I planned on making a case against Marci as well, but looking at the interactions between the marci and the sama/vfp slot, I'm not really seeing them as partners...
Day 1
Marci has Sama as a scum read the entire day, and repeatedly explains why. I would also like to point out, that when I did my quick scan of Marci's iso I noticed she did not quote him, but looking through more closely, she does talk about him a few times before that quote
Spoiler:
Here is every time Marci talks about Sama, and she scum reads him every single time. And she is not presenting like 4 scum reads with him in them, she appears to be saying I think the team is Sama+____
I didn't agree to how he could be seen as awkward earlier in the phase, though I find it quite weird that since he defended himself, he hasn't come on since.. It might be because of timezones and him not having time, but I would really like to see him give more reads at this point.
In post 107, Marci gave a read list for the entire game, and had exactly 2 scum reads - Sama and iN3
I was thinking this sort of also. By "sort of" I mean, I sus them both as individual units, I don't really see them with any links to each other as of right now, though Samawoodoo has barely gave much reads, and in3kro has only like 4 posts..?
In post 162, Meuh wrote:The way Sama has been positioned and the way people have interacted with them have me uneasy
I should go and read back as to why I'm uneasy but when I ISOed ppl earlier to make the questions I felt like Sama was positioned in a way I could see them in a lot of different scumpairs, which is why i asked so many ppl about them
What scumpairs do you see him in?
tbh I wouldn't be surprised if hes scum... I expected him to be a bit more active/give a bit more reads since he said he's played before, he hasn't really casted suspicion onto anyone except in3kro, so I think if samawoodoo is scum in3kro wouldn't be..?
Samawoodoo
can you get in thread and give some reads/a readslist..?
In post 303, marcistar wrote:
so then like to explain about samawoodoo, it just seems like he did that because meuh has those kind of thoughts also. (like meuh said ur more townie... and then samawoodoo says ur more townie..) though he could just see meuh as a really townie town leader I guess..?
it just sort of seems like... not really buddying actually but... having too similar thoughts to her..?
In post 312, marcistar wrote:for the samawoodoo stuff: like, he just seems to be doing alot of what you are..? which is why i kinda thought meuh + samawoodoo might be the scumteam. (like meuh doing stuff, and samawoodoo being inexperienced scum, so he just copies what his partner (meuh) does.)
Sama does not mention Marci much, but he also lists her as potential scum when he does.
Spoiler:
In post 202, Samawoodo wrote:Marci was null, but i dont like how she feels worried about a null reading coming from an almost afk player (Toriii), is like she is trying to "demostrate" he is townie yes or yes, and this made me feel like
Day 2
Enter the VFP. I pointed this out in my Catboi post, but his entrance was to scum read both Marci, and Catboi. And he put the elim priority as Pear>Marci>Catboi
228 is a good post from town mind set plus pushing the game forward, but majority of their posting is just fence sitting and safe for me.
I can go into more detail if you want though but I'd rather lim here than Catboi from my bottom 3.
In post 533, VFP wrote:Meuh is always town here for me.
Marci lim works for me and I think we just win with Meuh, T3, and iN3krO as town here.
Marci scum makes NM town and iN3krO is plausibly the partner for 513
Marci town just means 2 scum in Pear, Catboi, and NM
But I think it is important to remember, that we all settled on the assumption that VFP pushed Pear to out the PR. So if he is going in with the game plan of Pear>Marci>Catboi, then the moment Pear gets Doc cleared that means it is
Pear
>Marci>Catboi, and leaves him with Marci as his stated preferred push.
Marci initial response to VFP's entrance was a scum read on him and then puts him in her solve
Spoiler:
In post 513, marcistar wrote:Otherwise, i'm not really sure.. but I think vfp feel kinda weird idk how to explain well, but like... well I just don't really like what he's done so far. since I townread pearofclubs, his read on them didn't really sit right with me originally. His thoughts could be valid tho, since he has an outsiders pov on it and wasn't there in the moments.. But idk it just seems to be pushing at really nothing..? Pearofclubs would be such an easy push for a scum to make without getting blood on their hands, since they're majorly townread.
There was very little evidence to me that they were partners, but I would be remiss if I ignored post 561, which is the only post where I saw potential partner interactions.
In post 560, Not_Mafia wrote:And you think day 2 when we stopped the kill n1 is time for a deep wolf push
Of course. Pear is getting off lightly for ticking the scum boxes.
The fact they still haven't gone over iN3krO after 2 requests makes me think they just can't generate another fake read. 542 also shows that they are not reading the game as I already stated why you and Marci aren't scum together.
I'll vote betwen Pear, Marci, and Catboi at this point.
Marci is currently E1 (I think?) and I'll hammer if it comes to it but I want some input first since little has been said since I joined in.
At no point have I said I am limited to Pear only.
VFP does not hammer Marci at E-1
My best guess is that VFP was still betting on a Tracker outing over Pear, especially since I replaced in and also pushed pear. And I mean, if he was holding out hammering marci in order to out the tracker, it paid off, NM did out himself.
Day 1: Sama started getting suspicion placed on him Day 1. Catboi town read him, and questioned everyone who was suspicious of him ; Marci doubled down and repeatedly explained why she had him in her top two scum reads.
Day 2: VFP replaced in. Catboi town read him; Marci placed him in her scum team solve.
And VFP put his elim priority as
Enter the VFP. I pointed this out in my Catboi post, but his entrance was to scum read both Marci, and Catboi. And he put the elim priority as Pear>Marci>Catboi
228 is a good post from town mind set plus pushing the game forward, but majority of their posting is just fence sitting and safe for me.
I can go into more detail if you want though but I'd rather lim here than Catboi from my bottom 3.
In post 533, VFP wrote:Meuh is always town here for me.
Marci lim works for me and I think we just win with Meuh, T3, and iN3krO as town here.
Marci scum makes NM town and iN3krO is plausibly the partner for 513
Marci town just means 2 scum in Pear, Catboi, and NM
But I think it is important to remember, that we all settled on the assumption that VFP pushed Pear to out the PR. So if he is going in with the game plan of Pear>Marci>Catboi, then the moment Pear gets Doc cleared that means it is
Pear
>Marci>Catboi, and leaves him with Marci as his stated preferred push.
uhh you're misreading VFPs readslist... he has Catboi as scummier than Marci, not the other way around. Which means with Pear out of the picture... it's Catboi
Also just generally speaking, actions speak louder than words, Marci had Sama as a scumread for a while but failed to ever vote for him (not necessarily uncharacteristic, Marci doesn't vote that often or that early in general but still), but when traction picked up on me, she voted for me. and VFP "scumread" Marci, but never voted for her, while he did vote for Catboi.
VFP had the backing to hammer Marci in terms of established reads and mechanical opportunity and it didn't happen, he wasn't even on the wagon despite her being a scumread of his, but he WAS on the Catboi wagon (timing with Pear being cleared relates to this, but still)
This case doesn't really do it for me. Marci fails to make an argument beyond Sama being less active than she'd expect until we'd gotten past 300 posts. Also, Marci's thing against Sama repeating reads quickly gets tied to the case against me and Catboi and shoved to the side with us being prioritized, by the time wagons are being discussed and reads matter, poof, Marci shifts to me and Catboi over Sama.
Sama's post on her point out a singular thing she did that slightly ticked him off, I find cases based on singular posts or interactions to be easy for scum to make against their partners as they're easy to dismiss down the line since there isn't a real case being made, just a singular slightly scummy thing.
I think t3's lil push for jailor to out is kinda scummy, also how he hammered norwegianboyee so soon after he entered the game... just feels like he didn't wanna give the effort to give in depth reads
Otherwise, i'm not really sure.. but I think vfp feel kinda weird idk how to explain well, but like... well I just don't really like what he's done so far. since I townread pearofclubs, his read on them didn't really sit right with me originally. His thoughts could be valid tho, since he has an outsiders pov on it and wasn't there in the moments.. But idk it just seems to be pushing at really nothing..? Pearofclubs would be such an easy push for a scum to make without getting blood on their hands, since they're majorly townread.
So like my order would prob be t3 -> vfp -> catboi -> not mafia -> pearofclubs -> meuh
When Not_Mafia puts the "VFP or Catboi" choice into the thread. Scum team catboi+VFP have no choice but to cross vote. But Marci could have agreed with me, and tried to shift the decision to catboi. In that scenario, I was the one being vocal about it not being VFP, so I would have been the obvious partner for him, not her.
Like, there is not an concrete posts from either one saying "I am / am not partners with Sama/VFP." But reading through catboi's iso, he is consistently trying to shift suspicion away from that slot. Like all Day 1 and all Day 2, start to finish.
He gives Sama an early town lean, comes to his defense every time someone puts a scum read out on him. When VFP swaps in, he gives him a town read too, and even after Not_Mafia puts the "VFP or Catboi" thing out there, he still keeps making a case that we should actually vote me over VFP.
So overall, I can see a lot of Catboi's posts coming from the angle of trying to help his scum buddy.
On the flip side, I never see Marci do anything to help her potential partner, even when she could have reasonably done so without drawing suspicion to herself. Like even after the entire thread believed her PR claim, and had her listed as a confirmed townie, she still did not try in the slightest to shift the vote to either catboi or to me (the two other competing wagons at the end of Day 2)
So pears town okai. At this point its looking more like a VFP X Lukewarm.
Here again she's trying to tie lukewarm to VFP before he flips. Remember what I said about how scum like to tie people to their partners preflip? This feels like more of that.
{snip}
In post 883, marcistar wrote:this game feels so solved already should we just end phase now..?
In post 877, Lukewarm wrote:I think the only other thing we could do before we pass the vote is for Meuh, Pear, and Marci to all voice their opinion on me vs catboi tomorrow, just in case the vote on T3 does not end the game. In that scenario, which ever one of you do die overnight will have left something to help Day 4
I feel like it would be more likely you, i feel like catbois too helpful to be scum.
I'm so stressed rn because of classes i'm sorry i haven't been here so often. i feel so useless.
But now, here, on day 3, after VFP has flipped, marci doesn't mention anything of her VFPxLukewarm read from the day before, she's content to let us hang back and eliminate T3 without much protest. She barely mentions he read from the day beore, not even to say she's changed it, and that to me is suspicious.
Right here, catboi's case completely ignores the fact that she had T3 listed as her number 1 scum read for almost all of Day 3 ( 485 / 513 / 549 / 552), and also when she said that in her mind VFP's partners were narrowed down to me/T3 before VFP flipped (771)
Catboi skipped over all of that, and tried to make is seem suspicious that she would be okay with T3 vote on Day3, because he cherry picked the single post she made where she only mentioned me+vfp and did not mention T3
Looking at her iso, does it feel like the town!Marci or the scum!Marci you have played with before?
I've played with scum!Marci twice before. Both of those games were offsite. The latest one was 8 months ago, I don't have access to an archive of it, and I was scum with her so I wasn't really paying attention to her behaviour. The other was 10 months ago, I also can't see it and she got elimed day 1, but she was this weird exeXmafia fusion role with a target assigned and got caught off tunneling her target, so the little I do remember doesn't mean much
I barely remember anything from those games and there's enough time since them for her to have changed her playstyle, I honestly can't give you an analysis of scum!Marci vs 2061!Marci
In post 1041, Lukewarm wrote:Ah, I see. I guess I misunderstood y'all play history lol
So are you leaning towards it being Marci, or are you just still on the fence?
Spoiler:
C) None of the above
the thoughts from my little reflection earlier in 1023 still hold up, I think Catboi's scum here. I just think it's easier to disagree with points being made and point out things I think are wrong or inconsistent than to agree with what people are saying, and since you're arguing against catboi and for marci, i end up doing the opposite
I'm saying I didn't agree with some of the points in your case, not that I disagreed with its' conclusion (Catboi being scum)
not sure I'm confident enough to commit to a Catboi elim yet though
Also I just noticed Norwee is still the person with the third highest post count he literally died day 1
Speaking of day 1 it started literally a month ago??? what??? feels like 2 weeks at most wow
In post 1034, Lukewarm wrote:When Not_Mafia puts the "VFP or Catboi" choice into the thread. Scum team catboi+VFP have no choice but to cross vote. But Marci could have agreed with me, and tried to shift the decision to catboi. In that scenario, I was the one being vocal about it not being VFP, so I would have been the obvious partner for him, not her.
All of Lukewarm's new points resonate with me very much
and I do think Marci's the kind of player who would come to her partner's defense, I don't think she would be throwing her partner under the bus and moving on, and if she was she'd have been more blatant about it instead of picking this awkward middle ground of contributing to VFP's elim, but also not getting much towncred out of it.
Like if you present scum!Marci with 3 options:
A) Take the opportunity to jump onto Catboi, turn the tides and likely save VFP
B) Start bussing VFP for that juicy towncred
C) Stay on VFP, let your partner die and barely get any towncred out of it
Why would she pick C?
I'm seeing lukewarm has descended into a confirmation biased tunnel against me. I recognize this behavior and it's almost impossible to talk someone out of it but I'll try.
In post 1045, Meuh wrote:and I do think Marci's the kind of player who would come to her partner's defense, I don't think she would be throwing her partner under the bus and moving on, and if she was she'd have been more blatant about it instead of picking this awkward middle ground of contributing to VFP's elim, but also not getting much towncred out of it.
Why would she need to? At the time, everyone assumed her claim was confirmed town. She was facing no suspicion. In this scenario you don't need "towncred" and it's significantly easier to go with the flow. It was entirely possible no one would have suspected her at any point.
idk how to explain well, but like... well I just don't really like what he's done so far. since I townread pearofclubs, his read on them didn't really sit right with me originally. His thoughts could be valid tho, since he has an outsiders pov on it and wasn't there in the moments.. But idk it just seems to be pushing at really nothing..? Pearofclubs would be such an easy push for a scum to make without getting blood on their hands, since they're majorly townread.
i'm sorry i haven't been here so often. i feel so useless.
Both of those games were offsite. The latest one was 8 months ago, I don't have access to an archive of it, and I was scum with her so I wasn't really paying attention to her behaviour. The other was 10 months ago, I also can't see it and she got elimed day 1, but she was this weird exeXmafia fusion role with a target assigned and got caught off tunneling her target, so the little I do remember doesn't mean much
