open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[skitter30]

This is probably kaiji's towngame

At the very least if the vig is scum he absolutely isnt

This is...points for intellectual consistency, I guess, but I still don't get skitter's argument for not-vig = town

At that point, there were already signs that the vig slot was scum

Kaiji repped in and indicated they werent vig, giving us a pool to find the vig in (+ town, -scum)

And the way they said it kinda belied that they werent caught up / were out of touch with the gamestate / didnt realize the vig would be such a central point of the game (which i think they would realize if they're on a scumteam with a vig)

Or another way of saying this: i dont think they slip not-vig while on a scumteam that contains a vig who shot a town n1

[skitter30]

Both skitter and Datisi have been pushing these shallow wagonomics theories which I hate because I think wagonomics is bunk

Dont think its bunk, it works p well as a tool ime if u know how to read it

I just dont really see a lot of games with a big eod scramble where *none* of the people involved are scum

[skitter30]

ok random but i mixed up skitter and NSG and thought i was skitter for a bit LOL

>.>
that's probably town-indicative, which is a shame cuz i was gonna vote u and idk who to vote now

Oh i forgot abt this, sigh, this is also why i think them thinking they're vig is town indicative

they repped in thinking they had my slot (i.e. number 2), went for vig, but were vt. And from this perspective, they thought andante was vig (and thus double-checked their work, and saw andante makes sense as shooting iv)

This makes *a lot of sense* as a town progression, but makes little sense as a scum progression who knows where the vig is

[skitter30]

VOTE: SirCakez

I think midwaybear is the most likely scum out of the more "active" players

Why'd you vote cakez here (i.e. over mena)?

[skitter30]

kaiji gdi

will vote midway I guess but in my very limited capacity I feel like the difficulty in getting traction on either of cakez/catboi is probably telling given that sleepless/myself/maybe kaiji!slot have all been p easy to run up at one point or another and given that 2/3 are town with potentials for all 3 I wonder if scum are just propping up any alt wagon that comes along while avoiding each other

I need to read cakez/catboi interactions more closely tho, I'm not sure if they make sense as scum teaming or just that they could each be individually

This is a bizarre post in retrospect but idk what to do with it

[skitter30]

andante is first draft pick

andante has a hard on for an IV scum read


andante hero shoots IV and then daystart here talks about the IV shot and sheeping IV.

They're still convinced andante is the vig here

[skitter30]

I dont think catboi is aligned with mena and i really dont think kaiji is dcum so 2/3 in alyssa/ss/dats for me

If i ever had a reason to tr ss that's long gone now

[skitter30]

Andante: 2
skitter30: 3
midwaybear: 5
Mare: 6
innocentvillager: 10
SirCakez: 12
Faker: 14
catboi: 21
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 + coin flip victory
Datisi: 1
northsidegal: 8 + coin flip victory
Sleepless Assassin: 8
flow trap: 9 + coin flip victory
Something_Smart: 9.

Although if thay's right scum *had* to have doubled-up somewhere which is, uh, a thing i guess

[skitter30]

Wouldnt put that past ss tho

[skitter30]

why is catboi not aligned with mena again?

Started the mena wagon day2 and after it switched to midway went back to mena again

Mena was trying to angle to get me to wagon catboi

If catboi is scum idk what he picked (probably went for ascetic cop tbh)

Not sure if mena guilties partner-catboi

[skitter30]

re: voting on catboi/cakez. skitt I was barely making it to thread last week, I didn't know the exact wagons. I'm only here now because no students turned up during my last 1.5hrs and so I can be here for a bit while avoiding lesson planning

would you be interested in doing catboi now ?

^ here, wanted me to vote catboi with him
Apparently didnt know thay catboi was the biggest wagon starting the day

[skitter30]

Why

[skitter30]

I'm asking more abt the ss bit

~

And r.e. catboi i think he tried the most to get the slot out day2
And independant of that i still dont think he plays this game this way as scum

And i dont think he lets mena fake a guilty on him when he's playing this way either

~

Bye dats! We shall see how much energy i have later!

[skitter30]

because a mechanics expert who tried to maximise the stuff that scum got in that run of pyp where he was scum wouldn't double up on a fucking 9, and then pick multitasking, and i am betting the game on that

later

He's also relying on the fact that no scum has doubled up...


I do agree that its janky tho. This whole game is janky tho

Also idk why mena decided to 'clear' me, i wouldnt have let him make that claim if i was partners eith him since it was kinda dumb. But even if mena was supposed to die there, catboi was pushing him *day2*, before the claim

[skitter30]

What do u think abt my kaiji/vig theory?

[skitter30]

that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever considering that, had they replaced into your slot, they would've known that you went for tracker/jailkeeper and not vig/pgo so i have no clue how you're getting here lmfao

No, i'm saying they got told their slot went for vig/pgo, and failed to get it, and thought that the og person who went for vig/pgo in the second slot was me, and that therefore andante was vig

They were wrong, but this is what they thought upon repping in, and i dont think they think that as scum (particularly that andante was vig) as they'd know where the vig is

I know that my slot didnt pick vig, i didnt blunder anything ... i was explaining how i think town-kaiji was viewing the game upon repping in

[skitter30]

again, i will go through that when i get home later today, but "catboi pushed scum so he's town" is not convincing by itself whatsoever

I mean if catboi's scum with mena he's playing a p bad game, sure, but the only thing be did good-ish from a scum perspecticd was have a nice trajectory on mena day2 and then decided to have mena fake a weird guilty on him which like i suppose is possible but i dont really see it

And if ss is town because he doesnt double-up with any of the scum candidiates, i'm left with like you/alyssa (ans you're still doubled up), ss with catboi, or catboi with anybody (except i'm not really convinced we're in that universe)

Ss with catboi means catboi is ascetic cop i think? I dont think he actually goes for neighborizer as top scum there ...
And if he is, and mena guilties his partner, scum is betting nobody else takes any actions on catboi for the rest of the game ....

That doesnt really make much sense either

[skitter30]

Yes but i think kaiji used that to back up their initial theory / relied on that once they realized their theory was wrong

[skitter30]

Yeah that's what i was reading through earlier/the timeframe on the posts i quoted, and my conclusion is that you dont look super partnered with mena (esp. since you stuck with him once other people moved off), i dont think kaiji is scum, and i dont like alyssa's cakez vote there

[skitter30]

I've seen people scumread me for that Menalque slot read

Idk what to tell you about that one, it's simply more productive to kill slots that give more information about the game than slots that have done zilch in that situation, if you want to scumread me for not wanting to kill a slot that has nothing readable that happened to be scum in a gamestate that was extremely lethargic with multiple unreadable slots, idk what to tell you there at that point

Ig dats doesnt like great for jumping on and off either

[skitter30]

I'm leaning back towards Datisi being just scum again

Ya maybe he is
But then he decided to collide with pooky and pick multitasking for the lolz

[skitter30]

But then he decided to collide with pooky and pick multitasking for the lolz

There is a chance, albeit a small one, that Pooky submitted that last-minute without Datisi's permission.

They are different timezones I believe, and I don't like to consider that the scumteam isn't necessarily working in unison but sometimes they don't.

Doesn't really move the needle much for me, but it's not impossible.

Eh i dont see that universe tbh. If they were scum together the colliding would have been intentional imo

[skitter30]

what's the difference between that post from alyssa, and that one post from kaiji you didn't like bc it was telegraphing they were gonna vote you or whatever

Not sure what you're asking, in what way are they similar?

[skitter30]

I'm leaning back towards Datisi being just scum again

Ya maybe he is
But then he decided to collide with pooky and pick multitasking for the lolz

weren't you just arguing that s_s would intentionally collide?

I can see ss doing it, i'm having a harder time seeing dats do it

And i'm like thinking through the possibilities, all of them have some issue >.>

[skitter30]

am i ignoring the possibility of s_s being scum because i am happy about someone having enough common sense to know that i don't double up on number choices? maybe

Apparently, yes

[skitter30]

Idk, they didnt feel the same to me in that way

[skitter30]

I got dumped last night so mafia pls throw for me thx

:(

[skitter30]

Alyssa > dats > ss > catboi > kaiji

[skitter30]

Y ss over me/dats

[skitter30]

Can you imagine a Skitter/Datisi/Alyssa/Kaiji endgame

>.>

But i dont get why you're going for ss now

[skitter30]

Like why not dats

[skitter30]

Sigh
I'm just kinda generally resigned to a loss at this point

Pedit dats are u gonna answer the alyssa thing?

[skitter30]

That's not exactly what i was thinking but kinda along those lines yeah

[skitter30]

Dats ig why *ought* i be townreading u here?

[skitter30]

In a pique-ish folly i was hoping to magically recieve clarity

Pedit i didnt read that yet

[skitter30]

Whats catboi's role/draft in that universe and ehy did mena guilty him?

[skitter30]

But if mena is going down anyways why doesnt he guilty a town?

And if catboi is top scum in the draft, what does he go for?
(Although it did just occur to me from a draft perspective alyssa/catboi make sense)

[skitter30]

In the universe where catboi is scum i think he's the ac/bp bracket

[skitter30]

(If anyone would like to know what I read on flow feel free to peruse Purgatory and draw your own conclusions)

can we get a rehash of what those conclusions were - i was in this game myself

I'm pretty sure I already went over this but in short - flow as both alignments starts off heavy on the spam and filler but as town eventually they shift into something more serious and actually start solcing where as scum they just kind of don't, they'll give token reads without much behind them but mostly just keep shitposting

Oh hey! The latter is what they were doing in this game!

[skitter30]

Alyssa why are you wanting to flip ss today?

[skitter30]

I mean ... why are you convinced he's scum all of a sudden

[skitter30]

Because nobody has paid next to any attention to him

I'm ... not sure why that's beating your reasons for being sus of me/dats?

[skitter30]

Ok so like 2 days left ...

[skitter30]

Catboi ig id kaiji is scum here the bit that i cant get over is that they looked very, very, very uninformed for where the vig was when they repped on, in a way that i think makes more sense coming from town than scum ... what do u think abt my theory there?

~

And i have no idea how we're ever gonna come to a consensis here but would kinda rather flip someone today than no llim

[skitter30]

And oh the memories >.>

[skitter30]

From my pov there has to be scum in kaiji/alyssa, right? Cuz otherwise 2 of {cat, dats, ss} would have ended the game already

That's right, right?

I cant really think properly tonight but if someone can confirm that i'll vote alyssa ^

If kaiji is scum ig we're just accepting that loss at this point

[skitter30]

Fine, but i'm noting that i rather dislike how you're going abt this @kaiji

VOTE: alyssa

And catboi tbf neither do u apparently

[skitter30]

Ugh i really hate it when everyone goes quiet at this point

[skitter30]

Yeah i dont either but ig from my pov i know there's at least one scum in alyssa/kaiji, yay

I really, really dont like being strong armed into voting tho, just noting that for the broader universe i suppose

[skitter30]

Well then

Wasnt gonna get there

Kaiji plz dont play with me in the future, ty

[skitter30]

Catboi you were indeed ac?

This was an utter utter utter slog on so many levels and i am rather glad this is over

Pedit i mean i'm kinda annoyed it ended on me but it was also kinda inevitable for like two weeks so like yeag

[skitter30]

Should have stuck to my guns that 21 was scummy, i suppose

Anyways gg scum, although i think town lost this more than you won it (no offense)

[skitter30]

I mean ok

[skitter30]

Huh i think you should have gone for ac

And yeah same ... i kinda decided at some point that if this is a loss its not in my hands anymore. I dont think i could have tried more than i did, but when like 2/3 of town is not playing (in all incarnatjons of it), at some point there's just not much i can do, and like i really cant tell the difference betweeen unmotivated cats dats ss and alyssa in elo, i just cant

~

Catboi ig are you actually that burnt out or was that an act

And what *was* mena thinking ...

[skitter30]

Frustrated i had the solve just no one wanted to vote catboi meh

I mean ok

[skitter30]

Kaiji i find you deeply unpleasant to play with, and the only reason i didnt rep out is because i didnt want to make some unfortunate soul take my place in this utter mess of a game

Plz dont play games with me in the future, and please dont join games that i'm in on alts that i cannot easily identify as you, ty

[skitter30]

Eh i have something to say on that but ig i'm not sure its nice so i wont

But anyways i'm glad this is finally over ...

[skitter30]

I think if you drop me the day ends in a misflip and we can at least try again tomorrow

I dont think we flip alyssa (or even necessarily me) today if you didnt force this cross vote, which wcum were obviously quite happy about

[skitter30]

skitter, i'm not sure what I did in the realm of the game of mafia that was "deeply unpleasant" to you that is unacceptable to play with, other than the fact that being tunneled sucks in general. If you can point me to any examples of where I crossed a line, feel free to and I will try to improve in the future as I have been trying to over the past couple of years.

Spoiler:

I found you refusing to interact with me because you scumread me to be quite unpleasant, demoralizing, and basically the point where i recognized the game would be a loss

You had a variety of posts on day4 that were almost mocking, rude, and were almost trying to piss me off

[skitter30]

ok so we're like halfway through the day and have like 5 slots that aren't doing anything ...

I feel like i kinda knew where this was going >.>

[skitter30]

skitter, i'm not sure what I did in the realm of the game of mafia that was "deeply unpleasant" to you that is unacceptable to play with, other than the fact that being tunneled sucks in general. If you can point me to any examples of where I crossed a line, feel free to and I will try to improve in the future as I have been trying to over the past couple of years.

Spoiler:

I found you refusing to interact with me because you scumread me to be quite unpleasant, demoralizing, and basically the point where i recognized the game would be a loss

You had a variety of posts on day4 that were almost mocking, rude, and were almost trying to piss me off

Spoiler:

i recognize the refusal to interact is a thing i still fall back on when frustrated making a push and thinking im being manipulated to look scummy. I know you're the archaetype of scum player to absolutely make someone twist their words and use them against them as scum and I was afraid of the scenario where you'd use that to make me a game ending mislim. I did not mean anything mockingly/rude, I apologize if it came off that way. I'm still working on that kind of stuff, which I've very majorly improved on the past year alone since I was banned last year.

Spoiler:

i mean sure, if i'm scum i probably would, but if i' town (and i was town!) it meant to me that if you were town it would be a loss (and it was) since i:

- would have a very, very, very hard time recognizing town-you
- would have no oppurtunity to change your mind on scum-me, since you wouldnt let me

And being unable to do anything about that for like two weeks since you wouldnt even entertain what i had to say was more than a little bit frustrating.

I had ro get alyssa to ask my questions for me to get you to even acknowledge what i had to say at some point. I find this to be against the spirit of the game, and just unpleasant to play with, and its not something i want to do again

I also *hate* being strongarmed into voting

I also found these sorts of posts to be inceredibly distasteful, dismissive, mocking, and rude. It was pissing me off, and other people told you that it was unpleasant, and you continued:

Scumcase against me: I pushed catboi over enchant


i've seen better scumcases in newbies, and the players presenting this have BoP :)

i do love when scum tell on themselves.

You're frustrating me greatly rn

And that's a gross reduction of what i've been saying

I'm sorry that your scum tricks don't work against my slot - I sympathize since in my recent completed games I had to deal with a few slots that didn't fall for some of my tricks myself. But remember, you just need to convince *2 townies* and catboi is already convinced mostly so gl gl :)

Note - not a shred of analysis of why. Just repeating "awful" multiple times.

This is not a player trying to solve my alignment. This is a player trying to gaslight the other players into believing their narrative.

Note - not a shred of analysis of why. Just repeating 'skitter is scim' multiple times

This is not a player trying to solve my aligbment. This is a player trying to gaslight the other players into believing their narrative

~

I can throw this right back at you, stop acting all holier than thou like you've got a great scumcase on me that's more than just 'skitter is scum' because that's apparently conveninwnt for you to push rn

You're ignoring that i've already laid out my issues with your play today (which you've never addressed), and are curiouslu not calling dats or catboi scum for making the same exact points as me, for no reason other than it doesnt fit your agenda apparently

This reads like baseless nonsense

Please keep instigating me - I've lacked the WIM to go through your ISO and case you for a while and it's been itching at me. :lol:

The scumcase is more of things you *lack* in your posts which is hard to quanitfy - something players who aren't straight up garbage as scum are able to do, lie by omission - and my main case is that your ISO *lacks* analysis and critical thinking that you display as town. I have no issues with my play and you know very well I'm well within my townrange (:

Also - I do please invite you to give proof of catboi and datisi making the same posts as you. (meanwhile I am seeing what alyssa is seeing now from datisi). Catboi is approaching this with honesty and has ceded lack of confidence after I provided counterevidence(he won't argue back and forth with me beacuse last time we were both town and I tried to argue myself into why I was town he just kinda dug himself deeper into the conclusion I was scum rofl). You can claim something different is the same by removing nuance and critical thought but it won't change reality <3

awe need to kill me before night kill analysis starts pointing against me and towards you, cute <3

remember when skitter said that if the vig is confirmed scum then that means I slipped non-TMI? good times ;)

i remember things people say dw

*deep breath*

*deep breath*

*deep breath*

hey i did this exact type of performative nonsense in my last scum game hahah


its funny how we have similarities in our scumgames i like it.

[skitter30]

I mean i didnt like it either but at that point i was kinda past caring

[skitter30]

Its those posts in particular that crossed the line for me. Everything else, while unpleasant, i consider within the realm of the game

[skitter30]

Subject: open 841: lime cellar (finishid game)

this is possibly a clue for anyone who remembers or can be bothered to look it up but

Spoiler:

skitter should really remember nomx3's C9++

also despite how towny we were I'm lowkey shocked that our slot didn't get limmed

I actually did >.>
But was just not able to concentrate enuf just then to commit

Pooky was fun reading u in the dead pt

[skitter30]

I mean it was p immediately and obviously a garbage claim, the fact that you kinda disappeared like right afterwards tho meant i couldnt really talk to u abt it, and then i became busy irl, and since its elo and i hate commiting in elo at that point i started doubting and being uncertain if i was certain enuf to bet the game on it

[skitter30]

Subject: open 841: moddy thread (game over)

i am becoming more and more Concerned with pooky, ss, and catboi tbh

4 guys hollering and jumping off their seats in a theater image x10

Oh damn forgot abt that, nice

[skitter30]

Prism this was a shitshow on about 13 different levels, yes

[skitter30]

You didnt play like garbage imo. You didnt have great reads necessarily, but that's not at all rhe same thing

[skitter30]

Also at some point i was thinking ... who even brought up the n3 vig thing since it instilled so much fear yet nobody actually thought it was a thing, so maybe scum were saying that just to make things confusing

And i think it was both catboi and ss

And dismissed the thought as 'well they're probably not both scum'

I think my lesson at this point is if there's possibly *anything* screw-y going on mechnaics wise, ss is probablh just scum >.>
(That pyp where scum no killed, radio buzz with the phantom friendly neighbor, here, etc)

[skitter30]

I think in the last 2 days or so you guys correctly capitalized on the pieces of the game town left over

That's basically how I feel abt this endgame

~
Ok i think i'm done and have said everything that i needed/wanted to

[skitter30]

Eh last thing: should have also stuck to my guns when you were scumreading me ~day2 after slaughterhouse, that really was v hard to swallow that you actualky believed in your scumread of me

@catboi

[skitter30]

Ah could be!

[skitter30]

No, it absolutely wont, and yes, tnat burned *quite* a lot of trust going forward