Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)

[NicoRobin]

@the worst remember Stockport and how town wasn't even able to catch me? If you couldn't do that, then there's no way you'd be able to catch mastina.

[Reality Check]

There's lots of games where town lynched scum and scum still won... so fucking what? There's also lots of games where town lynched for information and scum won. That's a terrible way to determine whether the logic itself is pro-scum or pro-town and whether it's more likely to be pushed by scum or more likely to be pushed by town.

My point is that the logic is pushed by scum more often than it's pushed by town because it's an easy way to push for mislynches as well as an easy way to keep scum partners alive for longer. It's especially harmful to a town that just mislynched or a town that no lynched - as we did. I've even pushed this logic before as scum, with the specific intent of saving partners and delaying the town from doing anything helpful to their causes. As a matter of theory, the best town play on any given day is lynching scum, because the longer a scum player is alive, the more power scum has, period. You weaken scum by lynching them, and the weaker they are, the more chance town has of winning because there's less ability for scum to manipulate town in the night and day. Towns win by lynching the player most likely to be scum, not by lynching the player most likely to give you "information" (what the fuck does that even mean in this context?) - and the fact you're pushing this logic is scummy, regardless of your actual alignment or theoretical beliefs about how to play mafia.

As for the idea that this playerlist won't come together, that's a bullshit way to think about this game and it's especially manipulative in this instance - the town isn't coming together regardless of who we lynch because we've got a bunch of shit posters, you (incompetent town or scum), the worst (incompetent town or scum), and so here we are, arguing about dumb things instead of talking about things that matter, like Random's alignment, or Sajj's alignment. You guys would rather vote me for voicing a completely reasonable theoretical point about how to play the game instead of working together to solve the alignment of players who are escaping notice while doing some pretty suspect things? Okay... Sure, this town is fucked if that's the case.

I'm going to try working with the people I think are town - at the moment, that's Nancy and Nico - and if you're town hopefully you'll get on board and start working with us to figure out alignments.

jesus

alright I'll pick this apart and respond to this piece by piece

[Scioness Sajj]

sajj pls stop wiki scumtelling

oh

my bad lol

[Shoshin]

alright I'll pick this apart and respond to this piece by piece

I'm not reading your response.

[Reality Check]

tomorrow?

if that's at me i don't understand

it's day two today, RC just never switched the title

[NicoRobin]

Meh, fuck this. No point putting effort into a losing game. If you the worst and Reality are scum, I don't see any hope of convincing anyone to lynch them - and if they're town, they're actively not working with me, they're making me paranoid as fuck that they're scum, and apparently they want to lynch me, so I've got nothing left to do here.

If Nancy or Nico want to talk about things, let me know.

the baby with power can convince others to lynch there if they're scum.

[Reality Check]

alright I'll pick this apart and respond to this piece by piece

I'm not reading your response.

cool then I can just make a case for why you're scum for it instead

[Shoshin]

Reality, this is what you need to be talking about right now:

Reality, what're your thoughts on Random? Please respond to my analysis there.

[NicoRobin]

via results.

[Scioness Sajj]

RC - ah right, well no I meant later in the game.

[the worst]

@the worst remember Stockport and how town wasn't even able to catch me? If you couldn't do that, then there's no way you'd be able to catch mastina.

that's what I mean I just think we lynch her if it comes to it

also I was a lot newer in Stockport and tried to solve mechanically I'm still a bit tilted about the core game mechanics being misleading but ah well

[Shoshin]

the baby with power can convince others to lynch there if they're scum.

Given Reality's earlier scumread on Random, but now voting me for dumb reasons while ignoring my analysis on Random, it's probably a good idea to check Reality. The Worst calling their vote good is also concerning, as well as the way he's dodging my questions and making it impossible for us to work together and intentionally making me more and more paranoid of him in a game where the town desperately needs to be coming together, not creating needless rifts.

[Scioness Sajj]

oh boy

[Randomnamechange]

i already explained why ur analysis was bad

[Shoshin]

Sajj, what're your thoughts on Random, Reality, and the worst?

[Scioness Sajj]

who knows honestly

let me roll a dice

[Shoshin]

Cool. We're rolling dice. I'm done with this game. Dunno why I even wasted my time reading this shit show.

[NicoRobin]

who knows honestly

let me roll a dice

That's banned. :O

[Shoshin]

Even our mod doesn't care about the game lol...

[Scioness Sajj]

Reality and the worst are my underground buddies, add nancy to it and that's a town block
random i have no clue, i haven't read any post longer than 3 lines from last few pages. i have also missed his shitpost

i'm in good mood to be useless, sorry

p.edit relax a little Shoshin it's not so serious, I will get back to you with more serious stuff later
ouch, thanks for letting me know Nico. saved a life!

[NicoRobin]

If nothing else, this amuses me.

[Reality Check]

There's lots of games where town lynched scum and scum still won... so fucking what? There's also lots of games where town lynched for information and scum won. That's a terrible way to determine whether the logic itself is pro-scum or pro-town and whether it's more likely to be pushed by scum or more likely to be pushed by town.

Okay, here's the thing:

Town wins by lynching the entire scumteam. Individual lynches don't matter outside of the direct impact it has towards this goal. The primary way to get accurate lynches is information. Therefore, the way town wins the game is by increasing the information per day higher than the amount needed to catch all the scum. Player skill also plays into this in the sense that as player skill as town goes up, the information they need to catch scum goes down. As player skill as scum goes up, the more information is needed to catch them.

Creature is a low information lynch in that it gives us

some

information about the setup, but it's low on information because scum had to have gone into the game already knowing he'd be caught immediately, so it's highly likely that him being caught is planned.

My point is that the logic is pushed by scum more often than it's pushed by town because it's an easy way to push for mislynches as well as an easy way to keep scum partners alive for longer. It's especially harmful to a town that just mislynched or a town that no lynched - as we did.

which is why the top three posters were sent away from the thread for day one, which... surprise surprise, includes this slot and the worst! By this logic, you should also be townreading Sajj + the worst since they were heavily pushing Creature.

I've even pushed this logic before as scum, with the specific intent of saving partners and delaying the town from doing anything helpful to their causes.

including sending the two people you're calling incompetent town or scum and a third you're trying to get a read on

As a matter of theory, the best town play on any given day is lynching scum, because the longer a scum player is alive, the more power scum has, period. You weaken scum by lynching them, and the weaker they are, the more chance town has of winning because there's less ability for scum to manipulate town in the night and day.

scum can manipulate scum lynches

I've done that before. I also got heavily townread for it, which carried me to the end of the game after I killed everybody who could reasonably solve the game and catch me

also, Creature isn't manipulating shit

if we get the impression that roles are actively having a huge impact against town, then yes he's a very good lynch, because at that point, then the information about the setup becomes a lot more valuable

Towns win by lynching the player most likely to be scum, not by lynching the player most likely to give you "information" (what the fuck does that even mean in this context?) - and the fact you're pushing this logic is scummy, regardless of your actual alignment or theoretical beliefs about how to play mafia.

I'll gladly lynch a town today if it nets two scum lynches day 3 and 4

As for the idea that this playerlist won't come together, that's a bullshit way to think about this game and it's especially manipulative in this instance - the town isn't coming together regardless of who we lynch because we've got a bunch of shit posters, you (incompetent town or scum), the worst (incompetent town or scum), and so here we are, arguing about dumb things instead of talking about things that matter, like Random's alignment, or Sajj's alignment. You guys would rather vote me for voicing a completely reasonable theoretical point about how to play the game instead of working together to solve the alignment of players who are escaping notice while doing some pretty suspect things? Okay... Sure, this town is fucked if that's the case.

so... basically you're agreeing with me that town is unlikely to come together

which is why I want to increase the odds that town is going to individually reach the same conclusion that scum is scum rather than just get scum lynches now

there's a such thing as a game over that takes multiple days to realize it's game over

I'm going to try working with the people I think are town - at the moment, that's Nancy and Nico - and if you're town hopefully you'll get on board and start working with us to figure out alignments.

no

you're getting lynched

[Reality Check]

the baby with power can convince others to lynch there if they're scum.

Given Reality's earlier scumread on Random, but now voting me for dumb reasons while ignoring my analysis on Random, it's probably a good idea to check Reality. The Worst calling their vote good is also concerning, as well as the way he's dodging my questions and making it impossible for us to work together and intentionally making me more and more paranoid of him in a game where the town desperately needs to be coming together, not creating needless rifts.

you mean the part where I called you and ArcAngel9 scum

and had randommidget as one of three slots to fill the other two scumslots

[the worst]

but
creature first [:

[Reality Check]

but
creature first [:

I will only accept this if you hang Shoshin tomorrow