Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:40 pm
by innocentvillager
Spoiler: god fuck this game
Okay I did a bit of skimming over the past few pages - I remember why now I haven't been posting that much in this game. Maybe I'm just too detached from it at this point since I was doing other things on the weekend during that time, but if you actually look at the past few pages as a whole it's just a whole bunch of fucking nothing - arguing over G6 from person X's perspective, or "this person wants to go G3 because Y" - just dumb, super speculative things that you can talk about and fake all day
I could just have zero reading comprehension skills but honestly at this point I'm so done with the "We should go G6" or "We should go G3!" circlejerking that seems to dominate today's discussion - there are so many arguments for each scenario and it's kind of unclear which one's better objectively. I'm back to just wanting to flip whoever the fuck is scummy irregardless of group especially now that it's clear to me that people don't really want to flip esther anymore, and I really think that's the approach we should've taken from the fucking start of D1 and D2 instead of just inviting scum to posture around it forever - maybe I was partly complicit in that discussion with my vote to go G3 but I digress. But my point is partaking in this ridiculous discussion doesn't make you town.
The bottom line is what I see fmpov is scum taking advantage of the fact that I wasn't posting nearly as much as D1 so they felt emboldened to use this for esther to try and spew and pocket people with white noise participation. I'm just reading these posts and a lot of me is just going "what the fuck has esther actually contributed to the gamestate"? Like she's just here sort of loosely in the conversation and giving loose statements here and there totally relaxed. I don't know how you could POSSIBLY be relaxed as town in this case - yes I was the favorite for town going into today and the start of today but even then I was FUCKING NERVOUS about this and ready to go. Esther's demeanor here has NONE of that - it's just her being flat and present because she's already outlasted expectations by getting Todoroki killing early on D1 (which, I know there was a decent amount of discussion around this - NS gets townier as it goes on so I believe it was in scum's best interest to get on this wagon. Could the wagon have been all town? Objectively, like almost no fucking way given how much it benefits scum. Yes fmpov that scum is esther. Yes I was parked on esther during that time - and no I didn't do it because I was trying to chain her elim today, which is a really dumb argument because no scum actually cares about doing that.) so she's literally just freerolling this elim and lucked out that, OH NO, innocentvillager WASN'T HERE for like TWO RL DAYS.
Also the way that esther keeps tiptoeing around/talking to me and asking me questions is really rubbing me off the wrong way - like what is the fucking point? What is she trying to accomplish? To me the explanation is pretty clear - posturing. She's engaging everyone and pretending like this is just some normal day posting as if nothing special's going on, "oh yeah I'm scumhunting here, I'm participating in this discussion, asking everyone questions, etc." She's obviously not trying to discern my alignment so to me she's just going through the motions.
I'll add as an addendum that this 1v1 is fucking with my mind in a weird way, and I think it's not happening to esther because she's scum and/or maybe I'm just a very particular kind of person. I can't remember the last time I've been in this situation as either alignment - specifically, I mean that it's severely coloring my view of the game and how I interpret esther's posts. I'm seeing all the crap in her posting when it's like "oh, it's so fucking obvious she's scum" but in reality/objectively it's probably NAI to maybe slightly scum!indicative at best - even town!indicative stuff at worst. So yes some of this is probably forced/stretchy but that's just the way the fucking cookie crumbles I guess. It's just really tilting to see her be present and keep saying "lmao I'm going to get misflipped/I just get snap voted in melo" when it's very clear she's been continually swaying people to her side just by being present with people at a given time. IT'S FAKE ATE AND SELF DEPRECATION TO SEEM RELAXED GUYS I don't know how else to put this. I don't know why I'm not online with any of you at the same time but I guarantee if I was around with the same presence and times as her it'd be extra easy for me to "be involved" - this is me trying extra hard to try to compensate for that.
But my point about her headspace just being totally wack this game still stands. I'm not sure how many of you have been in an intense 1v1 situation but what esther's doing is NOT it, and I can tell you right now I can't even fathom playing the way she has been - the easy explanation here is that she is scum and in the wrong headspace here.
The other question here I have for people: who is my scumpartner?
It's not Puppies or Faker a) because they are obvtown b) there's no reason I'd be trying this hard here if either of them were scum especially when I HATE being scum. I can point to self meta examples where I just give up at this stage in the game (okay take 2175 Normal as an example) because I think my partner is going to win but wifom etc etc. If in some world you think I'm scum here, I could like maybe see myself going this hard if my partner is actually in danger of getting eliminated.
It's not Dwlee because as I've already mentioned our approach would be way different.
It's not STD because I don't shade him for the Todo hammer like I did. I'd be pretty sussed about hammering in general and doubt I would let STD do that. We'd also try to be way more distanced with each other rather than just me loosely calling him leantown for some dumb reason on D1.
It's not Dunnstral because he's been calling me scum with 0 explanation for the entire game.
I don't see how I'm ever scum with any of these players so if someone would like to posit one of these solves involving me then PLEASE enlighten me.
I wish I had a solve for us but I honestly just don't know. I'm still fairly confident it's in {dwlee, dunnstral, STD} but that's nothing new or surprising. If Prism/Fire aren't the next two nightkills then something really weird is up and I would reconsider them again. I'm GOING TO LOOK more into this on future days I promise but right now my priority is defense against the bullshit that I'm seeing - it's getting late and I'm cutting into my bedtime by the time I'll be done with this post.
Honestly, if there are particular reasons that people do townread esther's posts, can you just quote them my way and I'll explain why scum!esther makes that post? I'm simply not seeing what is towny about her posts
Okay I originally was typing this to respond to random quotes that I saw but now that I've typed all this, this almost feels like somewhat of an afterthought but I think it's going to emphasize my earlier points better.
But gee, I wonder what scum!esther would do if Dwlee and esther were bussing - she'd totally say that bussing is NAI for them! That totally doesn't defeat the point of it in the first place!
Idk if my sarcasm is getting the point across but what I'm saying is that if they actually were bussing it's very conceivable to me that she would try to push some towncred/antiassociative angle there.
Yes ik it's a wording nitpick and last like 3 times I tried to explain to people that these came from scum no one listened to me - maybe fine, because at least one of those times I was wrong. So whatever I won't complain if people don't buy this.
Second see my above argument for why esther's attitude doesn't make sense here.
But I don't know why you think I was ever set on a you/Dunn solve - I might've mentioned it a bit ago on like page 8 but that was largely joking. To put it in context, that was really early in the game when I gave out shotgun reads and had you two in my lowest tiers, and it makes like zero sense to me why you're still bringing that up
I could just have zero reading comprehension skills but honestly at this point I'm so done with the "We should go G6" or "We should go G3!" circlejerking that seems to dominate today's discussion - there are so many arguments for each scenario and it's kind of unclear which one's better objectively. I'm back to just wanting to flip whoever the fuck is scummy irregardless of group especially now that it's clear to me that people don't really want to flip esther anymore, and I really think that's the approach we should've taken from the fucking start of D1 and D2 instead of just inviting scum to posture around it forever - maybe I was partly complicit in that discussion with my vote to go G3 but I digress. But my point is partaking in this ridiculous discussion doesn't make you town.
The bottom line is what I see fmpov is scum taking advantage of the fact that I wasn't posting nearly as much as D1 so they felt emboldened to use this for esther to try and spew and pocket people with white noise participation. I'm just reading these posts and a lot of me is just going "what the fuck has esther actually contributed to the gamestate"? Like she's just here sort of loosely in the conversation and giving loose statements here and there totally relaxed. I don't know how you could POSSIBLY be relaxed as town in this case - yes I was the favorite for town going into today and the start of today but even then I was FUCKING NERVOUS about this and ready to go. Esther's demeanor here has NONE of that - it's just her being flat and present because she's already outlasted expectations by getting Todoroki killing early on D1 (which, I know there was a decent amount of discussion around this - NS gets townier as it goes on so I believe it was in scum's best interest to get on this wagon. Could the wagon have been all town? Objectively, like almost no fucking way given how much it benefits scum. Yes fmpov that scum is esther. Yes I was parked on esther during that time - and no I didn't do it because I was trying to chain her elim today, which is a really dumb argument because no scum actually cares about doing that.) so she's literally just freerolling this elim and lucked out that, OH NO, innocentvillager WASN'T HERE for like TWO RL DAYS.
Also the way that esther keeps tiptoeing around/talking to me and asking me questions is really rubbing me off the wrong way - like what is the fucking point? What is she trying to accomplish? To me the explanation is pretty clear - posturing. She's engaging everyone and pretending like this is just some normal day posting as if nothing special's going on, "oh yeah I'm scumhunting here, I'm participating in this discussion, asking everyone questions, etc." She's obviously not trying to discern my alignment so to me she's just going through the motions.
I'll add as an addendum that this 1v1 is fucking with my mind in a weird way, and I think it's not happening to esther because she's scum and/or maybe I'm just a very particular kind of person. I can't remember the last time I've been in this situation as either alignment - specifically, I mean that it's severely coloring my view of the game and how I interpret esther's posts. I'm seeing all the crap in her posting when it's like "oh, it's so fucking obvious she's scum" but in reality/objectively it's probably NAI to maybe slightly scum!indicative at best - even town!indicative stuff at worst. So yes some of this is probably forced/stretchy but that's just the way the fucking cookie crumbles I guess. It's just really tilting to see her be present and keep saying "lmao I'm going to get misflipped/I just get snap voted in melo" when it's very clear she's been continually swaying people to her side just by being present with people at a given time. IT'S FAKE ATE AND SELF DEPRECATION TO SEEM RELAXED GUYS I don't know how else to put this. I don't know why I'm not online with any of you at the same time but I guarantee if I was around with the same presence and times as her it'd be extra easy for me to "be involved" - this is me trying extra hard to try to compensate for that.
But my point about her headspace just being totally wack this game still stands. I'm not sure how many of you have been in an intense 1v1 situation but what esther's doing is NOT it, and I can tell you right now I can't even fathom playing the way she has been - the easy explanation here is that she is scum and in the wrong headspace here.
The other question here I have for people: who is my scumpartner?
It's not Puppies or Faker a) because they are obvtown b) there's no reason I'd be trying this hard here if either of them were scum especially when I HATE being scum. I can point to self meta examples where I just give up at this stage in the game (okay take 2175 Normal as an example) because I think my partner is going to win but wifom etc etc. If in some world you think I'm scum here, I could like maybe see myself going this hard if my partner is actually in danger of getting eliminated.
It's not Dwlee because as I've already mentioned our approach would be way different.
It's not STD because I don't shade him for the Todo hammer like I did. I'd be pretty sussed about hammering in general and doubt I would let STD do that. We'd also try to be way more distanced with each other rather than just me loosely calling him leantown for some dumb reason on D1.
It's not Dunnstral because he's been calling me scum with 0 explanation for the entire game.
I don't see how I'm ever scum with any of these players so if someone would like to posit one of these solves involving me then PLEASE enlighten me.
I wish I had a solve for us but I honestly just don't know. I'm still fairly confident it's in {dwlee, dunnstral, STD} but that's nothing new or surprising. If Prism/Fire aren't the next two nightkills then something really weird is up and I would reconsider them again. I'm GOING TO LOOK more into this on future days I promise but right now my priority is defense against the bullshit that I'm seeing - it's getting late and I'm cutting into my bedtime by the time I'll be done with this post.
Honestly, if there are particular reasons that people do townread esther's posts, can you just quote them my way and I'll explain why scum!esther makes that post? I'm simply not seeing what is towny about her posts
Okay I originally was typing this to respond to random quotes that I saw but now that I've typed all this, this almost feels like somewhat of an afterthought but I think it's going to emphasize my earlier points better.
I've mentioned why IV/Dwlee is a bad solve.In post 946, Brighter Puppy wrote:Although maybe it is not as likely Esther/Dwlee.
Since Esther seems to be really naive about the possibility of bussing here.
Still leaves the option of IV/Dwlee though.
- Norwee
But gee, I wonder what scum!esther would do if Dwlee and esther were bussing - she'd totally say that bussing is NAI for them! That totally doesn't defeat the point of it in the first place!
Idk if my sarcasm is getting the point across but what I'm saying is that if they actually were bussing it's very conceivable to me that she would try to push some towncred/antiassociative angle there.
like I'm being nitpicky but this tone is really weird - it's really not that hard to envision a scenario where anyone here endgames.In post 947, mc esther wrote:how the fuck does maf!dwlee win if their buddy dies today?
Okay first of all, you literally scumslipped with the bolded - you just called yourself maf. And it's not like you confused it with the other direction because at no point did I ask you a question even remotely like this, so the maf refers to you in your sentence, not me.In post 903, mc esther wrote:idk maybe it's just being ignored because, "why answer questions from maf", but i'll post it once moreIn post 848, mc esther wrote:inno, pretending youre town for a sec, when did you start actually believing that the team is me/dunn (as opposed to, merely pushing it for reactions)?
Yes ik it's a wording nitpick and last like 3 times I tried to explain to people that these came from scum no one listened to me - maybe fine, because at least one of those times I was wrong. So whatever I won't complain if people don't buy this.
Second see my above argument for why esther's attitude doesn't make sense here.
But I don't know why you think I was ever set on a you/Dunn solve - I might've mentioned it a bit ago on like page 8 but that was largely joking. To put it in context, that was really early in the game when I gave out shotgun reads and had you two in my lowest tiers, and it makes like zero sense to me why you're still bringing that up
In post 948, Dwlee99 wrote:Probably by convincing people to go dunn->std
In post 950, Prism wrote:The last few pages have sold me on Esther being town. I will want to meta but the last two pages are very, very sharp if she is scum.
I strongly prefer going in 3.
I know I have things to answer later, will get to them.
I'm kind of back and forth on this but reviewing how high esther's wim has been the page 10-15 pages I'm back to thinking this isn't really true. I was kind of gone for a bit/not posting nearly as much on D2 and esther was clearly fighting on D2 - it wasn't at all clear that she was going to get misyeeted at that point in time. Maybe at the start of the day, but not at that point in time. If she's scum with like Dunnstral or STD I think it's really risky for her to hammer you because it could easily just go esther -> Dunnstral/STD for a town win.In post 975, Dwlee99 wrote:Explanation: mc esther scum should probably hammer me there but didn't
I think dunnstral is scum
This turnaround is bad because a) completely unexplained b) very convenient timing right when popular opinion was for some magical reason shifting away from esther and onto me. I think dwlee/esther is a real possibility but again I could see the other pairings too atm.In post 989, Dwlee99 wrote:I think maybe IV should be flipped
I wouldn't say coast but yeah I wasn't expecting such a big fight from you. Regardless you gave me a challenging 1v1 experience that I'll never forget, so thanks for that at least <3In post 1013, mc esther wrote:i think iv expected to coast by today lmao
Again this is kind of a ridiculous attitude to take in terms of reading but I'm not really faulting you in particular for it because I think many people (myself included) have used similar arguments. But it seems like this site is turning into a "whoever's been here more recently gets more townread" meta. Somehow everything that happened before gets like exponentially deweighted and forgotten while the recent posting is the only thing people seem to remember about creating reads. I think it's really easy for mafia to get by - if I were scum here for example I would've been intentionally posting a lot more frequently to remind people that I'm here and contributing shit. So let's stop siding with whoever happens to be "present and posting" in a given moment and actually try to figure who's been scum/town this gameIn post 959, Brighter Puppy wrote:I think my previous pages summarizes our scumread of Esther pretty well.In post 958, Prism wrote:Brighter can you explain the esther scumread?
Hammering last page isn't guaranteed but is fine play from her point of view depending on partner
I agree on you that they have levelled up their play considerable in day 2 though. And especially recently.
So i'm not as sold on them being scum anymore, especially since IV has been pretty lacking by comparison.
- Norwee
