Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 12:13 pm
I'm down to hammer test rn ![Cool :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
![Cool :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
What do you mean by this? Hammer test me?In post 1049, catboi wrote:If you're here, I'd like to hammer test now, before I go into arguing further.
You put too much stock in hollow words, and not enough in actions. So he said he'd prefer to lim her - what steps did he take towards actually making that happen?In post 1030, Lukewarm wrote:He put both in his bottom 3, made a case against pear, then said he would rather elim Marci over catboi.
So elim priority was pear > Marci > catboi
I guess my sarcasm didn't come through.In post 1058, Meuh wrote:2 days left and I still don't know who I want elimedMELO is too hard I really wish I was dead rn
You're shocked, Catboi?![]()
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Actions speak louder than words is something you should always keep in mind, yep!In post 1060, catboi wrote:You put too much stock in hollow words, and not enough in actions. So he said he'd prefer to lim her - what steps did he take towards actually making that happen?In post 1030, Lukewarm wrote:He put both in his bottom 3, made a case against pear, then said he would rather elim Marci over catboi.
So elim priority was pear > Marci > catboi
You're viewing the game in overly simplistic terms . This tends to come from a lack of experience. Scum try to obscure connections between them. That's part of the game. You're seeing all the light distancing that took place between marci and her teammate, and assuming it somehow unaligns them, when in fact the opposite is true - they expressed suspicion of each other throughout the game but avoided exerting real pressure. That's textbook distancing. But you haven't played enough to realize this, you see something as basic as me misreading VFP and assuming we must be teamed because of that, when the opposite is true - I rarely ever defend a teammate the way I did VFP.
Will do! Not planning on hammering anytime soonIn post 1064, catboi wrote:VOTE: marcistar
I don't have time to respond in full right now, I'll be back after dinner. I'd appreciate it if you let me talk before making any decision.
I claim masons with Lukewarm, all other PR claims are fake, N_MxMarci scumteam incoming
Dead honest, here is how I operate: I look through people's ISOs and ctrl + F for mentions of flipped scum. that was how I pulled posts from marcistar. At that point in time, my main concern is not going over everything she said in explicit detail and making note of every post. At that point in time, I did not know who was mafia either. I was looking to solve between you and marcistar (Meuh wasn't a realistic possibility in my mind), and so I was looking for things that proved suspicious. So I zeroed in on posts that were important to me. That post in particular leapt out at me. If I gloss over the details it's not by design. But I don't think what you point out changes anything at all. In particular you seem to be giving 771 far too much credit - she explicitly says she thinks you could be partnered with VFP. The fact that she doesn't bring this up at all on day 3 is a sign she's not in a town mindset - she had no concern with solving or trying to look at the evidence, she just went with the flow and let us wagon T3 because it was necessary to win the game.In post 1037, Lukewarm wrote:I also felt like catboi's case against Marci required some mental gymnastics, and even required him to leave out some of her posts.Right here, catboi's case completely ignores the fact that she had T3 listed as her number 1 scum read for almost all of Day 3 ( 485 / 513 / 549 / 552), and also when she said that in her mind VFP's partners were narrowed down to me/T3 before VFP flipped (771)In post 934, catboi wrote:Here again she's trying to tie lukewarm to VFP before he flips. Remember what I said about how scum like to tie people to their partners preflip? This feels like more of that.In post 729, marcistar wrote:So pears town okai. At this point its looking more like a VFP X Lukewarm.In post 649, Not_Mafia wrote:I'm the doc, I was on Pear, now vote VFP or catboi
{snip}
But now, here, on day 3, after VFP has flipped, marci doesn't mention anything of her VFPxLukewarm read from the day before, she's content to let us hang back and eliminate T3 without much protest. She barely mentions he read from the day beore, not even to say she's changed it, and that to me is suspicious.In post 883, marcistar wrote:this game feels so solved already![]()
should we just end phase now..?
I feel like it would be more likely you, i feel like catbois too helpful to be scum.In post 877, Lukewarm wrote:I think the only other thing we could do before we pass the vote is for Meuh, Pear, and Marci to all voice their opinion on me vs catboi tomorrow, just in case the vote on T3 does not end the game. In that scenario, which ever one of you do die overnight will have left something to help Day 4
I'm so stressed rn because of classesi'm sorry i haven't been here so often. i feel so useless.
Catboi skipped over all of that, and tried to make is seem suspicious that she would be okay with T3 vote on Day3, because he cherry picked the single post she made where she only mentioned me+vfp and did not mention T3
I think that you guys are misunderstanding my own position. I do not think that the Marci/Sama/VFP interactions clear her... And my actual thoughts on their interactions were a very small part of the whole path that lead me to the conclusion that catboi=scum.
I went through, and examined catboi, built a whole case on how I could see them as a scum team - see post 1021 - and despite seeing a strong case for a catboi-VFP partner pair, I kept examining all possibilities.In post 992, catboi wrote:Ultimately this is all just speculationand I think there's always a scenario where anyone could have done something as scum, but it's your job to decide who is more likely to be scum
Right, it is a bit odd that Marci didn't push Lukewarm afterwardsIn post 1070, catboi wrote:Dead honest, here is how I operate: I look through people's ISOs and ctrl + F for mentions of flipped scum. that was how I pulled posts from marcistar. At that point in time, my main concern is not going over everything she said in explicit detail and making note of every post. At that point in time, I did not know who was mafia either. I was looking to solve between you and marcistar (Meuh wasn't a realistic possibility in my mind), and so I was looking for things that proved suspicious. So I zeroed in on posts that were important to me. That post in particular leapt out at me. If I gloss over the details it's not by design. But I don't think what you point out changes anything at all. In particular you seem to be giving 771 far too much credit - she explicitly says she thinks you could be partnered with VFP. The fact that she doesn't bring this up at all on day 3 is a sign she's not in a town mindset - she had no concern with solving or trying to look at the evidence, she just went with the flow and let us wagon T3 because it was necessary to win the game.In post 1037, Lukewarm wrote:I also felt like catboi's case against Marci required some mental gymnastics, and even required him to leave out some of her posts.Right here, catboi's case completely ignores the fact that she had T3 listed as her number 1 scum read for almost all of Day 3 ( 485 / 513 / 549 / 552), and also when she said that in her mind VFP's partners were narrowed down to me/T3 before VFP flipped (771)In post 934, catboi wrote:Here again she's trying to tie lukewarm to VFP before he flips. Remember what I said about how scum like to tie people to their partners preflip? This feels like more of that.In post 729, marcistar wrote:So pears town okai. At this point its looking more like a VFP X Lukewarm.In post 649, Not_Mafia wrote:I'm the doc, I was on Pear, now vote VFP or catboi
{snip}
But now, here, on day 3, after VFP has flipped, marci doesn't mention anything of her VFPxLukewarm read from the day before, she's content to let us hang back and eliminate T3 without much protest. She barely mentions he read from the day beore, not even to say she's changed it, and that to me is suspicious.In post 883, marcistar wrote:this game feels so solved already![]()
should we just end phase now..?
I feel like it would be more likely you, i feel like catbois too helpful to be scum.In post 877, Lukewarm wrote:I think the only other thing we could do before we pass the vote is for Meuh, Pear, and Marci to all voice their opinion on me vs catboi tomorrow, just in case the vote on T3 does not end the game. In that scenario, which ever one of you do die overnight will have left something to help Day 4
I'm so stressed rn because of classesi'm sorry i haven't been here so often. i feel so useless.
Catboi skipped over all of that, and tried to make is seem suspicious that she would be okay with T3 vote on Day3, because he cherry picked the single post she made where she only mentioned me+vfp and did not mention T3
I don't even know anymore I'm in a constant state of pain and self-doubt uhhIn post 1071, catboi wrote:Meuh, do you have any questions for me? From my point of view you're the decider here but I don't actually know if you want me to say anything.
In post 1072, Lukewarm wrote:I think that you guys are misunderstanding my own position. I do not think that the Marci/Sama/VFP interactions clear her... And my actual thoughts on their interactions were a very small part of the whole path that lead me to the conclusion that catboi=scum.
Overall, I just think that the case against Catboi is stronger. To quote back CatboiI went through, and examined catboi, built a whole case on how I could see them as a scum team - see post 1021 - and despite seeing a strong case for a catboi-VFP partner pair, I kept examining all possibilities.In post 992, catboi wrote:Ultimately this is all just speculationand I think there's always a scenario where anyone could have done something as scum, but it's your job to decide who is more likely to be scum
My next step was to look over catboi's case against Marci - and overall, thought it was a weak case. Like it required a lot of mental gymnastics to conclude. See 1037 for an example of where I felt like his case was lacking, but over all it felt like in order to build his case against her, he had to cherry-pick his posts, and ignore posts that would have countered his case - instead of explaining how his case was correct despite those other posts.
But I did not stop there, I went into the Marci/VFP/Sama joint iso, specifically in the mind set of "I am going to build a case that they are partners." And to be clear, I did not even come to the conclusion "these interactions can't come from partners." I said, that I was not able to build a good case that they are partner. While similar on the surface, there is a distinct difference between those two conclusions.
I looked at the cases they both built against each other. I looked at the cases other players presented against both of them (like this is how I found that quote where pear called the scum team as VFP+catboi lol). And then tried to personally build my own case against both of them. And then I compared everything I saw against both of them, and came to the conclusion that Catboi's case seemed stronger/more likely.
So let's not boil my whole thought process down to "Marci scum read Sama/VFP, so they can't be partners" - because that is a gross oversimplification.