Mafiascum.net

Alright, fuck it. I've been trying to parse this out and figure out if 1) I could weasel more information out of it first,

Or 2) this is even a good idea to out myself.

But I've come to the conclusion that I'm hurting town and leaving y'all in the dark by keeping it to myself. Gotta say it at some point so now it is.



This tells me a couple of things. Luke not saying anything about being roleblocked is telling me that he does not want to the rest of us to know that there are any roleblockers in the game, he's trying to sell that we have a Doctor and not a 2 RB setup. The other half of this that I think adds to it even more is the fact that nobody else has said anything about being roleblocked either. Unless somebody else wants to come forward, what this means is Luke either multitasked (reminder that he was the first and only one to bring up mafia multitasking in 998), or mafia didn't roleblock at all in an effort to keep town thinking we had a different setup. In mafia eyes, they shouldn't even have to roleblock Cyrus because if jailor saves him, he gets roleblocked anyways. He insinuates otherwise in 1001, and it doesn't make sense. There's definitely reason to kill or roleblock him, but it's completely superfluous to do both.

Other posts of his that I would like to point out are:

936. Considering he knows he was jailed, he knows the setup, this feels like a threat to the jailkeeper in a "come and try me" kind of way. But then in 938 he goes back to implying that there's just a doctor anyways, and no roleblockers.

999 is when he responds to my point about mass claiming. This is a perfectly reasonable response, but I think coming from a player that simply has a shit ton more information than the rest is a scary prospect. To me this feels like he's already figured out the jailor and just wants to push it another night to kill the power role before mass claim happens.

1002 he turns away from talking about mechanics and brings it back to our regularly scheduled programming, which again, is perfectly reasonable. But again we need to remember that he has more information than the rest of us. And I also feel like Luke isn't the kind of player to completely gloss over something like this. He's been very in-depth, very thorough, very particular all game, and this is the one thing that he quickly pushed through. He quickly insinuates "yeah I guess that there could be a jailor (he knows there is) but that's not important let's get back to business."

Now, is there a possibility that Luke is town and my power saved him? Of course there is. That's just the nature of the role. But that doesn't explain why he's deliberately trying to convince the rest of us that that's not the case.

The case in which Luke is town requires mafia to target Luke as well, and what would be the motive for that? Well, iirc most of us in day 1 were at least town leaning on Luke, and he has been a big asset in progressing the game forward, so it's understandable that mafia would see him as a threat. The issue that I have with this is that Cyrus apparently didn't even get roleblocked. It doesn't make sense to me that they would leave a known* power role open entirely, not targeting or roleblocking.

I might have more thoughts on the matter, but I'm currently going in circles about it, so I need to take a break and come back to it later with fresh eyes once everyone else has had a chance to comment.

All I know right now is that I can't sit here and watch you guys say "Luke is safe, Luke is town, Luke is off the table for today" when I know that something is going on with him.

VOTE: Lukewarm

In post 1075, Azeru wrote:Alright, fuck it. I've been trying to parse this out and figure out if 1) I could weasel more information out of it first,

Or 2) this is even a good idea to out myself.

But I've come to the conclusion that I'm hurting town and leaving y'all in the dark by keeping it to myself. Gotta say it at some point so now it is.

I am a Jailkeeper. I did not jail Cyrus. I jailed Luke.

This tells me a couple of things. Luke not saying anything about being roleblocked is telling me that he does not want to the rest of us to know that there are any roleblockers in the game, he's trying to sell that we have a Doctor and not a 2 RB setup. The other half of this that I think adds to it even more is the fact that nobody else has said anything about being roleblocked either. Unless somebody else wants to come forward, what this means is Luke either multitasked (reminder that he was the first and only one to bring up mafia multitasking in 998), or mafia didn't roleblock at all in an effort to keep town thinking we had a different setup. In mafia eyes, they shouldn't even have to roleblock Cyrus because if jailor saves him, he gets roleblocked anyways. He insinuates otherwise in 1001, and it doesn't make sense. There's definitely reason to kill or roleblock him, but it's completely superfluous to do both.

Other posts of his that I would like to point out are:

936. Considering he knows he was jailed, he knows the setup, this feels like a threat to the jailkeeper in a "come and try me" kind of way. But then in 938 he goes back to implying that there's just a doctor anyways, and no roleblockers.

999 is when he responds to my point about mass claiming. This is a perfectly reasonable response, but I think coming from a player that simply has a shit ton more information than the rest is a scary prospect. To me this feels like he's already figured out the jailor and just wants to push it another night to kill the power role before mass claim happens.

1002 he turns away from talking about mechanics and brings it back to our regularly scheduled programming, which again, is perfectly reasonable. But again we need to remember that he has more information than the rest of us. And I also feel like Luke isn't the kind of player to completely gloss over something like this. He's been very in-depth, very thorough, very particular all game, and this is the one thing that he quickly pushed through. He quickly insinuates "yeah I guess that there could be a jailor (he knows there is) but that's not important let's get back to business."

Now, is there a possibility that Luke is town and my power saved him? Of course there is. That's just the nature of the role. But that doesn't explain why he's deliberately trying to convince the rest of us that that's not the case.

The case in which Luke is town requires mafia to target Luke as well, and what would be the motive for that? Well, iirc most of us in day 1 were at least town leaning on Luke, and he has been a big asset in progressing the game forward, so it's understandable that mafia would see him as a threat. The issue that I have with this is that Cyrus apparently didn't even get roleblocked. It doesn't make sense to me that they would leave a known* power role open entirely, not targeting or roleblocking.

I might have more thoughts on the matter, but I'm currently going in circles about it, so I need to take a break and come back to it later with fresh eyes once everyone else has had a chance to comment.

All I know right now is that I can't sit here and watch you guys say "Luke is safe, Luke is town, Luke is off the table for today" when I know that something is going on with him.

VOTE: Lukewarm

you do realize if this is true then you blocked him in which case you helped town a lot by revealing this. i am sorry for being a jerk but yes that is the missing piece to the puzzle. as i said i asked the mod and was told that if scum was jail kept my action would still say he went no where. VOTE: lukewarm ps thank you you could have kepth it to your self

fyi before we hammer we need a game plane for tonight. we have a chance to 1# catch the last scum or at least have another confirm town. and this also means hc is fair game.

In post 1076, cyrus62 wrote:

In post 1075, Azeru wrote:Alright, fuck it. I've been trying to parse this out and figure out if 1) I could weasel more information out of it first,

Or 2) this is even a good idea to out myself.

But I've come to the conclusion that I'm hurting town and leaving y'all in the dark by keeping it to myself. Gotta say it at some point so now it is.

I am a Jailkeeper. I did not jail Cyrus. I jailed Luke.

This tells me a couple of things. Luke not saying anything about being roleblocked is telling me that he does not want to the rest of us to know that there are any roleblockers in the game, he's trying to sell that we have a Doctor and not a 2 RB setup. The other half of this that I think adds to it even more is the fact that nobody else has said anything about being roleblocked either. Unless somebody else wants to come forward, what this means is Luke either multitasked (reminder that he was the first and only one to bring up mafia multitasking in 998), or mafia didn't roleblock at all in an effort to keep town thinking we had a different setup. In mafia eyes, they shouldn't even have to roleblock Cyrus because if jailor saves him, he gets roleblocked anyways. He insinuates otherwise in 1001, and it doesn't make sense. There's definitely reason to kill or roleblock him, but it's completely superfluous to do both.

Other posts of his that I would like to point out are:

936. Considering he knows he was jailed, he knows the setup, this feels like a threat to the jailkeeper in a "come and try me" kind of way. But then in 938 he goes back to implying that there's just a doctor anyways, and no roleblockers.

999 is when he responds to my point about mass claiming. This is a perfectly reasonable response, but I think coming from a player that simply has a shit ton more information than the rest is a scary prospect. To me this feels like he's already figured out the jailor and just wants to push it another night to kill the power role before mass claim happens.

1002 he turns away from talking about mechanics and brings it back to our regularly scheduled programming, which again, is perfectly reasonable. But again we need to remember that he has more information than the rest of us. And I also feel like Luke isn't the kind of player to completely gloss over something like this. He's been very in-depth, very thorough, very particular all game, and this is the one thing that he quickly pushed through. He quickly insinuates "yeah I guess that there could be a jailor (he knows there is) but that's not important let's get back to business."

Now, is there a possibility that Luke is town and my power saved him? Of course there is. That's just the nature of the role. But that doesn't explain why he's deliberately trying to convince the rest of us that that's not the case.

The case in which Luke is town requires mafia to target Luke as well, and what would be the motive for that? Well, iirc most of us in day 1 were at least town leaning on Luke, and he has been a big asset in progressing the game forward, so it's understandable that mafia would see him as a threat. The issue that I have with this is that Cyrus apparently didn't even get roleblocked. It doesn't make sense to me that they would leave a known* power role open entirely, not targeting or roleblocking.

I might have more thoughts on the matter, but I'm currently going in circles about it, so I need to take a break and come back to it later with fresh eyes once everyone else has had a chance to comment.

All I know right now is that I can't sit here and watch you guys say "Luke is safe, Luke is town, Luke is off the table for today" when I know that something is going on with him.

VOTE: Lukewarm

you do realize if this is true then you blocked him in which case you helped town a lot by revealing this. i am sorry for being a jerk but yes that is the missing piece to the puzzle. as i said i asked the mod and was told that if scum was jail kept my action would still say he went no where. VOTE: lukewarm ps thank you you could have kepth it to your self

about the whole voting Luke, Im not following the logic on why Luke is confirmed mafia, isnt there a 50/50 chance that he got Rbd OR he got saved. Like azeru's post outlined some things that outline why the first thing is probs most true, but why are u 2 so oppurtinistic?

and there's the 2nd scum i knew it.

as i said luke wasn't saved why would scum target lukewarm over me. two their was no role block last night because they got locked up. 3 no deaths because scum was locked up . we know their is a role blocker so why wouldn't scum block me. 4 i warned town last night that i would most likely be blocked. 5 lukewarm was the one to say we should wait for day2 to short me hence he was going block me.

queston to town should we vote hockey or luke off.

In post 1080, cyrus62 wrote:as i said luke wasn't saved why would scum target lukewarm over me. two their was no role block last night because they got locked up. 3 no deaths because scum was locked up . we know their is a role blocker so why wouldn't scum block me. 4 i warned town last night that i would most likely be blocked. 5 lukewarm was the one to say we should wait for day2 to short me hence he was going block me.

ok nvm, lets bring this vote to E-2 then, jailkeeper is such a confusing role lol

VOTE: Lukewarm

as said who ever hammers before intent or before i can tell the jail keeper my plan is scum.

UNVOTE: just in case

azeru lock up hc if you or i die hc is town if no one does hc is scum i will target std . and this will either catch scum or give us 2 more town.

Just did a light read while in the car heading home, I don't have time for an in depth read, but I will note this:
There is still a chance of Luke being town, if he were the target of the kill rather than the perpetrator. So I think it might be interesting to look at who might want Luke dead specifically
That said, voting Luke could be the way to go today, and I'll look over his ISO again tomorrow

you guys realize this is basically a guilty on lukewarm. there is a role blocker. why wouldn't i be role blocked?

In post 1075, Azeru wrote:Alright, fuck it. I've been trying to parse this out and figure out if 1) I could weasel more information out of it first,

Or 2) this is even a good idea to out myself.

But I've come to the conclusion that I'm hurting town and leaving y'all in the dark by keeping it to myself. Gotta say it at some point so now it is.

I am a Jailkeeper. I did not jail Cyrus. I jailed Luke.

This tells me a couple of things. Luke not saying anything about being roleblocked is telling me that he does not want to the rest of us to know that there are any roleblockers in the game, he's trying to sell that we have a Doctor and not a 2 RB setup. The other half of this that I think adds to it even more is the fact that nobody else has said anything about being roleblocked either. Unless somebody else wants to come forward, what this means is Luke either multitasked (reminder that he was the first and only one to bring up mafia multitasking in 998), or mafia didn't roleblock at all in an effort to keep town thinking we had a different setup. In mafia eyes, they shouldn't even have to roleblock Cyrus because if jailor saves him, he gets roleblocked anyways. He insinuates otherwise in 1001, and it doesn't make sense. There's definitely reason to kill or roleblock him, but it's completely superfluous to do both.

Other posts of his that I would like to point out are:

936. Considering he knows he was jailed, he knows the setup, this feels like a threat to the jailkeeper in a "come and try me" kind of way. But then in 938 he goes back to implying that there's just a doctor anyways, and no roleblockers.

999 is when he responds to my point about mass claiming. This is a perfectly reasonable response, but I think coming from a player that simply has a shit ton more information than the rest is a scary prospect. To me this feels like he's already figured out the jailor and just wants to push it another night to kill the power role before mass claim happens.

1002 he turns away from talking about mechanics and brings it back to our regularly scheduled programming, which again, is perfectly reasonable. But again we need to remember that he has more information than the rest of us. And I also feel like Luke isn't the kind of player to completely gloss over something like this. He's been very in-depth, very thorough, very particular all game, and this is the one thing that he quickly pushed through. He quickly insinuates "yeah I guess that there could be a jailor (he knows there is) but that's not important let's get back to business."

Now, is there a possibility that Luke is town and my power saved him? Of course there is. That's just the nature of the role. But that doesn't explain why he's deliberately trying to convince the rest of us that that's not the case.

The case in which Luke is town requires mafia to target Luke as well, and what would be the motive for that? Well, iirc most of us in day 1 were at least town leaning on Luke, and he has been a big asset in progressing the game forward, so it's understandable that mafia would see him as a threat. The issue that I have with this is that Cyrus apparently didn't even get roleblocked. It doesn't make sense to me that they would leave a known* power role open entirely, not targeting or roleblocking.

I might have more thoughts on the matter, but I'm currently going in circles about it, so I need to take a break and come back to it later with fresh eyes once everyone else has had a chance to comment.

All I know right now is that I can't sit here and watch you guys say "Luke is safe, Luke is town, Luke is off the table for today" when I know that something is going on with him.

VOTE: Lukewarm

I'm sitting here trying to parse out all the implications of this. There have been zero blocks claimed, which is why I was assuming doctor. If you're a JK, that means there's a Mafia Roleblocker. If Luke is that roleblocker, would that mean his block was blocked?

If Luke were not the RB, surely one of us might have been blocked instead.... unless the RB chose not to block? And does a vanilla know they've been blocked?

Looking at it from the other side. If Luke is *not* mafia, and we trust Azeru's claim here (spoiler: I do), then why the heck was there no kill last night?

Could this be a gambit? If we elim Luke and he's town, Az is the elim tomorrow. It can't be worth it to trade 1 for 1.

Am I missing something? Is there a possible way this isn't a knockout blow?

Well, uh, that changes things.

@Azeru, reading through 1075, it seems like you assumed I knew that I had been jailed, but I had no idea. I am a VT, and VTs are not told that they were jailed/role blocked, because they don't have any actions that failed.

I guess that this means I was the NK target, and you saved me.

I am going to look and see who I think was the most likely to try and kill me, and see if I can guess what the scum team was doing for us to end up here.

I understand why you are suspicious of me given what you know - but please don't speed elim me. I at least want enough time to see if I can put a solve out there, to try and help you guys after I am gone

In post 1088, Pavowski wrote:

In post 1075, Azeru wrote:Alright, fuck it. I've been trying to parse this out and figure out if 1) I could weasel more information out of it first,

Or 2) this is even a good idea to out myself.

But I've come to the conclusion that I'm hurting town and leaving y'all in the dark by keeping it to myself. Gotta say it at some point so now it is.

I am a Jailkeeper. I did not jail Cyrus. I jailed Luke.

This tells me a couple of things. Luke not saying anything about being roleblocked is telling me that he does not want to the rest of us to know that there are any roleblockers in the game, he's trying to sell that we have a Doctor and not a 2 RB setup. The other half of this that I think adds to it even more is the fact that nobody else has said anything about being roleblocked either. Unless somebody else wants to come forward, what this means is Luke either multitasked (reminder that he was the first and only one to bring up mafia multitasking in 998), or mafia didn't roleblock at all in an effort to keep town thinking we had a different setup. In mafia eyes, they shouldn't even have to roleblock Cyrus because if jailor saves him, he gets roleblocked anyways. He insinuates otherwise in 1001, and it doesn't make sense. There's definitely reason to kill or roleblock him, but it's completely superfluous to do both.

Other posts of his that I would like to point out are:

936. Considering he knows he was jailed, he knows the setup, this feels like a threat to the jailkeeper in a "come and try me" kind of way. But then in 938 he goes back to implying that there's just a doctor anyways, and no roleblockers.

999 is when he responds to my point about mass claiming. This is a perfectly reasonable response, but I think coming from a player that simply has a shit ton more information than the rest is a scary prospect. To me this feels like he's already figured out the jailor and just wants to push it another night to kill the power role before mass claim happens.

1002 he turns away from talking about mechanics and brings it back to our regularly scheduled programming, which again, is perfectly reasonable. But again we need to remember that he has more information than the rest of us. And I also feel like Luke isn't the kind of player to completely gloss over something like this. He's been very in-depth, very thorough, very particular all game, and this is the one thing that he quickly pushed through. He quickly insinuates "yeah I guess that there could be a jailor (he knows there is) but that's not important let's get back to business."

Now, is there a possibility that Luke is town and my power saved him? Of course there is. That's just the nature of the role. But that doesn't explain why he's deliberately trying to convince the rest of us that that's not the case.

The case in which Luke is town requires mafia to target Luke as well, and what would be the motive for that? Well, iirc most of us in day 1 were at least town leaning on Luke, and he has been a big asset in progressing the game forward, so it's understandable that mafia would see him as a threat. The issue that I have with this is that Cyrus apparently didn't even get roleblocked. It doesn't make sense to me that they would leave a known* power role open entirely, not targeting or roleblocking.

I might have more thoughts on the matter, but I'm currently going in circles about it, so I need to take a break and come back to it later with fresh eyes once everyone else has had a chance to comment.

All I know right now is that I can't sit here and watch you guys say "Luke is safe, Luke is town, Luke is off the table for today" when I know that something is going on with him.

VOTE: Lukewarm

I'm sitting here trying to parse out all the implications of this. There have been zero blocks claimed, which is why I was assuming doctor. If you're a JK, that means there's a Mafia Roleblocker. If Luke is that roleblocker, would that mean his block was blocked?

If Luke were not the RB, surely one of us might have been blocked instead.... unless the RB chose not to block? And does a vanilla know they've been blocked?

Looking at it from the other side. If Luke is *not* mafia, and we trust Azeru's claim here (spoiler: I do), then why the heck was there no kill last night?

Could this be a gambit? If we elim Luke and he's town, Az is the elim tomorrow. It can't be worth it to trade 1 for 1.

Am I missing something? Is there a possible way this isn't a knockout blow?

yes pav you are . i wasn't blocked a role blocker would have aimed at me . my night action would, have not gone though . they however didnt know about the jail keeper . so they didnt know they were going to be locked up so they didnt block them and the mod said even if scum is locked up the town tracker action will still go though. so its like this luke blocked me but got blocked him self resulting in none of his actions going though.

In post 1090, Lukewarm wrote:Well, uh, that changes things.

@Azeru, reading through 1075, it seems like you assumed I knew that I had been jailed, but I had no idea. I am a VT, and VTs are not told that they were jailed/role blocked, because they don't have any actions that failed.

I guess that this means I was the NK target, and you saved me.

I am going to look and see who I think was the most likely to try and kill me, and see if I can guess what the scum team was doing for us to end up here.

I understand why you are suspicious of me given what you know - but please don't speed elim me. I at least want enough time to see if I can put a solve out there, to try and help you guys after I am gone

this is a flat out lie.

One thought that crossed my mind just now, is whether or not the scum team would know if they were jailed or if their target were jailed at the start of the day?

Like, if they tried to kill me, and then the day started with me alive, would they get a "your target was protected" or conversely if a mafia were jailed, would they get a "your nk was blocked" and since they did not get that message, they would automatically know that I was blocked?

I think I am going to PM the mod for clarification on this, because that would have made a big difference in how they handled start of day I think.

In post 1092, cyrus62 wrote:

In post 1090, Lukewarm wrote:Well, uh, that changes things.

@Azeru, reading through 1075, it seems like you assumed I knew that I had been jailed, but I had no idea. I am a VT, and VTs are not told that they were jailed/role blocked, because they don't have any actions that failed.

I guess that this means I was the NK target, and you saved me.

I am going to look and see who I think was the most likely to try and kill me, and see if I can guess what the scum team was doing for us to end up here.

I understand why you are suspicious of me given what you know - but please don't speed elim me. I at least want enough time to see if I can put a solve out there, to try and help you guys after I am gone

this is a flat out lie.

Is a VT being targeted by the Jailkeeper get notified? If I was supposed to be told, then it was a mod error. I will ask Ffery this too

In post 1093, Lukewarm wrote:One thought that crossed my mind just now, is whether or not the scum team would know if they were jailed or if their target were jailed at the start of the day?

Like, if they tried to kill me, and then the day started with me alive, would they get a "your target was protected" or conversely if a mafia were jailed, would they get a "your nk was blocked" and since they did not get that message, they would automatically know that I was blocked?

I think I am going to PM the mod for clarification on this, because that would have made a big difference in how they handled start of day I think.

no they dont know. hince why the jail keep is the best role . it works as a doc and a cop. in the longest newbi game its how we caught scum.

In post 1094, Lukewarm wrote:

In post 1092, cyrus62 wrote:

In post 1090, Lukewarm wrote:Well, uh, that changes things.

@Azeru, reading through 1075, it seems like you assumed I knew that I had been jailed, but I had no idea. I am a VT, and VTs are not told that they were jailed/role blocked, because they don't have any actions that failed.

I guess that this means I was the NK target, and you saved me.

I am going to look and see who I think was the most likely to try and kill me, and see if I can guess what the scum team was doing for us to end up here.

I understand why you are suspicious of me given what you know - but please don't speed elim me. I at least want enough time to see if I can put a solve out there, to try and help you guys after I am gone

this is a flat out lie.

Is a VT being targeted by the Jailkeeper get notified? If I was supposed to be told, then it was a mod error. I will ask Ffery this too

no and your not a vt. why would scum target a vt over the knew pr.

VOTE: lukewarm lets do this.

dont waste the jk revealing them selfs please town.

I am trying to come up with all of the possibilities where we end up with both Azeru claiming they jailkept me, Cyrus claiming they got a Tracker result, and there not being a NK with knowing that I am a vanilla townie. - Even if you don't believe me now, I still want to put it in the thread for everyone to look at after I flip.