Tales of You (Endgame)

[MastinSSK]

Mastin, I have a few questions if you are still here.

Not really around. You can ask, though.

They are also a lot alike in that you are pretty fucking town, but you have devolved into howling about me being obvious scum.

Because I simply am. not. seeing. the town. Like...this just feels

off

. Your take on things.

Its anti town regardless (and in this instance) you arent even right.

I want to believe, AP.
I want to believe.

I can't.

I did not make any assumption about your read on me.

Except you quite explicitly did. You assumed it was the trolling causing me to read you as scum, when it was, well...everything.

Why do you disagree about LB?

Proof that I'm looking at you: I actually isoed LB. And while LB didn't look as town as I remember...I just didn't get scumvibes at all. Instead, it felt like he's a player that a higher-level scumhunter will go for. Not mislynch bait, but not unlynchable and not someone who scumreading will have consequences for.

[CarbonFiber]

1) What didn't you like about my townread on Mac?

2) Why did you think me attempting to work with specific players was manipulation and equate it to your Too Many Heads posting when you know as I well as I do that working with specific players is beneficial as town? In fact, I've seen you stress a lot about how town need to understand other player's reasoning, persuade them, and appeal to them in your MD articles.

3) What made you change your mind into "can see Carbon as town" from being so certain we were scum?

~ F-16

[CarbonFiber]

Also, can you elaborate more on why you think scumreading LB wouldn't have consequences, and which scumreads would and why?

~ F-16

[MastinSSK]

1) What didn't you like about my townread on Mac?

I don't remember?

2) Why did you think me attempting to work with specific players was manipulation and equate it to your Too Many Heads posting when you know as I well as I do that working with specific players is beneficial as town?

The way it was done? Like, it doesn't look like you're looking for their input. It looks like you're trying to put them into a specific position that's advantageous to you.

3) What made you change your mind into "can see Carbon as town" from being so certain we were scum?

I saw potential town thoughts and had stronger suspects?

As I said, kinda...not here atm.

[The Fox and the Hound]

This whole "I'm soooo town for no reason" "You're soooo scum for no reason" deal is a massive distraction from anyone accomplishing anything at all.

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler:

I want to believe, AP.
I want to believe.

I believe that you will come around eventually.

Because I simply am. not. seeing. the town. Like...this just feels off. Your take on things.

Maybe because I've barely posted my take on things? You yourself said that my Mac read was good. You are pretty clearly town this game.

If you want to tell me why my LB gut reaction is bad, Im all ears.

Except you quite explicitly did. You assumed it was the trolling causing me to read you as scum, when it was, well...everything.

NO I DID NOT. I was hoping to start a conversation with you about it. Yes my phrasing could come across as leading, but in my head it wasn't. Imagine me saying it skeptically with a little reservation. And pretty much all I had done up to that point was troll around for reactions (but thats not the point) because I didn't want to read anyhow. The point is that whatever you think you see or don't see is...mistaken and I have no idea why you are assuming my attitude is scum here rather than town.

[AngryPidgeon]

This whole "I'm soooo town for no reason" "You're soooo scum for no reason" deal is a massive distraction from anyone accomplishing anything at all.

Yes, I already said this.

This is a pretty easy non-committal thing to say here.

[MastinSSK]

Also, can you elaborate more on why you think scumreading LB wouldn't have consequences, and which scumreads would and why?

Because it's the type of player I push as scum, basically. A player you can actually get mislynched, but won't receive negative attention for pushing especially since scumreading them is plausible for town, but doesn't look like mislynch bait.

You yourself said that my Mac read was good.

No, your Mac read is obvious. Nobody's scumreading Mac nor will anyone ever scumread Mac because Mac's obviously town so townreading him is nothing special. At all.

I have no idea why you are assuming my attitude is scum here rather than town.

If I knew that, I'd actually be able to lynch you.

[AngryPidgeon]

Like mastin. I get that the "I'm town, what are you doing, its obvious" is exactly what I would say as scum (and town). But my entry post was really pretty town, especially the rolecard bit? As scum I do my best to ignore you and encourage you being ridiculous when possible. (GoC mafia). This really isn't scum me and I'd say Im baffled but Im willing to drop it cause you have a right to be paranoid.

Also, I took the "I'd let him live but hed probably kill us all" as a compliment

[AngryPidgeon]

No, your Mac read is obvious. Nobody's scumreading Mac nor will anyone ever scumread Mac because Mac's obviously town so townreading him is nothing special. At all.

Keep in mind that I literally have read nothing other than posts since I replaced in, a couple posts from your ISO, couple posts from Fox/Hound, and Mac. I cant tell if you are arguing that I somehow suspected/knew people were/are townreading Mac and that makes my townread on him less valid, but ok.

You know damn well the reasons behind my townread should matter more anyhow.

[MastinSSK]

But my entry post was really pretty town, especially the rolecard bit?

The problem with actual obvtown entrances is that they're often not tangible. Like...I know I am obvtown. But I can't tell you why SSK was or why I am. I know it's true. I can't point to it being true.

You...are. Basically, actual obvtownness is not solidified; faked obvtownness can be pointed to.

As scum I do my best to ignore you and encourage you being ridiculous when possible.

Which is, y'know, what I feel like you're kinda doing here, though this is an oversimplification of your scumplay and we both know it.

[AngryPidgeon]

You...are. Basically, actual obvtownness is not solidified; faked obvtownness can be pointed to.

Everything can be pointed to. And if this were true youd have something on me other than "But, but. HES SCUM. I just KNOW it."

Which is, y'know, what I feel like you're kinda doing here, though this is an oversimplification of your scumplay and we both know it.

Except not even remotely? My scumplay IS malleable, much like my townplay. Recently, my scumplay has been more antihero mafia-esque and my town play is, bluntly, this. You know Im right.

[MastinSSK]

Everything can be pointed to. And if this were true youd have something on me other than "But, but. HES SCUM. I just KNOW it."

This is a really, really bad answer. It's a cop-out then deflection.

Recently, my scumplay has been more antihero mafia-esque.

My memory must be muddy considering your play here

does

seem

extremely

akin to antihero mafia.

[AngryPidgeon]

Everything can be pointed to. And if this were true youd have something on me other than "But, but. HES SCUM. I just KNOW it."

This is a really, really bad answer. It's a cop-out then deflection.

Recently, my scumplay has been more antihero mafia-esque.

My memory must be muddy considering your play here

does

seem

extremely

akin to antihero mafia.

There wasn't anything to respond to. You said that fake obvtownness can be pointed to. You aren't even pointing to anything. You flatout admitted that if you COULD you might be able to actually lynch me.

If you think this is me from Antihero mafia, you should see an optometrist.

[MastinSSK]

You said that fake obvtownness can be pointed to. You aren't even pointing to anything.

You're tying two different points together that are completely different things.

I'm saying that if a player's actually obvtown, they can say they are but won't be able to explain it. That they can't point to a specific post and say "that makes me obvtown".
I'm also saying that I can't point to anything specific about you that makes you scum.

The two are entirely separate things.

[Titan]

Okay so, I'm going to ramble a bit. If I don't make sense, don't mind me, I've been swamped under a pile of grading and my brain is fried. I'm leaning town, I want to even say they're a strong town read but I'm slightly held back there. I'm not even sure why really. Arthur has them as a scum read, but he didn't respond to my questions about his reads this weekend. Basically bork looks town, and I'm somewhat dependent on others for reaffirming that read. So far ferry and Orc seem to have him as strong town so I'm somewhat comforted there. I suppose they could all be scum doing the kumbaya were not distancing dance but it doesn't feel that way. Nachos a little different for me. His tone has occasionally been stilted but he also feels more free and lighthearted. I recently misread nacho for awhile in vesperia, and in not being able to see where he was town in that game I think I've added more markers to read him with. Anyway, I liked his comments to orci, and I can see his comments to you. One of the things he told me in vesperia was that after ice and fire he was rethinking some of his biases in an effort to not get so blindsided again, so in that regard I could see him being a little more cautious.

I think I might have overreacted to Nacho's entrance, as looking back there's really nothing to contradict bork's claim that he was merely trying to get a read on me/us and I actually like his posts when looking back at it objectively. This still means he wasn't townreading me though which is concerning and remains a surprise to me, and I think the only time he's gone so far as voting me before was N's game where he was scum, which I believe is where a large part of my concern is coming from. Ceph is pretty much where I'm at on this and right now I'm concerned enough about the possibility that we have inappropriately fueled each other's paranoia there that I'm willing to hold off on getting carried away ]and reconsider things later, and I imagine Ceph will be happy with this too. I think that's close to what our plan's been the whole time though, as it's not like we've decided to lynch Kagura or anything (yet ).
Also, is bork being town meta-based or based on his play here?

Well I think that if nacho is scum, I'll feel like something is off. Some recalibrations might be necessary after vesperia but I don't think I've lost my touch.

No, my reads not wholly meta though there is a sense there. Except for once, I've only experienced Bork inside a hydra, with ffery actually, and I *do* think there's a level of transparency to his thoughts but I'm not so certain he's as easy to read as he says. I looked back at we the purple which is the only time I've seen Bork as scum and out of a hydra, and I think the main thing I noticed are some tonal issues that are lacking here, which makes him more townish.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh I misunderstood your point then. My response to Mac is exactly what you are getting at then >.>

I'm preeeetty town this game, dunno how my opening post

s

didn't make that blazingly obvious. I cant claim town any harder than I already am.

I mean. I almost see your point, but I literally just started posting so there really only IS like a couple things I can reasonably posture about being town in my ISO.

[Titan]

Players in this game who should recognize AP's entrance:

Me
Desp
mastin
Tammy
BS
ns
Cupcake
p5
Mac

Would scum-mastin be brave enough to make a push that scum-him made verbatim with this many players overlapping from the previous game?

Mastin may have been scum in that game, but his push was sincere. Read the not-town qt. He 100% believed you guys were scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

and I think the main thing I noticed are some tonal issues that are lacking here

How did your read progression of bork go in that game and what tonal issues do you mean specifically?

[AngryPidgeon]

Mastin may have been scum in that game, but his push was sincere. Read the not-town qt. He 100% believed you guys were scum.

Which is still unbelievable, but I guess. Thats some amazing scumplay to lie to yourself so well.

[Titan]

and I think the main thing I noticed are some tonal issues that are lacking here

How did your read progression of bork go in that game and what tonal issues do you mean specifically?

I was in a hydra with nacho and had never played with Bork before, I let nacho handle that read.

Not interested in telling you what things by tone I think were more present in that scum game as it's something I'd like to see if it happens or doesn't organically. (I haven't seen it yet though).

[AngryPidgeon]

Alright, thats a pretty town sentiment re: Borktells.

What is your reason for voting BRO/Desp?

[AngryPidgeon]

On a semi-related note, I sort of don't like Bork in ISO, but they've said some things that look a little town from a hydra angle, so conflicted. Bork should come out and play, so I can nail him like I did in Posh mafia.

[Cabd]

Did you know? The tales series was popularized in the US by a fan translation of Tales of Phantasia, one that was notable for adding in random swearing and sexual overtones.

[Yulia Jue]

Votecount 1-10 (unchanged from 1-9)

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

CupcakePanda (1): Lord Business
PeregrineV (2): Red Gyarados, Breakfast With Stalin
MastinSSK (2): CupcakePanda, Carbon Fiber
Just Sheep Us (1): Titan
Carbon Fiber (1): Mac
AngryPidgeon (2): Rancid Broderick Drake, The Fox and the Hound,

MastinSSK

The Fox and the Hound (3): Kagura, orcinus_theoriginal, AngryPidgeon

Not Voting (4): Yukari Yakumo, Just Sheep Us, Clyton, PeregrineV

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)