Mini 535: Pick Your Poison 2 (Game Over!)


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Post Post #1100 (ISO) » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:01 am

Post by Patrick »

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eldarad (2) -- Ether, scotmany12

Not voting: eldarad, Yosarian2, Porochaz, YvonneSeer
6 alive, 4 to lynch.
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Post Post #1101 (ISO) » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:23 am

Post by scotmany12 »

eldarad wrote:
scotmany wrote:He successfully came into the game and lead a lynch on scum Gorrad. If he was scum he could have just as easily went after chaz. Note: Both of them could not have been scum, so it could not have been a simple choice of either/or for yos.
What makes you say that? Because it sounds like you are clearing Porochaz there.
If Yos is scum, chaz cannot be scum. It's not possible since we already know the other two scum were Gorrad and Set. I am not clearing chaz, but I am pretty much clearing Yos. If he was scum, chaz was an easy lynch to push, and frankly, I don't think much fire would have went to him when chaz turned up town (once again, chaz cannot be scum if yos was).
eldarad wrote:
scotmany wrote:So now I start to try and build a case against Elderad. Looking through Jordan, he avoids Gorrad and Set almost completely. Basically, Jordan didn't do much. I actually had him as the weak doc due to him really staying under the radar. Looking over his posts he avoids both Set and Chaz alot until right before he is replaced.
I already addressed this when Ether mentioned it. Jordan didn't do much of anything. That's why he was replaced. Saying that Jordan avoids Setael and Gorrad is only true because Jordan avoided everyone by simply not posting.
Why have you only brought this up now? Why didn't you mention it at the time? For example, I don't recall you asking the mod to prod Jordan.
Not true. Jordan made one long post early in the game evaluating everyone. I think both Gorrad and Set were neutral to him. He has attacked jd, chaz, and me. He comments on other's posts, but seems to avoid gorrad and set all together until right before he is replaced. Also:
scotmany12 wrote:Can we get a prod on bout lulu and jordan?
I did ask for a prod.
eldarad wrote:
scot wrote:I think there is a distinct difference here between what Jordan does and what say me/jd did. Both me and jd were willing to lynch either chaz or Gorrad(jd flipped between the two a couple of times). Jordan, however, wants to save Gorrad for tomorrow. It just does not sit right with me. Scum trying to give the GF at least another night perhaps.
I'm not seeing a distinct difference, to be honest. Mentioning how JD flipped between Porochaz and Gorrad doesn't really reflect on how you behaved. Although you have tried to link yourself to JD here, which is interesting.
Why do you think scum would try to specifically allow the GF to survive, when the cop is dead and we don't have a vig?
I didn't post that I had mentioned some number of times that I would have went for either chaz or gorrad. I was simply using both of us as examples. The role was really irrelevant, I just put it there for added effect. Jordan didn't say he could go for either/or, in fact he didn't mention any suspicion of gorrad until that post. Definitely a difference.

Yes, I disagree with you about Mizzy.
eldarad wrote:
scot wrote:Over the past through days, he had really peaked my scumdar. I really dislike his attack on Yos, and it all stems from what appears to be a misunderstanding between jd and lulu. Now if what Elderad says is true about that whole situation, Lulu would have discovered that jd is the doc. Now there were two kills after Gorrad was lynched. If they knew that jd was the weak doc(we discussed this) they would have no killed, thus putting doubt in my mind. This did not happen, thus I can assume it was just a misunderstanding between JD and Lulu.
This makes no sense.
The scum went after Bookitty, someone who they knew couldn't have been the weak doc. So they chose to kill someone who they *knew* wasn't a weak doc, rather than kill JD who had virtually outed himself.
I don't see how this shows that there was a misunderstanding at all.
We went over this when we were discussing how to use the weak doc and after jd was killed. It would benefit the scum to no kill that night that jd died while protecting set because it instills doubt in the town. Since they didn't do this, they were unaware of who the weak doc was. You make it sound like lulu figured out that jd was the doc. If what you say is true, and lulu is scum, the scum do not kill that night. This did not happen.
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Post Post #1102 (ISO) » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:20 am

Post by eldarad »

scotmany wrote:If Yos is scum, chaz cannot be scum. It's not possible since we already know the other two scum were Gorrad and Set. I am not clearing chaz, but I am pretty much clearing Yos. If he was scum, chaz was an easy lynch to push, and frankly, I don't think much fire would have went to him when chaz turned up town (once again, chaz cannot be scum if yos was).
Ah, I see what you mean now.
scotmany wrote:Not true. Jordan made one long post early in the game evaluating everyone. I think both Gorrad and Set were neutral to him.
hmm. It's true that Jordan described Gorrad as neutral. As for Setael, he wasn't that happy with ckillor's activity but seemed fairly positive about Setael's contribution.
He also found Ether neutral, so I don't think we can read too much into that.
scotmany wrote:I didn't post that I had mentioned some number of times that I would have went for either chaz or gorrad. I was simply using both of us as examples.
Indeed. Why didn't you post that
you
had mentioned it a number of times? Why did you decide instead to mention how 'you and JD' were willing to lynch either, and how 'JD flipped his vote between the two'?
scotmany wrote:The role was really irrelevant, I just put it there for added effect.
yup.
scotmany wrote:Yes, I disagree with you about Mizzy.
Really? I'm genuinely surprised. Almost incredulous in fact.
You don't think Mizzy was acting scummy at the start of Day 2? Or are you just reluctant to call things how you see them now that Mizzy is confirmed?
scotmany wrote:We went over this when we were discussing how to use the weak doc and after jd was killed.
It would benefit the scum to no kill that night that jd died while protecting set because it instills doubt in the town.
Since they didn't do this, they were unaware of who the weak doc was. You make it sound like lulu figured out that jd was the doc. If what you say is true, and lulu is scum, the scum do not kill that night. This did not happen.
Indeed we did. And there are a number of possible explanations.
The bit I bolded is the important part.
Is the benefit of "instilling doubt" in a town who already largely see Setael as scummy greater than the benefit of killing a confirmed townie? Given that we had played hypo-weak doc, the town would know who JD targeted so the amount of doubt instilled would probably be minimal.
If the scum made that calculation and decided it wasn't worth it then they may have chosen to cut Setael loose and get rid of a townie whilst they could.
So your conclusion isn't quite so clear cut as you made out.
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Post Post #1103 (ISO) » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:45 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Ok, like I said earlier, I think the last scum is probably either Scot or Jordan/Eldred, doing a re-read on them now.

Scot: Could go either way. The way he responded to Gorrad's scummy stuff after I made my case on it, the way he kept asking him questions and all that, is a point in his favor; the fact that he kept his vote on Porochaz while doing that is a point against him. Scot's recent posts make sense; I'm pretty neutral on him in general/

Jordan/Eldred: Early post by Jorden where he analyzes everyone is kind of scummy; I note he specifically finds both Gorrad and ckillor/Setael to be "neutral", which is where scum tend to put each other:
JordanA24 wrote:
Gorrad
Nothing to be picked up on in the Role Voting Stage
Gorrad wrote:Yeah, Ether, I don't quite understand either. You voted Bookitty, then in your next vote it seemed to me like you were defending her. I get your confusion, but I don't see how it's a scumtell.
Vote: Ether
.
Not sure I agree with this. She wasn't really defending Bookitty in her post. She made a point for her, but I wouldn't say she defended her.
Gorrad wrote:Scotmany, if you're not sure we have a vig, what DO you think we have?
Why shouldn't we have a Vig? Why do you think we do?

I agreed with his post against YS.

I find Gorrad reasonably neutral so far

...

ckillor/Setael: I mostly agreed with his choices for Mafia Roles, though RB wasn't such a good second choice IMO. Though he did change this to Encryptor, though this was after it became a universally popular choice, scum trying to fit it perhaps?

Plus points for questioning Yvonne's post about forming a bandwagon on Skitzer. Though he was then very inactive for an extended period. OK, the first week was due to the game dropping from the Watch List, I can accept that, but then he went for another week before his next post, another "Sorry for not posting for ages" posts. Personally, after a weeks abscence from the game, especially due to it dropping from the Watch List, I'd try to post something meaningful pretty quickly. I get a feeling he may have been deliberatly avoiding the game, especially his second apology post was his last.

I liked Setael's first post though, not only did she mention her opinions on Skitzer and Yvonne, the two main topics at the time, but she also suggested an alternative and very reasonable target for our suspicions as well. I'd figure an opprtunistic scum may well just stick with mainly commenting about Skitz and Yvonne, but Set could be smart scum who is aware of this. But overall, I liked the post. Though, tbh, it doesn't quite counterbalance ckillor's inactivity, which I found pretty scummy.
Pretty much neutral on both of the other scum, with very wishy-washy "Well, I like this, but I don't like this, but I liked this..." type comments. ALso note that at the end of this post he voted Porochez.

Jordan was an off-and-on lurker. Don't like his attack against Jdodge. He finally agrees with one minor point against Gorrad, but only as part of an attempt to get Porochez lynched, and focusing on a link between Gorrad and Porochez (much like Setael was doing), possibly with the thought that if he could link them together but then lynch Porochez and have him show up as town Gorrad would look better.

When Eldred comes in and comments on everyone, he says very little about Setael even though he commented on almost everyone else in the game , which is interesting. First thing he says about Setael was to mention that two things in her initial post were "interesting" (without saying why they were interesting or what they mean) and there was this minor nitpick:
eldarad wrote:
Setael wrote:I agree that Gorrad and Porochaz are linked - either both town or (in the unlikely even that I'm wrong about Yvonne), both scum.
I don't really see how two townies can be 'linked' except through masonry or possibly some kind of investigative role.
Looks like he's trying to find SOMETHING to disagree with her on, even though it's a point that really means nothing; there's not much else about her at all, except for a little I'll talk about in the next section.

His comments on Gorrad are also interesting. He does not mention Gorrad's name even once during his day 1 analysis. Look at his discription of the end of day 1:
eldred wrote: *lots of talk about scot lurking and Lulu lurking.*
Skitzer makes a slip that costs him his life.
Porochaz reappears, and again fabricates quotes, this time to attack Lulu.
*Skitzer claims cop and is promptly lynched*
Note that:
1. He makes a point of specifically blaiming Skitzer for his own lynch, presumably absolving everyone else (especally Gorrad) from responsibility for it.
2. He avoids mentioning that when Skitzer was "promptly lynched", that it was Gorrad who came out of nowhere and hammered him after the cop claim. Seems a very interesting omision, like he's trying to perhaps trying gloss over Gorrad's role in the lynch.

During his day 2 analyis, he can't avoid mentioning Gorrad, but I don't like the tone of his analysis here. He seems to constatnly be questioning why people are attacking him, trying to undermine the arguments against him, and basically it feels like he's trying to defend Gorrad without being obveous about it. I'll quote below every time he mentions Gorrad in his analysis here; read it, guys, and see if you agree with me about the kind of wierd tone he's taking here.
eldred wrote: Ether votes Garrod for...what? Hammering? Or perhaps for hammering nonchalently?
...
Garrod votes Yvonne too.
...
Yvonne thinks Garrod quick-lynched Skitzer after the cop claim because Garrod is scum and knew the claim to be true.
Garrod disagrees with this assessment
Scot asks Gorrad why he hammered so quickly
Porochaz votes Mizzy for defending other people...
Yvonne attacks Gorrad for hammering (again). Also accuses him of tunnel-vision on Day 1 (despite saying repeatedly that she thought Gorrad was genuinely scumhunting on Day 1.)
...
Yvonne attacks Gorrad again
...
Yvonne continues to attack Gorrad, and extends this to Porochaz for his intervention
...
Gorrad explains why he disbelieved the Skitzer cop claim (It seems like the town agreed that the scum wouldn't give us cop, and Gorrad's mindset is consistent with this I guess. Unfortunately I wasn't here pre-game to yell at people about how rubbish a half-sane cop would be. More on this later, if people ask for my reasons)
...
Bookitty thinks Gorrad was stupid not scummy, and he was too blatant.
...
Porochaz now thinks that Gorrad looks scummy but other people look scummier.
...
Yvonne and Mizzy express the desire to use the weak doc to investigate Gorrad tonight
Yvonne would like to lynch Gorad. Failing that, she'd settle for a Porochaz lynch
...
I'll stop here for a second; he's already tried to undermine Yvonne's attack on Gorrad, and defended Gorrad on the grounds that he could understand why Gorrad would think there's not a cop and that other people thought the same thing, while not mentioning on the questionable nature of the speed-hammer before most other people had a chance to see and comment on the claim.

The next section here is really interesting, since he talks about both Gorrad and Setael.
Setael thinks Yvonne is scum trying to reduce the smokescreen effect of the whole town saying who they would have protected
Ether votes for Setael in a suitably understated yet dramatic fashion
lol. Mizzy, your posts are funnier now that I'm not shouting "SCUM!" at my computer every time I read them. "Q: How are we going to protect the doc? A: We need...a plan!"
Ether and JDodge argue about whether the weak doc is protected by more protection claims, or by stopping now
Ether asks Mizzy to vote JDodge
Gorrad gives JD the benefit of the doubt. Thinks Yvonne is the best lynch today, but sets up Porochaz for lynching tomorrow.
Ether wants to lynch Setael (I guess for her position on the weak doc claiming thing)
Mizzy votes Setael
Setael: huh? Also suggests that town should continue claiming who they would have protected.
Gorrad doesn't understand why Setael is suddenly a target (perhaps because he hasn't spent the last 36 hours reading the bloody thread)
Interesting that despite that last comment, Eldred's done nothing to show he understands why Setael is suddenly a target.

Anyway, in his next post, he attacks Porochez primarally, attacks Gorrad in a hesititant kind of way:
Eldarad wrote: Gorrad

OK, I don't think that nonchalent hammers are inherently scummy. But I do find your defence a bit odd.
If you genuinely didn't think there was a cop, you could have said "I don't think the scum will have given us a cop" and the town would have discussed it.
Yvonne pushed this very hard at the beginning of the day, but then just dropped it as the rest of the town weren't really following her. I don't really know how that happened but I bet the scum couldn't believe their luck.

...

I currently think these two (Gorrad & Porochaz) are scumbuddies who are trapped between bussing and distancing. I think a Porochaz lynch will be more informative than a Gorrad lynch. IMO, after the Day 1 hammer the scum will have been expecting Gorrad to die and so they'll have kept their distance today. Any scum-links that exist today will be between the other two scum.
Why don't you think that nonchalant hammers are inherently scummy, especally in a case like this?

And he's again pushing for the same thing Jordan was; trying to imply a link between Gorrad and Porochaz, but saying we should lynch Porochaz first (possibly hoping that once Porochaz was lynched and found to be town, he could avoid the Gorrad lynch, since again, just like Setael, he's basing it all on a link with Porochaz.)

vote:eldred


I'm pretty sure this is the way to go here.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #1104 (ISO) » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:11 pm

Post by eldarad »

Man, you made me go back and re-read...
Yos wrote:Pretty much neutral on both of the other scum, with very wishy-washy "Well, I like this, but I don't like this, but I liked this..." type comments.
I've just answered a similar question from scot. I'll wait for him to come back to me before answering either/both.
Yos wrote:When Eldred comes in and comments on everyone, he says very little about Setael even though he commented on almost everyone else in the game , which is interesting.
eldarad wrote:OK, big analysis post. I've basically read the whole thread from start to finish and made note of anything noteworthy.
If something wasn't noteworthy, it wasn't noted. If Setael didn't say anything noteworthy then I didn't note it.
I never thought that a byproduct of that method is that it identifies people who have failed to say anything noteworthy during the game. It's definitely worth going back to see who else doesn't appear often in my notes.
Yos wrote:1. He makes a point of specifically blaiming Skitzer for his own lynch, presumably absolving everyone else (especally Gorrad) from responsibility for it.
I like playing with Skitzer, but he
is
very lynchable. And directly contradicting yourself isn't that clever, so yeah, Skitzer has himself to blame.
Mizzy spent quite a while denying her involvement in the lynch, and Lulubelle claimed to have attempted to unvote. So there were several people trying to distance themselves from the Skitzer lynch. As it happens, I'm not going to pursue people too hard over it.
Gorrad wrote:2. He avoids mentioning that when Skitzer was "promptly lynched", that it was Gorrad who came out of nowhere and hammered him after the cop claim. Seems a very interesting omision, like he's trying to perhaps trying gloss over Gorrad's role in the lynch.
Except that I mention it right at the start of my Day 2 analysis...
Yos wrote:I'll stop here for a second; he's already tried to undermine Yvonne's attack on Gorrad, and defended Gorrad on the grounds that he could understand why Gorrad would think there's not a cop and that other people thought the same thing, while not mentioning on the questionable nature of the speed-hammer before most other people had a chance to see and comment on the claim.
eldarad wrote:If you genuinely didn't think there was a cop, you could have said "I don't think the scum will have given us a cop" and the town would have discussed it.
Yvonne pushed this very hard at the beginning of the day, but then just dropped it as the rest of the town weren't really following her. I don't really know how that happened but I bet the scum couldn't believe their luck.
On the contrary, I think Yvonne was pretty townie in attacking the Gorrad hammer. It looks odd in my analysis post
because no-one else said anything about it
.
eldarad wrote:(
perhaps because he hasn't spent the last 36 hours reading the bloody thread
)
heh. This comment should be read in the context of
eldarad wrote:Last page is full of chat and, frankly, I'm just glad to have gotten to the end...
Seriously, this is the first and last time I replace into a game so far in.
But also:
Yos wrote:Interesting that despite that last comment, Eldred's done nothing to show he understands why Setael is suddenly a target.
eldarad wrote:Ether wants to lynch Setael (
I guess for her position on the weak doc claiming thing
)
Yos wrote:Why don't you think that nonchalant hammers are inherently scummy, especally in a case like this?
Because whenever I hammer, I always do it nonchalently...
Yos wrote:And he's again pushing for the same thing Jordan was; trying to imply a link between Gorrad and Porochaz, but saying we should lynch Porochaz first (possibly hoping that once Porochaz was lynched and found to be town, he could avoid the Gorrad lynch, since again, just like Setael, he's basing it all on a link with Porochaz.)
Yeah, and I'm still pushing it today:
eldarad wrote:Here's where I am right now.
In isolation, I'd say Yos/Lulu is our third scum due to the half-claim that we've discussed for the past 2 Days. I also see a consistent chain of scumminess through Dragon Princess-Lulubelle that Yosarian has inherited and has sought to distance himself from.

However, I see a Setael & Porochaz scum-pairing as pretty likely. I'm also happier with the thought of a Gorrad/Setael/Porochaz scum group than a Gorrad/Setael/Yosarian scum group (which is plausible, but something doesn't quite fit right)
So overall, I'm leaning towards a Porochaz lynch as our best bet for nailing the last scum today.
So?
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Post Post #1105 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:27 am

Post by Ether »

I am satisfied with the current span of Patrick's sig-debt. Somebody hammer.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
LOUDER
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Post Post #1106 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:43 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

eldarad wrote:
Yos wrote:1. He makes a point of specifically blaiming Skitzer for his own lynch, presumably absolving everyone else (especally Gorrad) from responsibility for it.
I like playing with Skitzer, but he
is
very lynchable. And directly contradicting yourself isn't that clever, so yeah, Skitzer has himself to blame.
Mizzy spent quite a while denying her involvement in the lynch, and Lulubelle claimed to have attempted to unvote. So there were several people trying to distance themselves from the Skitzer lynch. As it happens, I'm not going to pursue people too hard over it.
Gorrad wrote:2. He avoids mentioning that when Skitzer was "promptly lynched", that it was Gorrad who came out of nowhere and hammered him after the cop claim. Seems a very interesting omision, like he's trying to perhaps trying gloss over Gorrad's role in the lynch.
Except that I mention it right at the start of my Day 2 analysis...
My point is that this part of your page 1 analyes seems worded in such a way as to make Gorrad look as good as possible here.
eldred wrote:*lots of talk about scot lurking and Lulu lurking.*
Skitzer makes a slip that costs him his life.
Porochaz reappears, and again fabricates quotes, this time to attack Lulu.
*Skitzer claims cop and is promptly lynched*
It sounds like you're trying to sum it up in a way that makes Gorrad look better, and if that's how you read the end of the day, I'm a bit confused why you thought more attention should be paid to the hammer.



Yos wrote:I'll stop here for a second; he's already tried to undermine Yvonne's attack on Gorrad, and defended Gorrad on the grounds that he could understand why Gorrad would think there's not a cop and that other people thought the same thing, while not mentioning on the questionable nature of the speed-hammer before most other people had a chance to see and comment on the claim.
On the contrary, I think Yvonne was pretty townie in attacking the Gorrad hammer. It looks odd in my analysis post
because no-one else said anything about it
.
The part I'm speaking of where you tried to undermine Yvonne's attack againt Gorrad was here:
eldred wrote: Yvonne attacks Gorrad for hammering (again). Also accuses him of tunnel-vision on Day 1 (despite saying repeatedly that she thought Gorrad was genuinely scumhunting on Day 1.)
And in the early part of your day 2 analysis, you don't mention that you agree with the attack on him; you kind of allude to it later, but your defense of Gorrad in this post seemed more prominent then your vauge agreement with attacks on him.

eldarad wrote:
Yos wrote:And he's again pushing for the same thing Jordan was; trying to imply a link between Gorrad and Porochaz, but saying we should lynch Porochaz first (possibly hoping that once Porochaz was lynched and found to be town, he could avoid the Gorrad lynch, since again, just like Setael, he's basing it all on a link with Porochaz.)
Yeah, and I'm still pushing it today:
eldarad wrote:Here's where I am right now.
In isolation, I'd say Yos/Lulu is our third scum due to the half-claim that we've discussed for the past 2 Days. I also see a consistent chain of scumminess through Dragon Princess-Lulubelle that Yosarian has inherited and has sought to distance himself from.

However, I see a Setael & Porochaz scum-pairing as pretty likely. I'm also happier with the thought of a Gorrad/Setael/Porochaz scum group than a Gorrad/Setael/Yosarian scum group (which is plausible, but something doesn't quite fit right)
So overall, I'm leaning towards a Porochaz lynch as our best bet for nailing the last scum today.
So?
It's relevent, because I think Porochaz is pro-town, because if you were scum you could gain by implying a connection there, and because that's a very similar tack to the one Setael was taking at the same time.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #1107 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:13 am

Post by Patrick »

Votecount

eldarad (3) -- Ether, scotmany12, Yosarian2

Not voting: eldarad, Porochaz, YvonneSeer
6 alive, 4 to lynch

Note: I'm without home access at the moment, and until it's sorted out, I can only get on once a day max.
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
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Post Post #1108 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:40 am

Post by eldarad »

I hope everyone is having a "Good" Friday :D
YoS wrote:My point is that this part of your page 1 analyes seems worded in such a way as to make Gorrad look as good as possible here.
I don't really understand why you're reading one part of my post in isolation and then accusing me of avoiding mentioning things, when all that's happened is that I mentioned it elsewhere.
Yos wrote:It sounds like you're trying to sum it up in a way that makes Gorrad look better, and if that's how you read the end of the day, I'm a bit confused why you thought more attention should be paid to the hammer.
You're doing it again. I analysed what was said when the town discussed it the next day.
Yos wrote:
eldarad wrote:Yvonne attacks Gorrad for hammering (again). Also accuses him of tunnel-vision on Day 1 (despite saying repeatedly that she thought Gorrad was genuinely scumhunting on Day 1.)
And in the early part of your day 2 analysis, you don't mention that you agree with the attack on him; you kind of allude to it later, but your defense of Gorrad in this post seemed more prominent then your vauge agreement with attacks on him.
What is wrong with this? It's a factual statement. Yvonne did say on Day 1 that she thought Gorrad was genuinely scumhunting. Then, on Day 2 she said that Gorrad was tunnel-visioned. She never explained why she had changed her mind.
Or do you disagree?
eldarad wrote:
Gorrad


OK, I don't think that nonchalent hammers are inherently scummy. But I do find your defence a bit odd.
If you genuinely didn't think there was a cop, you could have said "I don't think the scum will have given us a cop" and the town would have discussed it.
Yvonne pushed this very hard at the beginning of the day, but then just dropped it as the rest of the town weren't really following her. I don't really know how that happened but I bet the scum couldn't believe their luck.

I almost fell off my chair when you were angling to hammer Porochaz recently.
I don't see how this is "alluding" to anything. I'm pretty explicit in my opinion here.
Also:
eldarad wrote:Gorrad votes Porochaz, but is cruelly denied the chance to quick-lynch someone twice in the game (
which would be just awesomely title-worthy
)
Here, I "allude" to the fact that I think Gorrad quick-lynched Skitzer.
Yos wrote:It's relevent, because I think Porochaz is pro-town, because if you were scum you could gain by implying a connection there, and because that's a very similar tack to the one Setael was taking at the same time.
As I said to Ether before, I disagree. I think Porochaz is likely scum.
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Post Post #1109 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:30 am

Post by scotmany12 »

So what happened to chaz and YS? One of them need to hammer
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Post Post #1110 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:02 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

eldarad wrote:I hope everyone is having a "Good" Friday :D
YoS wrote:My point is that this part of your page 1 analyes seems worded in such a way as to make Gorrad look as good as possible here.
I don't really understand why you're reading one part of my post in isolation and then accusing me of avoiding mentioning things, when all that's happened is that I mentioned it elsewhere.
It's not that you avoided mentioning it per se, it's that you talked about the hammer in such a way that it sounds like you were trying to absolve Gorrad of all responsibiltiy. Yes, you mentioned that Gorrad hammer when analyzying day 2, but you pretty much had to in order to discribe what happened that day.
What is wrong with this? It's a factual statement. Yvonne did say on Day 1 that she thought Gorrad was genuinely scumhunting. Then, on Day 2 she said that Gorrad was tunnel-visioned. She never explained why she had changed her mind.
Or do you disagree?
(shrug) You defended scum, dude. Even if you defended him with valid points, it's still going to be a strike against you, that's just how it is.

Yos wrote:It's relevent, because I think Porochaz is pro-town, because if you were scum you could gain by implying a connection there, and because that's a very similar tack to the one Setael was taking at the same time.
As I said to Ether before, I disagree. I think Porochaz is likely scum.
[/quote]

Ok. Could you explain why? Specifically, could you explain why you disagree with my assesment of the Setael/Porochez interactions day 2?
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #1111 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:43 am

Post by eldarad »

sctomany wrote:So what happened to chaz and YS? One of them need to hammer
Why don't you indulge me and respond to post 1102? I asked you a couple of questions, but is there anything you disagree with or want to comment on?
Why do you think there is nothing else to discuss?
Yos wrote:It's not that you avoided mentioning it per se, it's that you talked about the hammer in such a way that it sounds like you were trying to absolve Gorrad of all responsibiltiy. Yes, you mentioned that Gorrad hammer when analyzying day 2, but you pretty much had to in order to discribe what happened that day.
Well, exactly. That was the whole point of my first post - I made notes as I read the thread, and posted them. So if something wasn't discussed it didn't appear in my notes.
Rather obviously, there was no discussion about the hammer when it happened because after the hammer the thread was locked.
eldarad wrote:(shrug) You defended scum, dude. Even if you defended him with valid points, it's still going to be a strike against you, that's just how it is.
Indeed.
But all I can do is call things as I see them. Sometimes townies look scummy (like Mizzy before she claimed) and sometimes scum look townie. At least I'm prepared to make those calls.
Yos wrote:Could you explain why? Specifically, could you explain why you disagree with my assesment of the Setael/Porochez interactions day 2?
The short answer is that I think Gorrad and Porochaz are both scum. I think Porochaz's vote for Setael was odd, for one thing.
I'll aim to answer that question in more detail later this weekend.
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Post Post #1112 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:02 pm

Post by scotmany12 »

If I felt like I had to respond to anything I would have. The only question you asked me was you attempting to divert attention onto me. How come you have a problem with me saying someone has to hammer but not with ether saying it?
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Post Post #1113 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:28 pm

Post by Porochaz »

sorry I was waiting for this conversation to end before hammering this time...
vote eldarad
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
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Post Post #1114 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:35 pm

Post by Patrick »

Final Votecount

eldarad (4) -- Ether, scotmany12, Yosarian2, Porochaz

Not voting: eldarad, YvonneSeer
6 alive, 4 to lynch.
----------------------------------------

It doesn’t take long for four of you to decide that lynching eldarad will most likely end the game. Eldarad had subbed into the game when his buddy Jordan had been called home unexpectedly, but still Jordan’s frequent naps during the game caused you all to distrust his role. Eldarad is forced to turn over his card, which reveals that he was anything but an innocent townsperson. With the mafia wiped out and the game over, you all head off to the PYP2 kitchen of doom, where you are all free to stuff your faces and rant/celebrate about the game.

eldarad - Mafia Goon - lynched day 4


Town wins!
Primpod 11:13 pm
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Post Post #1115 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:37 pm

Post by Patrick »

Nightactions


Night 1
Mafia kills Bookitty (failed due to protection)
Mizzy (Masoniser) attempts to recruit Ether (success)
JDodge (Weak Doctor) protects Bookitty

Night 2
Mafia kills Bookitty
Masons natter about meaningless and trivial things
JDodge (Weak Doctor) protects Setael (kills JDodge)

Night 3
Mafia kills Mizzy
Masons natter about meaningless and trivial things
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
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Post Post #1116 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:41 pm

Post by Ether »

SCIENCE.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
LOUDER
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Post Post #1117 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:48 pm

Post by Patrick »

I thought this was a decent game, but the scum just tied themselves together far too much. As soon as one fell, the other two followed like skittles. Day 2 was critical, and for a while I thought Porochaz was going to be lynched, which would have been interesting. I assumed JDodge would weak doc Gorrad that night and die, putting the town in lylo. Gorrad and Setael would have gone down, but I wondered if maybe eldarad would have been able to get one more townie lynched for the mafia win. When Gorrad was lynched instead of Porochaz, it was always going to be a struggle for scum.

Comments on the role choices and balance of the game would be appreciated, since I'm going to be running a PYP3, as an 18 player game. I reviewed this game with several people, so I'd get different opinions of the balance, and if those people disagreed with each other, I thought the setup would work. With hindsight, I should have found something instead of the one shot vig role for scum, which people didn't really consider, and probably made the normal doctor unable to self protect at all. At the time, I felt weak doctor was stronger as a role. I was surprised by how everyone seemed to gloss over giving the rolecop to scum, which struck me as one of the weaker roles, but having spoken to various people, it seems that's more of a quirk of mine. To be honest, I was also surprised how quickly the town chose the mafia poweroles. I hadn't expected a long day 0 but I'd expected it to go on longer than that.

I'd like to thank everyone who played in this game, especially people who replaced into a pretty long reread. I hope people enjoyed it and maybe some of you will play in the next one.
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i would love to finally touch your face
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Post Post #1118 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:57 pm

Post by Ether »

I, too, am surprised by how little distancing there was, and by the role assignments--why weakdoc/masonizer/cop? More importantly, how did you lab-rat scumbags like your encryption?

In retrospect, my early adamance on Bookitty looks idiotic. Sorry 'bout that. (With Mizzy, eh, I wish I'd been more polite and open-minded, but I still don't think the case itself was bad. Thanks for being a power role, though.)

I like how Porochaz hammered all three scum three days in a row.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
LOUDER
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Post Post #1119 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:58 pm

Post by Gorrad »

Very good game. I think encryptor actually did us in. We made a very nice and neat plan that completely crumbled as soon as Porochaz wasn't lynched.
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Post Post #1120 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:19 pm

Post by Setael »

Fun game. The encryption actually ended up hurting us. When JDodge said he planned to protect me (ironically because he thought I was town and wasn't looking to suicide) we day talked about what we'd do and it was decided that we would not no kill to try to WIFOM the town - we'd still kill and just let me die the following day. After that was decided, I didn't have any motivation to distance from gorrad and just aimed at getting Porochaz lynched so we'd have a chance. Obviously, I was far too obvious and it backfired. If we hadn't been able to day talk, I think it would've laid differently, especially since at one point JDodge switched and said he'd protect gorrad that night.

It also actually made it tougher when JDodge started the day making it so obvious he was the doc and protected Bookitty. We were able to discuss it and concoct a plan right away but then he continued to be so obvious and several townies were picking up on it (while others either just weren't or were playing dumb) that it was just aggravating to see good plans go to waste. Ended up being kind of disheartening.

eldarad did a really good job with what he was given. We were in REALLY bad shape when he replaced in.
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Post Post #1121 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:32 pm

Post by Ether »

Yeah, JDodge was silly.

I'm definitely interested in seeing scum daytalking in some more games; unfortunately, it'd be kind of bad form for me to start a discussion thread right now, as I'm currently modding such a game.

Patrick's sig-debt to me will last until the end of Sunday, May 18th. His signature and avatar will both then presumably go to Glork. He might or might not be free after that.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
LOUDER
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Post Post #1122 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:33 pm

Post by Ether »

Also, I'm interested in reading any and all mafia transcripts.
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Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
LOUDER
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Post Post #1123 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:48 pm

Post by Mizzy »

I am so glad I didn't trust Ether and so masonised her. Best use of the skill in my eyes.

Skitzer, I'm sorry I got you killed...mostly.

I enjoyed the game a lot, thanks everyone for playing and thank you, Patrick, for modding!

P.S. Porochaz needs a title for his triple-play-hammer.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."

Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
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Post Post #1124 (ISO) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:46 pm

Post by scotmany12 »

I would really like to hear from lulu just to see what she was thinking during her whole interaction with jd.

Good game all. I enjoyed this game quite a lot.
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