Mafiascum.net

Votecount

catboi (1):

marcistar

Not Voting (3):

Lukewarm, catboi, Meuh

With 4 players alive, it takes 3 votes to eliminate a player.

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-10 16:00:00)

Vote history

marcistar votes catboi: Post #960

Past final votecounts

Day 1 Final Votecount: Post #425
Day 2 Final Votecount: Post #812
Day 3 Final Votecount: Post #899

In post 965, Lukewarm wrote:@Meuh, you said that you have a lot of experience playing with Marci, right? Can you weigh in on something that has stood out to me?

In your experience playing with her, is Marci normally particularly hesitant / apologetic as a town player? She seems very hesitant to make her claims without first making it clear that she is unsure and she also repeatedly set up an out of game reason why she might be underperforming as a town player. In my experience, town players seem more inclined to just confidently be wrong. But this can vary a lot by player

Spoiler:

before coming to this site, I mainly played with the same group of people over and over, and this was something I could use as a scum tell for some players, but we did have this one girl who was always super hesitent no matter what

Spoiler:

In post 107, marcistar wrote: I don't have many reads rn I won't lie, it's kinda hard because it just seems like the same few people talking with others coming in once in awhile, and theres nothing all that solid, but I'll give my best shot

In post 119, marcistar wrote: I get played soo easily I hope I don't get played this game tho.

In post 151, marcistar wrote: before I 100% say cause its so hard to decide. (I just really dont know sorry )

In post 219, marcistar wrote:I'm so sorry guys I have a lot of schoolwork to do rn, and dont feel like i can put effort in rn like i have in previous days

In post 228, marcistar wrote: I hope i used the right post numbers im so scared of doing these kinds of lists cuz I tried it last game and by accident put the wrong number

In post 249, marcistar wrote: Hmm, not sure exactly what I think..

In post 264, marcistar wrote:
I didn't really feel hella confident in anyone being scum earlier (like i had scum reads, but i wasn't confident in them...), Idk where to go I wanna make a vote that I think is scum instead of just going onto a wagon for the sake of an elim.. but with votes this spread out, i don't really see reactions to being voted..
I think despite what I want to do, that I should just stick within the already being voted because thats what'll be best for town.

Do you have suggestions..? I wanna hear whats the ideas of other people first... but I have a rough idea of what vote I would make.

In post 312, marcistar wrote: i hope this helps..?

In post 313, marcistar wrote:wait also heres my VOTE: meuh

i think my heads broken reading meuh is always so hard for me

In post 327, marcistar wrote: --- I don't believe it. I could always be wrong

In post 513, marcistar wrote:I'm sorry guys I was too pissed to play yesterday ;-; my brothers so annoying

In post 730, marcistar wrote:that looks so big, but i wrote it as I was reading i'm sorry if its too much

In post 883, marcistar wrote: i'm sorry i haven't been here so often. i feel so useless.

In post 893, marcistar wrote: im useless because i've been focusing on hw instead of helping im sorry

In post 960, marcistar wrote: I'm not really like 100% sure on this... but its the best idea i've got..
{snip}
This is the read i'm most confident in, so I'll be voting it VOTE: catboi, if its lukewarm... i've truly been tricked and i'll take the blame for this loss.

Alright so, is Marci occasionally apologetic, maybe a bit more than average? Yes. BUT, not this much. 119 sticks out to me, it feels off to me. 219, 228, 313, 513, 730 and 893 are all regular Marci posts to me, but the rest I feel at least a bit doubtful on. The idea that me and Marci suck at reading each other is something we both bring up pretty often, so that's not uncharacteristic, she feels like a more confident player in the 2 games I've played with her and that I've skimmed through.

In post 259, marcistar wrote:

In post 258, Krazy wrote:Marci it will be hard to find you town at endgame if you keep not voting, we need your vote to be proactive so that vote logic is comprehensible in the game

i wont vote if i dont like the options is it bad to not vote if im not confident??? i dont wanna lynch a townie

harumi is who i thinks most scum so ill vote that then, but i dont want to vote anyone else, im not confident in anyone else being scum. VOTE: harumi

Here though for example, you can see that this isn't out of the ordinary from Marci, I've just noticed it a bit less while skimming?
I feel like I'm confbiasing myself but I do think she's extra defensive

The whole issue with this is that her whole pool of games are from not only town!Marci but vt!Marci. Being more careful about survival is something both scum and prs would do, so you could argue part of it is that she fears confrontation as a defense mechanism due to her bringing more value to the table; although I don't really view her hesitance as really helping her if she is PR and I don't think she's the kind of player to consciously change her playstyle much as PR, but with scum it's very hard not to.

In post 960, marcistar wrote:934 (and another post that i forgot which) tries to say im "scum trying to tie townies down to their partner" essentially, right? but wouldn't town be trying to keep their eyes out for possible duos?

I don't understand what point you're trying to make here, Marci? Scum want to tie town to their partners so that the partners are seen as duos with townies so the townies will be elimed afterwards.

In post 961, catboi wrote:Ah, marci...so this is the path you've chosen. I'm assuming you're scum who sees pushing me as your best hope, but I'll give what you say a look.

Why would scum be committing to a wagon this early? Marci looks town for that vote imo

the logic in 676 very much makes sense, with trackerxjailkeeper, we do just win the game if we get a singular scum elim, and that's what everyone thought the setup was at the time. Timing is very much weird though, right after voting VFP

In post 964, catboi wrote:When I voted him on day 2, before not_mafia had even claimed, VFP immediately pushed back onto me. In this scenario,

if I were the mafia roleblocker, VFP bussing me would be an automatic loss

. mafia aren't going to make plays like this. I'd be telling him not to do it. And I'm the

only

one he pushes, for the rest of the day up until the point he's eliminated:

This is true, if we we're in A2 (which a VFPxCatboi) team would know here, rber dead means an insta-loss (goon doesn't, but rber does since jailkeeper/tracker can narrow our scumpool), so while Catboi pushing VFP doesn't clear him too much, VFP pushing him does prove a lot more

In post 1003, Meuh wrote:

In post 961, catboi wrote:Ah, marci...so this is the path you've chosen. I'm assuming you're scum who sees pushing me as your best hope, but I'll give what you say a look.

Why would scum be committing to a wagon this early? Marci looks town for that vote imo

Huh? If she's scum here, she knows that I am correctly reading her and am unlikely to change my mind, so her best bet is to push me. Committing to a vote early in ELO isn't a towntell.

i feel like part of the reason i'm liking catboi here is that i prefer his logic but that's not really AI, he just communicates messages and makes point i have an easier time agreeing with

In post 969, Lukewarm wrote:@Meuh, on the other hand, this is a post from catboi that stood out to me.

In post 629, catboi wrote:If T3 or marci express a willingness to vote me I'll claim.

Like it is hard to see this, and not think it is a soft pr claim.

It further irks me because at the time that he made this post, he only had 2 votes on him. So he was no where near being voted off, so it was not a "if someone is about to hammer me, I will claim my role as VT"

yeah it seems a bit of an early point to claim, and hinting pr makes a lot more sense as rber since being the more valuable member, being able to brush off the push on them with a pr claim could work.
Also if we look at the way Catboi assumed it was a doctor game, we could see this also as hinting pr, so Catboi would be fake-claiming doctor. The issue with that is that it would initiate a 1v1 between Catboi and the real pr, and if the scum team was going for a 1v1 (which idk why they'd do), they'd at least be sending VFP in. Maybe they were thinking that since the pr was jailkeeper (which they'd know at that point) that they could go after them for not claiming early in the day, but it doesn't really matter, trading rber for jailkeeper doesn't seem very worthwhile to me, especially considering that gamestate.
There's literally no reason for Catboi to fake claim pr here. It's one thing for behaviour to seemingly imply something but if this implication would be BAD for the scumteam, I don't understand how that post could be scummy.
The only way I can see scum!Catboi benefit from softing pr is to be able to brush off the push on him temporarily, and just go "no this actually wasn't softing pr" down the line since it isn't very blatant, but being able to ride that line between softing pr and just being town accidentally implying pr, and then also have people catch onto you, just doesn't seem like a worthwhile to me.

Yeah Luke, while I'm here to support you, you need to form your own thoughts and commit to your own ideas, non-commitment isn't gonna get us anywhere, plus you need to support me too (ik I'm incredible but I can't solo-carry MELO ) You probably do quite a bit of that in your more recent posts but I haven't gotten to them yet
But yep, fence-sitting here is generally scummy, like at almost any point in the game but here especially, scum want to keep as many doors open as possible so they always have some sort of plan B and plan C if their main push doesn't turn out the way they want it to.

In post 998, Lukewarm wrote:

In post 996, catboi wrote:

In post 995, Lukewarm wrote:

In post 994, catboi wrote:(but, again, self-meta doesn't mean a whole lot)

You can say that again. As of post 968, I was leaning pretty strongly towards Marci being the vote today, and really was just waiting to hear Meuh's response to post 965 before I settled in to that being the case I was going to build. But every time you have tried to defend yourself, I have been left less sure its her

Speaking of which, @Meuh can you make sure to respond to Post 965 - 968

Well, I thik if muy posting has been offputting you should remember what gets said today isn't the most important thing - the most revealing evidence is on all the days before this. I think getting dragged down because someone's posting in ELO sounds "off" to you is a mistake. Like how you sounding like you were fencesitting earlier pinged me, but I didn't flip my entire read on it. I just was upfront with what made me uneasy and asked you to clarify.

It is not that I am "getting dragged down because someone's posting in ELO sounds "off." It is much more like you keep reminding me why I was scum reading you earlier in the game. Like I had you near the top of my scum read list during my catchup on Day 1... and I had you as my top scum read Day 2... And even at the start of this day, you were my scum read. How dumb would I feel post game if I literally scum read you the entire game, and still lost to scum!catboi because he managed to side track me last min.

I think at this point I am going to have to build full cases against both of you tomorrow, because I have been pulled back to uncertainty

If this is scum!Catboi and we miselim Marci that'd be so embarassing I'm actually so scared of that, T3 will have every right to yell at us post-game

In post 1006, catboi wrote:

In post 1003, Meuh wrote:

In post 961, catboi wrote:Ah, marci...so this is the path you've chosen. I'm assuming you're scum who sees pushing me as your best hope, but I'll give what you say a look.

Why would scum be committing to a wagon this early? Marci looks town for that vote imo

Huh? If she's scum here, she knows that I am correctly reading her and am unlikely to change my mind, so her best bet is to push me. Committing to a vote early in ELO isn't a towntell.

Eh yeah ig for her specifically here it wouldn't, I just feel like fence-sitting and keeping doors open is something scum like to do, making voting kinda scary for them here, not that voting is pro-town.

I'm officially caught up

In post 1012, Meuh wrote:

In post 1006, catboi wrote:

In post 1003, Meuh wrote:

In post 961, catboi wrote:Ah, marci...so this is the path you've chosen. I'm assuming you're scum who sees pushing me as your best hope, but I'll give what you say a look.

Why would scum be committing to a wagon this early? Marci looks town for that vote imo

Huh? If she's scum here, she knows that I am correctly reading her and am unlikely to change my mind, so her best bet is to push me. Committing to a vote early in ELO isn't a towntell.

Eh yeah ig for her specifically here it wouldn't, I just feel like fence-sitting and keeping doors open is something scum like to do, making voting kinda scary for them here, not that voting is pro-town.

In this phase of the game, that's often correct! But it's not always the case, plus I asked her to provide a read before this, not coming back with one looks bad. Again not a key point against her, just my perception of what was going on at that moment in time.

marci hasn't posted in 24 hours. I'm ok with voting her but wanted to give her a chance to respond first.

In post 1011, Meuh wrote:If this is scum!Catboi and we miselim Marci that'd be so embarassing I'm actually so scared of that, T3 will have every right to yell at us post-game

While I understand the concern about the dead's reads, T3 was operating under the false assumption that it was between me and lukewarm. So was everyone at the time. So it's not like he'd weighed in on whether marci was possibly scum, and his read on me was entirely based in process of elimination in that he didn't think it was lukewarm. He didn't have independent reasons for scumreading me.

im sorry guys i got really busy with school and other stuff and didnt have enough time to fully check the thread

i forgot what page im on does anyone remember LOL

In post 1017, marcistar wrote:im sorry guys i got really busy with school and other stuff and didnt have enough time to fully check the thread

i forgot what page im on does anyone remember LOL

I always just use my own iso to find my spot

You last post was 960.

Yeah that's what I do.


I think I wan to hammer test lukewarm right now to be sure we're not wasting time. Lukewarm, you still around?

NVM. maybe tomorrow.

Can't sleep, so I'm starting my case building tonight





During Day 1, the very first time he mentions Sama in the thread was 239, where he gave him a town read. After that, I cannot find a single point where Catboi gives any reason he might suspect Sama, and interestingly, appears to have questioned everyone who gave Sama a scum read.



On the flip side, Sama does not mention Catboi very much. But in general, he starts him as a null read, and steadily gives him "more townie point"




I think it is important to break up Day 2 as "Before Not_Mafia" and "After Not_Mafia"


The VFP entrance: VFP joins the thread, and gives a full read of the lobby in Post 501, and his scum reads are and . So regarless of his partner, he put them into his scum list. However, he follows up and says that his preference for the Day 2 vote is Pear>Marci>Catboi, and then proceeds to build a case against Pear.


The Catboi reaction: So VFP just showed up into the thread, and build a case against Pear, and catboi appears to town read VFP for making that push. And then later makes a clear town read on VFP


So to recap, we reach the end of the "Before Not Mafia" times with Catboi having a town read on VFP, and VFP has a scum read on catboi (and marci), but with preference of Pear>Marci>Catboi


We reach post 607, where Not Mafia comes in with "we should vote VFP or flash wagon catboi" - and in response they both bus. Catboi votes VFP in 610 calling it a compromise vote and VFP votes Catboi in 615

For the rest of Day 2 Catboi and VFP both make cases against each other. But again, this is after NM said we are going to vote one or the other. Meaning, their only chance at a win would be to make sure the rest of the thread thinks that they could not be partners.

And despite the cross vote that they did in response to Not_Mafia, Catboi kept trying to shift the vote away from VFP and to me through out the rest of Day 2




Everything above here is stuff I saw looking at the catboi/VFP dual iso. But there were a couple other things I wanted to point out as well.

I still stand behind my post 684 / 686 / 687. Catboi seems to make a concious effort the defend pear, but all of his defenses came off as disingenuois. And I would like to follow that up with something Pear said himself in response



I also thought Meuh made a good point in post 453



I could see this as a partner pair. Neither made any effort to build a case on the other until after Not_Mafia stepped in the later part of Day 2, when they then cross voted.

Okay. I am going to go to bed now. Will look into Marci / VFP interactions tomorrow.

Ugh why is this so hard I swear if Catboi has had me pocketed since mid-day 2 I’d die of embarrassment
Insightful post though Luke, I’ll need to reread some of day 2 to get a better grasp of whether your or Catboi’s interpretation was more accurate

*mid-day 1

Also Lukewarm, I think 579 and 602 explain a fair bit why Catboi would think you’re scummier than VFP, doesn’t necessarily justify it but
“tl;dr
VFP pushes pear // I don't buy it but I think VFP might be town regardless
Luke pushes pear // I don't buy it and I think Luke is scum for making the case he did”
Doesn’t seem entirely accurate

I think the appeal of some grandiose reveal that the PR claim is actually scum and the satisfaction that elim would bring is unironically biasing me here
I think it’s Catboi probably, this whole Marci thing needs to go though so many hoops to be true that Catboi’s case doesn’t
Also I almost never dream but for some reason I just had a dream that Catboi, Marci and Luke were all town and somehow, for some reason, N_M was the last scum??? It was very odd, would’ve felt enlightened if it wasn’t for him literally flipping jailkeeper

In post 1019, catboi wrote:Yeah that's what I do.


I think I wan to hammer test lukewarm right now to be sure we're not wasting time. Lukewarm, you still around?

If we wanna fully commit to Catboi v marci I’m open to that, that’s true wasting time would suck