Mafiascum.net

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:42 am**

those aren't really antonyms to tight, cautious, analytical, thorough at all

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:48 am**

and it doesn't really match your description of my play either
for example, aren't you mad that i'm super conclusive? that i'm more ready to commit to uncertain reads than you are?

the answer might actually be "no" to that, and that's a weird thing about your case against me
you call me overconfident about some reads in one line but complain about my readiness to say "null" and acknowledge uncertainty in another?
looked at fully it seems like you're just mad that i have...reads of varying strength?

maybe i just have the advantage of my perspective, but there's just so little of substance in such a long post with so many links

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:53 am**

In post 1050, Psyche wrote:those aren't really antonyms to tight, cautious, analytical, thorough at all

In post 1051, Psyche wrote:and it doesn't really match your description of my play either
for example, aren't you mad that i'm super conclusive? that i'm more ready to commit to uncertain reads than you are?

the answer might actually be "no" to that, and that's a weird thing about your case against me
you call me overconfident about some reads in one line but complain about my readiness to say "null" and acknowledge uncertainty in another?
looked at fully it seems like you're just mad that i have...reads of varying strength?

maybe i just have the advantage of my perspective, but there's just so little of substance in such a long post with so many links

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:53 am**

Pressed submit by accident

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:02 am**

In post 1050, Psyche wrote:those aren't really antonyms to tight, cautious, analytical, thorough at all

I have seen players hunt by relaxed play. That's not what you're doing here.

In post 1051, Psyche wrote:and it doesn't really match your description of my play either
for example, aren't you mad that i'm super conclusive? that i'm more ready to commit to uncertain reads than you are?

the answer might actually be "no" to that, and that's a weird thing about your case against me
you call me overconfident about some reads in one line but complain about my readiness to say "null" and acknowledge uncertainty in another?
looked at fully it seems like you're just mad that i have...reads of varying strength?

maybe i just have the advantage of my perspective, but there's just so little of substance in such a long post with so many links

You aren't conclusive at all, at least by what i think the word "conclusive" implies. If you mean to say that you jump to conclusions without passing through reasoning, then yes, you're super conclusive. I usually associate conclusiveness with the concept of deducing/inducing motives about <something>, and then declare that <something>. You are overconfident about how this game should go, and about very few specific reads (which include yourself, no less), but you have no reasoning to back your reads up, and no scumreads at all.

Last but not least, these two posts seem to be specifically aimed at turning my question back at me rather than answering it. Do you have any reads? Post them. Do you have reasoning to back up such reads? Post reasoning.

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:04 am**

would love to throw more red meat into the game but im wary of getting too engaged again and neglecting my job
i'm liking replica more for town these days. suppose it's smarter to save attempts at any detailed towncases for after scum takes a kill, though, right?
rather wary of chemist but if we had to lynch today he wouldn't be a very likely target at all
hectic still seems a fine spare. people are insisting that he's not, but all those cases suck. i could try harder to push the read, but it is pretty early in the day.
alimdia's slot is the closest thing to a scumread ive had in years. the iso genuinely reads as someone just going through the motions of scumhunting. some people are just disengaged, sure, but for a solid portion of the game alimdia more-or-less wasn't: they were engaged but producing shit anyway. it makes me feel better about it that the replacement isn't pinging very differently, though of course he's more outwardly shit; even that only looks like a "too scum" strategy to me. i'd be willing to lynch it just to get quicker feedback on whether i have any scumsense or not. there's a romance to a 4 spare win, but it'd be fun to win by the end of D3 too, yeah?

In post 106, Nachomamma8 wrote:I feel surprisingly good about Hectic being town, considering it being page 5 and all.

There's a gorgeous feel good concoction brewing over there - a healthy mix of a strong, confident tone and a gimmick that I believe scum would be less comfortable implementing than town. The combination of both gives a loose cannon feel which I feel is significantly less likely coming from scum - as scum, you are forced to contend with your partners whispering in your ear and also silently sort of judging you whenever you are doing something crazy as Hectic is doing now whereas as town the people who lynch you are technically wrong, so it often feels less risky to go off the ranch in significant a way as Hectic has.

Now, some people might point out that Sherlock is also doing a gimmick and no I don't think it has anything to do with his alignment - that's his posting in general (aka seems like someone made a gimmick alt) and thus there's an expectation that he keeps up with it/a higher chance that's something he decided to do when he made the alt as opposed to a gametime decision like Hectic likely made here.

In the bits of scumhunting that he's done there's not obviously a ton but I do like that he pointed out the +town on Chemist's entrance. I don't understand why Billy ends up his spare vote instead of the Chemist (why go for the diluted townjuice when you can go for the pure stuff?), but I'm digging his vibes and so for now he is my spirit animal.

this post by nachomamma is still quite a strong one; his discourse surrounding the spare/hurt dilemma was clean too, and he pointed out convincing info demonstrating suji town even before SH came in and removed all doubt
even with his flakiness lately (and yeah that hurts my read of him), i still feel like a nachotown case is surprisingly easy to cohesively make. it's so easy to distinguish his vigor from that of someone like alimdea.

oh right but i'm supposed to avoid making towncases for anyone but hectic today ugh
i suppose it's too much to overthink this - it's a dangerous slope to start being ambiguous about my reads, especially if i'm hoping to be a viable spare candidate later on
the pressure towards ambiguity could be a good reason to lynch scum that i previously ignored though

ok that's all i'm doing today i hope.

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:05 am**

In post 1054, Farkran wrote:
In post 1050, Psyche wrote:those aren't really antonyms to tight, cautious, analytical, thorough at all
I have seen players hunt by relaxed play. That's not what you're doing here.

In post 1051, Psyche wrote:and it doesn't really match your description of my play either
for example, aren't you mad that i'm super conclusive? that i'm more ready to commit to uncertain reads than you are?

the answer might actually be "no" to that, and that's a weird thing about your case against me
you call me overconfident about some reads in one line but complain about my readiness to say "null" and acknowledge uncertainty in another?
looked at fully it seems like you're just mad that i have...reads of varying strength?

maybe i just have the advantage of my perspective, but there's just so little of substance in such a long post with so many links
You aren't conclusive at all, at least by what i think the word "conclusive" implies. If you mean to say that you jump to conclusions without passing through reasoning, then yes, you're super conclusive. I usually associate conclusiveness with the concept of deducing/inducing motives about <something>, and then declare that <something>. You are overconfident about how this game should go, and about very few specific reads (which include yourself, no less), but you have no reasoning to back your reads up, and no scumreads at all.

Last but not least, these two posts seem to be specifically aimed at turning my question back at me rather than answering it. Do you have any reads? Post them. Do you have reasoning to back up such reads? Post reasoning.

i think this is a misrepresentation; i've posted a lot of really detailed analyses of motivations and mindset. my work on sujimichi and sherlock come to mind. more will come up as they strike me. and i already had a lot of reads in my iso before my last post. you gotta try to do more with the content you have if you want to have ok reads someday.

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:07 am**

In post 1054, Farkran wrote:
In post 1050, Psyche wrote:those aren't really antonyms to tight, cautious, analytical, thorough at all
I have seen players hunt by relaxed play. That's not what you're doing here.

this sidesteps the observation that you posed some adjectives as a contrast / in opposition to those i listed that didn't really fit the bill

ok i really should go

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:12 am**

Suji and sherlock? You mean the IC who slipped the towniest post that ever existed in the forums, and the one who discovered it and died n1? Must have been some hard effort

Really, the only reason i'm not powerlynching you today is because i have someone else in mind and i know how apathetic town can be sometimes and it's not -always- AI.

pedit: not as much as you dodging my question. I would have expected a Chara scumread, based on your 981. What do you think of Chara?

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:22 am**

You couldn't powerlynch me if you tried. The case is just too weak.

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:23 am**

In post 1058, Farkran wrote:I would have expected a Chara scumread, based on your 981. What do you think of Chara?

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:24 am**

people talk a big game about sujimchi/sh now but several players then were insisting that his towniness was an open question

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:39 am**

a parting shot:

In post 401, Farkran wrote:TOWN
Nacho
Amrun
Chara
Alimidia
Replica
Hectic
Chemist
--- TRUE NULL LINE ---
SherlockHolmes
Psyche
Sujimichi
SCUM

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:41 am**

(yeah that was before the townslip - i'm more making a comment about his robust process "of deducing/inducing motives about <something>, and then declaring that <something>")

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:36 am**

Lynch Bingle with me, Psyche. You know you want to.

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:41 am**

so this lecture is mind-numbing and i should have stayed in bed. how are things going.

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:44 am**

In post 1039, Bingle wrote:Okay. I’m townreading Farkran from the last three pages. Fark, what should I be voting for?

Wouldn’t trust psyche or Amrun to watch the tip jar at a Starbucks. If Fark disappoints I’m probably defaulting to chem as a recent poster who doesn’t give me ick feelings.

are your reads based on vibes or something else?

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:46 am**

i also don't know why Hectic is a bad spare. if you're not sure he's town then grill the hell out of him until you're sure.
Amrun you can try to convince me on Bingle if you'd like. remind me of your read on Farkran?

also i know i had something to respond to, i'll get to it.

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:51 am**

this is important so i'll repeat it. pursuing both spares and fights seriously is more valuable than only pursuing spares, even if you ultimately want a spare.

Psyche has some short walls, that's exciting.
regarding being cagey about towncasing: i still don't know if it will do more harm than good.

i do scumread Farkran but i don't love Psyche's angle of "anyone not hard townreading Sujimichi from his play should have been" because it's both hindsighty and silly to expect everyone will read him the same way.

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:34 am**

@Psyche i still don't see your opinion of Chara, by the way.

@Chara incidentally, what's your opinion of Psyche today, besides not liking his angle? Also has your readlist changed, or are you still lost in the tunnel? You say pursuing fights has value - so, i'd like to hear who you would consider my potential partner since sherlock has been conftowned by death and i am also scumreading psyche (picked those names directly from your latest readlist in 570).

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:20 am**

i dontthink it's hindsighty i voiced these same sentiments in the moment
besides sujimishi's thing is our closest thing to a flip rn besides the night kill; it's probably worthy of more analysis than we've so far afforded it

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:46 am**

i'm undecided on Psyche. speaking of, it's hindsighty because you referenced Sujimichi's actions pre-claim and pre-Sherlock's tell, and so now that we know Sujimichi is town you can go back and say "look, i was right in this townread, you all should have seen it then as well", when i don't agree that Suji was obvtown enough to say anyone scumreading them deserves a scumlean. to go back to an earlier point, scum correctly call town town all the time.
i'm guessing your Amrun (and someone else i've forgotten) scumreads come from Sujimichi in some way?

i'd also like a read on me.

my list has changed, sure. i don't think it's fair to say i'm tunneling you either, Farkran. tunnel-vision implies i'm both looking nowhere else and considering nothing else.

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:48 am**

and on partners: i don't do preflip partner analysis. waste of time and not in my skillset.

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:49 am**

you misunderstood my point about sujimichi

Posted: **Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:52 am**

In post 1047, Psyche wrote:all your reads seem super wrong

while there are just some weird contradictions in your reasoning (for example you quote a post where i acknowledge where scum will kill townclears, but elsewhere you say i don't consider that consensus townreads are gonna die kinda weird), in general i think the systemic problem with the way you develop reads is that you associate towniness far too readily w/ tight, cautious, analytical, thorough play - or more specifically w/ play and positioning like yours

pedit: can you explain it again in a different way?
think that's the lesson you'll hopefully pick up once the game's all said and done

i have to agree here, if Farkran is town this is the problem i'm having. i'm not convinced of that however.

i had a problem with Psyche's focus on Sujimichi (and his being right on Suji and Sherlock) but i don't hate the rest of the content. i don't think we're the same type of player (and for some reason i think i've had a negative opinion of Psyche's attitude this game) but i do think we form townreads in a similar way.

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