mini normal 2042: labeled pictures meme mafia (game over)

[schadd_]

Spoiler: octopus

Vote count 3.2

Teacher (1):

Krazy

not voting (4):

Irrelephant11, teacher, Shoshin, xwing

with 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. day 3 ends november 31th at 12:00 central US time; in (expired on 2018-12-01 12:00:00)

mod notes

• gonna prod krazy and xwing at the end of today
  
• people seemed to be generally quite inactive durirng thanksgiving (including myself) so i added another day of deadline
  
• irrelephant and xwing are VLA on weekends

[/area]

[teacher]

Ok so you can’t actually point to anything he’s done. You’d rather just make a subvert political appeal to the conf!town and assume that both scum in a game that got to lylo are idiots (even after you spent late D2 screaming about how sho would die to steer any save there). Seems believable.

And I’m seated to go home. Be well.

[Irrelephant11]

alright well I guess I'll stop interacting with you, if you're town you're too confident I'm scum and we maybe lose anyway?
Literally not sure what some of the above post means
I'll re-read now

[Irrelephant11]

day 1: Carmen was a Town Ascetic 1-shot Tracker
night 1: Keyser Söze was a Vanilla Townie!
day 2: Alonzo was a Town Informed Neapolitan!
night 2: the worst was a Vanilla Townie!

Alonzo-slot was informed that Carmen was ascetic 1-shot tracker, and was a *full* neap? huh. I mean it's pretty undeniable that in case of town loss, invis is 80%+ to blame. Micros sure are hard when there's a game thrower
ascetic 1-shot tracker
informed Neapolitan, informed of tracker's entire role
vt x5

mafia... rolecop? roleblocker? 1-shot roleblocker?
mafia goon

ascetic 1-shot tracker
informed Neapolitan, informed of tracker's entire role
1-shot doctor
vt x4

mafia roleblocker
mafia goon

Spoiler: jokes, but also, it's possible

ascetic 1-shot tracker
informed Neapolitan, informed of tracker's entire role
vt x5

mafia 1-shot doctor
mafia goon

I don't see why it has to be the second, but I'll admit the first one does seem a tiny bit more likely

F me, Krazy/teacher/me all had strong townreads on xwing early game. This is the first time I'm really considering a teacher/krazy team

I'm learning right now that xwing crumbed. wow I *really* checked out after invis' flip.

[Irrelephant11]

I don't see why it has to be the second, but I'll admit the first one does seem a tiny bit more likely

flip these around

[Irrelephant11]

so here's a thought:
I don't think a Krazy/xwing team comes up with a claim so strong it convinces teacher xwing *must* be town, without much second guessing at all. teacher is sure xwing is telling the truth either because (1) teacher came up with the claim or (2) it's a Krazy/teacher scumteam and teacher is TMI-ing the truth of the claim
Having ruled out that scumteam,
VOTE: teacher
I also think it's teacher/xwing, if I had to pick. xwing "heal" crumb came after Sheep conftowned shoshin but before he flipped (i.e. why would town!xwing believe sheep enough to decide shoshin was the right person to save? Every townie thought sheep/alonzo was confscum)

@shoshin, sorry if I've made this hard for you to sort based on not-very-strong play from me, but I really just kinda hated playing this game after sheep ruined any chance of a mechanical solve. lmk if you're still struggling to sort me.

[Irrelephant11]

Irrel and krazy observations are not far from truth.. I would say I'm really not so engaged this game.. Im on vacay and phone posting so I don't have time to reread the whole game multiple times (like I actually do when I have time) so I'm mostly going on recent posts..
But early game I played as I intended to..
Happy thanksgiving all!

just came across this - happy belated thanksgiving to you!

[teacher]

@sho please give me a couple hours to get home and test one thing. Also let me know if you have any issues you want me to discuss.

Mostly I want to fact check elephant’s “town vote first at Lylo” claim against his actual games. My guess is that it was subtle townshading for his partner before the claim forced them to go all in. I can try to case him, but my sense is you are someone who makes up their own mind. The two things I find most telling are the lie and the unwillingness to follow conftown.

What is more likely:
Both X and I didn’t know how a Neapolitan worked, so “accidentally” left conf!town for lylo, or scum were (rightly) afraid of a doctor?

[teacher]

Also, though elephant didn’t announce it, that’s L-1

[Irrelephant11]

I said town vote first at lylo?
I mean I believe it - I read a theory article on the wiki about it - but I don't remember saying it

Anyway,
- what lie?
- I *am* following conftown (she has said you are scum multiple times)
- the idea that scum was afraid of a doctor does not preclude you/xwing being the scumteam. Actually, the fact I didn't even think of scum being afraid of a doctor until you brought it up is a reason to townread me, probably. And it would explain xwing crumbing doctor at the point she did, too: you two were already planning to claim doctor if we got to lylo (or you decided a 1v1 in mylo was worth it), and it was subtle enough you could just not bring it up if someone else claimed doctor.

pedit: yes, I did indeed think everyone was aware of the only vote placed this game phase without me saying anything

[teacher]

so here's a thought:
I don't think a Krazy/xwing team comes up with a claim so strong it convinces teacher xwing *must* be town, without much second guessing at all. teacher is sure xwing is telling the truth either because (1) teacher came up with the claim or (2) it's a Krazy/teacher scumteam and teacher is TMI-ing the truth of the claim
Having ruled out that scumteam,
VOTE: teacher
I also think it's teacher/xwing, if I had to pick. xwing "heal" crumb came after Sheep conftowned shoshin but before he flipped (i.e. why would town!xwing believe sheep enough to decide shoshin was the right person to save? Every townie thought sheep/alonzo was confscum)

@shoshin, sorry if I've made this hard for you to sort based on not-very-strong play from me, but I really just kinda hated playing this game after sheep ruined any chance of a mechanical solve. lmk if you're still struggling to sort me.

I have so many issues with this post, I dont know where to start.

• For F's sake, Im not convinced. I just find it dramatically more likely. (You also think its a "teensy bit" more likely in the abstract, but you havent factored in the lack of a Conf!town NK). If you really are town, pull your vote and tell me why I should think you're town.
  
• Your tinfoil "Teacher came up with the claim" idea is ridiculous. If I came up with the claim, would I advertise it in 777,
  before
  the FWS flip confirmed ascetic could only affect scum? Would I then hint at it in 979 and 981 when I had already pushed you as my preferred lynch for the day? Or would I just tell XWing what to do in scumchat and then change my read after the fact? Occam's, Brother.
  
• What does Sheep's flip have to do with XWing's crumb? Shoshin was one of the two hardest town slots at that time,
  as XWing said when explaining their choice
  . I had suggested a crumb and nobody disagreed. Why should X have crumbed someone else if Sheep was scum?

Now off to 1. Refute the Krazy meta case Point-by-point, 2. Find the Krazy scum game people keep talking about, and 3. Reexamine you. Im now at a computer and without kids if you do want to interact.

[teacher]

So I went back to Krazy's meta-case (991, and I cant really respond to it because it's a heck of a lot shallower than I remembered. All it is is that I RVS'ed my scumbuddy on page 3, and then shifted off the scumbuddy on page 9, presenting the shift as a full board read. Yup, thats true. But what is also true if you look at that game is that my reads remained entirely static. I pushed Gus/Aristo and Performer all game, kept my scumbuddies in null-scum all game, and kept my town block town all game. No shifts. A vast gulf from any of my town games, especially ones (like here) where I have been lost and so suspicious of every slot. Seriously, I challenge anybody other than Krazy to read me in Otters and in Newb 1882 (played during summer when I had time) and decide for themselves which one is more like here.

That said, in ISOing Krazy, I was reminded of this:

"You're misrepping that game"
>every post is tonally night and day

"You're only trying now"

>Your first encounter with me was me replacing into a game at lylo

So, I linked specific posts to explaiin why I thought you were misrepping that game. Specifically, you claimed I that I said I had no idea and would naked sheep you. But I in fact said I leaned HWS (in 771). You cant confront the facts, so you just say I'm "tonally off" -- a vague nothing. Likewise, you cant disagree with my comment that you havent provided game-advancing content (and even argued against the content we did have Day One), so point to an irrelevant fact (my history with you) to distract from the point. And I have more history with you than that.

Bottom line - and for Elephant's benefit - the lie was Krazy's unplanned comment about my willingness to sheep. As I listed, its present in all my town games, including with Krazy. Elephant doesnt deny it. He cant. So Krazy - the meta!wonder - got caught in a lie in order to achieve his preferred lynch at Lylo.

Now off to Krazy's scum game.

[teacher]

I said town vote first at lylo?

The first to vote is usually town in lylo

Irrelevant, but answering Elephant's question. Also not game-relevant, but since my team also stinks, I wanted to offer this thought for any Pack fans: link

[teacher]

Ummmm..... I actually went to figure out the vote first at Lylo thing (both in general and in Elephant's games) since I had not heard that before, and caught another lie.

Krazy, the meta!wonder, said that there was no scum material from Elephant to work with. I corrected him by linking one game. But Elephant has two. And its on his fricken Wiki (something that has been raised and discussed this game, w/r/t other slots). Can we please lynch this?

[teacher]

I can tell from Irrels early push on carmen he knows hes not lynching scum, but is certain he wants to eliminate the (undeclared) team of carm/sheep.

ergo I'm gonna take a swing at Irrel/Kraykray.

Just a reminder of this.

[teacher]

Elephant's point about town generally voting first at Lylo is in fact backed up by his games. I would be interested in seeing the wiki article if he can link it because I didnt find it.
Scum Vote First: 2 Newb 1869; how good is von flare at laser tag;
Town Vote First: 4 Newb 1875; Micro 824.2; Newb 1894; Mini2032; Newb1999
No Lylo: 9 Newb 1863, Micro 812 (mechanics), Micro 816 (mechanics); Mini 2018; Mini 2024; Open 735; Mini Theme 2022 (though this should count as town); Open737; Open 739;

[teacher]

and xwing is playing like I'd expect given [redacted] reasons

Everyone, and I mean everyone, who has read XWing's now completed games have noted the difference between games. So given that at this point you had lock-towned X, why did you think they were the same?

[teacher]

(and since you told Sho that it was a poor D1 read, I'll provide additional context and point out that it continued through at least 730.

I believe XWing's claim because it nicely explains their difference from meta AND makes sense as a setup spec, including given the NK. I doubt XWing played this different from Meta only to be able to fake claim. And they seem good enough to play better/closer to meta as scum. They made the case why they are town. I did too. Why are you town? (I.e., clearly Krazy is conf!scum for me, but like I said, Im not entirely closed on their partner, just find the sides more likely).

[xwing]

Sorry you rolled scum teacher..
VOTE: teacher

[Krazy]

If you think that bus will buy you enough towncred to put you over Relly, you're wrong xwing.

[xwing]

Nice try krazy you're next.. Teacher/krazy team..

[schadd_]

since u guys r around, are u both ok with scum thread release

[Krazy]

Yeah that's fine

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

final vc

Teacher (3):

Krazy, Irrelephant11, xwing

not voting (2):

teacher, Shoshin

with 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.

[schadd_]

;