revO emaG - TENET

[Deacon Blues]

Imagine if this is TvT

is that what you think?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

I’m not saying it doesn’t. But I know I’m opening Pandora’s box with this.

Hi ffery!

Now I understand part of the bell readflip are the crumbs from the doctor that never happened. Other than the aforementioned ate and sowing discord is there something else I’m missing?

Because I really had a lot of concern for the timing of cabds readflip on me and then going “well sucks it came up now when we can’t talk about it” when he was the one who brought it up lol

I feel like I've been trying to maintain the structural integrity of a very muddy dike regarding Cabd's read of you, ever since mid-ish Day 2. And sometimes my certainty erodes.

I can't maintain my read of you and that sucks. :/

I'm not looking forward to it if I survive to be in the same thread with you.

[Deacon Blues]

bork sure, but i'm gonna sign off shortly. what do you want to talk abt ?

prevailing reason as of 7300 you thought he was scum i guess would be nice springboard

-b

[Deacon Blues]

eh actually very shortly but if you wanna pick it up tomorrow i'm happy to do that

yeah

-b

[Deacon Blues]

eh actually very shortly but if you wanna pick it up tomorrow i'm happy to do that

yeah

-b

[Deacon Blues]

ffery i'm like reasonably confident you have said to me recently that cabd would relish the challenge to try to snow you. i have no idea how he relates to imperium etc but this is my impression of him

bork sure, but i'm gonna sign off shortly. what do you want to talk abt ?

Once upon a time I was easy to snow.

This is not once upon a time.

Cabd is going to fool me eventually. I think I know the dimensions of that room, even if the furnishings and decor will suggest otherwise. And I hope I surprise him when the moment comes.

I really can't talk more about this without making it infinitely easier for cabd to snow me in this shrodinger's box of a future game.

[Deacon Blues]

i was the one who was most strongly scumreading spiffeh and i got into it with him some dozens of pages back or whatever it was, i've made a few posts about it if you'd like me to quote. i'm not sure skitter's arguments were as strong aside from him just not being towny here

what as of 6600 did you not like about his iso in the other thread?

because i think that's how we got into this current gamestate of you v him

-b

[Deacon Blues]

later is fine if you want to get to bed; i want to interact w/ some others

-b

[Deacon Blues]

I feel like I've been trying to maintain the structural integrity of a very muddy dike regarding Cabd's read of you, ever since mid-ish Day 2. And sometimes my certainty erodes.

I can't maintain my read of you and that sucks. :/

I'm not looking forward to it if I survive to be in the same thread with you.

Well I’ve been the pretty consistent wagon today. I think this is a do or die time to get me sorted before we get there? I think we both know I’m making it to tomorrow even if I flip.

I saw this and thought I'd posted in the wrong thread!

Some of your posts tonight looked like you were trying to fish out PR claims and that bothers the everloving fuck out of me.

You do that kind of shit, and my muddy dike structural support washes out to sea.

[Deacon Blues]

you're currently making the argument that he wouldn't even try

wouldn't actively seek it out if he had other avenues i guess is my argument; if he got put in that position then sure, game on

-b

[Deacon Blues]

ffery i'm p sure you told me this like recently ... ?
and that he'd want to snow you?
putting aside the issue of whehter or not *he can*, you're currently making the argument that he wouldn't even try, but i'm under the impression from you + other people in said cohor that he would definitely enjoy the challenge and would wnat to make the attempt

ok really bouncing now, g'night

Oh he would absolutely try if he were scum and he might very well succeed.

This game is now how scum-Cabd would go about that.

I'm not saying that I don't have occasional paranoid flashes. They happen and I have to deal with them and weigh up whether they make sense or not. Rational me, so far, dismisses the paranoid flashes with extreme prejudice.

[Deacon Blues]

now should be not

[Deacon Blues]

in particular i felt the reads he threw out were just implausible and didn't reflect critical thinking

which?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

(you can link me to posts if you want that's fine)

-b

[Deacon Blues]

I suppose curiosity and cats apply here. But I was wondering because that made me wonder why not swap a weak modifier role that could actually get stuff done than superb? Plus it’s massclaim anyways? So why does it matter I want more elaboration?

small w weak

that's +town from noddy i think

-b

[Deacon Blues]

but i still dont see how someone looks at the game and thinks all those people can be town and the scumteam is in that group

because you don't agree w/ them or because they don't make sense together or what

-b

[Deacon Blues]

About the weak thing?

I suppose curiosity and cats apply here. But I was wondering because that made me wonder why not swap a weak modifier role that could actually get stuff done than superb? Plus it’s massclaim anyways? So why does it matter I want more elaboration?

Do you understand why that query caused extreme concern?

[Deacon Blues]

sorry for all the hydra slips i literally didn't notice till just now

-b

[Deacon Blues]

7359 looks confbiasy to me at first glance peta

-b

[Deacon Blues]

7354 how would spiffeh have known a50 was a tracker when he made the post you quoted?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

the AtE here looked insanely fucking premature

so?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

is it confbiasy if i'm just literally referencing everything he said on shelly? it's fine to disagree if you like and say you don't think it's a bad trajectory but i'm just pointing things out and making a conclusion

i just called it confbiasy because you're using his entire body of work as data points to fit a conclusion; i don't think you need to get hung up on the semantics i used there

-b

[Deacon Blues]

7354 how would spiffeh have known a50 was a tracker when he made the post you quoted?

-b

he wouldn't, but he's still on that read days later w/ no readjustment, he was talking about the thread needing to refocus but then has reads that feel, well,i wouldn't say consensus-y, but not very conflicting?

just noting that i see this and am thinking it over but like, i can totally see somebody scumreading a50 this game over the entire game i guess.

anyway i need a break and am gonna take off for the night.

we got somewhere...just not sure where yet. i feel considerably more engaged than i've been at any earlier point and that's something i guess.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

Literal wine club. 2017 Old Vine Zin.

[Deacon Blues]

Literal wine club. 2017 Old Vine Zin.

which of those 3 do you want btw

We're voting skitter and a50

[Deacon Blues]

really, I feel like a50 is under the radar?

That's why I threw a vote down

[Deacon Blues]

@Annie, @brian

Please purple room vote Dunn.

<3

[Deacon Blues]

Skitter your purple room stuff and talking about Dandelion Wine's role stuff both look really scummy

dunn, i have run out of fucks to give, so i don't really care.
either there's scum in dandelion/deacon, or the pair is functionally acting like the 7th and 8th members of the scumteam given how the game has unfolded to this point. this is unpopular take, but true.
if there's scum it's dandelion because the role is literally a scum role

it's quite possibly both of them

You are straining my creduilty

-b

[Deacon Blues]

either there's scum in dandelion/deacon, or the pair is functionally acting like the 7th and 8th members of the scumteam given how the game has unfolded to this point.

This shit is really getting old to hear. You're acting like im just shitting the game up or just blatantly not trying or something and thats kinda fucking crap.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

Tbf i actually dont have much of an issue with *your* play in particular. The confluence of how your slot has interacted with cabd's is the problem

And i also feel like i've tried shaking you (collectively) out of it a whole bunch but here we are so that clearly hasnt worked

I mean, yeah, ok: we disagree on a read. I get it.
I townread the slot. It's not unshakable and I've given my reasons.
But like the only engagement you have on it is "it's literally a scum role"
and yeah, it might be?
But like that's where that argument begins and ends. I either have to agree w/ that setup spec or not, and I don't have anywhere to go to vet the likelihood of what you're saying.
And if I'm wrong, whatever, I've been shit in games before and I'll be shit in games again. That's mafia.
And you're acting like using anything discussed in the hood as a basis for my read is like a huge fucking taboo.
But it's hard for me to get to "I don't agree about your setup spec" => "I'm obviously snowed and basically honorary scum". That's both hard to swallow and a little bit easy to get tilted by, which I'm trying not to do.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

so yeah i changed my mind you can lobby for support from someone else

Lol, who's lobbying? LLD might be.

Do what you want; be paranoid; shout into the void about it if you think it will be helpful; I just want empathize with the reason behind it so I can read you better and maybe be convinced by other strong players' arguments, which I believe you to be.

But throwing random shade at both us and Dandelion as a possible team when that's basically fucking impossible is just not really helpful and I struggle to think why you'd want to do that

-b

[Deacon Blues]

i don't think the way things have been going and the kills reflect that. his scumteam guess also included every non-skitter investigative. but in general i feel as though he's been surface level with his takes, like that midwaybear driveby he just did. (midwaybear is maybe in the iffy range in that i think he could totally post like he's been doing today as scum, but on tone still town i think). i don't like the stickiness of his a50 read, i feel that's a lazy lurker elim scum would want to push, and some of his reasoning on that dishonest. i had words about it earlier.

ok. i think the point about all the investigatives being a team together being pretty obviously silly is a pretty good point.

let me mull this over a bit more but i like this take at first glance

-b

aren't trying to sort just push eliminations on easy targets

the thing is, like,

nobody's

breaking through the mist here; we've got a loose status quo, we've got some lurkfucks, fluffing, and when i challenge people to find the "true legit deepwolfs" that they claim are there or whatever i don't feel like i'm getting a whole lot of stuff i can empathize with so i have to switch my own worldview to find ports in the storm i can rely on and man is that fucking hard this game

-b

i gotta say just fucking ignoring forward thread has been really helpful, just to hone conversation and i think we should keep doing that for the moment at least.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

really, I feel like a50 is under the radar?

That's why I threw a vote down

Would you have been trying to be ON the radar if you were a Tracker??

is vs was.

[Deacon Blues]

Skitter your purple room stuff and talking about Dandelion Wine's role stuff both look really scummy

dunn, i have run out of fucks to give, so i don't really care.
either there's scum in dandelion/deacon, or the pair is functionally acting like the 7th and 8th members of the scumteam given how the game has unfolded to this point. this is unpopular take, but true.
if there's scum it's dandelion because the role is literally a scum role

it's quite possibly both of them

we're scum if we vote you and scum if we don't?

[Deacon Blues]

and the first time one of them flips town, I'll vote myself and we can kill me.

this is functionally meaningless wrt you having any stake in this bet, because you're going to ultimately back out of this as either alignment. which makes this stupidly performative and manipulative because it looks decent and real at first glance, but if anybody thinks abt this for more than two seconds it should be apparent that she won't (and can't) actually follow up on this, even if she's town

also aside, i just wanna call out that i think the narrative that you and cabd have pushed that gamma died protecting you is unlikely bordering on ridiculous in the gamestate at eod yesterday (long sidebar showing that i'm p damn accurate making these sorts of assessments that i'm sure nobody cares abt reading, blah blah blah)

pedit peta it literally loses the game if she's town and wrong. hence stupidly performative and manipulative ...

I agree that such an agreement is basically meaningless and probably won't be adhered to, but people do it all the damn time. It annoys me, but this is hardly a new idea or a scummy one.

LLD has said she thinks gamma might have died protecting her but also actively stated she doesn't really expect anyone to agree or care about this, and i think deacon was the one who suggested he might have saved deacon or us?

-ceph

Not what I said or meant. If he saved either of our slots he went directly against what we suggested, by intent or by not reading.

[Deacon Blues]

I keep forgetting about this part of the game mechanic. If the game lasts long enough then Gamma can say who he protected on N2.

[Deacon Blues]

@Bell

@deacon, okay.

does this mean you'll talk with me about how you came by your skitter read or no?

[Deacon Blues]

Yesterday was a bad day all around for me. I've had you settled in my mind as town for a long while. Your flip on us gave bork a case of ffery-hives. That's not where my head is currently at, but I couldn't figure out why you're scumreading us and dandelion both now.

[Deacon Blues]

Given your reads changes on us, can you lay out where your head is at now wrt to scumreads?

[Deacon Blues]

I could give you the whole history from beginning to end if you’d like.

yes, I'd like!

[Deacon Blues]

Yesterday was a bad day all around for me. I've had you settled in my mind as town for a long while. Your flip on us gave bork a case of ffery-hives. That's not where my head is currently at, but I couldn't figure out why you're scumreading us and dandelion both now.

i didn't full-on switch to scumreading you (i'd be voting you if i were), i

entertained the possibility

because it feels like something is deeply wrong and at some point i start to wonder whether someone is blinkered or actively looking to mislead me, and i'm beginning to feel issues with the way some things have been asserted. i look at other people and i start to worry more. i grew uncomfortable with the idea of a skitter vote. i might be able to rant on it later

I agree something feels deeply wrong. Day 2 was all about compromises, in some ways, at least for us, and that's not how I want this day to play out.

[Deacon Blues]

It's not a reasonable comparison. I'm not terribly happy about skitter laying Day 2 in its entirety at our feet, and a few other players accepting that. I mean, I guess town or scum you don't want to take responsibility for your votes in this mess.

[Deacon Blues]

so really i don't blame LLD for calling me scum with skitter because if you look outside LLD/DB/DW, i'm one of the only people who makes much sense as her teammate

I'm trying to parse this. Does this mean you can see her as scum with one or more of LLD, Dandelion or us, or that you can't see her as scum with anyone else either?

[Deacon Blues]

Bottom line, I'm not voting Dandelion or LLD today.

Spiffeh's play this game prior to turnstiling looked like his town play in recent games, especially day 1. Today kinda feels like a stripped down, snarkier version of his early play in the other thread. If he's town I feel bad about dragging him over here. I've scanned the pooky vs FL scum game and didn't come away with much in the way of points of parallel. I'm meh about whether he's the kind of player where meta is actually that useful, though. Maybe someone could convince me he's scum with a great argument.

I go back and forth on FB but his interactions with skitter feel to me like he's town.

I'm basically trusting bork (and you since you agree with bork) on mwb.

My unvotes are on A50 and Skitter.

[Deacon Blues]

Bottom line, I'm not voting Dandelion or LLD today.

Spiffeh's play this game prior to turnstiling looked like his town play in recent games, especially day 1. Today kinda feels like a stripped down, snarkier version of his early play in the other thread. If he's town I feel bad about dragging him over here. I've scanned the pooky vs FL scum game and didn't come away with much in the way of points of parallel. I'm meh about whether he's the kind of player where meta is actually that useful, though. Maybe someone could convince me he's scum with a great argument.

I go back and forth on FB but his interactions with skitter feel to me like he's town.

I'm basically trusting bork (and you since you agree with bork) on mwb.

My unvotes are on A50 and Skitter.

that doesn't answer me in any satisfactory way whatsoever

I don't have an answer to your concern. I'm trying to work through this game the way I almost always do. townread/poe.

I don't know who skitter is scum with if she's scum. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

If we were in the same timeline with Bell, that's who I'd probably be voting, unless somehow a lot more direct interaction changed my mind about him.

[Deacon Blues]

Did FB make another role claim and I missed it? He retracted his day 1 claim.

[Deacon Blues]

Did FB make another role claim and I missed it? He retracted his day 1 claim.

I have no idea. I just had him down as a Forwards Cop eversince

Fix your algorithm, then.

[Deacon Blues]

I don't have an answer to your concern. I'm trying to work through this game the way I almost always do. townread/poe.

I don't know who skitter is scum with if she's scum. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

If we were in the same timeline with Bell, that's who I'd probably be voting, unless somehow a lot more direct interaction changed my mind about him.

okay but i gave anti-alignment reads for skitter on 3 of the other 8 people who started in this thread, take me out, and do you see why i start to get concerned? i do not mind if you think the reasons for seeing people as unpaired is not

valid

but if i am looking at someone and having a hard time seeing potential partners i'm not going to want to vote them. you should recognize me having used this reasoning before.

I wish there were an appropriate punctuation mark to put behind "yeah" to this. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right and I'm not trying to get you to vote with me.

I think your stance on this makes internal sense, and maybe external sense as well.

and you are one of my townreads where I feel like I can actually get something useful in terms of improving my own reads by interacting with you.

that's where you stand with me. I didn't include you in the "not voting today" list because I'm talking to you about other players, but that's where you are.

[Deacon Blues]

maybe we had really different purposes in trying to engage here?

[Deacon Blues]

I don't have an answer to your concern. I'm trying to work through this game the way I almost always do. townread/poe.

I don't know who skitter is scum with if she's scum. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

If we were in the same timeline with Bell, that's who I'd probably be voting, unless somehow a lot more direct interaction changed my mind about him.

okay but i gave anti-alignment reads for skitter on 3 of the other 8 people who started in this thread, take me out, and do you see why i start to get concerned? i do not mind if you think the reasons for seeing people as unpaired is not

valid

but if i am looking at someone and having a hard time seeing potential partners i'm not going to want to vote them. you should recognize me having used this reasoning before.

I wish there were an appropriate punctuation mark to put behind "yeah" to this. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right and I'm not trying to get you to vote with me.

I think your stance on this makes internal sense, and maybe external sense as well.

and you are one of my townreads where I feel like I can actually get something useful in terms of improving my own reads by interacting with you.

that's where you stand with me. I didn't include you in the "not voting today" list because I'm talking to you about other players, but that's where you are.

Can I ask why you think that reasoning that amounts to essentially doing pre-flip associatives from a player who apparently gets "super paranoid and uncertain" in endgame/lategame makes any sense as a reasoning we should be nodding along with?

I think part of the core of all this is how and why his read of you differs from mine. Not THAT my read differs, but WHY it differs, if that makes sense.

[Deacon Blues]

I don't have an answer to your concern. I'm trying to work through this game the way I almost always do. townread/poe.

I don't know who skitter is scum with if she's scum. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

If we were in the same timeline with Bell, that's who I'd probably be voting, unless somehow a lot more direct interaction changed my mind about him.

okay but i gave anti-alignment reads for skitter on 3 of the other 8 people who started in this thread, take me out, and do you see why i start to get concerned? i do not mind if you think the reasons for seeing people as unpaired is not

valid

but if i am looking at someone and having a hard time seeing potential partners i'm not going to want to vote them. you should recognize me having used this reasoning before.

I wish there were an appropriate punctuation mark to put behind "yeah" to this. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right and I'm not trying to get you to vote with me.

I think your stance on this makes internal sense, and maybe external sense as well.

and you are one of my townreads where I feel like I can actually get something useful in terms of improving my own reads by interacting with you.

that's where you stand with me. I didn't include you in the "not voting today" list because I'm talking to you about other players, but that's where you are.

Can I ask why you think that reasoning that amounts to essentially doing pre-flip associatives from a player who apparently gets "super paranoid and uncertain" in endgame/lategame makes any sense as a reasoning we should be nodding along with?

I think part of the core of all this is how and why his read of you differs from mine. Not THAT my read differs, but WHY it differs, if that makes sense.

So bad but consistently applied by him as town, is what you are saying?

llike internal consistency?

yeah internal consistency, but getting harder and harder to follow because our world views are diverging.

You became an axis that this game is pivoting on for me. That axis doesn't exist in his view of the gamestate.

I'm not explaining this very well.

One of my problems with having you as an axis is my pooky read.

[Deacon Blues]

I don't have an answer to your concern. I'm trying to work through this game the way I almost always do. townread/poe.

I don't know who skitter is scum with if she's scum. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

If we were in the same timeline with Bell, that's who I'd probably be voting, unless somehow a lot more direct interaction changed my mind about him.

okay but i gave anti-alignment reads for skitter on 3 of the other 8 people who started in this thread, take me out, and do you see why i start to get concerned? i do not mind if you think the reasons for seeing people as unpaired is not

valid

but if i am looking at someone and having a hard time seeing potential partners i'm not going to want to vote them. you should recognize me having used this reasoning before.

I wish there were an appropriate punctuation mark to put behind "yeah" to this. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right and I'm not trying to get you to vote with me.

I think your stance on this makes internal sense, and maybe external sense as well.

and you are one of my townreads where I feel like I can actually get something useful in terms of improving my own reads by interacting with you.

that's where you stand with me. I didn't include you in the "not voting today" list because I'm talking to you about other players, but that's where you are.

Can I ask why you think that reasoning that amounts to essentially doing pre-flip associatives from a player who apparently gets "super paranoid and uncertain" in endgame/lategame makes any sense as a reasoning we should be nodding along with?

I think part of the core of all this is how and why his read of you differs from mine. Not THAT my read differs, but WHY it differs, if that makes sense.

So bad but consistently applied by him as town, is what you are saying?

llike internal consistency?

yeah internal consistency, but getting harder and harder to follow because our world views are diverging.

You became an axis that this game is pivoting on for me. That axis doesn't exist in his view of the gamestate.

I'm not explaining this very well.

One of my problems with having you as an axis is my pooky read.

okay so talk to me about Pooky then. You think they're scum?

I think it looks like I'm the only one who thinks they are town. I'm willing to admit I might be wrong, but I feel reaaaallllllly strongly about that townread. Same way I'm willing to risk my life about skitter scum, you know?

I still hate everything about how day 1 went down after pooky showed up especially given how he'd been playing in the forwards thread prior. It was so frustrating even getting posts through during that hour and there's some residual pissed-offness about it.

There's the question of whether scum-pooky would even make a night kill after that. On the one hand if he were implicated in the kill at least at the time it seems like it would have been considered an acceptable loss if he's scum, but if there were a roleblocker on this side he would have been an obvious block choice in my simplistic world.

He looked fatalistic to me prior to your reaction test, and he bounced back with a lot of pep and what I interpret as snark after the reaction test.

None of that feels 100% scum, but I'm still suspicious of him, anyway. There's what I feel about the game and players as informed by setup knowledge/spec and there's what I feel about individual players without the spec. My pooky read is in the latter bucket along with mwb and firebringer (3 reads clear of setup spec, not 3 scumreads).

[Deacon Blues]

we can only do that if one would move over. would skitter even agree knowing she would get yeeted doing so? i don't think so

She'd be in the same thread with her arch scumread(s) and in the timestream where if she IS a town watcher, she could use the ability tonight if she gets more traction there than she has here.

[Deacon Blues]

I don't know who skitter is scum with if she's scum. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

no offense but you're ridiculously tunneled

You're replying to the waffling one.

[Deacon Blues]

Read the freaking post you quoted.

[Deacon Blues]

I don't know who skitter is scum with

if she's scum

. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

no offense but you're ridiculously tunneled

[Deacon Blues]

that's supposed to be understood as a waffle?

It's certainly not a tunnel.

[Deacon Blues]

I mean, it's the most uncertainty I want to express in this thread without a heart-to-heart with bork. I spent a ridiculous amount of time deciding how I wanted to phrase that post. you can't know that, but getting called tunneled for it did not go down well.

[Deacon Blues]

remember when cabd was promising an epic dunk on skitter yesterday and then ghosted and now their bigtime townread just turnstiled skitter out of the thread apparently

this is such a cheap shot.

[Deacon Blues]

the thing to understand about me is that I've been lost all day and that's probably not changing until bork and I can sync again. My strong townreads aren't changing but everything below that is mush and I don't know how much solve to pin on setup and how much to pin on raw reads.

Your last I responded to, though, torched my current will to deal with you.

[Deacon Blues]

remember when cabd was promising an epic dunk on skitter yesterday and then ghosted and now their bigtime townread just turnstiled skitter out of the thread apparently

this is such a cheap shot.

i'm asking what good reason there is to vote for the turnstile on a scumread your townread is supposed to be towncasing

TOWNCASING?

ffs

[Deacon Blues]

tbf i'm p sure i was at work at the time iirc and said that i wasn't really around
and then shit blew up at work like right then and i wasn't paying attention for a bit

peta is town because i see that he's actually solving, and he's probably on the closest wavelength to me out of everyone in the whole game, which indicates that he's approaching things from a +town perspective. i follow his thought processes, and he's just clearly and consistently attempting to reevaluate and figure out where he's going wrong. in this mess of a game, he's trying to do soemthing abt it and to change things.

i think you're scum because you're consistently taking +scum stances and the worldviews that you're pushing seem increasingly unlikely to me

this still just seems like a bullshit scum argument to me

there's no substance to it

-b

[Deacon Blues]

please stop letting them have what they want and kill peta with me

he's not town

i'm talking to ffery atm

i have no idea what peta's umbrage w/ ffery's responses are here and i'm trying to get her take

-b

[Deacon Blues]

i was contesting the plausibility of a skitter scumread given she seemed anti-aligned with certain people

me: i've literally filled pages with talk about why i scumread skitter all day; i have barely even seen the anti-alignment argument, much less given it a lot of thought yet.

ffery says she's giving some credence to that argument and that it's shaken up her read on skitter some, but you were not clear on what you wanted out of that interaction (a validation or refutation of your argument) and you seem to be griping about having her explain shit she doesn't have very clear thoughts on

-b

[Deacon Blues]

the thing to understand about me is that I've been lost all day and that's probably not changing until bork and I can sync again. My strong townreads aren't changing but everything below that is mush and I don't know how much solve to pin on setup and how much to pin on raw reads.

Your last I responded to, though, torched my current will to deal with you.

i've been trying to interrogate you, and you've been failing

I misinterpreted the post that pissed me off, I think. I took at as a swipe at Dandelion for not being here with their skitter case.

Your anti-alignment tell stuff is a big part of the reason why my skitter read went mushy. It's a view of the puzzle I hadn't taken until then. I'm not sure why you wanted something specific from me about that part of your post. What I did instead was give you, as best I could since there's currently a lot of mush, where my thoughts are.

sometimes, I'm not very good at noticing when people are trying to sort me. and I feel like this is the first time you've ever tried to sort me via questions in the games we've played. I treated the interaction as a chance for heads-together solving until you got upset with it.

[Deacon Blues]

remember when cabd was promising an epic dunk on skitter yesterday and then ghosted and now their bigtime townread just turnstiled skitter out of the thread apparently

this is such a cheap shot.

i'm asking what good reason there is to vote for the turnstile on a scumread your townread is supposed to be towncasing

don't you basically think LLD-skitter has to be S-S for this to be scummy from LLD?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

don't you basically have to think LLD-skitter has to be S-S for this to be scummy from LLD?

ebwop

-b

[Deacon Blues]

like it's [saving skitter under the auspices that she's sending skitter to the other thread to get elimed] would have to be your argument here, yeah?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

also considering skitter has all but claimed to be a PR in the other thread the S!LLD->T!Skitter relationship should be even less credible to people

-b

[Deacon Blues]

if skitter is getting turnstyled you may as well leave her up at this point till ELO and let her have to be accountable for some investigations

-b

[Deacon Blues]

hydra discussion or pt discussio

i literally have not fucking posted in the hood i think in over a day
i've made probably 50 posts here in that time

I reserve the right to talk to my hydra partner as much as i fucking want lol. I'm not using it as a crutch and the constant insinuation that we're being cryptic in the here and now despite us having a fucking billion posts here is just not based in any kind of reality and i'm not having it

-b

[Deacon Blues]

we need to come together, you know

i do know. I also need to reconcile that with what i've internalized, and that takes a little time on my end and is subject to my internal biases and it's hard.
I'm trying to figure out you vs spiffeh in my spare time because i feel like that got started in a weird spot and without having really understood why initially it was difficult to empathize w/ any of it. It requires constant resets and reevaluation, and we're trying to get there.
That's the best I can do. I'm rereading a lot of this game day.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

i haven't 'all but claimed a PR', i literally claimed pr there

i know that and you know that i know that i'm just turning phrases

-b

[Deacon Blues]

it's fine if you tell me it's wrong and it's a shit read because i'm wrong plenty and need people to stand in the way sometimes but i just want to be able to reach an understanding

i don't know what i think about the negative interactions making skitter not scum read, as of yet. i need to reevaluate the likelihood of skitter not being scum w/ all those people first from my point of view

-b

[Deacon Blues]

I have a feeling that midwaybear knows his 'tunnel' on Pooky is just gonna fall on deaf ears

What do you want me to do? I'm just one person and I have no track record.

i want to know what you think about the other wagons around other than that they're not pooky

-b

[Deacon Blues]

don't you basically have to think LLD-skitter has to be S-S for this to be scummy from LLD?

ebwop

-b

like it's [saving skitter under the auspices that she's sending skitter to the other thread to get elimed] would have to be your argument here, yeah?

-b

people scumreading LLD and townreading skitter i'd like some engagement on this because that doesn't make much sense to me

-b

[Deacon Blues]

people just aren't talking about Pooky for some reason

lurkfucking + lack of content when he is here is why. There's nowhere else to go other than where we've been w/ pooky and I'm trying to weigh other options against it
because Town!pooky flip has a really low floor right now in that the playerlist isn't really differentiating themselves on the read (LLD excluded)

-b

[Deacon Blues]

I'm downgrading deacon to scum-siding if not scum

fuck off lol

-b

[Deacon Blues]

like the next person to fucking tell me i'm +ev for scum despite not being on their team (which is how i'm taking the former half of that post - at least you had the decency to maybe call me scum after that, lol)
Despite like most people in the game having not flipped yet
Despite people like having bad games and us not being solely responsible for the state the game is in
and putting a whole bunch of time into it
Can really fuck right off

-b

[Deacon Blues]

I'm a little drunk but in as polite terms as I can put them you'd basically have to be insane to think that skitter's alignment matters at all for LLD's actions this dayphase being totally unfuckingbelievable from a town POV

there's not a rational debate on this matter, LLD is claimed scum and acting like she's anything other than claimed scum is like too dumb of a point to actually entertain a rebuttal to

k, appreciate the input

-b

[Deacon Blues]

The fuck? I've talked about pooky like within the last 8 hours, midway. And LLD asked for people to challenge her townread on him.

[Deacon Blues]

but maybe she would be and that's beneficial for scum.

good news according to hench princesses you're a fucking moron too or some shit

if lld is scum and skitter is town like the elim is exactly what scum wants and a town motherfucking watcher going into the thread where she fucking watches people is not what scum wants.
that was my point

-b

[Deacon Blues]

Do you feel that he's not in the conversation anymore because his potential scumbuddies are deliberately ignoring him and focusing their attention elsewhere?

I don't know about deliberate, but the people just aren't talking about Pooky for some reason which probably gives his buddies leeway in talking about him. As long as the thread remains directed on other people, it is fine.
This theory does fall apart if these current suspects are scum (skitter, A50)

I'm talking about this post midway.

It's patently false.

[Deacon Blues]

Pooky posting his reads = Pooky being "political"

what are your reads

-b

[Deacon Blues]

ok i'm clearly tilted and not sure what to do about that other than take a break

-b

[Deacon Blues]

Ok, I might be tunneled. My bad if you are town Pooky idk

I'm still calling you on your statement that nobody's talked about Pooky.

[Deacon Blues]

gun to head, town

-b

[Deacon Blues]

peta how's your mwb read holding up?

[Deacon Blues]

because his frustration and paranoia and desire to break through the mist sound genuine to me even if he's communicating badly about it sometimes

he hit a shit ton of tonal notes in here for me day 1 which i will have to go back and find

but that's my gth read

-b

[Deacon Blues]

I'll re-read and give you thoughts if I ever find the will power to actually play this game.

thank you

-b

[Deacon Blues]

peta how's your mwb read holding up?

[Deacon Blues]

@hench, you know what, you didn't deserve some of that vitriol but:

my point was that if LLD were to flip scum, skitter basically HAS to be for me - the negative implications and opportunity cost of sending t!skitter over to the other thread vs a yeet that we were pretty close to is an astronomical loss for scum.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

ugh.

[Deacon Blues]

I'm noping out of this thread for a while.

Don't count on getting a peta vote from us.

[Deacon Blues]

i just spent the last few hours pissing off the people who might do it

i mean the fact that peta is actively willing to antagonize us despite being pretty solidly in his corner most of the game is probably +town for him too; this goes out the window when scum is desperate, but they're not.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

VOTE: all

[Deacon Blues]

I'm not putting a goddamn vote down on anyone until cephcabd are caught up and firing on all cylinders.

[Deacon Blues]

just blame us when we lose
everyone else is gonna

-b

[Deacon Blues]

i was thinking last night there might be a chance i get night killed. But i think my passiveness in last 24 hours is killing that.

fire is there any chance we're just wrong about lld and she didn't really want skitter dead because skitter is scum but does want peta dead because peta is not?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

Did anyone address this or could address whether gyphx could mention whether they have a notes PT or not

in order to answer he'd have to refer to mod communication and is therefore unethical (imo) for you to go on about

how's being town though?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

on reread i don't actually love the progression on noraa

especially culminating in 664; seems like he's piling on at a point where he should be looking for places he might be wrong; the point made in 363 is like, okay for a push but 664 implies a lockscum angle on it and eh

-b

[Deacon Blues]

i think you're dredging up things that are important, either way. peta's in a weird fucking spot today and i don't know how to deal with him.

I'm trying to just discount all the stuff happened the other night but LLD performatively feels town to me after everything:

and if HP wants to hem and haw at me for that then feel free (although looking at their reads in the other thread I feel like we're pretty close to the point where why the fuck did you dunk on me asking the question i asked about the motivation of LLD sending/activating skitter vs eliming skitter (skitter's alignment is incredibly important to explaining this imo) and continues to like try and discredit our reads in a way that doesn't feel scummy just feels like they think we don't know what we're doing or that we're saying "don't think; trust us we got this" when i don't feel like that's the situation i've ever presented to anyone. whatever. i think they're town. I'm still annoyed - I'm not asking anyone to blindly sheep me. I'll drop it from here but like, i'm trying to play the game.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

am i really building a paranoia connection by entertaining the possibility of them being scum. i'm probably going to end up positioning myself against your bloc

like i don't know what shit like this means

are we all scum?
are we all town and wrong?
are we infiltrated?

there's this perception of hivemindedness that i don't think is based on any kind of reality

-b

[Deacon Blues]

scum or effectively playing to a scum win condition

god are you just fucking scum

what a fucking bullshit hedge

-b

[Deacon Blues]

like you don't even care which it supposedly is

you can't get us elimed so you get us discredited

-b

[Deacon Blues]

Bork I'm sorry for saying you were scumsiding.

appreciate it.

firebringer might be the farthest apart we currently are: i've gotten a pretty good feeling about firebringer on this game day but i think i empathize w/ where your head is at here. i agree with the politicalness of firebringer itt i am just not sure it's scum; 8093 is potentially bad if skitter is scum for the same reasons as LLD wold be, and i realize i probably just don't have a really good argument here i just needed a port in the storm of rationality and firebringer was the one that happened to be there at the time and, i really liked 7940 when i saw it. i absolutely agree that nothing FB has done this game is anywhere close to out of my perception of what his scumrange is

anyway i think everyone should read HP 6554 over there it's not a bad summary overall and the points on bell in particular are exactly how i feel about bell

-b

[Deacon Blues]

how was everyones week?

not bad, you?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

what is your current goal here w/ this catchup attempt? to get a peta read in particular?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

thanks

-b

[Deacon Blues]

i believe(d) your continued aliveness was going to be harmful and prevent scum eliminations

You're really knocking it out of the park too if you're town
See that's not a really nice thing to say, is it?

How is that helpful other than to annoy me? You should care about our alignment and it seems like you don't other than labeling us Plus Ee Vee Scum® but like you can't even point to a spot where we're like leading town off the cliff other than what, ffery was trying to explain to you her tenuous read on a slot that didn't align with yours?

-b

[Deacon Blues]

scum or effectively playing to a scum win condition

god are you just fucking scum

what a fucking bullshit hedge

-b

i believe(d) your continued aliveness was going to be harmful and prevent scum eliminations

but go off



now, granted, since stepping away from the thread i figured i might just be overthinking it, maybe it is almost50, the traditionally scummy lowposter, votes haven't been great, the way he crumbed didn't entirely make sense. spiffeh has been trying to actually reason with me which seems townish. but then compromising there would mean voting with 2 of the 3 people voting me currently and that seems like a bad idea, gamestate says scum will want to push to eliminate me even when i should be fairly obviously town by role because they need to force any elimination possible and i suspect that's what's happening.

Which scum eliminations do you think we're preventing? Is this about us specifically or the "significant number of you" in your post 8429?

[Deacon Blues]

i believe(d) your continued aliveness was going to be harmful and prevent scum eliminations

You're really knocking it out of the park too if you're town
See that's not a really nice thing to say, is it?

How is that helpful other than to annoy me? You should care about our alignment and it seems like you don't other than labeling us Plus Ee Vee Scum® but like you can't even point to a spot where we're like leading town off the cliff other than what, ffery was trying to explain to you her tenuous read on a slot that didn't align with yours?

-b

everyone makes mistakes but i'm not going to take it personally. stuff like this is offputting and just makes me want to kill you regardless though. (not that i have the ability to make that happen!)


i care about your alignment but i've been cycling through everyone trying to figure things out, i don't actually have good reasons to townread you, and at some point in conversing with you i started to get a bad gut feeling. i don't think she really explained a read though, i wanted some expression of thought that looked spontaneous and not constructed but didn't get it

You didn't get it because I felt lost and really wanted to sync with bork and see if it's just me or if we're both confused af.

Have you played enough with Spiffeh to have an opinion on his reaction to being one of the leading wagons? I'm townreading that and his posting in general in both threads, but I don't know if I should be.

[Deacon Blues]

peta feels utterly townspewy on this page

-b

[Deacon Blues]

i know i'm like the fucking



right now but in the moment that's where i'm at and i get HP's take on this read more than ever

-b

[Deacon Blues]

borkffery i just need to say that your approach to reading me / your approach to me this game literally makes no sense to me

i utterly don't know what to say to this and my layers are peeling away and revealing a defeated husk

so go ahead and lay on me why you think that if nothing else so i can adjust my approach in the future because i feel like the more i try the more turned around i get and the more people rail against my approach

-b

[Deacon Blues]

i'm not sure it particularly makes you scum but i am utterly baffled

at this point i'm not sure if i'm more worried about the scum saying we're worthless or the town saying we're worthless

i'm willing to engage w/ the latter post game on what went wrong

-b

[Deacon Blues]

but just like: what have you/dandelion been right abt this game? i don't mean this pejoratively or like trying to throw shade.

what's anyone demonstrably been right about this game? I think maybe this is the major disconnect i have with everyone calling me shit is that like there hasn't been a whole lot of countermovement to any of the wagons we have going that i feel responsible for screwing over. maybe you have a different take.

i can point to several different things that show me my view of the gamestate has been p on point for quite a while now. i know we're wrong, and i can tell you where we're wrong. i don't know exactly what the 'right' thing to do is rn, but i can point to several things that i think would muck things abt more than they currently are. and, well, very little that i've been said about the gamestate over the past few days has been wrong, so i don't have much reason to think i'm on the wrong track right now either. i feel like a lot of what you (collectively) have been trying to do have been off, so i'm struggling to understand why i should give much credence to your reads or understanding of what's going on rn

and like once again i've calmed down from a few days ago. i'm not trying to say this in an attacking / perjorative fashion. i just mean very practically if i have reason to believe i'm more on track than you are, i'm struggling to see why i should listen to you very much, and i want to try to get us on the same page because i think your slot is very probably town so it's better for us all to be on the same page than for us to be fighting with each other or for us to be pushing competing worldviews because we can't both be right

so i want to try to resolve the differences and figure out where we're drifting apart and talk it through and try to get things back on track, cuz i think if i can get you (i.e. borkffery) to agree with me, things probably get a bit better
(that is probably egocentric of me but whatever)

i promise i am utterly all ears at this particular moment; i would like to engage with you on what you think i'm wrong about and i will treat anything you say in completely good faith to converse about.
And just to be clear: i'm not in a lobbying mode. I never have been. ffery never has been. If i found someone reliably sheepable i would do it.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

Which scum eliminations do you think we're preventing? Is this about us specifically or the "significant number of you" in your post 8429?

in particular i felt like you were trying to talk me down from my suspicion of spiffeh in a weaselly way where you weren't outright defending but rather trying to divert my attention, if he is scum i would be calling for you to go after him


i guess the tinfoil i cooked up was that the random largelyafk disconnected people are town and scum are just banding together and running things

I meta'd 3 recent spiffeh games night 1 working with Nacho and Tammy on their forwards thread reads. I came away thinking that his play felt pretty close to his town games (especially the one where he wasn't a mason trying to be a little underwhelming). Then I iso'd scum-him a few days ago in the pooky vs fl game and this game doesn't feel like that one unless I'm just blind. He was high on stances but low on reasoning for the stances, if that makes sense.

I was hoping to compare meta notes with Cabd again on the recent game, which is why I was reluctant to go into that read, at least the meta part of it. Didn't want to telegraph my findings to him.

By reputation Spiffeh's a formidable player - but not one I have any experience playing with.

[Deacon Blues]

wanna level set real quick here before i may have to bail for the night here but:

- fl was town
- titus was going to flip town
- there was going to be max 1 scum in titus/ss/pk
- the whole plan to rid the forwards thread of scum wasn't going to work and was going to be a wild goose chase and waste of time

I'm not at odds with most of this. I thought FL was probtown and titus was town and i know I have posts to both effect.
ss/pk sure, was a misflip; i was involved in that, granted. and it was wrong; don't really mind the lover kill on ss i guess but you're utterly correct in that it wasn't scum.
totally agree on the last point as well; i'm more in the camp of use it to activate PRs and at this point we've pretty much done that for most people claiming them. Will grant that there was a lot of weird friction in getting to that point and a lot of people were driving the "remove scum" plan but I agree that it was a pipe dream.

so let's try and focus on areas where we differ because if that's the basis that you're working off of in that my view of the gamestate differs from yours we're not gonna get anywhere here.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

and for the fact that dandelion/you have been controlling a lot of the game - at least from my pov, it feels like a lot has gone down in the hoods that has been hidden (on purpose or not) from everyone else, and it has directed quite a lot of how later days has gone. in particular the spiffeh/sb9 turnstile. it still doesn't make sense to me honestly why there were so many machinations for that to have happened, or what benefit we particularly got out of it. to me, if cabd was town, i feel like we'd have seen more pro-town reads, conclusions, or mechanical outputs than we actually have. i'm aware that this is some level of bop, but he's been directing a lot of this game, and i just still don't see the +town purpose to a lot of what he's doing. maybe i'm just being blind and so i odn't see it. but like maybe you can help me here, by explaining how he's been approaching the game in a +town fashion? like what was he doing to concretely help solve the game in those hoods?

agree that this is worth talking about and involves some collection on my part.

-b

[Deacon Blues]

I kinda want a reality check on Spiffeh

Wispy cold meta is scary and I'd love to have someone I trust and who has experience with Spiffeh to come out with a definitive case there. Not sure that person even exists in this game.

[Deacon Blues]

Why wouldn't I?

[Deacon Blues]

It might actually be better than a case from someone I'm inclined to accept at face value, FB.

[Deacon Blues]

cmd shutdown -r /f

[Deacon Blues]

</3

[Deacon Blues]

No. I want to go over it with bork

[Deacon Blues]

p sure bork's asleep

[Deacon Blues]

skitter is still scum.