Mafiascum.net

On Percy: I got a little uneasy about Percy again right when he started talking up how good my case on Mina was. I remember from ACoK that he made some positive (although far less positive than here) comments about my Macavity suspicion that pinged my scumdar slightly and drew me towards investigating him. I think I felt like I was being buddied up to a bit, and I'm feeling that more now.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with him pointing out that Mina's plan is a bad (and unnecessary) one; at 11-1, we ought to be able to continue to scumhunt properly and lynch the remaining scum well before endgame without having to resort to a strict lynch plan (and personally I want to win with 11 townies left alive). I do also see where he's coming from about scum-Mina hoping the plan would get derailed at a later stage, as it did cross my mind as a plausible gambit. I do think we probably will hit scum in that list, but that doesn't mean we should get lazy and do it. Even if we do lynch those 5 candidates first, we should do it properly, hearing from everyone and seeing where and how they decide to place their votes. The large majority of accusations here are going to be town on town, so it's not going to be hard for the last scum to make people look bad for pushing for a townie lynch. If there was some heavy bussing going on and one of the 'town' players does turn out to be scum, they've got a breathing period of 4 or 5 easy lynches before anyone even to think they're scum. Let's not forget that we have people playing who can bus both their partners D1 and D2 and still win games as scum. That's why we should make them work hard and not end up on D5 or D6 saying 'hey, we haven't got anything out of Sotty for a while' or 'has anyone seen IAI?'. The vehemence with which Percy tries to push it on Mina as a scumtell does give me pause; it's certainly a possible scum play, but I wouldn't consider it anywhere near the most obvious, nor do I think it's anywhere near the best scumtell we have on Mina.

Conclusion: aside from the buddying, I still feel ok about Percy. I perceive town-concern in his reaction to the plan, with my only concern being that it felt like he was trying a little bit too hard to make Mina look bad.

On Empking: I don't know if I've ever seen a town/scum list from Empking before. It seems off to me, like he's actually trying not to get lynched. His point about Percy being protected by scum is nonsense, as DF was our first lynch and it's ludicrous to think that any single player could possibly have protected Percy from 13 townies. Having played with Emp before, I have to say the briefness and vote-hopping is a null-tell. All in all, I think the main reason I feel bad about Emp (aside from being Lrd's replacement) is that he actually seems to be trying to offer more of a detailed explanation for his suspicions, which isn't usually something he seems bothered about.

One other thing I'd like to say after reading back: I've got my eye on Elmo. Something I've spotted has pinged my scumdar, but I'd like to hear from him on this situation first before I ask him about it.

What's the difference between bad and scummy RE: Mina for you?

How did Thor make your list of semi confirmed town? I thought he was giving you bad feelings.

Mina's post 1037 is bad in parts (I don't like how she splits the remaining players for example) but her general tone reminds me of a post I made as town in a recent game. A game I happened to horribly screw up. Emp's jump on her with no real case is awful. I think he is more likely to be scum than Mina at this point.

Sotty7 wrote:

Thor:

What's the difference between bad and scummy RE: Mina for you?

Huh?

Presuming I used the word bad as explicitly different from scummy then I would say I was calling a play bad (e.g. anti-town/stupid/undesirable/unoptimal/et al). I would use scummy while calling an action a scumtell insomuch as I think scum would do it more often then town. If you can quote where I drew the distinction I could probably clarify more but probably I was saying I thought a play wasn't a good town play but that I didn't see it as obvious scum play.

That explanation feels self-contained. The "bad" is the way her votes and attitudes were flowing (the dithering).

Have you ever seen ScumMina or are we talking about a bunch of town games here?

Mina wrote:Elmo, say we replaced "speedlynches" with "reasonable debate as to who would go first." Do you still agree that the scum are almost certainly in that group of five players?

No, for two reasons. Firstly, I don't see a good reason to pin the game on people like IAI & Furco being town. Secondly, I'd actually be pretty surprised if that was true over the long run, because it'd mean scum almost never bussed in a setup well-suited to bussing; I assume this group is generated mostly from who was on the scum wagons.

Thor665 wrote:I also hate Elmo now

WhadIdo?

Locke Lamora wrote:One other thing I'd like to say after reading back: I've got my eye on Elmo. Something I've spotted has pinged my scumdar, but I'd like to hear from him on this situation first before I ask him about it.

Would you like to be a little more specific? I think I've said everything I'd like.

Mina wrote:I Am Innocent, since you found Percy's reaction to my plan scummy, does that mean you think the plan is a good one?

What I did not like about Percy's post was how thought out it was to the endgame. Kind of like, if these players made it to the end, would there be enough confusion still that mafia had a chance to win??? Who cares that far in advance except mafia who is down 11-1.

Mina wrote:Empking still looks really scummy, but I just want to hear what Locke has to say before the day ends about Percy and Empking (since he might be dead tomorrow, and since I'm not 100% confident that people will follow through on lynching Percy eventually if the game doesn't end with this).

This also feels slightly scummy. I have a list of players who I think look really townie, but , I do not think town should be speculating on them.

To clarify, earlier this day, I asked Thor who he thought were town, so he had to take a stance at that point to either throw his partner (who I thought was Percy) in a town list and limit his wagon jumping options, or put him (Percy) on a possible scum list, which did not jive as he seemed to refuse to vote for him.

But the last scum has no teammates left. So at this point it only benefits us to list who we suspect.

For now, my list in probably the current order is: Percy, Empking, then you. After that, well I will just let the scum try to figure it out in case I wrong about the first three....

PS - My vote is on Empking currently because like the last two phases, Percy just seems unlynchable...

because hes town imo

Furcolow wrote:because hes town imo

And if he isn't, and he continues to survive to the endgame, guess who he is going to take with him.

How about just sticking with who you think are most likely scum right now.

percy isn't scum, and i'm tired of the wagons on him
i will say who i believe is town all i want
what are you going to do about it?

Fur, there is only one way you know Percy isn't scum.... shall we go down that road?

need me to quote interactions ive had with dryfit or mongoose again?

Sotty7 wrote:Have you ever seen ScumMina or are we talking about a bunch of town games here?

I've only ever played with Mina as town. She dithers as town. Unless she doesn't dither as scum (which I doubt) all that shows is dithering is a normal part of her meta and is not the most optimal place to build a case and when I read Locke's case that's what I see - 'Mina didn't make solid commitments to reads'.

Elmo wrote:

Thor665 wrote:I also hate Elmo now

WhadIdo?

You keep checking out of the game. Stop that or replace out.

Furcolow wrote:percy isn't scum, and i'm tired of the wagons on him
i will say who i believe is town all i want
what are you going to do about it?

Thank you for playing this game. I was worried that I might get the LVP award, but now I know that you are going to win it in a landslide.

ha ha ha
pretty sure scum have that locked up, and i'm town, SO I DOUBT IT WILL BE ME

i've also been on both wagons of scum, so go #$%^ yourself

Furcolow wrote:ha ha ha
pretty sure scum have that locked up, and i'm town, SO I DOUBT IT WILL BE ME

Take Percy to LyLo and vote the other player, and do not be so certain.

Furcolow wrote:i've also been on both wagons of scum, so go #$%^ yourself

Yeah me too. Big whoop. You were as unsure as me so don't even go there. (Actually more unsure. I was the first to attack you when you unvoted Dry Fit!)

unvoting dry-fit was because he seemed to have a genuine excuse for his lurking
i revoted him because of benmage, though, and i would definitely not follow benmage if he was town and i was scum
no way

if i have percy in lylo with me, there is no way i'm going to listen to him and not vote him

Thor665 wrote:You keep checking out of the game. Stop that or replace out.

Previously, yeah, mea culpa (albeit I couldn't stop it) and I said I'd replace out if it continued and people wanted. As of now, I think it's Empking, I'm waiting for people to lynch him, and I don't actually feel like I need to do more. I feel he's extremely likely to be the last scum, and that any analysis based on "if it's not him, then who is it" is very likely to be wasted effort. Predictably, if we do lynch him and he's town, then I'll be very confused and either Do Stuff or replace out.

So yeah, lets lynch emp and win this thing before I go nuts eh?

Been looking over the Emp case and I tend to agree with it. I didn't like how he came in and had me as scum (note how the last 2 pushing me as scum flipped) doesnt seem interested really in answering much giving short yes/no/maybe answers to some questions. I think he could well be scum upon looking closer



Hammer!

or not the hammer... Mina, put your vote back on!

I've been working on a big post for awhile, but since I'm still distracted by the game I'm modding, it won't be ready for a bit. Does anyone see any reason whatsoever for me to respond to Percy or Sotty or Locke or anything I missed, or explain my ulterior motive for proposing the plan, before hammering Empking?

What freaks me out is that he's the only one who gave the "townish" answer to my question.

Actually, before I hammer, one last question, just in case the game doesn't end and Sotty dies:

Sotty, how sure are you that jason is innocent? 100%? I highly doubt he's scum based on his interactions with the flipped players, but I occasionally get a twinge of paranoia due to his inactivity and to reasoning I disagree with. If you know him well enough to say that this absolutely isn't his scum play, then I'll trust your judgment and treat him as confirmed.