Newbie 1361: The Ninja Council (Game Over)

[Edosurist]

I had a townread on gene
I had a confused townread on levi
I had a gut scumread on chk
I hadn't actually put time into reading Nacho yet.

The reason why I'm considering more than levi/gene's alignment is because we have more to work with than that. I don't want to be hasty at mylo.

[mrbungle]

edo if i remember correctly, the main reason for your scumread on flip was of because of a confusion on your part. also, do me a favor, go and read some of chkflips scum games and tell me how you would describe his scumplay.

[mrbungle]

i'll tell you what you'll find... in his scum games he plays nice, his posts are quite formal, he doesn't act crazy or make enemies or anything like that.

in this game he's not playing nice, not making 'formal' posts, and he obviously does NOT give a fuck about his image. i just opened one of his other town games and his play there looks A LOT like his play in this game. frequent one liners, lots of jokes, no fear of insulting people, etc.

[Edosurist]

But Nacho, in 950, the preface for chk claiming doc is that they no killed. Why wouldn't they just kill you, then have gene claim cop with a guilty on someone?

[Nachomamma8]

But Nacho, in 950, the preface for chk claiming doc is that they no killed. Why wouldn't they just kill you, then have gene claim cop with a guilty on someone?

Me flipping town after Bert flipped town would throw things off quite a bit, as gene correctly noted in #686. It's riskier to no kill and pull the doctor gambit yeah, but that means that they can still get one of levi/me lynched because we come in a nice package.

[gene1991]

look. say flip.gene are scum. WHY THE HELL would chkflip need to counterclaim nacho? especially if gene was going to fakeclaim cop to push a levi mislynch? and fuck, gene wouldn't even need to do that to score a mislynch. chkflip fakecounterclaiming in the manner nacho is suggesting he did would be even dumber than him realcounterclaiming the way he did

They can't no kill without confirming me as town. If they kill me and I flip town, remaining townies know that something is horribly wrong and start to reanalyze. Counterclaiming me as doc while his partners claims an innocent on him is a pretty creative move and pretty solid because not many people would expect it. Letting me go because he didn't want to counterclaim for who knows why doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

that's not true, because one of the set ups is:
----->1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop.

So I could have claimed cop, and still claimed you were lying about being doc and say there is no doc.

[gene1991]

I had a townread on gene
I had a confused townread on levi
I had a gut scumread on chk
I hadn't actually put time into reading Nacho yet.

The reason why I'm considering more than levi/gene's alignment is because we have more to work with than that. I don't want to be hasty at mylo.

I totally agree with you, lol. Yesterday, if I hadn't had a not guilty report on chkflip, I would have thought he was mafia. and I had to hold my tongue yesterday. He was FLLhawk, and day 1 he almost got lynched, which is why I investigated him that night. And then yesterday I started putting him in my townread pile without giving any reasons why, and I was afraid someone would call me out on that and I would not know what to say.

I'm not used to playing mafia with this lack of strategy. When I play mafia online, it's quick 5-15 minute games. and there's usually an unspoken rule that cop ALWAYS outs on day one first thing, even if cop has a report on the dead mafia kill. and then mafia always counter claims cop. And all this other stuff.
And if I ever sway from that strategy, I totally get lynched for seeming like mafia. even though sometimes I think my idea is better, like waiting to cc cop until I have a guilty report. but, it just never works like that.

My point is, that's kinda what chkflip did. It's traditional that doc would cc. But in chkflip's mind, he thought it better to save me, the one most likely to be killed, and then be able to clear me tomorrow while also outing the mafia.

[mrbungle]

edo, nacho is trying to make you think that a scum chkflpi fake counter claiming doctor is less stupid than a town chkflip thinking he's some mafia genius by waiting on a counterclaim... and that's so far from the truth

where is the mafia motivation in that?

first off, if gene/flip are scum then they were in an AMAZING position after the bert lynch. there was NOBODY in the game who would have even thought of suggesting that gene could be scum. and nobody was really calling chkflip scum, much less calling for his lynch. all they had to do was continue on, business as usual, and then lynch someone like levi or nacho to win the the game. they could have killed me for example.... or you. instead.... nacho is trying to tell us that their amazing scumplan was to not only withhold a nightkill, but for gene to claim doctor when he can't know that there isn't another doctor out there who might counter claim, and then for chkflip to make the plan even riskier by late fake counterclaiming nacho. i can see how a scumteam MIGHT MIGHT MIGHT take the cop claim risk, but only if they're doing it because they're trolls or something and don't really give a shit about the outcome of the game. nacho said no, this isn't the case because of the mafia rolecop, but herpderp there's only been 2 night cycles so they couldn't have possibly known that there wasn't a doctor. EVEN IF you grant that all of that is possible, which it isn't, that gene fakeclaimed doctor.... THEN you have to figure out why the fuck chkflip would have felt the need to late counterclaim. that move can ONLY draw intense suspicion, as evidenced by this very conversation that we're having. late counter-claiming like that is an extremely risky move for scum to make.... not only risky.... it would have been completely unnecessary because they would have alredy had all they needed to get one mislynch.... even without a fakeclaim from gene

lol i'm currently kinda getting stoned on vicodin and i just reread this post and had a hard time understanding it. so if you have the same issue let me know


oh btw.... just so nacho can't be mad at me for not 'being fair' or whatever:

@GENE why did you investigate each of the people you investigated? i want you to compltely walk me through each decision

@chkflip: are you town? kthnkx

[gene1991]

@ bungle, in your post, you said doctor three times when you meant to say cop.

[mrbungle]

well fuck me

[mrbungle]

gene i'd still like you to explain your reasoning for your investigations. why you investigated the people you did, why you didnt check the people you didn't, etc. just for shits n' giggles.

meanwhile i'm going to get more high and probably play mgs3 on european extreme mode...... edo, i still feel like gene is SO obviously town that we shouldn't be having this discussion. if you want me to walk you through that I will.

[gene1991]

@GENE why did you investigate each of the people you investigated? i want you to compltely walk me through each decision

There's not much to walk you through. I investigated whoever I thought was must scummy. At the end of day 1, I wanted to lynch hawk, I thought he was scummiest, we almost lynched him at least once. and somehow people started jumping on NicCage. who I voted for because you pressured me
That and I am never used to it starting on day, I'm used to us starting out at night and having a dead town by morning, so, I wasn't too concerned with who we lynched D1 because we were still narrowing it.

I thought about investigating Bungle N1, because I had thought he was suspicious and I was trusting him, and I just wanted to make sure my trust was well placed. But I decided it was better for town that I investigate Hawk and get a guilty report. Of course, I was completely floored when I got a not guilty report on hawk.

Now near the end of D2, I kept telling myself I would investigate Nacho N2, but then it looked like we were going to lynch him, so I decided to investigate the next scummiest imo, Levi. But when Nacho claimed doc, I thought about investigating him again, just to make sure I could trust him. But then we said that if I died, that would mean Nacho was not doc, and Nacho would have been lynched. So I decided back again to go with Levi.

That's all I can think of that went into my decision making.


I can't believe we didn't lynch Levi yesterday, I thought he was acting scummy, but everyone thought it was baseless apparently. But Nacho is just really smooth, imo. He really gives me a gut feeling that he's town, even now. And that makes him an awesome maf player.

[gene1991]

I'm actually surprised maf tried to kill me, because if I had died, we would have for sure lynched Nacho.

[mrbungle]

yeah he's smooth. but i still think he's being pretty scummy atm. he's basing most of his arguments on theoretical shit about nightkills and a bunch of other wifom crap. when i pressed him to show me why you're scum the case he came up with was just a bunch of things that first time players are likely to say or the occasional inconsistencies that townies often show. he's not actualy 'scumhunting'

for that matter, levi is not scumhunting at all. he's offered up no help as to who should be lynched today. quite a strange thing to do for someone that is so proud of lynching a townie, no? he's been playing up this confidence about how town is going to win no matter if we screwed uop the d2 lynch or not, and now that we're in lylo.... where the fuck is levi and all his confidence?

[mrbungle]

come on edo, hammer.

-it's very obvious all game long tha gene is town. he is very open with his thought process and his posts do not look contrived in the least
-it's very obvious that levi is mafia based on his uncharacteristic hammer of bert and his subsequent justifications for why it was a good thing, and his play in d3 has amounted to trolling and no efforts to figure out who is mafia
-it's very obvious that chkflip is town based on how carefree his posting style is. also meta backs up that he plays like that when town
-it's obvious that nacho is scum right now as his main arguments are not about who is scummy and why, but about nightkill and scumteam speculation. his case on gene a few pages ago was very weak
-gene and flip double fakeclaiming as scum is harder to believe than chkflip derping around by waiting to counterclaim as town

[Nachomamma8]

he's basing most of his arguments on theoretical shit about nightkills and a bunch of other wifom crap. when i pressed him to show me why you're scum the case he came up with was just a bunch of things that first time players are likely to say or the occasional inconsistencies that townies often show. he's not actualy 'scumhunting'

We can drop all of the theoretical shit and talk about the 40 pages of game that happened before. Give me your cases. Why is levi scum, why am I scum, why is chk town.
I think you've explained gene well enough.

[chkflip]

He's explained all of these things, you're just churning as hard as you can for those loosely veiled town points. Your best bet is that edos doesn't side with us so we can bitch and moan back and forth for three weeks, only for him to HAVE to come to our side because none of us are going to be convinced in the slightest the levi OR you are town. But hey keep fighting the good fight. Props for showing the "newbs" what an IC should do to the bitter end.

[Nachomamma8]

You keep painting me as desperate scum, but somehow the lack of any actual arguments prevents me from getting intimidated.

[chkflip]

I feel no need to argue with defeated scum. Town is going to win this game unless somehow MAGICALLY the cop or bungle go "whelp fuck my win condition" and vote for me FOR NO REASON WHEN THERE IS A COP GUILTY ON LEVI.

Simple as.

[Nachomamma8]

a claimed cop guilty in lylo, when the scum only needs one more lynch to win

[Nachomamma8]

sooooooooooooooooooooo

[chkflip]

Semantics.

[Nachomamma8]

Saying "dude he's not confirmed town because it's lylo and we have no way to check his claim" isn't exactly semantics, just a part of the game.
But keep pretending otherwise!

[Edosurist]

But Nacho, in 950, the preface for chk claiming doc is that they no killed. Why wouldn't they just kill you, then have gene claim cop with a guilty on someone?

Me flipping town after Bert flipped town would throw things off quite a bit, as gene correctly noted in #686. It's riskier to no kill and pull the doctor gambit yeah, but that means that they can still get one of levi/me lynched because we come in a nice package.

I don't think the benefit's worth the risk.

What doesn't change is chk's claim. There was no reason for him to do that. All it does is tie him directly to gene if something goes wrong.

[mrbungle]

come on, just hammer. it couldn't be more obvious. just look at gene's play, he's obviously town. look at levi. wtf is he doing right now? he's obviously scum and it's hurting my soul that it's taking you this long to see it