TR from 72offsuit and was at what, E-3. PlusJoy's claim was wack as heck and they would probs still get elimed. Why not just get plusjoy d1 and leaving both scum up into d2?

PlusJoy has played quite well, manipulating you all with AtE at E-0. Look at how they fish for PRs. Look at how they try to fish for the tracker.

I had no need to claim as scum. I claimed to get rid of plusjoy. Because they fakeclaimed. Lim them today and we get a free red. Lim me today and watch me flip

Town Doctor.

Either way I've proven them as scum.

The stats guy in me has to disagree with you shelly, you haven't proven anything, you've only provided evidence for your point of view.

In post 1017, Frogsterking wrote:you haven't proven anything, you've only provided evidence for your point of view.

hi stats guy

Yeah so what do you expect from me then?

Tbh it seems it doesn't really matter what either of u say at this point. town seems to think killing one pr and one scum(if their guess on this is right) is a good choice and totally worth it. I suggested killing off sirius who doesn't give us any useful opinions and wait until one of you can prove you are real that way we risk killing the real pr but that idea wasn't liked soooo that's that

I passed out from my hangover earlier.

In post 1000, Mundivore wrote:Some thoughts:

Scum know what column of game we're in. Scum shouldn't want to fake-claim a role that they know is in the game because of exactly this situation: they get counter-claimed and then one for one'd. With that in mind, TFN with no townies dead at night is a very bad fakeclaim. Scum knows which which column we're in. If we're in Column A or Column C, then there's only a one-in-three chance that you can make that claim without someone being able to counterclaim you. In Column A, the Tracker and the Jailkeeper in A2 can both be in the same game as the TFN. The Jailkeeper and the VT in B2 can also both be in the same game as a TFN. Otherwise, the town has at least one PR that can counterclaim you. If you're in Column B, it's actually impossible to avoid a counterclaim—either there's a Doctor (who can't be in the same game as a TFN) or there's a TFN (who can counter).

As dumb as the TFN fakeclaim is, it still makes

no

sense in comparison to a Doctor fake'd counterclaim. The

best realistic case

is that you trade in some scum 1-for-1. This is just really weird no matter who's scum here. (Beyond that, when no people have died, C1 is the only world in which scum can get away with a Doctor fakeclaim without eventually getting 1-for-1'd.)

I'm still leaning on Plus being scum. If shelly is scum, she's literally gone and thrown the game for her scum-mate. Creating this 1-for-1-at-worst scenario is pro-town, and so I choose to believe that shelly being town is most likely. Beyond that, we can't forget that Plus was fishing for PRs when it looked pretty certain he was going down. Shelly did too for some reason?? I'm not sure how to feel about it, but she only did it once while Plus' efforts were sustained. And I'm kind of done joking around here, I'm going to drop my vote of Plus before I go to bed tonight, this mess is getting ridiculous.

VOTE: PlusJOYED

Sirius I can't read you properly at all. My clowndar is reading 100% on you, and that's most of what I've got. I'd say it's like you contribute your scumreads by dartboard, but it's worse—you take votes that seems almost universally attempts at starting bandwagons. Everyone votes shelly early? Vote shelly. People start switching to Plus and you switch to Plus. Now things are heating up between which one to kill, and you spontaneously switch to the member which is neither of them who is considered sus by the most people. I agree that Noraa is fishy as fuck, but your play is frustrating.

We've got a scum kill, if not today then tomorrow.

Bird in the hand.

Don't go running off into the bushes, people.

I think this is very solid reasoning. I've seen scum successfully AtE in situations like plus did there though the mechanics of the site I played on were different.

I think plus's comments at e-0 definitely imply some kind of intent, as though she was aware the game was not over, regardless of AI. Otherwise I don't believe it makes sense for her to have continued posting in the way that she had. She did not emotionally react to the hammer in my opinion, though I'll need to reread it. It seems like town!plus in that situation might have pointed out that she was not dead. I think that plus attempting to theater in that situation is not entirely AI either even if we could prove it was theater. I would be hammering plus because it makes more sense not because she theatered in that situation.

It does seem more likely that plus would be attempting to theater us than shelly would be making this truly bizarre play as scum. I did come up with a few motivations for shelly's play as scum I'll post here after I reread.

In post 1019, Noraa wrote:Tbh it seems it doesn't really matter what either of u say at this point. town seems to think killing one pr and one scum(if their guess on this is right) is a good choice and totally worth it. I suggested killing off sirius who doesn't give us any useful opinions and wait until one of you can prove you are real that way we risk killing the real pr but that idea wasn't liked soooo that's that

After reading his most recent batch of posts I definitely saw the benefits of your point of view, Nora.

I've said basically all I've had to day about the me/shelly situation
at this point. There are 2 posts that I'd like to bring attention to that were really scummy but I think flew under most peoples radar in the heat of the moment that I think are worth looking at again.

First:

In post 542, 72offsuit wrote:UNVOTE: PlusJOYED

I dont buy the claim.

1. Total scumbucket, so i think its extremely likely just scum role fishing and trying to avert their lynch.

2. No PR is that ready to out themselves at the drop if a hat, especially not when:
A) a player requested for no hammers
B) we have replacements incoming
C) request for a claim came from their scumread
D) request came from a player who was already on their wagon And unable to actually hammer

Unvoting until replacements in.

This and the post after, despite my imperfect play here (I was feeling really pressured as nearly every player had expressed a SR on me), from a logical perspective, eliming me here before shelly counter claimed makes 0 fucking sense considering TFN is a provable role. They unvoted, but didn't even flinch or reconsider their SR on me at all, and a tunnel like that (an incorrect one at that) does not befit a townie SE reaction. This is very odd to me and pretty scummy.

Secondly ...

In post 736, Frogsterking wrote:I'm also not interested in hearing from the replacement slot for this same reason. I'll townread anyone who helps me quickhammer PLUS.

This, for obvious reasons, is a super scummy mindset. Townpasses are not just thrown out to people who do what you want, and limiting discussion here sounds like a bad idea. It's either a townie misplay (possible) or a big scumslip (also possible).

In post 1020, Frogsterking wrote:I think plus's comments at e-0 definitely imply some kind of intent, as though she was aware the game was not over, regardless of AI. Otherwise I don't believe it makes sense for her to have continued posting in the way that she had. She did not emotionally react to the hammer in my opinion, though I'll need to reread it. It seems like town!plus in that situation might have pointed out that she was not dead. I think that plus attempting to theater in that situation is not entirely AI either even if we could prove it was theater. I would be hammering plus because it makes more sense not because she theatered in that situation.

this is just fence-sitting: "imply intent" "did not emotionally react" but "not entirely AI"

I also think I'll be referring to sirius as Growlithe.