FFVII Mafia: Over

[armlx]

@CarnCarn:

unvote

for now. I'm not really sure anymore. I'm still a little concerned at the possibility of lynching a pro-town power role, even if it isn't the most useful of claimed abilities (which also makes me think he isn't scum).

Huh? Who is a power role? CML certainly isnt.

[MrBuddyLee]

There is no way a doctor protected Albert last night. Therefore, a failed vig on Albert means he is bulletproof.

If he was a bulletproof townie he'd have let us know by now. He's bulletproof scum who set up a convenient story to explain his survival after a cop claim. I'll reread his play for nuance, but I don't see him as town at this point. If someone else sees a reasonable alternative explanation, please provide it posthaste.

confirm vote: Albert

[MrBuddyLee]

There's a chance CarnCarn is lying scum protecting scumpartner Liam, but not a huge chance.

[MrBuddyLee]

And you auto-assume the doc protected him after xtoxm turned up not scum? Given his history?

No, my point is that Albert's

intention

was to draw a doc protect. If xtoxm came up scum, Albert would have drawn the doc protect, which we now know is an anti-town play because at BEST Albert is a bulletproof townie who is not in need of a doc protect.

A bulletproof townie calling for a doc protect? I don't buy it. Albert is scum. Probably an SK, as bulletproof godfather is less prevalent than bulletproof SK in a large game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well I'm Cid. I'm a watcher. Flavor is my ship is crashed but I can use it at night to follow people. I targeted christinao drago last night and got no result.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Carncran and MBL you are wayy overthinking things. I planned the doc protect to have cover for NK immunity? Implausible..

[CarnCarn]

There is nothing indicating that he is scum, while we have the poor actions of Callmeliam to look back to - Trying to detour the lynch towards someone who made what looks like a newbie mistake rather than attempting to "Catch someone in a lie" when and if Armlx or Xtoxm turned up town.

I should have seen this earlier. CML tried to derail the lynch of someone who ended up town. What an obviously scummy thing to do! (/sarcasm)
People have mentioned this before as something against CML. Is this really the reason people are voting him? I doubt something this weak would draw 10/11 votes. Hopefully someone can better explain how this is at all a scum-tell against CML.

Now, as for why ABR is scummy. I've thought he was scummy even before I joined the game (I did a read through; it was probably about 35 pages when I joined), even after reading the arguments of his meta. After joining and learning my role, some of his posts hit me as especially suspicious. I like Yos2's SK argument very much in light of what I know about my N1 actions, and the low odds of a roleblock or doc protect (which I again believe was ABR's attempt to find a perfect cover, just in case xtoxm DID flip scum).
ABR, for being the most suspicious target D2 and for behaving in such blatantly anti-town fashion, has provided very little information about his own self, and yet people are willing to let it slide because of a meta argument (which is pretty weak, IMO; I've explained some of my reasons for it already). I find his non-commital to a role EXTREMELY scummy. If he knew he was likely to be taken out, why not claim one of the most powerful characters, Cid? If he's lucky, he might be able to out the real one. Or, of course, Cid as safeclaim, which has already been mentioned (I don't really like this explanation, though; it just seems unlikely that such a big character would only be a safeclaim in this game).

In any case, I find these reasons much more convincing to vote for ABR than the one you gave to vote for CML.

[CarnCarn]

Well I'm Cid. I'm a watcher. Flavor is my ship is crashed but I can use it at night to follow people. I targeted christinao drago last night and got no result.

Does this role/flavor make any sense with the theme? I'm don't know enough about this theme to know, but it seems not to make sense.
Watcher is also what Barret was. Not saying there can't be multiple, but somehow your claim in general seems dubious (although FF fans, feel free to correct my logic).

[Zakeri]

I dunno. Somehow the Mako Telescope makes more sense. Although, I do believe it's true if the ship in question was the Airplane.

I think it also detracks from the SK scenerio, even if it's only his word versus yours. I'm inclined to believe it was a doctor that protected him, although the affiliation of the doctor is called into question. It could be a Mafia doc protecting ABR either because he is scum with safe claim or because he's likely delicious bandwagon material. It could also be because a Doctor was convinced he was worth protecting because he wouldn't claim Cid unless he was, and even though he wasn't the cop, he could still be an important person.

Although, now that I think about it, I don't really understand what sort of flavor would have been provided to Barret to be a watcher. If anything, I'd think he'd be one of the Vigs that seem to be going around.

[Zakeri]

Edit: I would think he would have been one of the (many) Vigs this game seems to have.

[CarnCarn]

Edit: I would think he would have been one of the (many) Vigs this game seems to have.

Why do you say many? There were 3 kills N1 (my guess is mafia, SK, vig?). And I'm not a vig; I'm a Jack of All Trades role.

[MrBuddyLee]

Albert's new claim and flavor:

Well I'm Cid. I'm a watcher. Flavor is my ship is crashed but I can use it at night to follow people. I targeted christinao drago last night and got no result.

Note: the ship is crashed but he can still somehow pilot it to follow people.

Albert's old claim and flavor:

IM A DAYCOP
in the aftermath of the airship battles where the Sierra is severely damaged, cid uses his knowledge of high-tier technology to build a spec scope that can detect abnormal levels of mako energy (jenova cells?) in their bloodstream. he can only use this once a day.

Note: the ship is severely damaged and so Cid builds a Cylon detector.

Carncran and MBL you are wayy overthinking things. I planned the doc protect to have cover for NK immunity? Implausible..

When you asked for the doc protect, you knew 100% you would get it if xtoxm came up scum. No doubt about it.

So why did you ask for it if you're a freaking watcher? You would be pulling that doc protect away from cops, vigilantes and other more powerful characters than yourself.

Why did you choose to watch drago?

Does anyone really think there are two watchers in this game?

[MrBuddyLee]

Carn Carn, can you please explain the mechanics of the Slots? Do you know what ability you're getting each night before you choose your target?

[CarnCarn]

Carn Carn, can you please explain the mechanics of the Slots? Do you know what ability you're getting each night before you choose your target?

Each night, I can use my Slots ability to randomly Kill, Investigate, Roleblock, or Protect. I do not know know which of these will be activated before I use it. I assume Westbrook's rationale (certainly this would also be my own rationale) for targeting ABR N1 is that, with equal probabilities, there is a 3/4 chance of Kill, Investigate, or Roleblock (all of which are reasonable actions against someone perceived as scum), and only 1/4 chance of Protect.

So why did you ask for it if you're a freaking watcher? You would be pulling that doc protect away from cops, vigilantes and other more powerful characters than yourself.

Well, this isn't really fair to ABR. He knew he would be the obvious scum target if he was right about xtoxm being scum (since he claimed day-cop), so I see this fitting in with his story.

Why did you choose to watch drago?

Yeah, this is strange. I would have guessed xtoxm's target, armlx would be a more logical choice, among others, but cd is kind of a strange pick. I can think of one reason why he choose cd, but I'll allow ABR to answer himself.

Does anyone really think there are two watchers in this game?

I wouldn't be shocked if there were two, but I doubt ABR's claim on a holistic level.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, then show me what he has done other then the whole lying thing (a null tell) that indicates him being scum over CML.

You mean, other then everything he did day 1?

[TonyMontana]

confirm vote:ABR

The claim doesn't sit right with me.

A treat for FF7 fans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgf0HOfUSGM

[GhostWriter]

I've always found there to be no point in confirming a vote.

[TonyMontana]

Well, it's kinda making a statement about preceding events.

[iamausername]

OK, the way I see it, there are two possibilities here; either ABR is scum, or CarnCarn was blocked last night. I can't imagine why CarnCarn would possibly lie about attempting to kill ABR last night in this situation (of course, I also said that about ABR counterclaiming Xtoxm yesterday...), and I can't see ABR attracting doctor protection after being proven a liar yesterday.

The thing is, I can't see what CarnCarn's predecessor Westbrook did on D1 that would attract the attention of a roleblocker of any alignment. Add that to ABR's weak flavour as a watcher (never mind the part where he's using a crashed ship, wouldn't 'following' make a lot more sense for a tracker than a watcher?), and I'm thinking Occam's Razor is telling me that ABR is scum who was given the name Cid as a safeclaim without any more details. Anything else just seems like it's really stretching the facts to fit to the theory, and really, I think anyone who's still defending ABR after Carn's claim is either just being really stubborn, or is trying to keep their buddy from being lynched.

Unvote, Vote: Albert B. Rampage

.

[TonyMontana]

OK, the way I see it, there are two possibilities here; either ABR is scum, or CarnCarn was blocked last night.

Or ABR, for some god-forsaken reason, got protection last night.

[iamausername]

The only way I see that happening is if ABR is scum, and one of his buddies is a scum doctor. Which falls under the umbrella of "ABR is scum".

I could believe that whatever vigs we have fell on the "ABR lying is a null tell" side of the argument and didn't target him, but I can't believe that any doctors would be convinced enough of his townliness to actually send a protection his way.

[armlx]

Idea I should have seen this earlier. CML tried to derail the lynch of someone who ended up town. What an obviously scummy thing to do! (/sarcasm)

UH......

In context of the scenario, without the info xtoxm was being an idiot, one of me and him HAD to be scum.

Watcher is also what Barret was

This is legit though. Counter claimed by a dead person = lols.

I'm willing to hammer based on that. Anything to say before I do that?

And CC, are you SURE you used the vig ability (aka mod confirmation)? Most times I've seen that role (its actually called a MUP) the person using it doesn't get confirmation of their ability. I mean, obviously they know that they used vig if the person dies or investigate if they get a result, but otherwise they have no clue.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Everyone should note how scummy MBL will look after I die.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Flavor is the ship is "heavily damaged but can still do short trips".

[Albert B. Rampage]

OH WOW LOL.

I'm a tracker not a watcher. I follow players to see who THEY targeted.

So I followed cristiano drago and he didn't target anyone night 1.