Mafiascum.net

I still don't see the "Something more detailed" from TvK that was promised in Post 1023. Souffle and coffee for those that vote him.

Penguin, you're going to need to read through the entirety of the thread in the next day or two, need some legit thoughts from you because Slaxx flaking is a little troubling since I know he hates playing scum, plus a new set of eyes over the thread would be helpful here.

Wake, your Post 1041 is headdesk worthy and just helps SG make more reasons why I'm wrong on you. The entirety of the italized section is pretty much a narration of what's happened without any anaylsis added to it which anyone can do via ISO'ing him and not needing to read your post. The bottom section is essentially a "I think he's mason" which is 1) A stupid thing to suggest since it helps scum narrow down possible mason possibilites 2) Incorrect given he's blatantly said he's not a mason now and something you should have noticed when Herself was pushing saying she wanted TvK vigged (Oh yes, mason totally wants their mason partner vigged) and 3) Ignores the case on him and the points I actually wanted you to analyse and address.

Ffyert, I think the major things that point to TvK being scum is 1) His Garmr vote and claiming that he didn't like his Orestes vote when he stated he did in like 5-6 different posts and 2) His complete lack of mention of Garmr today, he hasn't mentioned him a single time despite yesterday wanting to go in a 1 v 1 against him, that reads like his partners telling him "Stay out of focus, be quiet, don't get in the middle of anything" and 3) Him claiming that Kid A is scum but not voting him. Pretty much all of his posts today have been about "him" and not taking action to scumhunt.

Kid A's Post 1067 might be as bad as Wakes TvK-Mason case, jesus christ. The worst parts of it though are 1) The name calling "Fitz", "Street" "SG" is something he's blatantly been doing about everyone throughout the game 2) ICE's unvote of Fitz and support of the claim is something a lot of us did, including me ie; Streets Post 778, Herselfs Post 780, Garmrs Post 798 and my Post 799. 3) His "These are the possibilities" post comes across as him trying to get his thoughts down so that he can work out what's likely and the "Very likely" there was Fitz being town so the "hold back on voting waiting" doesn't really make sense. 4) ICE stated frustration with a lot of the inactives in the game, he's stated frustration with actives even (Pretty sure the fact that I still aren't convinced you're scum is pissing him off too but I'm much more sure on TvK being scum here despite how bad your case is).

No smooth operator for F-16.

Feeling even more confident with my Kid A vote after 1067.

So just one night? Okays!

Above is @Penguin. She says she'll be caught up when on in the evening.night so that's fine and dandy for me.

In post 1075, Regfan wrote:Wake, your Post 1041 is headdesk worthy and just helps SG make more reasons why I'm wrong on you.

It's not like he did much different from what he has been doing, and I didn't even wade into it with him at all and am intentionally not doing so in order to maybe actually get the rest of his reads out of him. Considering your stance on him prior to that post I am unsure why that post should alter it - did I miss something?

In post 1067, Kid A wrote:also if after writing out alla this shit im wrong i might off myself

So you admit the post is shit and you wrong. (You meant if your wrong probably) If you not 100% sure about ice being scum why did you push and vote ice when you could of voted fitz and maybe pushed a stronger case.

To me it looks like your worried about your appearance and you want to look town.

In post 1079, Squirrel Girl wrote:did I miss something?

Yes, you have. He said that we can discuss things and bounce thoughts of each other, I've twice requested a read from him on Milked, in Post 912 and Post 1010 which he still hasn't answered, was willing to settle with his promised read on TvK in Post 1032 hoping he'd actually go over the points that make me think TvK is scum but instead he's given me a narration of his ISO without any analysis which is fucking useless to me and an even worse TvK-Mason theory to go with it, it doesn't help at all when it comes to 1) Helping me lynch TvK or 2) Explaining to me why he thinks I'm wrong.

Ok, regfan. I'm joining you.

In post 1081, Regfan wrote:it doesn't help at all when it comes to 1) Helping me lynch TvK or 2) Explaining to me why he thinks I'm wrong.

You linked me to a town game of his where he had problems doing them same thing throughout (the 'same thing' being clearly expressing reads and discussing them with others). Why didn't it ping you then? He might indeed be scum, I still have a number of issues with the slot that, sadly, mostly are 'gut' right now, but I think poor communication of reads is not really a sign of that anymore since he pretty clearly does it to a similar degree when town, making it a difficult alignment tell and instead just more of an anti-town playstyle. At least that's where I'm at with it. I'll agree he hasn't made it easy for you to interact with him as far as his reads go...but I've been doing that dance with him since Day 1, so it's hardly a new thing.

I'm not too concerned about the complaints of some about my reads. I'm giving you my reads one at a time, it's generating discussion, and it's better than not doing so at all. As for TvK, I think it's a little more complicated than that, and I can see him denying it vehemently while being so. I'll not lynch him today.

I would like to see some of you judge your own posts with that same measure you use on mine. Thanks.

SG, my issue with it is that it was that suggested we discuss thoughts and reads and bounce them of each other, when I tried he hasn't commented on it and his "read" on TvK who I've tried to explain over and over again why I think he's scum got a narration which is piss-poor and makes his request towards me but complete lack of follow through awful. If he had no intention of actually working with me why'd he suggest it in the first place.

Wake, so you're saying you still think that Herself asked for her mason partner to be vig shot and wanted to lynch him therefore you're not going to look at the case against him? Yeahhhhhhh....That's bad dude, really bad.

Regfan, I was preoccupied with TvK, the rest of the game, and work.

Please tell me what it is you wish to discuss with me, and I will do what I can to work with you.

Okay, I admit, I'm back to wanting Wake dead again.

What I don't like about Kid A:

As I said before, Kid A has said nothing about Fitz all day 1 long, except for "he would not be an awful lynch", immediatly followed by "he is probably town so he is an awful lynch". He never hopped on the Fitz wagon because he was too busy voting Street and Herself (much better choices, yeah). He never said anything about Fitz's claim either. At the end of the day, he just joined the Bard wagon.

Then day 2 starts and he starts off with immediatly voting Fitz. After all of his crazy-ass theories during day 1 (note that he even speculated about a scum team without a night kill), he apparently was unable to grasp that it still is possible that Fitz is our vig even though only one person died during the night. Enough people have speculated about what happened already. And then he even calls Fitz a liar in #882, but when he notices he's drawing too much attention to himself, he pulls off a classic Kid A, and disappears for a couple of days again.

His case on ICE is horrible. Also, let's look at all his previous mentions of ICE, and compare it to his "case". The first thing he calls him out on is that he mentions the fact that the scum team have daytalk. Well, Kid A had noticed this and used it as a joke reason for his RVS post (#23, I thought his smiley was included to imply that it was a joke). Then, we go a long time without hearing from him, but then in #474, he calls ICE genuine town. And then suddenly in #770, after another three days without him posting, he asks if anyone else is starting to find ICE scummy...

And then his final posts. Once again, he had disappeared for a couple of days. Then he comes in, says he's not scum, has apparently concluded that ICE and Fitz are scum, makes up a crappy case and just hopes that everyone will follow him.

So Reg, if it makes you feel more comfortable, I'll vote Kid A;

VOTE: Kid A

While Kid A isn't that strong of a player, it feels far too convenient to lynch him. I too had voted for Kid A Day 1 because I viewed him as the weakest link, and I wanted to avoid a no-lynch. He's an easy lynch, and people want him dead.

I'll catch up in here tonight.

OK, wall post that I'll probably break up to be less annoying; conclusions at the very end.

In post 34, Street Hassle wrote:

In post 33, Banksys Flareon wrote:Hmm. I guess we just diametrically oppose in how we think information should flow here. Town hunt all you want. I'd rather you keep the results to yourself.

That's cool, but don't call me out for being ambiguous if you want me to keep results to myself.

Banksys comes off looking like she's trying to make conversation but fails to be town with the disinterest in the results. Street reads towny for not immediately jumping all over this. ICEninja is quite happy to work on that molehill to mountain transition though.

FWIW, Kid A is posting like he did in Mini 1458 where he was an early town lynch. Haven't had time to check out if he plays like this as scum too.

Street Hassle couldn't be more town in interacting with Herself.

Refgan calling the Street Hassle hydra a newb jokingly doesn't seem like a scum play offhand.

In post 261, TvK wrote:Too many people come across as town, but still I'm waiting for all of them to say something that I can find scummy.

...

In post 262, havingfitz wrote:I haven't looked the games over that have been referenced but my initial question would be were they games I was in from the start (vs replacing in) and were an equal number of town games referred to.

Scum unhappy about how they're being metaed?

In post 326, ICEninja wrote:So...Reg...do you actually suspect anyone? I'm getting twitchier reading your posts when you seem to throw away every scum read you have.

You and Street look more like a couple at the store scrutinizing which curtains to buy for your new place than people trying to actively find scum.

This nagging feeling that my two strongest town reads are laughing at me in a day chat QT is growing. We need to lynch somebody so one of my damn town reads can die and make me feel better.

Paranoia good, undermining town reads bad.

havingfitz's read on Herself stems so much from their scum read on him as far as I can tell. Which, again, I feel like havingfitz with vig-power in hand is better than that.

The lurker wagon on Milked on page 16 comes from nowhere. I'm getting weird vibes from Garmr, nothing I can quantify at present.

Like here:

In post 396, Garmr wrote:My rule of thumb is There is no obvious town day 1 but in saying that your most likely town through you do give me the hibbe jebbies sometimes.

This couldn't be more non-committal.

ICEninja:

In post 408, ICEninja wrote:Jeez, you two. Herself, and to a lesser extent fitz, are not realistic lynches today. Can we put away the cat claws already? You two are repeating the same stuff over and over at this point, and it's looking like town on town head smashing.

Points for trying to diffuse the strife, but then calling it town v. town is over the top.

In post 432, Squirrel Girl wrote:At the moment I feel like I'm watching the town read core eat itself a little from the inside out, and I'm planning to sit back, munch a few cashews, and see where all their meta lands them. Right at this stage I don't have a strong enough opinion about who to lynch to suggest you sheep anything I say.

...so you think town's in trouble and the best thing to do is sit back and let it happen. Not loving it.

Refgan is still a town read.

TvK invalidating his vote because the player may have flaked doesn't read well, although I'll see where he ends up going.

In post 488, TvK wrote:I don't feel comfortable with calling Wake town after 19 pages of silence and then a couple of decent posts.

This. And Wake88 coming in after 19 pages of nothing and attempting to steamroll people is just lousy. Although him explaining how scum with daytalk works was oh-so-appreciated.

That's through page 20. Didn't get as much done last night as I'd hoped, but we have a week left and I'll wrap up the other half of the game catch-up today.

Current thought is that I slightly prefer a TvK lynch over a Kid A one but I'm going to have trouble seeing anything towny in havingfitz for a while.

Posting later toonight. Had a busy week.

Regfan wrote:

(Pretty sure the fact that I still aren't convinced you're scum is pissing him off too but I'm much more sure on TvK being scum here despite how bad your case is).

Don't get me wrong, Reg, your case on TvK is fairly solid.

Normally 3 players promising catchup would piss me off but it has indeed been a busy time of the year. We're at 8 days to deadline so I think we're OK, especially since solidly established wagons have begun (and this time ones that are actually on scum. Town is finally paying attention).

I don't normally have to push hard to get votes on someone who is so obviously scum, so I'm feeling really good about the Kid A wagon.

I really want Kid A to claim. This puts him at L-1. DON'T vote for him until he has a chance to claim, please. If he claims something useful, then I'll take my vote off of him. If someone quickhammers him, there'll be trouble.


VOTE: Kid A

In post 1094, Wake1 wrote:

feryllt

She seemed a little upset with Fitz over him shooting Herself; I'm unsure if her anger is genuine. She just seems rather subdued to me. Wasn't in favor of a TvK lynch yesterday, but now she's moving in that direction. I'm not sure what the odds are that both Hydras were Town. She's also been sizing Kid A up for a lynch. I'm not convinced she was temperish, either, as she had mentioned. In (943) she's moreso going after Kid A, which could either be innocent, or Scum trying to be really convincing to pull off a "reasonable" mislynch; please pardon my skepticism. Oddly with (1057), I tend to get more lost in huge multi-quote walls rather than solid text walls of 4-5 sentence paragraphs. She does have reservations about taking TvK off the table, and from her own point of view, and TRvK's latest reactions, I don't blame her. I do wonder why she's going after TvK over Fitz or Kid A... if she'd clarify her season for her vote in 1-3 sentences, that'd make a great big difference in my thoughts regarding her. 4/10.

The anger was quite genuine. And I still question whether fitz is actually vig, but I'm not comfortable looking there for a lynch at the moment. If he is scum, there are likely 2 other scum to find. When I get annoyed in mafia I tend toward snark. Snark itself isn't a scum tell for me, but some players have thoughts about the nature of my snarkish replies and my likely alignment. When I'm scum, I keep those theories in mind.

My stances have evolved on both Kid A and on TvK. I'm not as convinced as Empire was (and regfan is) that Kid A's tinfoil hat theories are a town tell. With TvK, the thing that stands out most for me is that he engaged fitz about whether he'd shoot Herself but made no effort to talk fitz out of it even after his phraseology was called down.

My hunch is that if TvK is scum and fitz is actually vig and not scum, then the purpose of that exchange was to see whether it would be safe to leave fitz alone for a night. If TvK flips scum, then some of my concerns about fitz fake-claiming will be allayed.

Empire had a strong town read on regfan. When he let me know he had to replace out, there were two major questions on my mind - what were his final thoughts on our unsure pile (Kid A, TvK, fitz, Eek), and how would he recognize scum-regfan later in the game?

I'm watching for the stuff that Empire mentioned to me, but so far not seeing anything of concern re regfan. His case on TvK looks good to me. I went through TvK's iso and came away with mixed results from the basis of purely what was said and the apparent tone. In context, though, his contribution leans a little scum, and does so in three main events of the game - two of which were wagon-formations, and one of which was fitz' claim.

So, while I'm sheeping regfan's vote on TvK, and won't claim otherwise, I've combed through TvK's iso and come away with concerns, as well as going through reg's posts about him.

Wake's post confused me, like a lot. Your strongest town read is TvK which is and I, whom you've called scummier and scummier all day, am tied for your second strongest town read. It seems like the people you gave 4s too you had more town things to say about them, and the people you gave 5s too you had more scum things to say about them.

The numbers feel super arbitrary to me, and the severe lack of solid town reads (outside the flat out wrong mason read on TvK) when virtually every other player has multiple solid town reads is disturbing. Your strongest scum read, SG, seems to be summed up as "She's a meanie face!", and most of your other reads have an "I have no clue" vibe to them.

Honestly, with that list you can go back and vote for ANY PLAYER IN THE GAME tomorrow, including TvK once the real mason either claims or dies.

Furthermore, you vote for Kid A the same post where you imply 3 times by my count that voting for Kid A is scummy.

This post really cements the theory that very minimal scum hunting is coming from your slot, and your fence sitting, strange votes, and strange reads benefits scum trying to leave options open. Town really tries to find scum and you just aren't doing that despite posting .

That being said your vote is on Kid A and I'm not confident that you'd be busing a scum buddy unless you two are discussing a fake claim in day talk. Depending on how this all goes will largely impact how I read you.

In post 1093, ICEninja wrote:

Regfan wrote:

(Pretty sure the fact that I still aren't convinced you're scum is pissing him off too but I'm much more sure on TvK being scum here despite how bad your case is).

Don't get me wrong, Reg, your case on TvK is fairly solid.

BUT KID A WANTS TO LYNCH ME BECAUSE I'M PARTNERS WITH AN UNFLIPPED FITZ.

Normally 3 players promising catchup would piss me off but it has indeed been a busy time of the year. We're at 8 days to deadline so I think we're OK, especially since solidly established wagons have begun (and this time ones that are actually on scum. Town is finally paying attention).

I don't normally have to push

this

hard to get votes on someone who is so obviously scum, so I'm feeling really good about the Kid A wagon.

yeah so im lynching you first and deciding whether or not to lynch fitz based on your flip dumbass

-if im wrong and lynch fitz first we lose a pr
-if im right and lynch fitz first youre still a better player than him and will find a way to wiggle out

looks like i might be ded today so when im town pls lynch iceninja

also im not claiming because im not helping wake with his retarded plan to out / narrow down our masons

What's your role, Kid A?