ART is the "Avatar Removal Theory" put forth by LL as a possible sign that Blopp bounced due to being newbscum. He also had other reasons. This was a major point of contention D1, and a reason some people were on LL's (the person you voted for) wagon. It was brought up multiple times by multiple players and was referred to as ART multiple times by me. Have you read this game at all? Why did you replace into a game you seemingly don't care to understand?
In post 1102, Looker wrote:[*]Bearing on nothing? How can my response to someone not have any bearing on the topic? These approaches are confusing me
I'm sure a lot confuses you. 1075 was simply rehashing your argument with Jam. It made no mention of my input on the debate, or most importantly, my wagon going to E-1 and my subsequent claim, and my vote and case for scum!BM. Those are some glaring omissions. But now that you're here and will surely answer in a timely manner: What do you think of BM's theory and how he tested it? Do you believe and agree with his reasoning for it? Do you think my opposing theory for his actions has merit or no?
In post 1102, Looker wrote:[*]It made no sense to flip Raya yesterday when my suspects were Porkens and JamSV.
Why did you vote LL? 474 doesn't give a lot. Why did Raya go from 10% to 16% to 22%? You provide no explanation, offer no case or reasoning, and have not asked Raya any questions nor referred to her posts at any point this game. Again, just having numerical rankings of who you want executed without any reasoning is worthless. If you're so sure Jam is scum why did you switch your vote?
I'm certain you don't actually need me to explain this, but Clark hasn't come back to me yet, so I'll bite.
Your vote on me appears to be because you're skeptical of my suspicion on you. Certainly, the crux of it seems to be about my response to you on Day 2, which is slightly anti-climactic after your comprehensive ISO analysis of me earlier. The reality is that I haven't been that suspicious of you at all (not sure if that's a good or bad thing) and you ended up in my possible-lynchbloc by default because of POE (ruled out who I thought were masons, and Looker largely as a policy play). I've been perfectly candid about that throughout.
Have I misunderstood your rationale here?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:05 am
by ClarkBar
In post 1095, Battle Mage wrote:I won't have time to respond to everything - I'll make the effort here although I'm not sure it will achieve much as you've gone full tunnel on me.
I'm not tunneling on you. I think you're scum for the reasons I've explained. I am also looking very hard at Looker, I am anxiously awaiting the return of Raya, I'm not 100% on Jam or 72o but I'm also not at all interested in their execution today.
In post 1070, Battle Mage wrote:Why you: Well there were 3 options really. Probably you and TTJT would have been my top scumreads ahead of 72o
You pretty much town-read me all D1 and then all of a sudden I'm in your top two scum candidates?
I basically town read everyone Day 1 apart from my 2 scumreads.
That's cool, but if your read switches from a town-read to a scum-read I think it's nice to say why. Maybe give the player in question something to work with? Have a dialogue?
In post 1095, Battle Mage wrote:As above, if I was scum and thought you were a PR, why would I want you to claim? ESPECIALLY if I thought you were a cop, because in claiming, you'd be guaranteed to be protected at night by a doctor if there is one.
I don't want to get into a WIFOM quagmire. Why would town!you want me to claim? I think my argument for your scum motivation is stronger and simpler than yours.
In post 1095, Battle Mage wrote:What you refer to as a "bizarre and confusing" POE gambit, is a staple of my game nowadays, and it can be very effective. I can't refer to ongoing games, but there is nothing to stop you reading.
Would you be willing to point me to a completed game where this gambit was effectively used? I find it difficult to believe that pushing a wagon on a player to see what kind of claim they make is a tried and true winning method. The risks are enormous. The most obvious of which is what happened here, which is you force an actual PR to claim. What if scum!me made a VT claim? Then you'd be giving town-cred to scum. Your gambit also relies on there being 2 masons, and there is only a 22% (see Looker, percentages can mean something!) chance of that being the case in this game. It also relies on your suspicion of who those masons might be to be correct. And in turn it relies on them to somehow know to "signal" to you that a fake claim had been made without outing themselves as PR's. All the while leaving open the possibility of a quick hammer or an "oopsie-poopsie" hammer on a potential town slot.
Unless I'm fundamentally missing something I cannot see the risk/reward ratio of your gambit to be in town's favor. I do see what the goal of the gambit is, I just can't see that goal justifying the myriad of risks and potential misfires.
In post 1095, Battle Mage wrote:Please do me the courtesy of actually giving this some thought and reading and responding to my points above.
I'm giving it thought, relax. I didn't respond to everything due to time purposes/I feel I already addressed it. But if there is something glaring you want me to discuss I'm happy to do so.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:20 am
by ClarkBar
Am I the crazy one here? I'm not trying to be myopic, I simply have a very hard time believing that town!BM would use such a reckless gambit. Maybe in a micro or something for the lolz, but not as an SE in a newbie game.
I asked this question to Looker, who is no doubt poring over the whole game in order to formulate a well-crafted and meaningful response , but I would like everybody to answer it:
In post 1105, ClarkBar wrote:But now that you're here and will surely answer in a timely manner: What do you think of BM's theory and how he tested it? Do you believe and agree with his reasoning for it? Do you think my opposing theory for his actions has merit or no?
Also, I saw the acronym in several posts; it just wasn't spelled out. And, yeah, I've skimmed a couple of the pages; I focused more on votecounts.
I actually replaced in to win, despite belligerence and insults. These are some awkward scumhunting tools. I think that might explain why your replace rate is so high.
And Raya hasn't been here. You can't really do anything with 0 reaction.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:05 pm
by ClarkBar
Well, I guess that's just Looker for you!
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:18 pm
by ClarkBar
I didn't say you were rude necessarily, but I do think your reaction to Jam has been a little more hostile than the line of his questioning should provoke.
I don't think it's fair to characterize my scumhunting tools as being rooted in belligerence and insults. I am getting frustrated with you not answering basic questions or apparently reading this game with any close attention.
Yes, Raya hasn't been here. Is that why you voted her instead of your top scum-read? Because she's not here?
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:35 pm
by TheThirteenthJT
So I'm not defending BM here because it does look bad. Is his position plausible? Yes. I was actually thinking scum or pr for Clark. The way BM was pushing made me think he was breadcrumbing a PR and wanted to test out Clark's reaction to l-1. So I voted. Anyways I'm trying to think of all possibilities to this but gambits like usually end up in an elimnation and at this point BM just make best to help us town out.
Anyways updated rankings scum to less scummy
BM
72
Raya
Looker
Jamsv
Clark
Also ps clark maybe next time you are cop don't out a town unless 100%needed.
My vote on BM is pending Raya cc.
Also did not like Lookers vote on Raya after pushing Jamsv. Potential last attempt to divert wagon but I actually think it's too obvious for it to be really the case. If BM flips town Looker is scum and we go Looker 72. Maybe Raya.
I'm going to put more combos now that we confirm no masons. I suggest we all do this now to make a potential Elo easier.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:13 pm
by 72offsuit
In post 1112, TheThirteenthJT wrote:So I'm not defending BM here because it does look bad. Is his position plausible? Yes. I was actually thinking scum or pr for Clark. The way BM was pushing made me think he was breadcrumbing a PR and wanted to test out Clark's reaction to l-1. So I voted. Anyways I'm trying to think of all possibilities to this but gambits like usually end up in an elimnation and at this point BM just make best to help us town out.
Anyways updated rankings scum to less scummy
BM
72
Raya
Looker
Jamsv
Clark
Also ps clark maybe next time you are cop don't out a town unless 100%needed.
My vote on BM is pending Raya cc.
Also did not like Lookers vote on Raya after pushing Jamsv. Potential last attempt to divert wagon but I actually think it's too obvious for it to be really the case. If BM flips town Looker is scum and we go Looker 72. Maybe Raya.
I'm going to put more combos now that we confirm no masons. I suggest we all do this now to make a potential Elo easier.
Why am I second scummiest on your reads list? Which posts of mine do you find to be scum-indicative?
Hasn't even read the thread regarding his own slot. lol.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:45 pm
by Raya36
In post 1007, 72offsuit wrote:I still don;t get why !townRaya brings this up when its a new day and I was clearly voting for clark, prior to actually posting thoughts on others. So self-centric. It's scummy.
Like I said. I'm a bit detached from the game the past few days since I've been so busy and this is something that stood out for me. Maybe just because it was all directed at me but it still stood out
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:49 pm
by Nahdia
Now seeking replacement for Raya36.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:05 pm
by ClarkBar
And so my belligerent and insulting style of scum-hunting claims yet another.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:06 pm
by Nahdia
Dunnstral replaces Raya36.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:23 pm
by ClarkBar
Lemme guess. Dunnstral has been playing on this site forever, and has a prickly demeanor and a style of play all their own. If newbs don’t get it it’s a big directed at us.
In all seriousness, welcome Dunkirk! Can’t wait to hear your thoughts.
, but I would like everybody to answer it:
directed at us. 