In post 1005, Roden wrote:I do think it's possible T3 is scum, but his thought process here is similar to what I've seen in his past town games. Grandpa ultimately has the final word though since he's the only one that can hammer. If he thinks it's T3 I'm completely open to hearing his case, since I'm never gonna live this down if we fuck up at the end after such a strong D1.
This is my only active game atm so it's got my full attention.
can u explain that process/
It's because he went for a gambit with the intention to help town, regardless of whether or not he actually helped town. T3's gambits tend to help the opposite alignment of his own, since he doesn't ever tell people what his gambits actually are until they've already happened. It isn't a hard meta tell, but I don't think I'm saying anything that's incorrect.
If there's no Tracker then we play normally. If there is a Tracker then if there's a Jailkweper they should Jail the Tracker. If there's a FN they should target the Tracker. If there's a Doctor they should protect the Tracker.
Once day 2 hapens we massclaim.
If Doctor/FN is run up to E-1 then just claim 'PR'.
In post 44, T3 wrote:Mafias don't know if there's a FN or a Doctor.
How is this not a Doc soft? Why would I not think you were Doc here?
I am getting strong town sense from Margot, contrary to what some others have said. It seems like she is really trying to sort -- some internal back and forth is good. I really liked 53 although I didn't check the math. It reads to me like a newbie who is really determined to put in the work.
Hockey is a town lean for me, though I disagree with the argument in 94 that withholding information is
always
anti-town. If someone is trying to bait a trap or is an investigation role who doesn't want to share results until they have a guilty, etc, there are some cases where that's good to hold back. If T3 was trying to do a spicy town play, which is totally T3, then not spelling out the details is beneficial. But the way that he's making his argument reads town, even if I disagree with it. Although I just realized it could be scum trying to get info on what the play is. Still not enough to change my read though.
T3 is probably town for the exact reason that Hockey outlined -- it's a huge gambit for scum to do right out the gate, so it seems unlikely.
Roden is null. 77 struck me as weird as well, but I don't see why scum would town lock T3 after that risky play. Then again, he then went on to walk back that town lock in 91.
Clasko and Egix are null.
The Astra slot is a sliiiiight scum lean because even with so few posts and the swift replace out, it seemed like she might have been jumping on the LQ wagon, and her RVS vote was also a wagon.
LQ -- I get a bad sense from 125. It reads a bit like complaining about getting scumread with a liiitle smidgeon of omgus, especially considering they imply that T3's gambit isn't scummy in 57 before bringing in a little more setup speculation.
The main thing that gives me pause is the very fact that LQ is a wagon already. It could be a quick and easy miselim. I also have no interest in pushing anyone to E-1 right now, so I'll leave my vote on the Astra slot for now to put a little extra fire on whoever joins in.
Roden knows exactly what is going on and he is locktown for that.
Did you think I knew you were using a strat from a completely different ongoing game?
In post 333, Clasko wrote:Also wanna ask SM who their two strongest elimination candidates are rn for D1, and why?
I say two, because one is most likely me which you've hinted the potential reasons for in #279 and iterating that doesn't say much.
I say Roden or you right now is my top two candidates for scum has to be you and the former is honestly better to flip than your slot. Roden elim. To me, getting some information involving the meta (of T3 and Roden) is probably more useful than eliminating you because of what some people here consider a slip.
In post 339, StrangeMatter wrote:Even if this flips green it means we still have some sort of information, so either way I think this vote is fine.
Imagine threatening to vote a townie out because they refuse to out town power roles. This is such an overtly scummy thought process you might as well be scum claiming.
VOTE: Strange
This is the earliest I directly mention power roles wrt T3. I don't know how I can make it clearer I thought you were Doc.
How would I know about this strat though? I don't typically read ongoing games that I'm not a part of.
In post 983, T3 wrote:I thought you were like "hmmmmmm yes where did t3 get this strat and he won't say why
*looks at ongoing game'*
ok must be town" VOTE: margot
what happened to this @roden?
Nothing, this just felt like a genuine explanation of his thought process, so I had nothing left to say there.
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:22 am
by GrandpaMo
In post 168, T3 wrote:Honestly I just get bad vibes from LQ.
PROTECTIVE SHOULD ALWAYS BE ON TH TRACKER
how did u know there was tracker atp in the game? i dont believe tracker claimed. did u have tmi that tracker was in the game? + protective
In post 1005, Roden wrote:I do think it's possible T3 is scum, but his thought process here is similar to what I've seen in his past town games. Grandpa ultimately has the final word though since he's the only one that can hammer. If he thinks it's T3 I'm completely open to hearing his case, since I'm never gonna live this down if we fuck up at the end after such a strong D1.
This is my only active game atm so it's got my full attention.
can u explain that process/
It's because he went for a gambit with the intention to help town, regardless of whether or not he actually helped town. T3's gambits tend to help the opposite alignment of his own, since he doesn't ever tell people what his gambits actually are until they've already happened. It isn't a hard meta tell, but I don't think I'm saying anything that's incorrect.
what did t3 do to help town. margot did more and actually pushed the lq vote while t3 kept flipping if lq was town or scum. they say they had bad vibes > then townread them > then scumread them > then townread them and hammer them
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:26 am
by Roden
Grandpa, if T3 is scum then do you believe he no-killed N1? Or do you think he targeted the Tracker?
For me, in the world where T3 is scum I think he'd have to no-kill. Assuming his explanation of his gambit is a lie, he would've known that I thought he was Doc, so if anyone but him died then that would tip me off that he was scum. In this scenario, that is exactly why he's adamant in saying that he didn't realize I thought he was Doc, because that would make me question what happened on N1. Which...actually makes a lot of sense.
In post 1005, Roden wrote:I do think it's possible T3 is scum, but his thought process here is similar to what I've seen in his past town games. Grandpa ultimately has the final word though since he's the only one that can hammer. If he thinks it's T3 I'm completely open to hearing his case, since I'm never gonna live this down if we fuck up at the end after such a strong D1.
This is my only active game atm so it's got my full attention.
can u explain that process/
It's because he went for a gambit with the intention to help town, regardless of whether or not he actually helped town. T3's gambits tend to help the opposite alignment of his own, since he doesn't ever tell people what his gambits actually are until they've already happened. It isn't a hard meta tell, but I don't think I'm saying anything that's incorrect.
what did t3 do to help town. margot did more and actually pushed the lq vote while t3 kept flipping if lq was town or scum. they say they had bad vibes > then townread them > then scumread them > then townread them and hammer them
That's the thing, the gambit didn't really work. I don't think he helped town much, but I think if he's town then it was just him making a mistake.
If there's no Tracker then we play normally. If there is a Tracker then if there's a Jailkweper they should Jail the Tracker. If there's a FN they should target the Tracker. If there's a Doctor they should protect the Tracker.
Once day 2 hapens we massclaim.
If Doctor/FN is run up to E-1 then just claim 'PR'.
When I ISO dived him earlier this made me pause and think it was possibly a perspective slip about knowing we're in Column 2. But when I checked the set up chart I realized Jailer + Tracker is actually Column 1. At Day 1 though this is what played a big part in me thinking he was Doc since he seemed to be informed.
On this, I think personally it was posted just to make me even more confused and less likely to trust myself.
Admittedly this is protagonising a bit, but just feels like T3 trying to make me seem even less Townie by making me turn on everyone.
For what it's worth, all my chips are staying on T3 no matter what
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:02 am
by MargotRosa
In post 1030, Roden wrote:Grandpa, if T3 is scum then do you believe he no-killed N1? Or do you think he targeted the Tracker?
For me, in the world where T3 is scum I think he'd have to no-kill. Assuming his explanation of his gambit is a lie, he would've known that I thought he was Doc, so if anyone but him died then that would tip me off that he was scum. In this scenario, that is exactly why he's adamant in saying that he didn't realize I thought he was Doc, because that would make me question what happened on N1. Which...actually makes a lot of sense.
On this, I've been thinking about it and I'd say T3 no-killed, but for another reason.
Like, calculus for a scum when they are playing 1v5 is completely different from 2v4, especially when investigative role is a tracker rather than a cop.
In the latter instance, you want to get rid of as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
In the former, you don't necessarily, especially if there is a chance that you'll be outed as scum if AND ONLY IF you take a night action. Tracker can't work out you're scum unless they track you when you move, and you can bide your time until the doctor is forced to out themselves by virtue of a threat of being lim'd by Town, and/or you can be sure that the tracker won't watch your slot to out you as the scum. As it is, waiting one day was perfect, because it meant that when it got down to elo, there were 4, rather than 3, which is much better odds for scum (Town have a 3/4, rather than 2/3 chance of getting it wrong, all else being equal). On top of that, a more experienced player puts all the pressure on players who would otherwise have targeted the tracker and gets all the heat off of them.
In short, it makes the most tactical sense, as I see it, for scum to no kill until doctor is revealed, and I think T3 has been playing long enough to have worked that out
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:05 am
by MargotRosa
Kind of nice, personally, to have worked out my niche a bit in my first game.
Spent too much time as a neurodivergent mathematician and political economist to play to the emotional game very well. The analytical, data side of this game is where I reckon I will shine
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:24 am
by T3
In post 1025, GrandpaMo wrote:t3 uses the excuse that they hammered lq. they hammered lq when townreading lq.
In post 1030, Roden wrote:Grandpa, if T3 is scum then do you believe he no-killed N1? Or do you think he targeted the Tracker?
For me, in the world where T3 is scum I think he'd have to no-kill. Assuming his explanation of his gambit is a lie, he would've known that I thought he was Doc, so if anyone but him died then that would tip me off that he was scum. In this scenario, that is exactly why he's adamant in saying that he didn't realize I thought he was Doc, because that would make me question what happened on N1. Which...actually makes a lot of sense.
On this, I've been thinking about it and I'd say T3 no-killed, but for another reason.
Like, calculus for a scum when they are playing 1v5 is completely different from 2v4, especially when investigative role is a tracker rather than a cop.
In the latter instance, you want to get rid of as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
In the former, you don't necessarily, especially if there is a chance that you'll be outed as scum if AND ONLY IF you take a night action. Tracker can't work out you're scum unless they track you when you move, and you can bide your time until the doctor is forced to out themselves by virtue of a threat of being lim'd by Town, and/or you can be sure that the tracker won't watch your slot to out you as the scum. As it is, waiting one day was perfect, because it meant that when it got down to elo, there were 4, rather than 3, which is much better odds for scum (Town have a 3/4, rather than 2/3 chance of getting it wrong, all else being equal). On top of that, a more experienced player puts all the pressure on players who would otherwise have targeted the tracker and gets all the heat off of them.
In short, it makes the most tactical sense, as I see it, for scum to no kill until doctor is revealed, and I think T3 has been playing long enough to have worked that out
holy shit roden
do u rlly think scum newb says this
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:43 am
by Roden
Why do you think I'm doubting myself the longer this goes on?
If there's no Tracker then we play normally. If there is a Tracker then if there's a Jailkweper they should Jail the Tracker. If there's a FN they should target the Tracker. If there's a Doctor they should protect the Tracker.
Once day 2 hapens we massclaim.
If Doctor/FN is run up to E-1 then just claim 'PR'.
When I ISO dived him earlier this made me pause and think it was possibly a perspective slip about knowing we're in Column 2. But when I checked the set up chart I realized Jailer + Tracker is actually Column 1. At Day 1 though this is what played a big part in me thinking he was Doc since he seemed to be informed.
What do you think of this Grandpa?
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:06 pm
by Roden
T3, why aren't you saying anything against Margot's case on you?
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:09 pm
by T3
i've kinda been ignoring this game
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:22 pm
by Roden
Oof.
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:01 pm
by MargotRosa
In post 1042, T3 wrote:i've kinda been ignoring this game