LOST (Game Over)

[Dancing Puppets]

10 words or less is my motto.
They showed they shaded you after you voted Taly the first time.
Repeatedly.
So you were even factually incorrect.
They can sue you for not properly confirming the authenticity of your remarks you know.
You're going to inaccuracy jail.

Bell have you seriously considered doing stand up for a living?

[Dancing Puppets]

DNA/C & G, what are your current reads?

[Dancing Puppets]

Willing to go enchant. Less likely with math

Still agree with gamma hydra town.

Bbl

Do you have any other reads? What is your current read on Taly? Because you voted them before the gladiate but now have no read on them at all?

[Dancing Puppets]

C and g too. In my head I get hung up on only one of them or math can be scum but that's not mechanicalky true is it

I don't know. I think it would be weird for Math AND C&G to be scum and be in a neighbourhood. Like, that literally makes no sense at all.

they might not be neighbors at all

Corwin never made any reference to DNA, did they? But Math did.

Idk, Ircher usually keeps making and updating readslists although RH9 doesn’t seem too different. The thing is that unlike in me v Titus, I don’t actually hate their reads. I don’t really see an agenda, so eh?

[Dancing Puppets]

Crazy theory.

I wonder if some of the neighbourhoods do consist of T+S and scum know this. Therefore, two scum decided to 'create a neighbourhood' in the hope that if one of them flips then the other person in their neighbourhood is cleared as town.

Is that too tin-foily?

That's what I was trying to say earlier. I don't think all the neighbors are just town, no, otherwise what's the point of masons.

They were probably selected at random, so there’s no reason they absolutely couldn’t be but with the mason mech, there’s also no good reason to auto tr all of them either. Hoods aren’t masonries.

So it’s possible they’re all town but it would also be extremely silly to treat them as masonries.

[Dancing Puppets]

What would be the benefit of a fake posy restrictions though? Unless both the neighbors are scum, which feels pretty odd.

P-edit that makes a bit more sense. I dunno what me and you are doing this Game, I feel like I disagree with you, you get aggy at me and then we end up agreeing.

I get you the benefit is lost on me too...but maybe it was just a plan to get by as a lurker day 1 with a built in excuse...no one could predict we'd put up 300 pages.

I just think with how inconsistent they've been with the post restriction. Signatures don't count. Not even noticing they went over 100 words (or maybe they thought no one would count idk). Then they didn't know what the punishment was for going over 100 words. Then finally they said the Mod told them "close enough". I just think it was a plan gone wrong for reasons some within their control and some without their control, and that's why we struggle to think "why?"

And like, I'll be honest, and maybe this is confirm bias...I don't think their content through Math on Day 1 or their content now on Day 2 is all that compelling that makes me want to disregard all the weirdness because they look town.

Also if we accept their are scum in the neighbors...I think DNA is more likely than the Math slot.

I like this post. I think there isn’t any particularly compelling reason to either tr all the hoods or assume there absolutely has to be scum in them either. I think we should probably treat each slot individually.

I think their hood is probably real though. I just don’t understand why DNA is doing whatever they are. I could still see them az lhf town but I can see that there isn’t a huge difference in their posting today, which you’d expect from a d1 post restriction. But this why we really should wait for Math replace in because I think that’s the only way we’re going to get answers on this.

[Dancing Puppets]

? I don't feel like I said or thought that? And I agree, I need to more critical of Luke's conclusions.

My scum reads are boring - there's at least one scum in Johnny/mala/enchant. I think best bird is just flat scum. I'm trying not to scum read professor drapion. Math could be scum. I guess my spicier scum reads are that I wouldn't be surprised if oth was scum. Occasionally I waver on pooky:, but they are probably town.

I could do BB, he has never wrongly sr me, so that was a huge red flag for me. OtH is locktown. I will hard veto any wagon on them.

Mala really isn’t doing anything, just seems to be popping in every so often. It’s really hard to tell because it’s a large though and I’m finding this setup overwhelming, which is why I much prefer smaller games. I probably wouldn’t even have signed up if hydras weren’t allowed.

I have no clue on Johnny. Enchant? Idk?

[Dancing Puppets]

C and g too. In my head I get hung up on only one of them or math can be scum but that's not mechanicalky true is it

I’m guessing the hoods were completely randomized, so it’s different than say Koba’s Neighbour game where the setup actually necessitated that there were at least two tvs hoods and 0 svs hoods. so I think any combination could be possible including fake hoods but get the impression from Math’s posting that isn’t the case here but then it’s also really strange that corwin never said anything but I think Math replacement should hopefully resolve all of this.

[Dancing Puppets]

I hope they have a GoT version of this.

[Dancing Puppets]

I didn't hate bbts 'one scum in leaders', and I don't have a huge grasp on oth. Tbf I'd kinda put you in there as one of the loudest voices, but I do townread you.

Mala's 'dont fucking wagon me' just felt really .... displaced.
I feel like Johnny has actually done stuff but I literally don't remember then at all.

Enchant is mostly a meta read.

For now I'm happy with my vote but I could go any of those three happily. I know rad talked about lhf but I also don't think we should give questionable slots a pass, the same way that we shouldn't give 'leaders' a pass.

P-edit that's not the only reason I scum read the slot though. Some input from the replacement would be great however

I just get the sense that Mala isn’t really trying to solve, just pop every so often.

[Dancing Puppets]

C and g too. In my head I get hung up on only one of them or math can be scum but that's not mechanicalky true is it

I don't know. I think it would be weird for Math AND C&G to be scum and be in a neighbourhood. Like, that literally makes no sense at all.

I am of the opinion that all neighborhoods were determined before alignment. Every single neighbor hood that has claimed their flavor has made sense based on flavor.

Sun/Jin are a married couple. Rose/Bernard are a married couple. Boone/Shannon are Brother/Sister.

The mod said that the alignment for flavor was randomized. If Sun and Jin were both randomized into scum, I think that they would have ended up in a hood together.

I think we’re Palo/Niki but have to check. I have no clue who they are though.

[Dancing Puppets]

@ Luke, I said about dp to...dp. I don't think the trio is right but the idea is.

Palo and Nikki worked together to steal diamonds and killed each other, possibly?

Oh cool.

[Dancing Puppets]

@ Luke, I said about dp to...dp. I don't think the trio is right but the idea is.

Palo and Nikki worked together to steal diamonds and killed each other, possibly?

Oh cool.

They only kinda killed each other. They temporarily paralyzed one another, but they were both still alive. And then the rest of the cast unknowingly buried them alive

It was a fucked up way to go.

They were also a couple.

Ah well, I’m a total sucker for true romance.

[Dancing Puppets]

Thought about it more, and I 100% prefer you target dunn over night

+1

I think cops probably don’t get their resuits if they die.

[Dancing Puppets]

whats the point of targetting dunn

if you target frog at least you will get a result or something

Ask STD if that’s the case. I thought cops don’t get results if they die the same night?

[Dancing Puppets]

That's what scum would WANT us to think

Then ask the mod, so theirs no room for doubt. It only takes one pm to clarify that.

[Dancing Puppets]

That's what scum would WANT us to think

Then ask the mod, so theirs no room for doubt. It only takes one pm to clarify that.

I just asked, so we will find out if Frogs would have any results or not.

[Dancing Puppets]

I wonder if it's legal to ask Penguin questions about Cephrir that Penguin would only know if Penguin could talk to Cephrir

Why wouldn’t it be? It was in Heroes Wanted.

[Dancing Puppets]

So apparently DNA is right and dying did not prevent any actions from receiving results. Killing happens at the end of the night.

[Dancing Puppets]

Spoiler:

Why?

I want to know his role. If he was a friendly neighbor like everyone thought, I want to know who he targeted. Since no one claimed getting it.

I am more invested in that then a single role cop result, especially because when we had the discussion on who he would target, people suggested Dunn

They should target me as a backup in case I get role blocked.

Now is the time for any last minute suggestions.

And by suggestions I mean mainly coming from Dunnstral since they're here and seem intelligent.

He did not say that he was definitly doing that, but he did seem open to following dunn's lead there.


I am also more inclined to give weight to Dunn's reads over Frogs.

Appreciate your desire and your thoughts on the weight of his reads...Dunn and I don't gel well so I'm not inclined to add him absent a very good reason which has not been presented.

Is it really so bad, that you too can’t come together for the sake of a game? Like, if Frogs is seriously the better option, then of course fine but if not, I would hope that the two of you can rise beyond whatever differences for the sake of the game, no?

[Dancing Puppets]

Spoiler:

Alright town let's gooooo!

We've got some great options here to discuss tonight!

First up we've got our most popular target in both Day 1 and Day 2. Mathblade!!

Mathblade was a replacement for Corwin. Both have felt kinda scummy, kinda not at various points. Math pushed hard to get town to "just talk to each other" which seems like a pretty noble thing indeed (cool!) if it wasn't also to defend against people just straight voting for him for reading him as scum (bummer...)!

Here in town we've got people with all sorts of meta reads on him. He came in pretty slow and steady and people meta read him as scum for it, so then he ramped things up and different (maybe!) people read him scum for it! Math's meta has very conveniently settled into the "math is scum if he's in the game" territory.

Math was a neighbor to C&G and we can't quite tell what was a lie and what was the truth coming from this smooth talker. He's the Sun to C&G's Jin and supposedly Corwin was posting for both of them, like in the show (cool!), just not in any way that we can verify (bummer...). It's probably the truth, we just don't realize it (Yeeesss)!

Hurry and vote today for Mathblade before his slot gets replaced with someone who makes you question your reality, or if flipping the slot sounds fun to you!

Next up we've got... BlueBloodedToffee!

BBT was the most excited person to get this game together. I bet most of you are in here because he messaged you in some way to get you to join! Siiiick. He also likes to skip out for long periods of time, complain about how much has happened since he last visited, and then proceed to spam page tops more effectively than anyone! Of his 292 posts, approximately 276 of them are pagetops! KING!

BBT is notoriously difficult to read with masterful blending of town and scum play styles, or in other words, both his town and scum play are incredibly scummy! Which one is he this time?? Don't bother with that meta nonsense, says his signature, cause BBT screams scum no matter what so just stop it don't bother!!

BBT has been especially good at naked votes this game, where he strips hi... I mean, where he votes for someone with no specified reason. This is a new term for me cause I'm a newbie and I love sharing my newbie status with people. Cool!

BBT loves VCA unless your VCA points to him, in which case it's absolute shit and you should feel embarassed for it wtf is wrong with you? Level 0.

BBT is a great counter wagon to just about anyone. If you see a wagon gaining momentum and you want to stop it, just vote for BBT. BOOM instant competing 3-6 person BBT wagon!

Next we have... Cytosine and Guanine aka C&G aka CaG aka cg aka DNA?? aka Jin

C&G could only speak up to 100 words during day 1. This is a legit restriction that the mod gave them. I bet you can't guess what the penalty is if you go over. Can you? Can you guess it? I mean not that you'd want to guess it, you could just ask the mod, but why would you do that? And why would their neighbor ask about it? Booooring. Also fuck the mod, let's go over 100 words anyway. It's not like we have a neighbor who could literally "translate" to the rest of town like in the show Lost that this restriction seems based on. Nah that's stupid just hit 103 words and give the mod the middle finger and let's move onto our next and last entry...

Malcolm!

Malcolm is currently writing an action horror novel staring Rad (that's me!). Follow Rad's character as the narrator describes in excrutiating details all the scummy shit only someone like Rad could pull off. There's no move Rad makes that isn't precicely calculated with the singular goal of town muuurrrdeerrrr.

Malcolm has also recently unlocked the "fastest 3 votes" achievement. Congrats! Luke will be giving out this award later in your neighborhood where you can defend Rad's town creds back and forth before you realize he's not just a character in your spy romance novel, he's... puurrree eeeviiiillll!

I'll just wait here and vote with town when town's ready so let's go town, let's vote out the scum!

Can I vote this post for scummie?



You, Pooky and Bell need to go on the road with your comsdy troupe. I’d definitely pay money for that.

[Dancing Puppets]

I love Rad. Like romantically.

BBT loves VCA unless your VCA points to him, in which case it's absolute shit and you should feel embarassed for it wtf is wrong with you? Level 0.

The funniest part, imo.

lmmfaooooo

[Dancing Puppets]

I’m not interested in voting DNA or MT today.

Wrt DNA: it sounds like town!Ircher to me and RH9 doesn’t really sound any different from HDP. Don’t really see the issue with MT but think RAD is town. Humour is also often a towntell, since scum tend to be very serious.

I still would really prefer to wait for the replacement, do don’t understand why we need to rush this?

[Dancing Puppets]

vote bella

I’d join you on that but Math probably goes over today.

I think you completely misread that.

[Dancing Puppets]

The comedy of this game just keeps on coming.

[Dancing Puppets]

Spoiler:

[Dancing Puppets]

If Math flips wolf you look bad.

Why?

[Dancing Puppets]

maybe enchant and dancing puppets can actually do something worthwhile as welll....maybe

Excuse me? I think I’ve done a helluva lot more than you this game?

[Dancing Puppets]

which dead person am i bringing to the sixth sense discussion tonight?

vote gentoo for frogster or macaroni for dunn

I don’t really have a preference. Maybe Frogs’ more useful because role cop?

[Dancing Puppets]

I would much rather hear from Dunn over Frogster from a reads standpoint, unless you really think that it's worth hearing Frogster's result.

If Frogs rolecopped Mala, could be interesting because she fakeclaimed medium.

[Dancing Puppets]

I'm struggling to keep up. Based on votes, I want BBT but Msth slot may need to be limmed for thread health.

~Titus

[Dancing Puppets]

Flavor

Vote Count 2.3

5 Mathblade (Lukewarm, Bell, Taly, RCEnigma, PookyTheMagicalBear)
4 Bluebloodedtoffee (Mathblade, Roden, Mislim Bait, Cat Scratch Fever)

3 Cytosine and Guanine (Rad, BlueBloodedToffee, T-Bone)

1 Enchant (Dancing Puppets)
1 Bellaphant (ProfessorDrapion)
1 Dancing Puppets (Enchant)

Not Voting (Bellaphant, butterchurn, Best Bird, JohnnyFarrar, Malakittens, MalcolmTucker, Cytosine and Guanine, Off the Hook)

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-30 19:22:50)

Mod Notes

butterchurn replaces Dwlee99
Replacing Mathblade
Taly V/LA

I hope Math flips scum here because we didn’t need to rush this.

[Dancing Puppets]

It's not true? Like I said I don't have a VC but there were definitely four wagons that were not vanity.

I’m pretty sure it was you that started that wagon or something or at least I just remember like someone voting them and only like 2 other players joining for some reason.

I don't know why you were trying to misrepresent Bella here. There were several votes on DNA, so Bella was on a viable wagon.

I think Drap is confibiased on Bella.

[Dancing Puppets]

It's not true? Like I said I don't have a VC but there were definitely four wagons that were not vanity.

I’m pretty sure it was you that started that wagon or something or at least I just remember like someone voting them and only like 2 other players joining for some reason.

I don't know why you were trying to misrepresent Bella here. There were several votes on DNA, so Bella was on a viable wagon.

I think Drap is confibiased on Bella.

I just think he's scum? Maybe protecting scum DNA but I might be projecting.

No, I think he really believes his reads.

[Dancing Puppets]

DP, what was the point of 9541?

Can you ask questions that aren’t self-evident? Like I think it’s obvious.

[Dancing Puppets]

It's not true? Like I said I don't have a VC but there were definitely four wagons that were not vanity.

I’m pretty sure it was you that started that wagon or something or at least I just remember like someone voting them and only like 2 other players joining for some reason.

I don't know why you were trying to misrepresent Bella here. There were several votes on DNA, so Bella was on a viable wagon.

I think Drap is confibiased on Bella.

I just think he's scum? Maybe protecting scum DNA but I might be projecting.

I think DNA is town because I played with scum!Ircher before.

[Dancing Puppets]

Titus head VLA this weekend

~Titus

[Dancing Puppets]

We killed Math I guess?

I really hope he flips scum. Would hate to go through another day with no scum flip.

[Dancing Puppets]

He’s already hammered.

[Dancing Puppets]

you can go fuck yourselves

~GE

Gamma, they’re trolling you.

[Dancing Puppets]

... pooky literally told you that we were joking.

This is 0% bullying :/

Gamma doesn’t get these kinds of jokes. During FFIV, there was a mech that locked the scium pt, so GIF posted in our hydra chat that he was locking that too, as a joke and Gamma got extremely pissed about it until I told him GIF was trolling us with that.

[Dancing Puppets]

wtf is this about "scum in that game too"
it's not about alignment, it's about it feeling like you're using me or my friends as a punchline/punching bag

~GE

No one is doing that. It’s just friendly teasing, there’s no malice in any of it.

[Dancing Puppets]

I seriously doubt marci would have been offended by any of this dialogue...

I'm gonna stop engaging with you now.

I wouldn’t be either but I can recognize humour that is meant as playful bantering, Gamma cannot.

[Dancing Puppets]

whatever, y'all are too far up your own asses to actually give me any actual respect.

~GE

*hugs*

They were teasing but I agree should have stopped once it was clear you were upset.

[Dancing Puppets]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee
~Cytosine

I think that train already left the station.

[Dancing Puppets]

Bell has died!

Bell was...

Spoiler:

town

[/spoiler]

Day 3 begins and ends in (expired on 2022-08-05 20:52:15)
[/b]

[Dancing Puppets]

Tbh C&G is prob town.

Math was probably a modified pr with a neighbor such as a RB’r or something like that.

I lowkey need to see how this wagon went down and I know marh was on the block d1

I wish cephrir went with his gut bc that would have helped miles

+1

Since Corwin was pushing you, it means my read on you was probably wrong and probably BBT as well.

[Dancing Puppets]

Luke I will give you one chance at redeeming yourself after whiffing on mathblade who might be the easiest scum to catch in this game

I don’t feel even remotely stupid after that flip.

[Dancing Puppets]

VOTE: Lukewarm

*hugs*

@Pooky, you’re going to say because of this?

[Dancing Puppets]

VOTE: Lukewarm

*hugs*

@Pooky, you’re going to say because of this?

No that has to be wrong because that’s an early post and I have everything set to descending.

[Dancing Puppets]

ATTENTION I GOT A POTENTIAL VERY LIKELY RED CHECK ON BELLA.

I WANT BELLA’S FULL CLAIM AND ACTIONS NOW!

VOTE: Bella

I’m not lying, I hard claim Investigative role.

Wow.

[Dancing Puppets]

I have red check on ProfessorDrapion.

I am lying, i hardclaim nothing.

[Dancing Puppets]

I'm about to eat humble pie if Bella is also scum RIP

+1

Me too.

[Dancing Puppets]

Dancing is mafia.

Read my iso and the game. I posted a bunch of quotes yesterday to prove that your push on me was bs, so either you’re scum or you suffer from some kind of selective amnesia. Which is it?

[Dancing Puppets]

Can someone say what's under spoiler, i am bad on understanding anything which have more than 50 words.

I’m saying that you’re reasoning for sr us is false. If you read those quotes, you will notice that I initially believed your IC fakeclaim and even went so far as to pm the mods about it. Why would I even bother doing that in a game with only alignment flips?

It was only then that I sussed you for your Taly vote.

Ah.

Hm.........................................................

I broke help

[Dancing Puppets]

You know it’s funny because both Bell and Bella were in my PoE.
One flipped town and the other is gonna flip Wolf.

Wolf PoE:
Bellaphant - Almost Outed Wolf via Mechanical/Role.
T-Bone
Bell - Flipped Town
Math - Flipped Wolf
CSF
Enchant

I still think you’re wrong about CSF. I recently finished a game with scum!CSF and she siunded really wooden compared to this game. I’d believe it about Enchant though.

[Dancing Puppets]

I have excuse.

I forgot about it.

Why did you decide that scum was in people who defended Taly? It just looks like you’re looking for really silly reasons to push us.

[Dancing Puppets]

What does it mean to sound wooden? I'm not grasping the concept though I've heard it used a few times now.

She just made really superficial noncommittal type of reads and analysis.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=33903

[Dancing Puppets]

Ima townie brownie!

Also Johnny hard defended taly iirc

Yeah but who says Taly is wolf?
Especially when Bella was the person who lead the Taly wagon if I remember correctly or at least started it up.

Taly’s super obvtown. But yeah thanks for proving my point.

[Dancing Puppets]

I was just speaking to enchants theory that a scum was hard defending taly.

It was bell who started the taly wagon day 1

It’s obviously not a good metric.

[Dancing Puppets]

We just gonna ignore how hedgy DP were with Math yesterday and how they tried to run me up to counter him?

Cool. Cool.

It’s not “hedgey” to want to wait for a replacement and we were voting Enchant but sure continue to misrep my posting.

[Dancing Puppets]

Masons need to step the fuck up as well. You guys are being left alive over other players and you're pretty much confirmed town.

Scum clearly not worried about BB's power either...

And both Luke and Pooky are still alive. Awesome stuff.

I was thinking about that, maybe they’re not worried about who he talked to?

Yeah, I’m surprised it was Bell who died, I thought one of the masons, BB or maybe Pooky.

[Dancing Puppets]

If y'all insist for the damn spreadsheet... (honest question, can you post a spreadsheet?)

Town:
Corwinoid
Rad
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
--
JohnnyFarrar
T-Bone
--

Null

Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Taly Toogeloo
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Galron
Cephrir
Roden
Dwlee99
Klick
Dunnstral
Lukewarm
PenguinPower
Bellaphant

--
BlueBloodedToffee
The toad

Frogsterking
Enchant
Bell
--
Scum
Malakittens

Annoying me on a personal level for pushing me do this
Cat Scratch Fever humaneatingmonkey

Mala spewed town from this.

[Dancing Puppets]

I moved off Math because they were getting replaced and my vote was sat on an idle slot.

You need to understand this game FMPOV. I have been getting scum read/pushed from a lot of different directions. It's extremely difficult for me to keep my focus in one place and even maintain consistent reads at some points of the game.

Once DP started pushing me and Mislim Bait, they took my attention away from Math.

I was literally the counter wagon to Math as well so? Can we stop this?

Wow, how can you be this much of a hypocrite to shade me for wanting to wait for Math replacement ?

[Dancing Puppets]

I'm like 80% sure Math is town and BBT is scum. Dunn was shot N1. He was the first voter on BBT. Math has a habit of rubbing people the wrong way. He's easy to provoke. The other voter on BBT is a mason.

Flipping BBT also completely reveals the gamestate D1.

Will read up later.

~Titus

DP is town.

Sure.

We are so you can stop trying to push our miselim.

[Dancing Puppets]

CSF is prob scum and Johnny is town if Bella is scum.

Why is that?

Which part?

All of it. Did you use the same brilliant logic here as you did on us?

[Dancing Puppets]

Like, that shows some hyper awareness of what the Corwin slot has or hasn't done.

I'm literally positing that Johnny and Corwin are scum together based on their interactions, so not a big surprise I hope!

Johnny does seem to be off this game, so if there is a scum Taly defender, that would be my guess.

[Dancing Puppets]

Dp, what should i do?

How should I know? I’m torn because of Drap’s claim which doesn’t fit my read of you. I’m going to guess that you probably visited Bell, because otherwise, Drap would have a guaranteed guilty on you.

I think you probably have to claim, because if you don’t, you’re pretty much guaranteed to be today’s elim.

Since I have no idea what your role actually is, I don’t know what else to tell you. Sorry.

I’m so lost in this game, I’m probably the last person to give that kind of advice anyway. All I know is I’ve been hard tr you all game and Drap claims to have some type of guilty but not 100%.

So I have no idea what to make of that.

[Dancing Puppets]

We just gonna ignore how hedgy DP were with Math yesterday and how they tried to run me up to counter him?

Cool. Cool.

It’s not “hedgey” to want to wait for a replacement and we were voting Enchant but sure continue to misrep my posting.

It is hedgy for both heads to be reading Math differently and flip flopping on him while pushing other elims though.

The first part is nonsence, you want to know why?

Because we’re a hydra.

I’m really getting fed up with you cherry picking our ISO. I didn’t want to rush the day and wanted to wait for Math replacement. Titus is also Math’s sister as well but why am I wasting my time when you’re clearly not interested in listening to anything I have to say anyway?

[Dancing Puppets]

Isn't that a convenient excuse if you're scum? And further reasoning for why you show public displays of dissonance. Nobody can question it.

Or maybe it’s because we weren’t mindmelding on reads? Why aren’t you even considering that?

[Dancing Puppets]

Im concerned about claiming because my role is good for town, but I will if it's consensus because I think there should be more than one of me.
@luke, what do you want me to do?

With drop hard claiming against you, you don’t really have a choice. The alternative is that you get elimmed without a claim or explanation.

+1

[Dancing Puppets]

Isn't that a convenient excuse if you're scum? And further reasoning for why you show public displays of dissonance. Nobody can question it.

Or maybe it’s because we weren’t mindmelding on reads? Why aren’t you even considering that?

Also no hydra has been more dissonant than OtH and they’re so bleeding obvtown it hurts. It’s ironically hysterical to me that you’re the one who has the audacity of accusing others of 0 level thinking.

[Dancing Puppets]

I mean, if you disagree you have a PT for that sort of shit no?

What do you gain, as town, by pubicly displaying dissonance? As opposed to keeping the read in the PT until it's agreed?

You obviously have never hydra’d with someone with different reads. Because that’s not how I fucking play. Either I mindmeld with my hydra partner or I don’t.

You can also check out Cheeky Wings - my hydra with Cheeky Teeky in Anything uPick, if you’re going to continue to beat this pointless horse to death.

[Dancing Puppets]

We have to flip you regardless! So it only matters in the off chance you flip town despite the guilty claim.

I think we should wait for the claim and go from there.

[Dancing Puppets]

I mean, if you disagree you have a PT for that sort of shit no?

What do you gain, as town, by pubicly displaying dissonance? As opposed to keeping the read in the PT until it's agreed?

By the same token, do you not think a scum hydra would perhaps be more careful/aware of wanting to appear coherent to avoid suspicion?

It’s a silly implication BBT is making regardless. Both of us have very strong opinions, so this so-called “public display of dissonance” is a total laugh riot.

I have had hydras where both heads have been more in sync and our reads meshed pretty well like Flea in Chromavalon and I have been in hydras where we were on completely different pages. Cheeky Wings would be a terrific example of that. We weren’t mindmelding on practically anything. She would vote my trs and even hammered a townie before I could get online to stop it. Marci correctly sr Math and Gamma didn’t, so when hydra heads disagree, they’re very likely to voice that publicly.

[Dancing Puppets]

I'm not saying they're scum for dissonance. I'm saying it's a good thing for scum to fall back on in general when it comes to reads. I suppose it's more a discussion for post game.

I’m not making the argument that we should be tr for dissonance. I’m saying that’s not a good reason to sr us. In the future, I probably won’t be putting a lot of stock in Titus’ Math read if I disagree, since this is the second time that I’m aware of anyway, that she’s been wrong on him.

I went back and forth on Math and probably lost confidence after Frogs’. flip. I also believe that Math was telling the truth about being sick and I probably would have correctly sr him if it hadn’t have been for that.

[Dancing Puppets]

I’ll say that math has blatant tells as scum that are easy to pick out if you have played with them but I won’t hold it against people that haven’t.

Although I do want to dive deeper into the slots that defended them day 1.

Yeah but I’ve never before played with sick Math, otherwise I would definitely have sr him for his hedgeyness during the gladiate for example but I also thought his being ill could account for that, which is why I wanted to wait for the replacement.

[Dancing Puppets]

Nancy talk to me about OTH because they have been sliding in my reads since day 1.

Well, take Gamma’s outburst at the end of d2 for example, where Gamma clearly misread Luke’s and Pooky’s trolling of Marci. Why does scum!Gamma ever flip out like that if Math flips scum? Gamma was clearly worried that they would get run up in the event of a Math townflip.

Gamma is pretty much incapable of faking that level of emotion. OtH is NEVER scum here.

[Dancing Puppets]

I'm a doc, hence I think there must be two from flavour, I was on rad n1 then bell.

Juliet. I assume there's a jack.

@pooky, they felt strong town. I liked their reads. The masons seemed no point, I thought bb was limited utility, it was Luke or bell for me and I assumed if another doc then prolly on other obv! town

But Bell died despite that, so what are your theories on that?

I’m torn because both heads have been hard tr you all game but Idk why scum!you claims doc on dead town. So if you’re town, it would either mean scum has a roleblock, strongman or Bell was aesetic. Idk.

But unfortunately this isn’t clearing either. \_0_/

[Dancing Puppets]

Nancy talk to me about OTH because they have been sliding in my reads since day 1.

Well, take Gamma’s outburst at the end of d2 for example, where Gamma clearly misread Luke’s and Pooky’s trolling of Marci. Why does scum!Gamma ever flip out like that if Math flips scum? Gamma was clearly worried that they would get run up in the event of a Math townflip.

Gamma is pretty much incapable of faking that level of emotion. OtH is NEVER scum here.

Furtive huh I’ll just say I have been burned by limiting what I think gammas scumrange is before.

I bet the game on OtH being town. ISO Marci in both HDP, Inviticus and contrast it with OMB and this game. I also strongly tr Taly. Read gladiate again. Math clearly didn’t care whether Taly or Ceph got whacked.

[Dancing Puppets]

I'm a doc, hence I think there must be two from flavour, I was on rad n1 then bell.

Juliet. I assume there's a jack.

@pooky, they felt strong town. I liked their reads. The masons seemed no point, I thought bb was limited utility, it was Luke or bell for me and I assumed if another doc then prolly on other obv! town

But Bell died despite that, so what are your theories on that?

I’m torn because both heads have been hard tr you all game but Idk why scum!you claims doc on dead town. So if you’re town, it would either mean scum has a roleblock, strongman or Bell was aesetic. Idk.

But unfortunately this isn’t clearing either. \_0_/

It would have to be strongman because they did visit Bell.

So roleblock is out of the question. Macho or aesetic modifiers could also explain it. There’s also that I didn’t expect Bell to be the nk > massons, BB, Pooky.

Fwiw, Klick hard tr Bella in our pt and MB can attest to that.

[Dancing Puppets]

I was thinking it wouldn’t be possible for drap to see Bella visit bell and NOT see the killer visit as well.

@Drap are you tracker or watcher?

[Dancing Puppets]

VOTE: RCEnigma

Vote this.

No, I think RCE’s probably town because I recently played a game with scum!Toad and he was very different here.

[Dancing Puppets]

RCE flipping wolf confirms Johnny as Town IMO.


Good way to clear Johnny here IMO.

I don’t tr Johnny, why do you?

[Dancing Puppets]

I think I also might have saved a wolf.
I’m slowly starting to question my TR on Taly.


@Taly do more!

Taly hasn’t been posting anywhere onsite for days, so don’t expect that to happen. I think that slot’s probably getting replaced.

Which is 100% nai for Taly but their play is typical townplay for them.

[Dancing Puppets]

Although actually, now that I think about it, scum using a strongman on Bell when there are so many potential options for a Doc to save doesn't really make sense.

Bella's play doesn't feel like scum though?

Okay, I think you may be town now. What is your read on Johnny?

[Dancing Puppets]

Bella's play doesn't feel like scum though?

yea im sure when bella rolls scum she puts on a top hat and her scum mustache and begins cackling in true evil doer manner

You were certain on Frogs’ scum, so I’m not sheeping you just because of Math, unless Drap is literally watcher. If tracker it doesn’t confirm Bella as Bell’s killer.

[Dancing Puppets]

cuz bell doesnt even make sense as a nightkill choice

Why not? He’s not the most likely kill but he was widely tr. I could also see Bell nk as trying to frame Taly.

[Dancing Puppets]

scum probly think the doctor will 50/50 between the claimed masons or some shit

theres no reason for them to think doctor will protect bell of all people in a 24p

Klick hard tr Bella and he’s her husband and you said yourself Klick is town.

[Dancing Puppets]

Bella's play doesn't feel like scum though?

yea im sure when bella rolls scum she puts on a top hat and her scum mustache and begins cackling in true evil doer manner

You were certain on Frogs’ scum, so I’m not sheeping you just because of Math, unless Drap is literally watcher. If tracker it doesn’t confirm Bella as Bell’s killer.

drap literally tracked bella to the kill and she claimed to be doctor

Tracked not watched. Someone else could have also visited Bell. Why does scum!Bella claim doc here? Like that’s scum suicide.

[Dancing Puppets]

scum probly think the doctor will 50/50 between the claimed masons or some shit

theres no reason for them to think doctor will protect bell of all people in a 24p

Klick hard tr Bella and he’s her husband and you said yourself Klick is town.

just cuz klick is town doesn't mean his read on bella is right

titus hard TR mathblade and she's literally his twin sister and she was wrong.

The obvious main difference here is that Math was objectively scummy by play and Bella isn’t. Also, it was literally one of Klick’s earliest posts in our pt.

[Dancing Puppets]

Tracked not watched. Someone else could have also visited Bell. Why does scum!Bella claim doc here? Like that’s scum suicide.

what else is she supposed to claim?

also it's clearly not "scum suicide" since people are not voting for her because of the claim

in fact if you get your way and she lives today then it would be pretty much the opposite of scum suicide!

She claimed doc, don’t you think scum!Bella would come up with a much better fakeclaim? And wrt to your Titus’ Math argument, Klick hard tr her out of the gate. She was his first confident tr.

[Dancing Puppets]

Masons plus BB at the very least needed to be considered.

The widely town read slots are additional as they can't all be scum (I guess they CAN but it's highly unlikely). So given there are so many options for a Doc, why strongman so early?

Bella's play doesn't feel like scum though?

yea im sure when bella rolls scum she puts on a top hat and her scum mustache and begins cackling in true evil doer manner

You were certain on Frogs’ scum, so I’m not sheeping you just because of Math, unless Drap is literally watcher. If tracker it doesn’t confirm Bella as Bell’s killer.

drap literally tracked bella to the kill and she claimed to be doctor

Tracked not watched. Someone else could have also visited Bell. Why does scum!Bella claim doc here? Like that’s scum suicide.

What would scum!Bella claim here instead?

Okay fair point, I have no idea but I also don’t know why Bella kills Bell here either.

[Dancing Puppets]

scum probly think the doctor will 50/50 between the claimed masons or some shit

theres no reason for them to think doctor will protect bell of all people in a 24p

Klick hard tr Bella and he’s her husband and you said yourself Klick is town.

just cuz klick is town doesn't mean his read on bella is right

titus hard TR mathblade and she's literally his twin sister and she was wrong.

The obvious main difference here is that Math was objectively scummy by play and Bella isn’t. Also, it was literally one of Klick’s earliest posts in our pt.

I am addressing your point that because Klick is married to Bella, then his read on her will always be right

I’m not saying that but for him to make that post so early in our pt, sounds like he was extremely confident on that read.

[Dancing Puppets]

Those skilled at reading back may want to see who diverted Cephrir from gladiating Math.

~Titus

[Dancing Puppets]

scum probly think the doctor will 50/50 between the claimed masons or some shit

theres no reason for them to think doctor will protect bell of all people in a 24p

Klick hard tr Bella and he’s her husband and you said yourself Klick is town.

just cuz klick is town doesn't mean his read on bella is right

titus hard TR mathblade and she's literally his twin sister and she was wrong.

is titus even town

No we’re completely different alignments here.

[Dancing Puppets]

if people really want bella to live its cool I have many people I am willing to murder today like Johnny + whatshisfaceoverthere

Who’s “whatisfaceoverthere”?

[Dancing Puppets]

they said town with a question mark at the end

rofl

did klick even townread bella strongly

Yes, he did say it with a question mark. I won’t veto her lim like OtH/Taly but I won’t be shocked if she flips town either.

[Dancing Puppets]

Nancy talk to me about OTH because they have been sliding in my reads since day 1.

I hate that I town read Gamma for this, but I do town read gamma for his outburst end of day 2.

I kinda doubt that Scum!Gamma partnered with Scum!Math, actually gets that angry at people saying that they will blame Marci for a town math flip.

+1

OtH is so bleeding obvtown it hurts.

[Dancing Puppets]

Nancy talk to me about OTH because they have been sliding in my reads since day 1.

I hate that I town read Gamma for this, but I do town read gamma for his outburst end of day 2.

I kinda doubt that Scum!Gamma partnered with Scum!Math, actually gets that angry at people saying that they will blame Marci for a town math flip.

this is NAI for gamma

No it’s not, Gamma isn’t capable of faking this. You’re wrong. This I’m like 99.99999% certain of.

[Dancing Puppets]

the anger he is expressing is because he perceives that we are bullying marci and he is defending her

it has nothing to do with alignment

We are not limming OtH ever! If you think I was bad with Taly, you haven’t seen anything if anyone tries to run up OtH.

[Dancing Puppets]

Credit to Miselim Bait for this catch, but Bella was not even town reading Bell Day 2

My strongest scum read right now is still Johnny, I think I'm mellowing on bell,

And to be clear, this is a mellowing from being "Bella's strongest scum read"

Scum

Galron
Dunn
Pp
Ceph
Bell

But over night, Bell was in her top two most town players

it was Luke or bell for me and I assumed if another doc then prolly on other obv! town

------

Town!Bella does not protect Bell.
Scum does not use a strongman on Bell.

I don't buy her "I don't think I should claim because my role is so good" to "I guess we can kill me off, because there is a back up to my role out there" as genuine.

I was already leaning scum on Bella before the day started.

We are killing Bella today.

That is reasonable, I guess.

[Dancing Puppets]

im not trying to kill oth

gamma is capable of faking anger as scum

see slaughter hour

Gamma didn’t fake anything. His anger was still genuine. Your assumption of it impossible for scum to be genuinely upset is wrong.

And Gamma was extremely clearly upset that if Math flipped town, Marci would get blamed for that.

[Dancing Puppets]

Gamma didn’t fake anything. His anger was still genuine. Your assumption of it impossible for scum to be genuinely upset is wrong.

And Gamma was extremely clearly upset that if Math flipped town, Marci would get blamed for that.

no gamma was upset because he thought we were bullying marci and he wanted to defend her.

that has nothing to do with what mathblade will flip as

I’m not going to argue with you because I know Gamma’s play much better than you do and that slot is bleeding obvtown for like a gazillion different reasons.

[Dancing Puppets]

Did Bell ever flavor claim?

If not, kinda want to get it from Taly.

This is actually important to discuss before we get an elim.

Taly is probably getting replaced. They haven’t posted anywhere onsite for days and because it’s just the start of the day, it probably won’t even happen for awhile.

[Dancing Puppets]

why would scum even shoot bella at night if they have an ungated strongman

They probably don't. Isn't the idea here that both Bell and Bella are potentially "macho" so Bella's doc save on him just didn't work? Or am I reading macho wrong, this term is new to me...

Macho means they can’t be protected by a heal. It’s different from asetic because that stops all NAs.

[Dancing Puppets]

Did Bell ever flavor claim?

If not, kinda want to get it from Taly.

This is actually important to discuss before we get an elim.

Taly is probably getting replaced. They haven’t posted anywhere onsite for days and because it’s just the start of the day, it probably won’t even happen for awhile.

I’m fine with waiting. This is important.

I’m fine with that too, I wasn’t suggesting we rush the day because of that.

[Dancing Puppets]

I'm happy to be told who to doc tonight. It's not a confirmable role though.

@rad , the episodes in my role pm are 'the other woman' and 'nor in Portland ' , they seem directly related to the role.

Specifically 'the other woman' is Macho.

Yes, that's it.

What’s the “nor in Portland” signify?

[Dancing Puppets]

I don't wanna blahblahblah for 10 days either. But we just started this day. Also literally the game is just blahblahblah so we should probably do some of that first. Specifically I'd love if Taly popped in soon to blahblahblah about Bell's flavor and Bella came to blahblahblah to my question.

[Dancing Puppets]

Why did you quote my post?

[Dancing Puppets]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... %5D=25328m

Bella’s most recent scumgame

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=25328

Bella’s most recent towngame

[Dancing Puppets]

I just want to hear about Bella flavor and then we can go from there.

Bells *

I'm happy to be told who to doc tonight. It's not a confirmable role though.

@rad , the episodes in my role pm are 'the other woman' and 'nor in Portland ' , they seem directly related to the role.

Specifically 'the other woman' is Macho.

Yes, that's it.

Is it because of this?

[Dancing Puppets]

I just woke up and was in court. Can someone give the 411?

~Titus

[Dancing Puppets]

I'm happy to be told who to doc tonight. It's not a confirmable role though.

@rad , the episodes in my role pm are 'the other woman' and 'nor in Portland ' , they seem directly related to the role.

Specifically 'the other woman' is Macho.

Yes, that's it.

What’s the “nor in Portland” signify?

@Bella can you answer this please?

[Dancing Puppets]

wtfs going on

Drap tracked Bella to Bell and is claiming macho doc with apparently also being informed that there’s another macho player in the setup.

[Dancing Puppets]

Can we look into the Cephrir gladiate prior to the EoD?

[Dancing Puppets]

Can we look into the Cephrir gladiate prior to the EoD?

~Titus

[Dancing Puppets]

Look at it for what? That was a portion of the game that I completely missed

1) Cephrir was diverted from Math. How and why?
2) Was Taly scum as well? That relates to 1.
3) Should we start from the position that D1 Taly's reads were worse or equal for scum than Cephrir?

~Titus

[Dancing Puppets]

Look at it for what? That was a portion of the game that I completely missed

1) Cephrir was diverted from Math. How and why?
2) Was Taly scum as well? That relates to 1.
3) Should we start from the position that D1 Taly's reads were worse or equal for scum than Cephrir?

~Titus

Taly was not scum. Math clearly didn’t gaf whether he voted Ceph or Taly.

[Dancing Puppets]

Titus, if you mean who seggested he gladiate taly over math, pooky has quoted it a couple of times

luke
DP=taly, johnny=math

Bone
taly dp johnny math

csf
johnny taly math dp

pd
math johnny puppets taly

pooky
math johnny taly dp


TALY 2.5+3+2+0+1 = 8.5
JOHNNY .5+1+3+2+2 = 8.5

i hate u all

Me, tbone, and CSF all had taly >math

Drap and pooky both had math > taly

I would like more than who suggested but who was persuasive vs who sheeped and how.

Their alignments likely sort each other.

~Titus

[Dancing Puppets]

I just looked again at my role pm. Let me know whether or not you want me to confirm or deny the episode thing.

[Dancing Puppets]

I just looked again at my role pm. Let me know whether or not you want me to confirm or deny the episode thing.

Go ahead. I don't see it as relevant. Whatever you want.

~Titus

[Dancing Puppets]

I just looked again at my role pm. Let me know whether or not you want me to confirm or deny the episode thing.

Go ahead. I don't see it as relevant. Whatever you want.

~Titus

Well some people think we shouldn’t so I just want to make sure it’s okay first.

[Dancing Puppets]

I just looked again at my role pm. Let me know whether or not you want me to confirm or deny the episode thing.

I don't think it is any benefit.

Mine does have it, i was wrong. Bbt said his has it.

I assume at this point every who has a role does, and I am just a big dumb dumb

Okay then, I didn’t notice at first and even when I looked at it now, it didn’t know what it was until I googled it, so yes, apparently every role pm has an episode title in it for whatever reason.

[Dancing Puppets]

I just looked again at my role pm. Let me know whether or not you want me to confirm or deny the episode thing.

Go ahead. I don't see it as relevant. Whatever you want.

~Titus

Well some people think we shouldn’t so I just want to make sure it’s okay first.

If you do. You claim Not A Vanilla Townie.

You have already claimed Neighbor, so it does not really matter at all for you.

Definitely don't say how many times an episode title appears, because that would apparently say if you have more then just the neighbor role, or if you have some kind of modifier

Oh okay. Why does us being neighbour make it not matter for us?

[Dancing Puppets]

apparently every role pm has an episode title in it for whatever reason

We have been informed that there is a minimum of 1 vanilla townie in this set up. And they do not have an episode title in their pm.

Which is why people who have not said if they are a VT or not should probably not weigh in on this convo

Oh okay, I guess that would make sense then.

[Dancing Puppets]

Because everyone already knows you are not a VT

Yeah, I think I get it now.

[Dancing Puppets]

Titus, if you mean who seggested he gladiate taly over math, pooky has quoted it a couple of times

luke
DP=taly, johnny=math

Bone
taly dp johnny math

csf
johnny taly math dp

pd
math johnny puppets taly

pooky
math johnny taly dp


TALY 2.5+3+2+0+1 = 8.5
JOHNNY .5+1+3+2+2 = 8.5

i hate u all

Me, tbone, and CSF all had taly >math

Drap and pooky both had math > taly

I would like more than who suggested but who was persuasive vs who sheeped and how.

Their alignments likely sort each other.

~Titus

So I backread and your slot had been pretty vocal about math being town and you even fought ceph and frog who'd been pushing math

I voted him on the second day he repped in and Titus believed he was genuinely tilted. Read our interactions with Math. I already explained that his being sick threw me off.

If you’re going to make the argument that being wrong on Math somehow makes us scum. I can link you to games like FL v Hectic where I was asetic mason hard defending scum!Dannflor and Titus can’t read Math very well, obviously

[Dancing Puppets]

To anyone paying attention, which is very clearly not tunnelled puppy, every single nk had us as a hard tr but please feel free to completely ignore that.

[Dancing Puppets]

im not trying to kill oth

gamma is capable of faking anger as scum

see slaughter hour

Gamma didn’t fake anything. His anger was still genuine. Your assumption of it impossible for scum to be genuinely upset is wrong.

And Gamma was extremely clearly upset that if Math flipped town, Marci would get blamed for that.

I was trying to find the original post that started this topic off because I thought it had gone unaddressed, but since Pooky added something I'll respond to the latest part of the reply chain I found:
Both Pooky and Nancy's positions here are wack. I'm pretty sure I've iterated multiple times to them that I don't fake emotion as scum, I just angle it differently. To cite events in Slaughter Hour, I was legitimately pissed no one listened to me on Infinity, but towards the end of that event I ceded the point because I knew I could gain sway once my read was proven correct. And the reason why I said both are wack was that in the original post Nancy said my emotion here was genuine, ignoring the above point.
I do have to ask, Pooky, what emotions are you saying I faked that game? To make that accusation with no specificity runs a dangerous line, as I had emotional aftershocks from that game that have lasted until very recently.

~GE

So then I don’t get it Gamma, what is “whack” about our position?

[Dancing Puppets]

Are we just waiting for Taly to come back?

I wouldn’t hold my breath on that. I think Taly will probably get replaced but first we’ll likely have to wait 7Z hrs - 48 hr prod + 24 hr response time.

[Dancing Puppets]

Spoiler:

Titus, if you mean who seggested he gladiate taly over math, pooky has quoted it a couple of times

luke
DP=taly, johnny=math

Bone
taly dp johnny math

csf
johnny taly math dp

pd
math johnny puppets taly

pooky
math johnny taly dp


TALY 2.5+3+2+0+1 = 8.5
JOHNNY .5+1+3+2+2 = 8.5

i hate u all

Me, tbone, and CSF all had taly >math

Drap and pooky both had math > taly

I would like more than who suggested but who was persuasive vs who sheeped and how.

Their alignments likely sort each other.

~Titus

So I backread and your slot had been pretty vocal about math being town and you even fought ceph and frog who'd been pushing math

I voted him on the second day he repped in and Titus believed he was genuinely tilted. Read our interactions with Math. I already explained that his being sick threw me off.

If you’re going to make the argument that being wrong on Math somehow makes us scum. I can link you to games like FL v Hectic where I was asetic mason hard defending scum!Dannflor and Titus can’t read Math very well, obviously

calm down I never called you scum
I just pointed it out since Titus asked ppl to backread so I went and did.
ppl didn't really say much that time except for frog who absolutely wants math and pooky dead.

why do people bring up their meta just to say that they've played worst as town.
just get good ppl geez

Okay sorry then, because I’ve been pushed for that and even was the game losing Elo mislim bait in an MU game. I just think we’re pretty obvtown here and I feel like I have to keep defending myself.

Sorry for misinterpreting you.

[Dancing Puppets]

@MB, I’m also really frustrated that I don’t really have a clue who’s scum here but at least we have a red flip now, so I finally have something to work with.

[Dancing Puppets]

im not trying to kill oth

gamma is capable of faking anger as scum

see slaughter hour

Gamma didn’t fake anything. His anger was still genuine. Your assumption of it impossible for scum to be genuinely upset is wrong.

And Gamma was extremely clearly upset that if Math flipped town, Marci would get blamed for that.

I was trying to find the original post that started this topic off because I thought it had gone unaddressed, but since Pooky added something I'll respond to the latest part of the reply chain I found:
Both Pooky and Nancy's positions here are wack. I'm pretty sure I've iterated multiple times to them that I don't fake emotion as scum, I just angle it differently. To cite events in Slaughter Hour, I was legitimately pissed no one listened to me on Infinity, but towards the end of that event I ceded the point because I knew I could gain sway once my read was proven correct. And the reason why I said both are wack was that in the original post Nancy said my emotion here was genuine, ignoring the above point.
I do have to ask, Pooky, what emotions are you saying I faked that game? To make that accusation with no specificity runs a dangerous line, as I had emotional aftershocks from that game that have lasted until very recently.

~GE

So then I don’t get it Gamma, what is “whack” about our position?

You're ignoring nuance that I'm 99% sure I've spoken about with you in proximity countless times.

~GE

I’m really not following?

[Dancing Puppets]

I stand by what I said that you don’t fake emotions - not to that extent, which you agreed with. so still don’t understand what you’re referring to.

[Dancing Puppets]

Spoiler:

Titus, if you mean who seggested he gladiate taly over math, pooky has quoted it a couple of times

luke
DP=taly, johnny=math

Bone
taly dp johnny math

csf
johnny taly math dp

pd
math johnny puppets taly

pooky
math johnny taly dp


TALY 2.5+3+2+0+1 = 8.5
JOHNNY .5+1+3+2+2 = 8.5

i hate u all

Me, tbone, and CSF all had taly >math

Drap and pooky both had math > taly

I would like more than who suggested but who was persuasive vs who sheeped and how.

Their alignments likely sort each other.

~Titus

So I backread and your slot had been pretty vocal about math being town and you even fought ceph and frog who'd been pushing math

I voted him on the second day he repped in and Titus believed he was genuinely tilted. Read our interactions with Math. I already explained that his being sick threw me off.

If you’re going to make the argument that being wrong on Math somehow makes us scum. I can link you to games like FL v Hectic where I was asetic mason hard defending scum!Dannflor and Titus can’t read Math very well, obviously

calm down I never called you scum
I just pointed it out since Titus asked ppl to backread so I went and did.
ppl didn't really say much that time except for frog who absolutely wants math and pooky dead.

why do people bring up their meta just to say that they've played worst as town.
just get good ppl geez

Okay sorry then, because I’ve been pushed for that and even was the game losing Elo mislim bait in an MU game. I just think we’re pretty obvtown here and I feel like I have to keep defending myself.

Sorry for misinterpreting you.

wait elo in a mafia game?

In an MU game I wrongly defended scum because his buddies hardbussed him and the wagon had almost no resistance, so despite not a single one of the nks making an iota of sense coming from me, other town was tunneled on me and last scum had played extremely well.

[Dancing Puppets]

Nancy talk to me about OTH because they have been sliding in my reads since day 1.

Well, take Gamma’s outburst at the end of d2 for example, where Gamma clearly misread Luke’s and Pooky’s trolling of Marci. Why does scum!Gamma ever flip out like that if Math flips scum? Gamma was clearly worried that they would get run up in the event of a Math townflip.

Gamma is pretty much incapable of faking that level of emotion. OtH is NEVER scum here.

Yeah and I stand by this. I still have 0 clue what you’re talking about?

[Dancing Puppets]

Spoiler:

im not trying to kill oth

gamma is capable of faking anger as scum

see slaughter hour

Gamma didn’t fake anything. His anger was still genuine. Your assumption of it impossible for scum to be genuinely upset is wrong.

And Gamma was extremely clearly upset that if Math flipped town, Marci would get blamed for that.

I was trying to find the original post that started this topic off because I thought it had gone unaddressed, but since Pooky added something I'll respond to the latest part of the reply chain I found:
Both Pooky and Nancy's positions here are wack. I'm pretty sure I've iterated multiple times to them that I don't fake emotion as scum, I just angle it differently. To cite events in Slaughter Hour, I was legitimately pissed no one listened to me on Infinity, but towards the end of that event I ceded the point because I knew I could gain sway once my read was proven correct. And the reason why I said both are wack was that in the original post Nancy said my emotion here was genuine, ignoring the above point.
I do have to ask, Pooky, what emotions are you saying I faked that game? To make that accusation with no specificity runs a dangerous line, as I had emotional aftershocks from that game that have lasted until very recently.

~GE

So then I don’t get it Gamma, what is “whack” about our position?

You're ignoring nuance that I'm 99% sure I've spoken about with you in proximity countless times.

~GE

I’m really not following?

In this post:

Nancy talk to me about OTH because they have been sliding in my reads since day 1.

Well, take Gamma’s outburst at the end of d2 for example, where Gamma clearly misread Luke’s and Pooky’s trolling of Marci. Why does scum!Gamma ever flip out like that if Math flips scum? Gamma was clearly worried that they would get run up in the event of a Math townflip.

Gamma is pretty much incapable of faking that level of emotion. OtH is NEVER scum here.

You said "Gamma can't fake these emotions so he's town". The issue is I

rarely if ever

fake emotions as either alignment, so it's a net-zero statement to say I wouldn't fake emotions as scum. Pooky probably got close, I am just a bit triggered by him saying my emotions in Slaughter Hour were fake because as I said, that game actually shook me to my core.

~GE

Yeah, so I still don’t get why you think what I posted was “whack”? No not really because Pooky and Luke were trolling that Marci would be blamed in the event of a town!Math flip and if you and he were buddies, you would obviously already know that couldn’t possibly happen, so why would you be upset in that case?

[Dancing Puppets]

I might be missing context actually, I was just going off that last line, but the part before it specifies I was worried about a Math townflip. So the argument you're making is not that I couldn't fake

emotion

, but I couldn't fake

uninformed perspective

like that.

~GE

You practically lost your shit over it and that makes absolutely no sense if you and him were buddies.

[Dancing Puppets]

You practically lost your shit over it and that makes absolutely no sense if you and him were buddies.

if gamma thinks me/luke are "bullying marci" he's going to lose his shit on us regardless of his alignment because he thinks he's defending marci from us.

The joke you and Luke were playing on Marci was to blame her in the event Math flipped town. Scum!Gamma would obviously know that Marci was sitting pretty with her Math vote, so no real reason for Gamma to get upset. But I hard tr them even before that.

[Dancing Puppets]

like my point was that if you get angry/triggered by something - you will get emotional over it.

for example see how you reacted to Prism pushing you in Slaughter Hour.

it's not alignment indicative for you.

if you think me/lukewarm are "bullying marci", you will react extremely strongly regardless of your alignment.

But there’s no actual bullying because Math flipped scum but because Gamma obviously didn’t know that or know you and Luke were teasing Marci, he thought she was going to be pushed.

[Dancing Puppets]

But I wouldn’t know what I would be looking for even if he did.

Is “rock” some kind of clue?

[Dancing Puppets]

I was looking through the Lost wiki at the episodes Bella mentioned... the character Juliet is indeed a doctor. So yeah... flavor matches...

I couldn't find anything specific from "the other woman" episode that points to Juliet being "macho" but maybe that's not spelled out in the wiki. Any Lost watchers wanna comment on that? Any macho-like character development from her in that episode?

https://www.avclub.com/lost-the-other-woman-1798204018

Don’t know if this is helpful but it says something about Juliet becoming the other woman.

[Dancing Puppets]

wtfs going on

Drap tracked Bella to Bell and is claiming macho doc with apparently also being informed that there’s another macho player in the setup.

No, I didn't say informed anything.

Not in Portland was doctor, other woman macho. I think not in Portland is Juliet's first focus ep.

https://lostpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Not_in_Portland

And here’s the other one.

[Dancing Puppets]

@mod, what’s the earliest you can prod Taly?

[Dancing Puppets]

everyone gets the day start PM so 48 hours after that

We never got the day start pm. :/

[Dancing Puppets]

Ok so scum doc is possible, cool, good to know.

Let's suppose scum!Bella's doc claim is legit for a moment.

Does scum!Bella the doc target Bell as the one making the kill? Wouldn't scum!Bella the doc target the scum killer in case Bell is POG or something? Or maybe scum has an invest role and scum!Bella the doc sits on them just in case? Why is scum!Bella the doc killing Bell?

This is a great point, scum!doc Bella would heal a buddy not target town, so she’s likely telling the truth based on this. I’m extremely struggling with the fact that I can so strongly tr a slot by play and still have them be scum. So I’d say if you believe Bella’s doc who targeted Bell, she’s probably telling the truth about this. Also, scum docs aren’t extremely common in my experience because I’ve only been in one such game and it wasn’t even on MS. I think we can leash Bella to protect the slot of our choice and her role is very likely resolvable because outed town!doc doesn’t live too long. Also, if we give her one more day, > than odds chance that Taly slot will get replaced by then and hopefully answer our questions, so we could ideally leash Bella to protect one of the masons tonight or Taly slot.

[Dancing Puppets]

or RAD or Drap.

The majority should decide.

[Dancing Puppets]

Another question:

Does scum!Bella targeting X!scum who's going to kill Bell be seen as visiting Bell or X?

If scum!Bella was targeting a buddy, than Drap’s track on her wouldn’t be possible, so I’d say, scum!Bella who targeted a buddy would be seen as targeting that buddy not visiting Bell.

[Dancing Puppets]

I've been thinking of a DP => Bella => DP sort of scenario for tonight. We can talk more about it tomorrow.

Taly's not going to get NK'd, I think.

DP tracks Bella target him and either Bella dies or someone random dies. Shows that Bella has the ability to target someone outside of a NK. If PD dies we flip Bella. Strongarm ruins this line of play I guess but so does flipping town!Bella so... we're betting on probabilities there.

I dunno if there's a smarter scenario to play out of... town!Bella... strongarm!scum... will think about it tomorrow or I'm sure someone else can think of it in the meantime.

+1

Yeah, I like this.

[Dancing Puppets]

why would we waste a track just to track them again

VOTE: Bellaphant
this just needs to go and ppl should stop speculating about roles with funny names in a non flip game.

Did you literally not read anything RAD just posted?


I think Bella’s probably town from everything RAD posted but her slot is resolvable if she’s telling the truth here. We need to do what RAD is suggesting. At the worst, we probably save Drap tonight and that means he can track either Bella or any slot he wishes. If we run up Bella, Drap probably dues tonight.

[Dancing Puppets]

I'd suggest an actual role cope on me?

you'd think its worth it to out a role cop just to prove a doc claim?

I do and I also don’t see why Bella - who isn’t doc - would request to be role copped, do you?

If Bella is town doc, her slot is resolvable, because I don’t see town!Bella doc living very long and this way, we probably save Drap tonight.

[Dancing Puppets]

Meanwhile, Frogster is fuming in the dead thread

I’m starting to think maybe he could have possibly been the target and not Dunn, if scum was afraid of his role cop? But at any rate, I think by leashing Bella on Drap, Drap probably survives the night. If he doesn’t, we lim Bella tomorrow and if she flips town, we know a strongman exists in this setup.

We deprive ourselves of valuable info as well as very likely losing Drap if we run her up today.

[Dancing Puppets]

why would we waste a track just to track them again

VOTE: Bellaphant
this just needs to go and ppl should stop speculating about roles with funny names in a non flip game.

Garbage. We know flavor points to roles and should be taken into account. We don't know what alignment roles are so we have to consider that separately. If we ignore that we're ignoring valid information.

+1

[Dancing Puppets]

Dp on point. Town Bella just dies tonight sitting on PD, or other doc saves her. Scum bella dies tomorrow not protecting PD. Or unlimited strongarm wrecks town cause OP as fuck

+1

Exactly, limming Bella today is anti-town when we can potentially save Drap tonight or confirm Bella!scum or know that a strongman exists and this is the only way to do all of this.

[Dancing Puppets]

theres literally no flavor flips wtf are people talking about

Flavour and role are connected but not alignment so we don’t need role flips to figure this out. It’s basic logic. Assuming Bella is scum doc, why wouldn’t she use it on a buddy? Why does scum!doc Bella target town!Bell? But if Drap dies tonight despite us leashing Bella into him, we know that she’s either lying about being doc or if she flips town, scum probably has a strongman but Bella townflip would prove Bell had a macho modifuer I think.

We are also waiting on Taly slot to hopefully give us info wrt Bell’s flavour but it will take 3 days for Taly slot to get replaced at minimum but I think Bella slot is resolvable and barring any info from Taly replacement slot contradicting Bell being a possible macho, this is +protown.

If we run up Bella today, Drap very likely dies tonight and we are deprived of finding out in the event of a Bella townflip if scum has a strongman.

[Dancing Puppets]

I just glanced over Bell's ISO. He actually read Taly as scum for most of the game, I think until the response to the gladiate. Even after that, in d2, he just told DP that he'd respect the Taly veto, which suggests to me that if the veto wasn't there he'd still consider voting Taly. I doubt he even told Taly any revealing info about his flavor given he believed his role matched his flavor.

This wait might be pointless.

Yeah probably right. If I were a macho and sr my neighbour, I doubt I would out it.

[Dancing Puppets]

Yo we already decided Juliet (bella claim) could be doc.

Did Bella steal it from a scum partner? Sure maybe.

If PD dies tonight we flip bella, 100%.

If Bella is town doc PD doesn't die. Bella dies or someone random dies.

That's the point.

And if Drap dies and Bella flips town, we know a strongman exists.

Why is this so important? Because if strongman exists it means Frogs was probably the scum kill and not Dunn and this could be extremely important info for town to have.

[Dancing Puppets]

Dp 10344 is on point

We must wait.

Find other scum in meantime. Bella resolves tonight potentially with PD safe or bella as tomorrow's flip. PD safe is highest priority here and if scum decides to leave them both alone tonight, they're fucked anyway.

+1

If you’re voting Bella today, you’re essentially signing PD’s death warrant tonight because no way is scum not killing him tonight if they have a free and clear shot at it.

[Dancing Puppets]

Yo we already decided Juliet (bella claim) could be doc.

Did Bella steal it from a scum partner? Sure maybe.

If PD dies tonight we flip bella, 100%.

If Bella is town doc PD doesn't die. Bella dies or someone random dies.

That's the point.

role blocker exist iirc
which is why pd failed the track on csf d1

Ok if so, who does rb target?

If targets town bella, PD dies and we flip bella tomorrow. Same scenario for scum as if we flip town bella here.

If targets pd, bella dies and PD gains no info.

In both cases it only sucks for town Bella which is the same scenario as town flipping town Bella right now.

So in rb scenario, only town Bella suffers? Now if town bella is doc and we have second doc, chaos for scum.

Sorry sounds like broken English because phone.

They could just rb pd why would they need to kill bella?
if bella is town then they get free mislim and town would waste more time resolving bella.

we could just flip bella right now and if they flip scum the real town doctor protect pd and pd gets another shot on someone else
if bella flips town then the other town doc protects pd
if pd dies anyway then scum have strongman

I absolutely hate this kind of talk
I could already think of ways to wifom it as scum.

Rb on Drap doesn’t affect Bella’s claim, so what’s your point? If Drap dies, we lim Bella. If she flips town, we know a strongman exists and implying RAD could be scum from this is whack. It is super protown.

[Dancing Puppets]

So what are the chances that bella actually stole her partners flavor instead?

I think this is likely, or that she is a doc but chose not to use it bc she did the NK instead

csf also got a point
they could be real scum doc but they have limited shot so they holster and did the nk instead

What part of Drap dying tonight means we lim Bella tomorrow aren’t you getting?

[Dancing Puppets]

It’s super important to leash Bella tonight onto Drap, because if he dies and she flips town, we know strongman exists and that means that > rand chance Frogs was the actual scum kill and not Dunn.

Leashing Bella on Drap is the only way we can find this out, If we run her up today and she flips town, we never find that out.

[Dancing Puppets]

Yo we already decided Juliet (bella claim) could be doc.

Did Bella steal it from a scum partner? Sure maybe.

If PD dies tonight we flip bella, 100%.

If Bella is town doc PD doesn't die. Bella dies or someone random dies.

That's the point.

role blocker exist iirc
which is why pd failed the track on csf d1

Ok if so, who does rb target?

If targets town bella, PD dies and we flip bella tomorrow. Same scenario for scum as if we flip town bella here.

If targets pd, bella dies and PD gains no info.

In both cases it only sucks for town Bella which is the same scenario as town flipping town Bella right now.

So in rb scenario, only town Bella suffers? Now if town bella is doc and we have second doc, chaos for scum.

Sorry sounds like broken English because phone.

They could just rb pd why would they need to kill bella?
if bella is town then they get free mislim and town would waste more time resolving bella.

we could just flip bella right now and if they flip scum the real town doctor protect pd and pd gets another shot on someone else
if bella flips town then the other town doc protects pd
if pd dies anyway then scum have strongman

I absolutely hate this kind of talk
I could already think of ways to wifom it as scum.

Rb on Drap doesn’t affect Bella’s claim, so what’s your point? If Drap dies, we lim Bella. If she flips town, we know a strongman exists and implying RAD could be scum from this is whack. It is super protown.

What do you mean implying RAD could be scum?

I'm saying that regardless of bella's alignment. Scum would always want her alive here and they have every means to disable the doc if bella is town
either through roleblock or strongman.
and based on the flavor talks we have a 2nd doctor?

Oh sorry then I misinterpreted you again. Why would scum want to keep town doc Bella alive? And if your theory is correct that scum rbs her and kills Drap, we also find that out tomorrow. Either way - scum rb or strongman points to Frogs scumkill > Dunn but let’s say you’re right:

Scum Bella wouldn’t kill Drap tonight because that would be scum suicide. In the case of scum rbing town!Bella and killing Drap, we still have more info that points to Frogs being > rand being the nk > Dunn, so whether strongman ot roleblocker we still get info but scum!Bella won’t kill Drap here, so regardless of what Bella is, we have a chance at possibly saving Drap tonight. If we lim Bella, no we have 0 chsnce of that, especially if you think she’s scum.

And if there’s an unclaimed town doc, they could also be on Drap, so if scum rbs town!Bella and kills Drap, that would prove strongman, no?

[Dancing Puppets]

So we keep Bella alive, so she continue making kills and Tracker lives uselessly?

Of course no..

And what if she flips town and Drap dies anyway?

[Dancing Puppets]

It’s super important to leash Bella tonight onto Drap, because if he dies and she flips town, we know strongman exists and that means that > rand chance Frogs was the actual scum kill and not Dunn.

Leashing Bella on Drap is the only way we can find this out, If we run her up today and she flips town, we never find that out.

So..
what if bella is town and they're quack doctor
what if scum have strongman but they didn't use it on frog
or what if bella is just caught scum
the more I talk about this the more I actually want bella dead

Consider this as well, I recently ISO’d Bell and he didn’t even mention her as a possible sr, so that’s another thing that’s concerning me. If he had Bella a potential sr, I would be a lot less likely to think her claim could possibly be true.

[Dancing Puppets]

So we keep Bella alive, so she continue making kills and Tracker lives uselessly?

Of course no..

And what if she flips town and Drap dies anyway?

She won't.

Okay, I’m 100% convinced of this now.

[Dancing Puppets]

I think I agree with DP and Rad. I said earlier that the Bella issue resolves itself and I still believe it.

We can continue scum hunting with the rest of the time we have and then go from there.

+1

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34613

Bell’s most recent posts that don’t even point to Bella. Drap had track on Bella, he’s not watcher, so it’s possible someone else killed Bell and it bothers me that when reading Bell’s recent posts, he’s not even mentioning her, let alone actually sr her. So her killing Bell specifically out of other possible slots, is really strange. People have said her doc on Bell doesn’t make sense but I’d argue that Bell doc makes way more sense than Bella killing a slot that wasn’t even sr her.

[Dancing Puppets]

I'm a doc, hence I think there must be two from flavour, I was on rad n1 then bell.

Ok so I guess this isn’t entirely a redcheck then.


I Hardclaim Tracker


N1: CSF - Action Failed for some reason
N2: Bella visited Bell.

@Puppet

It’s possible wolves have Roleblocker that blocked me N1.

@Best Bird who did you talk to last night?

[Dancing Puppets]

The points above don't really matter as it's a 4 person scum team. Scum decide together who to kill and it might have been a consensus kill from the other 3 for example. Bella, if scum, would be a decent enough choice to send out to actually do the kill, it doesn't mean she agreed with it or even wanted it.

Maybe but if Drap is right about possibly being roleblocked n1, why would scum have Bella make the kill when they know that Drap was hard sr her?

[Dancing Puppets]

If mafia have roleblocker, why they even need kill Professor.

They just roleblockspam Professor and keep both alive.


Also Dancing again scumclaiming.

Idk what you are here but if you’re town, the scumteam probably love you but I’m still suss on you for pushing me when you have done absolutely nothing townie the entire game.

[Dancing Puppets]

Nancy maybe you're just town but I hate how you keep making reads that are in wifom territory.

Well I actually helped solve who was scum in PYP by literally deconstructing town wifom.

Btw, Enchant still pushing me here is +scum. He’s seen both my scum and towngames, so that’s seriously fucked.

[Dancing Puppets]

Maybe but if Drap is right about possibly being roleblocked n1, why would scum have Bella make the kill when they know that Drap was hard sr her?

Well, scum wouldn't have known Drap was a tracker for starters. On top of this, outside of Drap, was Bella being scum read by many other people? Seems a safe person to send for a kill

Well what is your theory then why CSF track failed on n1? Unless CSF is aestic or a rolestop. roleblock makes total sense. And while scum might not know he was tracker, they must have roleblocked him for a reason on n1? So the real question is why was he able to successfully track Bella but not CSF?

Since I think CSF is town, it points to likely roleblock.

[Dancing Puppets]

If mafia have roleblocker, why they even need kill Professor.

They just roleblockspam Professor and keep both alive.


Also Dancing again scumclaiming.

Idk what you are here but if you’re town, the scumteam probably love you but I’m still suss on you for pushing me when you have done absolutely nothing townie the entire game.

Stop protecting mafia from being killed.

You were in both PYP and White Flag, so there’s no way you seriously think I’m scum here.

[Dancing Puppets]

So what are the chances that bella actually stole her partners flavor instead?

I think this is likely, or that she is a doc but chose not to use it bc she did the NK instead

csf also got a point
they could be real scum doc but they have limited shot so they holster and did the nk instead

What part of Drap dying tonight means we lim Bella tomorrow aren’t you getting?

Well, if Bella is town, macho suggests there is another protective out there. If Bella is scum….there is also still another likely protective out there. Might be multiple or like bp or something. Idk if those would coexist or not.

Actually that’s a good point. Bell being macho neighbour does seem to be highly unlikely over doc. Why would a neighbour be a macho anything? Idk but Bell really doesn’t make a lot of sense as the other macho based off of role. \_0_/

[Dancing Puppets]

If mafia have roleblocker, why they even need kill Professor.

They just roleblockspam Professor and keep both alive.


Also Dancing again scumclaiming.

Idk what you are here but if you’re town, the scumteam probably love you but I’m still suss on you for pushing me when you have done absolutely nothing townie the entire game.

Stop protecting mafia from being killed.

You were in both PYP and White Flag, so there’s no way you seriously think I’m scum here.

What the fuck you talking about

Do you not know I’m HQ?

[Dancing Puppets]

It’s super important to leash Bella tonight onto Drap, because if he dies and she flips town, we know strongman exists and that means that > rand chance Frogs was the actual scum kill and not Dunn.

Leashing Bella on Drap is the only way we can find this out, If we run her up today and she flips town, we never find that out.

So..
what if bella is town and they're quack doctor
what if scum have strongman but they didn't use it on frog
or what if bella is just caught scum
the more I talk about this the more I actually want bella dead

Consider this as well, I recently ISO’d Bell and he didn’t even mention her as a possible sr, so that’s another thing that’s concerning me. If he had Bella a potential sr, I would be a lot less likely to think her claim could possibly be true.

Nancy why does Bells read on bella matter?

Well because Idk why Bella kills Bell here. I was shocked that it was Bell but then I didn’t really expect either Dunn or Frogs’. kills either.

[Dancing Puppets]

Right. If it was possible for bell to be macho I probably wouldn’t mind giving Bella a night. In the event Bella flips town it’s more likely than not that a strongman is responsible. And makes another protective more likely as well. Which doesn’t bode well for PD because I doubt the strongman would have only 1 shot in that scenario.

Yeah, I think you’re probably right. I just don’t think she’s scum and evidence of a strongman would likely mean that scum killed Frogs.

I wish BB would tell us what he learned from his convo and who with.

You might not be good, but I think Titus is quicker to push you as town than you are. My meta is limited though.

I was talking about the game we recently finished when hq was yelling at me for not voting you when I knew you were town. It was based on our team mafia game. At the moment I don't have a strong opinion on your slot.

I think I have quite a few low key scum reads but nothing glaring. I'm happier with my town reads than I was, so I think I'm just overwhelmed by the amount of posting. There were 20+ pages overnight and when I caught up I didn't find a lot of it helpful for sorting people.

@math, this was my response to you..I didn't ask why you disliked my post so much.

That doesn’t make sense

How does that define your word salad?

So I found this post in Math’s ISO. Interactions between Math and Bella don’t particularly look partnery to me. So again, while I understand that technically Bella is probably the correct lim, I will not be shocked if she flips town here.

[Dancing Puppets]

There are 4 scum alive, so how bell views 1 slot doesn’t seem that relevant to me.

I would like Titus to weigh in when she has a chance though.

Sure I’ll let her know.

[Dancing Puppets]

I do value math interactions and don’t generally find his theatre convincing, hence my continued suspicion on bbt. I don’t think that interaction in particular is partner indicative but is it isolated? Like was that their only interaction?

I also have one thing that has bugged me about Bella since the gladiate but it wasn’t important enough to sidetrack from the math elim. I didn’t want anything to derail that.

What is that?

[Dancing Puppets]

they got tracked to an nk
they claimed doc
it's not rocket science

what's the point of keeping them alive

@Pooky, why do you think scum targeted Bell? Bell may have been bleeding obvtown but he isn’t particularly persuasive, so I’m struggling with him being considered such a huge threat to scum. I mean he never softed pr unlike Dunn and Frogs, so why Bell and this early?

[Dancing Puppets]

So the real question is why was he able to successfully track Bella but not CSF?

Since I think CSF is town, it points to likely roleblock.

This is the real question - I would argue it wasn't a Roleblocker and has something to do with CSF's role. As you say, why roleblock one night but not the next?

I would also ask you to reevaluate your CSF town read.

Well yeah, if Drap was roleblocked n1, why not n2 unless it’s a one shot but I don’t think I’ve ever heard of an x-shot rb.

Idk if not roleblock, I suppose CSF could be aesetic? I have no idea. I’m up for re-evaluating anything except for certain slots I bet the game on being town.

[Dancing Puppets]

While I was looking for that post I saw a little recap Luke had done about how the frog wagon was dismantled and what I thought was interesting was that Math opted not to jump on that wagon at its height. Luke pointed out math said they didn’t want to elim an invest(suggesting scum had a way to deal with it) but the interesting part is that this is when the competing wagons were Taly and Mala.

I think Math would be more inclined to be on the frog wagon if a partner had the potential to be elimmed over town!frog. So I’m kind of on the Taly/mala!town train?

If that’s dumb someone tell me now before I bias myself.

Mala is town from Corwin ISO regardless

Math pushed her hard too, so yeah.

[Dancing Puppets]

Bell was pretty much conf town for his Math push, no?

That’s true but still so early but Bell isn’t particularly great at pushing reads, so it’s still a surprise to me that it happened on n2 but maybe I’m just over thinking it?

[Dancing Puppets]

Not strange when you don't have strongman actually and fear protectives.

Why are you so certain a strongman can’t exist in this setup?

[Dancing Puppets]

These PRs also useless.

But they're still PRs over a complete unknown in Bell.

Yeah he’s so far the only nk who didn’t soft a pr.

[Dancing Puppets]

yeah honestly taly seems town i think?

Yeah, yet another reason Bell!kill is weird.

[Dancing Puppets]

These PRs also useless.

But they're still PRs over a complete unknown in Bell.

do u think looking into nks will help us progress?

NKA is vastly underrated imo.

[Dancing Puppets]

Why are you so certain a strongman can’t exist in this setup?

if scum have strongman bella is useless

also why have macho doc in a game with strongman

Strongman is usually gated right, so why not?

[Dancing Puppets]

I was townreading Corwin - I think that he genuinely believes in 1742, and 1763 looks like a fairly complex thought even if I disagree with its conclusions.

I'd be down for Toad though

This looks bad in retrospect. I think it was Luke who mentioned it at the time but I don't see how these thoughts are complex and so the town read feels unjustified.

Had we limmed Corwin d1, Taly probably would never have been gladiated and Frogs would have likely been spewed town from 2080.

But yeah, I agree. I really don’t see anything particularly complex about Corwin’s posting. It’s very superficial.

[Dancing Puppets]

Dp on point. Town Bella just dies tonight sitting on PD, or other doc saves her. Scum bella dies tomorrow not protecting PD. Or unlimited strongarm wrecks town cause OP as fuck

+1

Exactly, limming Bella today is anti-town when we can potentially save Drap tonight or confirm Bella!scum or know that a strongman exists and this is the only way to do all of this.

Is this a scum claim? In no world is not flipping Bella the right thing to do.

Is this a real question? And that’s probably the most polite response I can think of to respond to this.

[Dancing Puppets]

Also like the handwringing over Drap dying if Bella flips scum is nonsense. That's a good fucking trade town should want to make every time. Only scum would be against this trade I feel.

If Bella flips town then there's zero chance Drap is killed because we'll have to flip him next.

True, nothing scum absolutely hates more than the possible prospect of miselimming. No townie ever worries about such nonsense.

[Dancing Puppets]

If Bella flips town then there's zero chance Drap is killed because we'll have to flip him next.

mmm...

it's not like bella disputed the track...

+1

Drap is town regardless of what Bella is and I understand why people want to flip her but it was a track not a watch, which means it’s not a confirmed guilty. I agree with RCE that Bell’s role doesn’t really make much sense as a macho neighbour though, however a Bella townflip would point to a strongman. Just based off of both play and Math interactions, I just would not be surprised if she’s actually telling the truth but I won’t veto it. I’m just not all confident she flips red here.

[Dancing Puppets]

I do and I also don’t see why Bella - who isn’t doc - would request to be role copped, do you?

If Bella is town doc, her slot is resolvable, because I don’t see town!Bella doc living very long and this way, we probably save Drap tonight.

1) scum doc would still come back doc to a role cop

2) a town role cop is dead, so not even likely we have another

That’s true, so Bella asking to be role copped isn’t meaningful in light of Frogs’ flip.

[Dancing Puppets]

Also like the handwringing over Drap dying if Bella flips scum is nonsense. That's a good fucking trade town should want to make every time. Only scum would be against this trade I feel.

If Bella flips town then there's zero chance Drap is killed because we'll have to flip him next.

It’s not that kind of 1v1.

Also like the handwringing over Drap dying if Bella flips scum is nonsense. That's a good fucking trade town should want to make every time. Only scum would be against this trade I feel.

If Bella flips town then there's zero chance Drap is killed because we'll have to flip him next.

It’s not that kind of 1v1.

Isn't it though? There's a lot of coincidence otherwise. Which granted, a series of unlikely events could put us into this position. But we can't play for the unlikely events, we have to play for the most likely outcome.

Sorry I should add on that Drap also claimed to not get a result night 1. So it is really claim vs claim here. Nothing is proved without a flip, and in light of that a Bella town flip makes Drap likely scum.

How is Drap scum if Bella flips town? He claimed a track on her and she didn’t dispute that. I’m saying that that it’s not a confirmed gulty. Another thought I had is that why scum!Bella claims macho doc as opposed to any number of other possible roles that might look better but yes, I know that’s wifom.

[Dancing Puppets]

Yes, I want to know why his track on CSF n1 failed but it was successful on Bella. Something isn’t making sense with this but I highly doubt it has anything whatsoever to do with Drap’s alignment.

[Dancing Puppets]

What?

You realize what Bella claimed right?
You realize they aren’t denying the track right?
You realize Bella is claiming their to be a strongman right?
You’ve been paying attention to thread right?

Bella’s theory is that Bell is macho “the other woman” or something I think but that seems highly unlikely given that Bell is neighbour but it’s others who are saying that if she flips town, it points to that.

[Dancing Puppets]

Yes, I want to know why his track on CSF n1 failed but it was successful on Bella. Something isn’t making sense with this but I highly doubt it has anything whatsoever to do with Drap’s alignment.

Mafia probably has a Roleblocker or Rolestopper, that’s what I conclude as most likely scenario.

So what is your theory if so, why if either is the case, it only occurred on one of the two nights? That’s the part I don’t understand.

[Dancing Puppets]

Sorry I should add on that Drap also claimed to not get a result night 1. So it is really claim vs claim here. Nothing is proved without a flip, and in light of that a Bella town flip makes Drap likely scum.

Disagree.

Drap said: I HAVE A GUILTY ON BELLA
Bella said: I visited Bell, but I'm still town.


Bella confirmed the drap is telling the truth about being a tracker, so Bellas alignment has nothing to do with Draps at this point

I don't agree because we don't have any other confirmed action.

So in your mind, if Bella flips town then scum!drap just happened to guess that Bella visited Bell?

No.

Regardless of alignment, drap is a role that learned that Bella visited Bell.

Bella being town does not change that.

+1

I don’t understand what T-Bone is thinking here.

[Dancing Puppets]

Yes, I want to know why his track on CSF n1 failed but it was successful on Bella. Something isn’t making sense with this but I highly doubt it has anything whatsoever to do with Drap’s alignment.

Mafia probably has a Roleblocker or Rolestopper, that’s what I conclude as most likely scenario.

So what is your theory if so, why if either is the case, it only occurred on one of the two nights? That’s the part I don’t understand.

Because there are different targets between night 1 and night 2.

The last several pages are frustrating to read.

I know but there has to be some reason it failed n1 but succeeded n2. I have no idea why but I believe Drap failed to get results on n1.

[Dancing Puppets]

tbone hardtown for this line of reasoning imo

For thinking Bella!town=Drap!scum?

??????