Well, that's literally why I tried to interract with Ofrhz in the first place. I CAN'T place any connection to anyone besides him doing some "why do you think this?" Post.In post 1099, DVa wrote:Alright, well if you want to case Not_Mafia based on ofhrz's interactions, I'm listening.
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In post 237, ofrhz wrote:....I feel like this is slightly towny for N_M tbh
pedit: He's nullscum, and I don't have any stronger scumreads, so yes, I'm fine with being on his wagon.In post 234, ofrhz wrote:
WatIn post 204, tictac wrote:VOTE: Not Mafia
Honestly, DVa arguing 4 this is the only reason, I didn't replace out already.
If she does, I'm following.
I'd prefer A50 policy actually, but this has a wagon already.
You gave no indication of any frustration with NM's play before thisIn post 239, ofrhz wrote:
The voteIn post 238, Auro wrote:
How? The attack at DVa, or his tictac vote? O.oIn post 237, ofrhz wrote:I feel like this is slightly towny for N_M tbh
We both read DVa's AtE on the previous page, and ended up with the conclusion that she's probably town because of it. So the timing of N_M moving his vote off of DVa and onto a different wagon is a reasonable thought process to have and is therefore towny imoIn post 859, ofrhz wrote:
I'm actually not a fan of Clemency, but I also think it's stupid to lynch an un-CC'd protective claim todayIn post 814, Sashaddin wrote:Clemency has the higher chance of being scum imo. I think she's dodging a lot and didn't go in depth. I also doubt his claim of being a bodyguard.
Not_Mafia would be second. I got a feeling for this but I won't say why now.
Im soulreading N_M as town
One little thing is that ofhrz constantly switches between N_M, NM, and Not_mafiaIn post 861, ofrhz wrote:
If you're townreading tictac for drawing a weak associative including you that wasn't even pushed and was quickly dropped afterwards, that's weaksauce nglIn post 826, DVa wrote:Like, Carmen didn't give us much, and Tictac tiltreplaced out, but I still don't think Tictac tries to come at me out of the gate the way she did as scum.
I'm still not sure I buy the tilt, considering tictac went from playing along with NM's RVS vote to someone who was frustrated enough with N_M's play to leave the game without any trajectory
She consistently argued for NM town, both giving a reason and "soulreading"
She never voted N_M
Is this how ofhrz treats her scumbuddy?
Did ofhrz open wolf this game?- Elsa Jay
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In post 441, ofrhz wrote:BEF can you explain your scumreads some more? I don’t see how Elsa’s or clemency’s reactions to your wagon were scummyIn post 496, ofrhz wrote:This has been fun but work calls
Elsa and Clem’s posts have been really town
I’m pretty sure BEF is scum flailing - I just finished playing with him as scumpartners and he likes to set up fake claims ahead of time and is pretty quick at coming up with hoaxes when he is caught
De facto intent but I’d like for everyone to check in first
Pedit: what the fuckIn post 654, ofrhz wrote:I don’t think elsa’s daycop cc was serious. I’m kind of wondering why she’s alive thoIn post 767, ofrhz wrote:
650 was pretty bad considering there was just someone who "claimed something improbable, got caught" and was town. Like, if scum knew that Elsa was fakeclaiming yesterday, they would also conceivably keep her alive as an easy mislynch, which was basically my thought hereIn post 669, Carmen wrote:In post 654, ofrhz wrote:I don’t think elsa’s daycop cc was serious. I’m kind of wondering why she’s alive thoIn post 658, ofrhz wrote: read the rest of her postsExplain this progression?
Sasha then quoted something grossly out of context to try to make his point
There may also have been some unabashed sheeping involved in my vote on Sasha
so the problem here of course is that ofhrz *was open wolfing*In post 772, ofrhz wrote:
I didn't understand this. You were calling for BEF to be hammered before Elsa even cc'd as daycop. How was he stringing you along? Can you explain it to me like I'm a childIn post 655, Clemency wrote:trust me i'm having a complex internal dilemma on whether elsa underestimated the power of stupidity like me or whether he was stringing me along
i wanna at least see this wagon through
Spoiler:
there's no question
so the question isn't did ofhrz open wolf, it's *how does ofhrz open wolf, when she is open wolfing*
was she open wolfing with hard defenses of N_M
or with tinfoil theories about Elsa?- Not_Mafia
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WhiteknightingIn post 1101, DVa wrote:In post 237, ofrhz wrote:....I feel like this is slightly towny for N_M tbh
pedit: He's nullscum, and I don't have any stronger scumreads, so yes, I'm fine with being on his wagon.In post 234, ofrhz wrote:
WatIn post 204, tictac wrote:VOTE: Not Mafia
Honestly, DVa arguing 4 this is the only reason, I didn't replace out already.
If she does, I'm following.
I'd prefer A50 policy actually, but this has a wagon already.
You gave no indication of any frustration with NM's play before thisIn post 239, ofrhz wrote:
The voteIn post 238, Auro wrote:
How? The attack at DVa, or his tictac vote? O.oIn post 237, ofrhz wrote:I feel like this is slightly towny for N_M tbh
We both read DVa's AtE on the previous page, and ended up with the conclusion that she's probably town because of it. So the timing of N_M moving his vote off of DVa and onto a different wagon is a reasonable thought process to have and is therefore towny imoIn post 859, ofrhz wrote:
I'm actually not a fan of Clemency, but I also think it's stupid to lynch an un-CC'd protective claim todayIn post 814, Sashaddin wrote:Clemency has the higher chance of being scum imo. I think she's dodging a lot and didn't go in depth. I also doubt his claim of being a bodyguard.
Not_Mafia would be second. I got a feeling for this but I won't say why now.
Im soulreading N_M as town
One little thing is that ofhrz constantly switches between N_M, NM, and Not_mafiaIn post 861, ofrhz wrote:
If you're townreading tictac for drawing a weak associative including you that wasn't even pushed and was quickly dropped afterwards, that's weaksauce nglIn post 826, DVa wrote:Like, Carmen didn't give us much, and Tictac tiltreplaced out, but I still don't think Tictac tries to come at me out of the gate the way she did as scum.
I'm still not sure I buy the tilt, considering tictac went from playing along with NM's RVS vote to someone who was frustrated enough with N_M's play to leave the game without any trajectory
She consistently argued for NM town, both giving a reason and "soulreading"
She never voted N_M
Is this how ofhrz treats her scumbuddy?
Did ofhrz open wolf this game?Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.- Not_Mafia
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DVa's post over the last 24 hours have actually been good #notbrownosing #iswearAlso, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.- DVa
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In either scenario
Town had a strong investigative (a gunsmith that knows there's no scum doctor or traitor), with one negative utility (one confirmable vig and one unconfirmable vig/basically gunsmith miller), and a weak protective
Scum had an informed goon, and considering the value of the town's informed status, it probably was some good information that might *have increased the desire for fakeclaims* -- but we don't know this, and it is plausible that Elsa simply did random bullshit he always does that happened to make him look really shady after ofhrz's flip + a50's flip
The risk that N_M wins as scum here after being a douche to me the entire game is really holding me back, but I am trying my very best to be objective.
but what do we got:
on the prospect of N_M scum
N_M open wolfed as he always does
N_M sometimes changed his reads, which he's capable of doing as scum
N_M didn't do some of the memey bullshit he does as town
but, on the prospect of N_M town
N_M actually cased someone which is kinda uncommon for him as scum
N_M changed his reads *more frequently* than he does as scum
N_M seems a bit more engaged than he usually does as scum in recent months
with the thought I am trying not to focus on in interests of winning the game
N_M basically shittunneled people for the entire game which makes it hard to feel like he deserves to win, but that doesn't mean *we deserve to lose if he is town*
VS
on the prospect of elsa scum,
ofhrz's interactions with Elsa feel a little bit more like S+S to me
Elsa never really questioned my assertion that the informed nature of the scum was that they knew town had a gunsmith, instead focusing on whether his crumb wouldn't have been a guilty to a gunsmith (maybe tmi slip?)
The assertion he didn't know cop was a guilty to gunsmith is still hard to buy, although plausible since he has never played with a gunsmith
His top priority in exiting RVS was creating a crumb that would have happened to be a response to our gunsmith investigative, which would match the strategy of scum with an informed role
Elsa hard pocketed A50 after Clem had revealed his role as a weak protective and A50 basically confirmed he was real investigative by announcing his guilty on ofhrz
but, on the prospect of Elsa as town
Elsa lynched Carmen through my threat of a vig shot (as implausible as it was at that point, it's pretty likely he didn't believe me)
Elsa seemed more protown some of the time, but also risked lynching Carmen without a claim just because A50 was pressuring him to
Elsa's interactions with ofhrz's seems a little bit outside his normal play as scum
This is what Elsa claimed after A50 basically revealed he was a gunsmith with a guilty on ofhrz:
yikesIn post 758, Elsa Jay wrote:What makes you think I didnt put my real claim in my fake claim, Almost?
going to give you both some time to respond to these two scenarios and any new accusations I've mentioned- DVa
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but maybe the quicklynch on Carmen was a reaction to A50's guilty on ofhrz?In post 1106, DVa wrote:Elsa lynched Carmen through my threat of a vig shot (as implausible as it was at that point, it's pretty likely he didn't believe me)
fuck I'm seeing a lot of Elsa scum here- Sashaddin
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None taken, of courseIn post 1098, Elsa Jay wrote:Sashaddin was just weird to me because he's a newb. No offense, of course.- Sashaddin
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I think the real story is in bold. You did a good job analyzing this.In post 1106, DVa wrote:In either scenario
Town had a strong investigative (a gunsmith that knows there's no scum doctor or traitor), with one negative utility (one confirmable vig and one unconfirmable vig/basically gunsmith miller), and a weak protective
Scum had an informed goon, and considering the value of the town's informed status,it probably was some good information that might *have increased the desire for fakeclaims*-- but we don't know this, and it is plausible that Elsa simply did random bullshit he always does that happened to make him look really shady after ofhrz's flip + a50's flip
The risk that N_M wins as scum here after being a douche to me the entire game is really holding me back, but I am trying my very best to be objective.
but what do we got:
on the prospect of N_M scum
N_M open wolfed as he always does
N_M sometimes changed his reads, which he's capable of doing as scum
N_M didn't do some of the memey bullshit he does as town
but, on the prospect of N_M town
N_M actually cased someone which is kinda uncommon for him as scum
N_M changed his reads *more frequently* than he does as scum
N_M seems a bit more engaged than he usually does as scum in recent months
with the thought I am trying not to focus on in interests of winning the game
N_M basically shittunneled people for the entire game which makes it hard to feel like he deserves to win, but that doesn't mean *we deserve to lose if he is town*
VS
on the prospect of elsa scum,
ofhrz's interactions with Elsa feel a little bit more like S+S to me
Elsa never really questioned my assertion that the informed nature of the scum was that they knew town had a gunsmith, instead focusing on whether his crumb wouldn't have been a guilty to a gunsmith (maybe tmi slip?)
The assertion he didn't know cop was a guilty to gunsmith is still hard to buy, although plausible since he has never played with a gunsmith
His top priority in exiting RVS was creating a crumb that would have happened to be a response to our gunsmith investigative, which would match the strategy of scum with an informed role
Elsa hard pocketed A50 after Clem had revealed his role as a weak protective and A50 basically confirmed he was real investigative by announcing his guilty on ofhrz
but, on the prospect of Elsa as town
Elsa lynched Carmen through my threat of a vig shot (as implausible as it was at that point, it's pretty likely he didn't believe me)
Elsa seemed more protown some of the time, but also risked lynching Carmen without a claim just because A50 was pressuring him to
Elsa's interactions with ofhrz's seems a little bit outside his normal play as scum
This is what Elsa claimed after A50 basically revealed he was a gunsmith with a guilty on ofhrz:
yikesIn post 758, Elsa Jay wrote:What makes you think I didnt put my real claim in my fake claim, Almost?
going to give you both some time to respond to these two scenarios and any new accusations I've mentioned
Elsa leans scum a lot more than Not_Mafia to me right now. I'm not sure of either, but Elsa appears more and more scummy as we dig, while NM's style leaves my opinion unchanged.
UNVOTE: Elsa Jay
so I can sleep on it, in case.- Sashaddin
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I agree.In post 1105, Not_Mafia wrote:DVa's post over the last 24 hours have actually been good #notbrownosing #iswear- Elsa Jay
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?In post 1107, DVa wrote:
but maybe the quicklynch on Carmen was a reaction to A50's guilty on ofhrz?In post 1106, DVa wrote:Elsa lynched Carmen through my threat of a vig shot (as implausible as it was at that point, it's pretty likely he didn't believe me)
fuck I'm seeing a lot of Elsa scum here
I didn't even pay attention or read the hypo claims because I waa gonna deal with them later, but the Clem claimed and I forgot all of them but mine. Do you remember which one Almost put his in?- Not_Mafia
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Stop saying wolf, there are no wolves in this gameAlso, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.- Sashaddin
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Well, Elsa, I don't know what to say here. I really like you as a person and as a player. I would like us to be friends after this game if possible, but ultimately I have to vote for the person I think is more suspicious. Is there any part of my case that feels unfair? Too tinfoily? Is there some knife that can cut a gordian knot here?- DVa
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After 744, I think it's highly probable the scum team knew A50 was the real gunsmith. That was A50's hypoclaim post.
In post 744, Almost50 wrote:as a Gunsmith, ofrhz HAS a gun
This means that your cop claim *after* and in response to the hypoclaim ordering seems really suspect. You had already pocketed A50 so your insistence on Clem being on A50 also seemed like an endgame ploy. Like I know you two were friends but you didn't question his soft at all?
I don't know how to reconcile some of your choices from a town POV.- DVa
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yikesIn post 818, Elsa Jay wrote:Decided to do a quick activity check, and research points to scum apathy as a possibility here.
everything after the hypoclaim is just yikes
I don't know how to not lynch you here Elsa- Not_Mafia
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HammerAlso, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.- Elsa Jay
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^
Just compare me to that and follow your gut, I guess.
Still dont really understand how my VC hypoclaim is the weird thing setting you off when I didn't even know how gunsmith worked. So I hypoclaimed a role that I picked for shits and giggles for a role I just thought only found mafia and vigilantes. I really dont get that logic.- DVa
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also this is kinda a funny sentenceIn post 1120, Elsa Jay wrote:I hypoclaimed a role that I picked for shits and giggles for a role I just thought only found mafia and vigilantes- Elsa Jay
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Well this is mostly what I got then. It's not much, since I'm never the best with explaining myself, so here.
this here is my last experience in a normal 10p. There were 3 TPR. I fucking sucked as one of them. My vague memory said only 3 non-VT townies would be in this game. When Clem claimed, I also stopped bullshitting with my VC claim since I thought all the TPR was revealed, and I wanted Almost alive because I trust his judgement with most things.
The fact he turned out to be a Gunsmith was just weird fate. I ignored your vigilante thing since I thought only 3 people could be TPR, but i guess we get up to 4 in a 10p. Also like I said earlier, I threw away any other hypo claims because they made no sense in my mind with my set rule set for 10p. I didn't think to go back and read those hypo claims when Almost claimed so I didnt even know he crumbed being gunsmith.
Do I fake claim as town more often then not? Probably more then I should, yes. My first game with Almost I claimed Vigilante to not get hung and draw the NK that night while gambitting on there not being a real vig in the semi-open setup. It's a bad habit but it's fun.
I've done exactly what i'd do here as scum and town. That's the honest truth. Any mistake I make as scum I'd make as town and vice versa. Any fuck ups and not remembering events is what I also do as either alignment. It's how I win my scum games. I play the same way and ignore my role PM.
All I can tell you is I'm trying my best for town, despite me naturally being leaned towards a scummy style. I don't want to lose town another game because I got myself mislynched.- Not_Mafia
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Please treat this game with the seriousness it deservesIn post 1120, Elsa Jay wrote:So I hypoclaimed a role that I picked for shits and giggles for a role I just thought only found mafia and vigilantes.Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value. - Not_Mafia
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