In post 1093, CantHateAPuppy wrote:Though maybe still not what scum would do when there's even a chance midway would vote me still?
probably was feeling the pressure and got overdefensive
Also, look at my reaction to Fidget's fake scum outing. Does that really look fake?
You didn't say "I was first to vote both scum" or "I lead both successful wagons". For some reason in the first one it was important for you but the second one didn't occur to you as scum slaying.
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:29 pm
by midwaybear
Because I recognized that I may have been slightly lucky in a scenario with scum Fidget. I wasn't bragging because I truly thought she played a good game as scum and wanted to respect that.
Not with scum you. I correctly scumread BM early D1 too!
In post 1084, midwaybear wrote:I actually played a good game because I was scumreading BM D1!
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:42 pm
by CantHateAPuppy
Mid I'm not sure why you would have a good kerset scum case when you thought it was me until just now. Actually your towncade might be helpful
Would appreciate a scum case from kerset but the one I'm getting is a little histrionic ("lies")
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:02 pm
by Umlaut
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:12 pm
by midwaybear
Sure, gotta go soon though. I think one reason to call me town is for my votepark on Ydrasse for the majority of D1. This is because
a) I don't really like to bus as scum, so I probably wouldn't even consider voting her in the first place that early(recall that I was the first vote on her)
Newbie 1998 and Newbie 2018 are my only two scumgames here, and I did not bus really.
b) I feel like I would be more self conscious as scum and not keep my vote on her for the whole day. I probably would have moved my vote around a couple of times to make it look like I was doing stuff. I think I unvoted because she claimed cop and revoted after IV cced.
c) This is sort of a stretch, but as you know, the game was quite inactive. Maybe this is hindsight bias, but the Ydrasse wagon built up really quickly without much great reasons. This is probably because she wasn't that scummy, but also because the gamestate allowed such wagons to form. I honestly don't know if I would have known this at the time, but it's something to consider.
RLY? Do you honestly read my posts about midway? Each time i say something it gets entirely ignored by you and i need to remind you about my thoughts to provoke any consideration.
In post 734, Kerset wrote:We should get some discussion with arguments being made. We just kind of stare at each other right now.
In post 719, Kerset wrote:He lacks of commitment to his own leads. Technically he picked Ydrasse to be his target but his whole agenda was only about pursuing dunn at the time and lynching him. Ydr is only mentioned in terms of receiving credit for his eventual flip.
In post 115, Ydrasse wrote:@midway: i guess it wasn't clear and that's on me but i don't actually sr you or mafia goon because i haven't taken this seriously yet.
Ok, it just didn't really sound like you were joking to me.
@IV I was thinking there would be 2 scum because 3 seems like a bit too much for a 10p game. I'm not sure though, and it's interesting that there are 10 players instead of 9.
In post 55, Ydrasse wrote:i am a bit suspicious of you being a mafia goon.
Is this legit?
The puppy is cool
In post 144, midwaybear wrote:@Ydrasse: don't worry. It might look like a lot, but I'm still posting those one liners
I'll reply to BM later, but @BM what made you change your vote? Was it something I did or something Nosferatu did?
My take on what Nosferatu means about Blair/Dunn is that Blair's push on Dunn didn't make sense and thus might have been too informed. However, I think Blair raised a fair point. Also, do you still scumread me blair?
In post 216, midwaybear wrote:
I hope I can post more tomorrow. I think I will VOTE: Ydrasse. I see merit in the Nosferatu wagon, but I think this is fine too.
i don't think that ready2rock's statement about nosferatu is really that confident though, tbf. "very combatitive" is strong wording ig but given that it's pinned on as an afterthought i'd argue that there isn't a lot of heart in it.
yeah this is sorta a hedge. I feel better about my vote.
In post 288, Ydrasse wrote:
also i've been meaning to ask this for like five games now but what in the world does partner equity actually mean.
It means that two people have an above random chance of being wolves together maybe because of a specific interaction(or lack thereof).
I'm lazy so I am going to call Battle Mage's wall town and desperately pray that he isn't scum taking advantage of heavy apathy. Dunnstral legit always plays in a pretty scummy way, but I guess that's no reason not to vote him. I need to hear from him more.
In post 508, midwaybear wrote:i scumread her first, and I don't bus.
I'm not scum here
65, 124 and 144 are not serious at all. 197 and 289 are NAI conversations and in 216 mid decided to cast empty vote. 238 is shading, which could count at pushing his target. 454, 493, 504 and 508 he decided to ask for towncred...
Did i miss any posts or maybe we are talking about different game? First he pushed BM and at later phase, he spend slightly more time on pushing dunn and off tracking over ydra. He was more interested in bragging about ydra to make people memorize his vote placement rather then ensuring his elimination.
In post 1026, Kerset wrote:One thing that crossed my mind is why would scum even kill on n2? If vig presence was predictable then nokill is the best option, it prevents vig from being IC and keeps even numbers of player.
i don't think that ready2rock's statement about nosferatu is really that confident though, tbf. "very combatitive" is strong wording ig but given that it's pinned on as an afterthought i'd argue that there isn't a lot of heart in it.
yeah this is sorta a hedge. I feel better about my vote.
In post 220, ready2rock wrote:To clarify a bit, my case is that in his read of midway, especially his ISO analysis post, he presents every post and basically waves his arms and says "see? this is clearly scum!" There's almost no "this isn't too bad" or "I could see this coming from misled town, but..." and this is what I meant by uncharitable.
I actually felt differently about his early read on me. He was leaving room to townread me and that was the reason for my initial vote.
In post 220, ready2rock wrote:I kinda want to say that this is too careless to come from scum. Been wrong on that before, but I'll go with that for now
With Dunnstral, being lazy as scum is definitely something he would do. I don't think you should let someone free from suspicion just because they seem to be too scummy to be scum.
I think I can see r2r's point based on the quoted portions in 221 about how BM was being uncharitable towards me.
I do agree with IV's most recent post about how BM's early interactions with me aren't necessarily scum motivated. I'm also not realla fan of Blair calling out people but not really explaining why she thinks that way.
We can argue whenever he pushed ydeasee or someone else but he was actively enforcing his ideas.
Then we got d2 midway. This is like his one biggest post over there.
Spoiler:
In post 594, midwaybear wrote:Ok, I should have more time on this game now.
@Nosferatu is BM scum just because of how he voted Ydrasse? I know he pressured you for some bad reasons early in the game, but is there anything more to it?
I'm leaning away from Dunnstral, but he probably has to go at some point in this game because he isn't doing much right now.
r2r and Blair I need to look at more...
Still not sure who to vote yet, but we have time.
Once first scum died, he became idle. There is nothing towny in his passive gameplay and the simplest explanation is that he gave up once he lost his partner so early. With d1 scum lynch, this is what i expect from second scum - despair. It's not like you were posting a lot on d2 but there wasn't any major difference between your d1 and d2.
Cheap lamist trick like hey i was the one who got scum is meh, just scummy looking at actually events.
In post 1023, CantHateAPuppy wrote:midway doesn't deserve that much credit for ydrasse imo because he just asserted she was scum and voted, then hopped off and later back on when it was a strong wagon. not much pushing. otoh it's not exactly scummy either
You only commented my last line. Why did you skip the rest?
In post 1070, Kerset wrote:midway just did a total 180° over 12h from one intent to another to get the easiest mislynch and puppy is just totally blind to it
its hard to give better argument then than, as i said only PT quote would beat it
Meantime each time midway says ANYTHING. You just greet him with open hands and discuss with attentiveness.
In post 1066, CantHateAPuppy wrote:Actually, that's the best setup spec anyone's done all game tbh. Embarrassed I didn't think of it first
Willing to give kerset time to respond. I still think it's probably kerset and will vote there, but if you really want me to vote first for a cross I might
In post 1065, midwaybear wrote:So Umlaut, if you really put a backup BP as a red herring, it really made an impact on the game. Good job, but ugh then.
This will be really lmao if Midway is the scum after all
Actually I don't think scum says this here at all, this is one of those town "moments" scum doesn't fake imo
In post 1091, CantHateAPuppy wrote:Yeah it's also suggestive that kerset didn't vote until you said you would vote her
In post 1093, CantHateAPuppy wrote:I had the thought that scum kerset voting me and making a midway/kerset cross would be game-losing when midway would have voted me otherwise
But since midway decided to vote kerset instead, no longer game-losing. Maybe the better option because that means she controls the cross I stead of midway. Though maybe still not what scum would do when there's even a chance midway would vote me still?
In post 1093, CantHateAPuppy wrote:Though maybe still not what scum would do when there's even a chance midway would vote me still?
probably was feeling the pressure and got overdefensive
Also, look at my reaction to Fidget's fake scum outing. Does that really look fake?
It could be. If I was scum and someone fake outed Id immediately fake celebrate with everything I've got
LIKE WTF? You are not unresponsive by your nature, you are just selective. 1091 is just pure "fuck you i don't care about midway doing 180, i need to discuss with him possibility of you being wolf". You don't talk about any of my posts and respond to everything he says. Hmmm i wonder why kerset is demotivated and doesn't reason with arguments HMMMMMM OMG MID YOU SAID FOR 4TH TIME THAT YOU ARE GOING TO CHECK ISO AND FINNALY DID IT? WOW AFTER 2 INGAME DAYS OF DOING NOTHING YOU MADE ACTUALLY READ!? YOU ARE SO TOWNY, LOOK KERSET WHY ARENT YOU SCUMHUNTING LIKE MIDWAY?
Now you ask me to waste my time and make a case? You will just ignore it like everything else.
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:32 am
by midwaybear
In post 1105, Kerset wrote:Meantime each time midway says ANYTHING. You just greet him with open hands and discuss with attentiveness.
Lies.
In post 1105, Kerset wrote:Now you ask me to waste my time and make a case? You will just ignore it like everything else.
It's LYLO. He would be a bad puppy to just ignore you (still should vote you though ). So another exaggerated lie.
Kerset, you thinking me asking for towncred is scummy is very shallow thinking. If I was scum, I would not open the day blatantly begging for towncreds. I would probably just let people do their own thing, and maybe help interpret the wagons.
I was suspecting Ydrasse in quotes 66 and 124, but as people have said, I don't always explain my line of thought. As I said before, I found her scummy for randomly scumreading Mafia Goon and me.
D1 midway also made short posts. I gave up on wallposting. That is cherrypicking.
Also, me not scumhunting is not scummy. No one else was really doing it, and I was in a large theme game at the time that sapped my will to play this game. Now, I am locked in and will do whatever it takes to make YOU the launch today.
Honestly, you really haven't been scumhunting at all. You've just been calling me scum for the same reasons you called Dunnstral scum D2.
Still haven't refuted anything I've said about the setup spec and in 1104.
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:25 am
by Kerset
Lies.
i just shown quotes, which prove it....
In post 1106, midwaybear wrote:
D1 midway also made short posts. I gave up on wallposting. That is cherrypicking.
Also, me not scumhunting is not scummy. No one else was really doing it, and I was in a large theme game at the time that sapped my will to play this game. Now, I am locked in and will do whatever it takes to make YOU the launch today.
You just prove my point. On D1 you were energetic and motivated. On D2,D3 right after your partner got launched you gave up and barely posted. Now when you are close to victory you became energetic again.
You just take my every post and say: No this is not true. Arguing with you would be like talking with pigeon.
Spoiler: Midway case on D1 actions
216
Okay first we have midway vote. He gave with and promised to explain later. Spoiler alert: He never did. 238
Here he 'feels better about his vote'. Ydra is not being attacked, accused or shaded. He discuss dunnstral case with r2r. 239
calls r2r good 243
self defense 250
talk with dunn 267
we prob should hang yra, if nothing comes up 289
explains term 347
Alright, we going Dunnstral today? (this time without probably) 371
wants to hang dunn 386
yra is also fine lynch 392
but launch dunn
This is low key scummy because you aren’t specifying what role. I still will vote ydrasse though VOTE: Ydrasse
He goes back on Ydra wagon but doubts CC.
-Ydra gets launched-
He didn't push or shade ydra at all, there was no commitment like in BM. He stayed there so dunn mislaunch could happen in the background. Once ydra got some votes instead, he tried to push it back at dunn and came back only when things got settled to keep his place on wagon.
Pretty much what i said once i replaced but with quote references.
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:49 am
by Kerset
In post 1065, midwaybear wrote:Now if there is a red herring of backup BP, that just makes a weird setup with 3 pseudo confirmed townies with potential to clear more against 2 scum. That is quite townsided IMO.
So backup BP has to be false, because it a pseudo confirmed town role? How am i confirmed? Where is my potential clear? If my role is a red herring then there is no way for me to confirm it.
Your theory is that on N2 i decided to claim unconfirmable role, so this setup could look weirder? What is the advantage in that? Entertainment of audience?
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:52 am
by midwaybear
In post 1107, Kerset wrote:On D2,D3 right after your partner got launched you gave up and barely posted.
what about BM who basically lurked out D2? All he did was weakly push Nosferatu in two posts lol
I already said why me not pushing Ydrasse was townie in 1104. You also have not addressed my pro setup spec that pratically outs you as scum. Also, quite suspicious how you hadn't posted for over 2 days and then when I start to suspect you you're back. I think you were just lurking waiting for me to self destruct tbh
Address.
my.
posts.
In post 1065, midwaybear wrote:Now if there is a red herring of backup BP, that just makes a weird setup with 3 pseudo confirmed townies with potential to clear more against 2 scum. That is quite townsided IMO.
So backup BP has to be false, because it a pseudo confirmed town role? How am i confirmed? Where is my potential clear? If my role is a red herring then there is no way for me to confirm it.
Your theory is that on N2 i decided to claim unconfirmable role, so this setup could look weirder? What is the advantage in that? Entertainment of audience?
Yes, I already explained how backup BP to scum bulletproof makes NO sense which means either your role is red herring or you are lying.
If your role is red herring, then setup is 3 TPR vs 2 goon which is not fun at all for mafia.
My theory is that you just decided to fakeclaim for some random reason, and it backfired.
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:55 am
by midwaybear
In post 1107, Kerset wrote:You just take my every post and say: No this is not true.
I mean you are scum, so of course what you say has anti-town intent.
Neither nothy or Ircher doesn't consider powerless role as TPR
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:07 am
by Kerset
or maybe i should say phase it: they don't count it as such
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:10 am
by Kerset
In post 1109, midwaybear wrote:what about BM who basically lurked out D2? All he did was weakly push Nosferatu in two posts lol
He had out of game reasons, which ultimately caused him to replace.
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:14 am
by midwaybear
so you are just a named townie?
don't believe it for a second
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:15 am
by Kerset
In post 1107, Kerset wrote:216
Okay first we have midway vote. He gave with and promised to explain later. Spoiler alert: He never did. 238
Here he 'feels better about his vote'. Ydra is not being attacked, accused or shaded. He discuss dunnstral case with r2r. 239
calls r2r good 243
self defense 250
talk with dunn 267
we prob should hang yra, if nothing comes up 289
explains term 347
Alright, we going Dunnstral today? (this time without probably) 371
wants to hang dunn 386
yra is also fine lynch 392
but launch dunn
This is low key scummy because you aren’t specifying what role. I still will vote ydrasse though VOTE: Ydrasse
He goes back on Ydra wagon but doubts CC.
-Ydra gets launched-
He didn't push or shade ydra at all, there was no commitment like in BM. He stayed there so dunn mislaunch could happen in the background. Once ydra got some votes instead, he tried to push it back at dunn and came back only when things got settled to keep his place on wagon.[/spoiler]
Pretty much what i said once i replaced but with quote references.
1104 is explained here. Once true fact as showed your facade falls. You can say lies lies lies all you want but quotes with context speak for itself.
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:17 am
by midwaybear
In post 1104, midwaybear wrote:Sure, gotta go soon though. I think one reason to call me town is for my votepark on Ydrasse for the majority of D1. This is because
a) I don't really like to bus as scum, so I probably wouldn't even consider voting her in the first place that early(recall that I was the first vote on her)
Newbie 1998 and Newbie 2018 are my only two scumgames here, and I did not bus really.
b) I feel like I would be more self conscious as scum and not keep my vote on her for the whole day. I probably would have moved my vote around a couple of times to make it look like I was doing stuff. I think I unvoted because she claimed cop and revoted after IV cced.
c) This is sort of a stretch, but as you know, the game was quite inactive. Maybe this is hindsight bias, but the Ydrasse wagon built up really quickly without much great reasons. This is probably because she wasn't that scummy, but also because the gamestate allowed such wagons to form. I honestly don't know if I would have known this at the time, but it's something to consider.
You don't address any of this.
You just say I never hard push Ydrasse and I explained why here.
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:22 am
by Kerset
and switch to other wagon once your partner got actual votes....
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:25 am
by midwaybear
In post 1118, Kerset wrote:and switch to other wagon once your partner got actual votes....
your scumbuddy chose to fakeclaim 2-shot cop
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:06 am
by midwaybear
Puppy, Kerset is frozen.
I have dismantled her main argument regarding my behavior around Ydrasse in 1104. Additionally, her only response to my setup spec is a named townie should not be considered town power which is sorta false and isn’t even a complete refutation.
You know what to do here. Let’s end this one and win it for the town!
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:39 am
by Kerset
You still insist that your setup theory makes sense? You love to defy facts, don't you? I do modding, so i can even show you the most similar setup from archive.
with your math. We even got the same number of players
Your argument is that 1-shot Vig + Gunsmith + Named is overly Townsided? You insist that this game has to be just 1-shot Vig + Gunsmith?
As i said every time reference is being shown your points are revealed to be just a delusion, which you are trying to enforce.
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:33 pm
by CantHateAPuppy
the only reason i respond to midway's posts more is that if you don't he won't show you what he's thinking. kerset is much easier to get a thought out of. (thanks! even if you're scum though i'm not sure)
night 8 vig
i will do a little reread and will probably hammer tonight. i don't want to say something like "whenever umlaut posts a new votecount" because that's maybe a little scummy of me, but i kinda don't want to vote and then wait a few hours for flip
i'm still thinking it over, kerset has made some very good points the last page tbh. my real hesitation is that i never get lylo right, ever
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:57 pm
by midwaybear
In post 1121, Kerset wrote:1-shot Vig + Gunsmith + Protective + Powerless trap role. 4 PTR with your math. We even got the same number of players
Your argument is that 1-shot Vig + Gunsmith + Named is overly Townsided? You insist that this game has to be just 1-shot Vig + Gunsmith?
Scum had good power roles in that game. Scum has a 1 shot BP this game(weaker). I know you are a 1 shot Bulletproof scum Kerset.
Umlaut doesn't put named townies in his setups. You gave up pushing me as scum with Ydrasse(lol I unvote because she claim cop), so you choose to attack my setup spec.
Puppy, if I'm scum, why do I react to Kerset's vote like that. Why don't I immediately cross vote and only vote when you show up? Kerset is also scum because of her LYLO play. She has literally lurked and done nothing until I start suspecting her. That's textbook scum. Compare that to me. I'm actually showing nervousness about voting, and I'm also trying to solve. She didn't.
If you are going to vote me, at least let me do some ATE.
). So another exaggerated lie.
