Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Trust Fund]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mastin2

Skull joins cool kids club list.

[Sound of Silence]

I think a better question is why would a Doctor try to protect a claimed PGO in the first place? Just to see if he's faking it?

This actually happened in one of my first games at MS. GiF, Majiffy and Varsoon also played that game.

[BROseidon]

Ugh sorry for being busy today. This game got out of control and I'm bad at keeping up once that happens >.>

I have a catchup wall through around post 1000 (fucking MS hates me and stops letting me quote things). Here it is. If you respond to it, I still have like 8 pages or so to catch up on, so I might take a while to respond:


Catchup post time AKA “how long till MS stops keeping me logged in because I’ve quoted to many things:”

I agree with sound's assessment that bro looks uncomfortable but that post where he thinks he caught fery out on a liar tell is so batshit insane that I almost want to put him in the town category.

It’s like everyone forgot Xenoblade or something ☹

Consistency betrays earnestness which I find is difficult for scum to fake. It also makes the progression of his read transparent.

The second question is pretty loaded. What makes wagon speed alignment indicative?

But consistency is easy as fuck for scum to fake if they’re stealing it from other townies. Not sure if that’s what’s happening here, but it’s worth watching out for.

Wagon speed is alignment indicative because scum are more likely to push a wagon on town than on scum relative to the likeliness of town pushing one on scum. Unless you have bus-heavy scum, but then you can look for the busser.

I feel his town play has far, far outweighed his scum play.

What is the town play in so aggressively trying to push through a wagon within the first 200 posts on someone who looked town, exactly? This is the part of the argument I don’t get. Mac’s push on TD was scummy as fuck.

FTL townread is good. Nick one is probably good as well, but I'd love to hear your reasoning for it.

His play reminds me of the newbie we all had together, in terms of how he tunnels aggressively regardless of the relevance of the target, and his general disposition in how he argues. That he’s going after people and willing to be abrasive indicates a town-mindset of pushing things through and finding scum over a scum mindset of blending in and not getting singled out.

Also going to point out that Nacho’s 832 feels like his play as my IC more than his play in Xeno, and he was town in both of those. Slightly townreading that post.

Because generally when I have a scum read, I want them dead. Now, mods for some silly reason don't give me the power to vote all my scum reads at once, most games.

You don’t want to solidify reads? The eff?

Remind me to take you far in games where I’m scum.

Mac’s 855-858 read pretty town (moreso the last few). Gonna table this read for now, I’ll return to it in a bit.

Btw nothing Mala is posting is making me feel good about that slot. She’s posting a lot of null and nhammen posted scummy so…

Ugh I’m thinking Varsoon is scum but he’s not making this read easy. He’s playing in an awkward place where he’s not being nearly as crazy/abrasive as I’ve seen him as town, but he’s not being as cooperative as he was in C&H.

BROseiden- I like his notes regarding ghostlin, a player most people seem to have overlooked

Note his towny notation of the fact that nobody is talking about Ghost.

Re muffins 879: Thing that triggered you as scummy was that you jumped on the TD wagon that was bad. However, of the people who jumped on, you did so a way that was less bad. The Mac scumread came mostly from the tone that he had towards the end of his TD questioning: it sounded less like he was trying to discern TD’s alignment and more like he was trying to bully TD into a position to get lynched. Mac’s recent posts have been more townie, though.

Mastin: My reading of you has nothing to do with preconceived notions of you. I’ve barely interacted with you ever. My read of you comes mostly from what you’ve posted with a little bit from the fact that you’re verbosity drives me insane.

And now we reach the part where MS doesn’t keep me logged in. Joy…

well I was just thinking about bro and was wondering if I should him down to unsure. I was back to wondering if the uncertainty is more of an uncomfortableness since he was scum who won in the last game and he is paranoid people are going to scrutinise everything he does. he hasn't followed up with "I caught sound in a liar tell!" so that is a little worrying.

I haven’t really posted since then, SoS hasn’t really been posting, nothing they’ve posted has stuck out as particularly town or scum (although the fact that ffery is so low volume is strange and I makes me want to revoke the read, since she’s not spamming up the thread and making it hard to read).

SoS points a read list with no explanations for anything. Useful…

Explanation on Nick makes me feel less bad about the slot, since I’d assume ffery is referring to the same game that I am.

So mastin has a “super secret theory.” Woohoo, useful >:C

Don’t like TF saying “I agree with these reads almost perfectly”

[Faster Than Light]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mastin2

Skull joins cool kids club list.

I will eat your soul.


-V

[Sound of Silence]

especially because GiF always buddies me regardless of his alignment.

So what does this tell you?

[Varsoon]

especially because GiF always buddies me regardless of his alignment.

So what does this tell you?

In the context of the larger quote I was addressing, it felt like GiF was a bit on the fence about calling me scum or town, which confused me. GiF has been very straightforward in reading me in the past, so the indecision over if I was scum or not, and the fact it felt expressed that it could go either way made me way more skeptical about the SoS slot. The ruling in favor of scum seemed to be made in light of a town consensus on me, but had enough there that if GiF changed the read, it wouldn't be so jarring.

Spoiler:

This is how you properly use meta, you shitlords. See how I use my previous experience with GiF as a basis for springboarding into discussing my issues surrounding GiF's play here, but I

also

explain why GiF's current play in

this game

is questionable by itself? That's how you do it. You don't just say "X never does Y" or "X usually does Y" without giving context and analyzing how X is doing Y in the current game.

What does it tell me, though?
To be suspicious of the SoS slot and regard it with more scrutiny in the future.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

especially because GiF always buddies me regardless of his alignment.

So what does this tell you?

In the context of the larger quote I was addressing, it felt like GiF was a bit on the fence about calling me scum or town, which confused me. GiF has been very straightforward in reading me in the past, so the indecision over if I was scum or not, and the fact it felt expressed that it could go either way made me way more skeptical about the SoS slot. The ruling in favor of scum seemed to be made in light of a town consensus on me, but had enough there that if GiF changed the read, it wouldn't be so jarring.

Spoiler:

This is how you properly use meta, you shitlords. See how I use my previous experience with GiF as a basis for springboarding into discussing my issues surrounding GiF's play here, but I

also

explain why GiF's current play in

this game

is questionable by itself? That's how you do it. You don't just say "X never does Y" or "X usually does Y" without giving context and analyzing how X is doing Y in the current game.

What does it tell me, though?
To be suspicious of the SoS slot and regard it with more scrutiny in the future.

-V

Damn it.

I'd slam out the pressure on you, but I've got my hands in an entirely different pie right now.
Too bad none of these maggots care.

-V

[Ghostlin]

VOTE: RACHMARIE

redemption. sweet, sweet redemption.

you are scum aren't you

Bed and Breakfast, why is Nacho scum for this vote? I, for one, consider that this vote is entirely possible considering the game play in Xeno 1.

[Ghostlin]

You don’t want to solidify reads? The eff?

I never said anything of the sort? At this point, all I have is behavior and things that are shaping me wrong, and if you do something bad enough to get my attention, I generally want to nuke it from orbit. I can also be your best friend if I think you're town and you're using your brain.

The context of this quote is mostly to say if I read you as scum, you're scum until something changes you otherwise; a change in play, confirmable, valid information; context of other flips making you unlikely to be scum; etc. At this juncture, I'm ready to go for anyone I see as scum, because there's not much difference in my jargon Day 1 as 'scum' and 'reading you as scum'.

I am interested why you tended to blow up my classic 'why aren't you voting for this person' defense (it's what I generally use for that) to 'I don't want to develop/solidify reads' defense. I tend to act on what I know Day 1. I didn't like TD's cracked out posts, so I voted him. He's not the best play now, because he's changed his behavior.

[Ghostlin]

Dear Nacho, Venmar, Desperado, Ghostlin, thezmon,

How much do you want notscience dead this very minute? (On a sliding scale of ANDY STAHP to )

-Andy

Nuke it from orbit.

[Ghostlin]

If you tell a lie often enough, does it become truth?

If you say that you're Town often enough, does that make you Town?

EVERYONE IN TOWN, WATCH THIS CLIP:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... -questions

COMPARE IT TO WHAT SKULL JUST DID. AND THEN CONSIDER THAT MALA JUST SAID SHE SUPPORTED THIS VOTE.

[Ghostlin]

Whoops. Trust Fund, not Mala. I still hate the support, so I will apologize to Mala and tell TF off.

[zMuffinMan]

@MALA,

Spoiler:

I also find it odd how many people didn't comment on my interaction with Ghostlin besides Mac

I am reading everything, but I've lost interest in commenting on most of the stuff happening - I feel like my opinion's being drowned in a sea of dumbshitness so I don't see a need. It's factoring into my reads, though. And if it's something I feel I need to bring attention to, then I'll do it. I'm also betting that anyone who I'm not responding to is currently skipping over my walls, which is why I'm choosing only to respond to about 5 people. I'm actually considering just lurking through the game until the herd thins, because there's so much dumb shit going on and so few people properly analysing it.

It's like [FTL's] trying to not look scummy and is avoiding in the future being called out for lurking.

I can understand why you might think that, maybe, sorta, but I was null on that. Considering there were already a couple people calling him scummy at the time, it doesn't really surprise me one way or another that he said something like that. It was bad, and he could be scum saying it, but I can also imagine him saying the same thing as town, so I don't really have an issue with it.

Also this is just lazy excuse to have a vote on someone. If I disagree with a read my partner has I'll fight it as much as possible on skype etc. At least I'll attempt to change my hydra's partner's mind. It's like I'm reading him as town, but I'm too lazy to really scum hunt and place a vote.

This is what I initially thought when I started questioning him about it, but during the exchange with him, I actually felt he came off as rather townish. For example, I imagine them as town here because it seems MS genuinely wanted to find out why his other head had a scum read on TD when he was reading TD as town, and I think the openness in him giving his own reads when he questioned me about my scum reads showed town intention. Also it became rather apparent (during the exchange and in FTL's later posts) that they have been trying to get in contact with each other to discuss their reads.

I actually do not see how anyone who really analyses the exchange between MS and I on that page can come off thinking he's more likely scum than town. :/

@MASTIN,

Spoiler:

Ghostlin's been one of the strongest, most logical, and reasonable players this game. He's about as town as can be.

I disagree with this. I'm kind of null-slightly-townish-but-not-really on Ghostlin atm.

Yes, his posts have been some of the only posts that contained any semblance of logic in this game (and for that I'm grateful), but when I was rereading the thread I realised that there's nothing particularly town about his posts, and I could see him making the exact same posts as scum.

e.g. when I really dissected his #143 and #383, while all the stances are logical, I didn't feel they were really town. I could see him taking the exact same stances as scum because they're easy stances to take from a logical perspective and I don't feel any particularly town thought process in them.

But maybe this is just me being overly paranoid.

Aj the Epic is a strong townread, because his content has been good

Same as my read on Ghostlin., except some of the things he've said have looked kinda townish so he's in my maybe town list and at least not someone I'm particularly worried about today.

I can see zMuffinMan being scum because his reads are even worse than mine are

Do you honestly believe I'd go against the grain this much D1 as scum?

Are you saying this because you simply don't recall me doing this as town in every single game I've played with you?

TD is a player whose content looks incredibly town

No.

Your continued posting, me re-evaluating and realizing you were less town than I originally thought and more scum

This doesn't explain your scum read on nick at all, and is really, really lazy.

@DESPERADO,

Spoiler:

I also took his "TD you're running away" comments to be a form of taunting and akin to the examples you quoted here.

I don't see it that way. I think this was Mac legitimately thinking TD was avoiding answering his questions (and TD was doing this, by pretending that because they weren't actual questions, he didn't need to address them).

Also, this statement still lacks the same confidence I'm specifically talking about.

Do you have additional experience with him?

No, this is my first game with most of the playerlist since I only recently started playing again after a 1.5-year hiatus (before most of the players here joined this site). But I don't put much value on meta. I imagine I could go through his other games and find things to support my theory about his play here, and you could maybe find some stuff to support yours, but I see that about as useful as TD's horrible ISO analysis where he just tries to find something scummy about everything regardless of whether it actually is or isn't scummy. People who claim "meta reasons" are generally biased or not properly analysing the "meta" of that player.

By the way. 5 scum slipping. Mastin, are you sure you didn't receive a scum role PM?

Stuff like this is bad. mastin isn't

this

dumb. It's extremely likely he legitimately thought the host said there were 5 scum in this game - whether that actually happened is another case altogether, and I seriously doubt it has anything to do with his alignment, regardless of whether he's actually town or scum here.

---

Uh, care to explain? I didn't see my name in your post except here so I'm a bit confused.

Gut. I don't have any substantial reason here, so you're a maybe. I didn't like the overreactions in your first wall and I'm not following some of the conclusions you came to in your reads. If I had any strong reason for thinking you were scum right now, you'd be more than maybe-scum, but I don't.

Although I will say the wall this quote is from came off as a bit more townish. It'd help if you explained the SoS/BnB scum reads though, and why you're maybescum on FTL and nick.

---

Also pretty sure #1123 was a scum post. Those questions are really, really bad.

Haven't read p46 yet.

[Faster Than Light]

If you tell a lie often enough, does it become truth?

If you say that you're Town often enough, does that make you Town?

EVERYONE IN TOWN, WATCH THIS CLIP:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... -questions

COMPARE IT TO WHAT SKULL JUST DID. AND THEN CONSIDER THAT MALA JUST SAID SHE SUPPORTED THIS VOTE.

I can't stand Mala & TF in this game, so, yeah.
Also <3 that clip.
It's 3.35 AM here, but I still can't get in touch with MS.
Going to sleep.

-V

[Sound of Silence]

FTR that wasn't fery.
I found you commenting on me not buddying you anymore was quite interesting, so I asked you about it.
Instead, all I found is... magical stance change.

The post I quoted from states that me not buddying you is alignment-null and just gives you and headache for me not doing so, which is why it caught my attention. And now you're trying to incriminate me by implying that only town-GIF do so.

Added to that, you're not even thinking about the possibility that maybe

your play

is what makes me hold back from that "buddying" (or simply, "omg he's town dude")

"it could go either way"? If you're talking about hedging, fuck yeah I'm gonna hedge. You're not the Varsoon I once knew anymore. You've changed. Hell, I still don't know what to make of your play so far. You've turned from being snarky ol' Varsoon to pretty much abusive and aggressive. I don't see any Varsoon^TM crazy-reaction testing, no Varsoon-wall, etc.

Granted, there ARE some similarities I'm seeing, such as despising metaplay. Your early posts (such as post 53) are actually classic town-Varsoon play.
However, your later posts, especially post 1111, is just... idk. It's nothing like town-Varsoon I've seen in past 3 games. Your language got abusive very quick. Also I remember how town-you dealt with the pressure. Remember Newb 1339? You even fucking embraced the pressure on you there. Now look what you degraded to. You're acting like you're in shit ton of pressure even though in reality there's not much pressure on you and some ppl started to put you down as "omg vig this."

So TL;DR is this. Your early play reminds me of town-Varsoon, but your later play and your abusive tone does not.

I know you despise metaplay, but I'll have to read C&H mafia to see if your current play is just a simple metachange or scumplay.
Not today, though. It's 3:37 AM in here and I already spent too much time talking about you with fery.

[Sound of Silence]

^
To Varsoon.

[Faster Than Light]

You used to read me so well, so it's unsettling now. I know, things've changed.
I changed. People didn't like how I played before. They lynched it. It sucked.
I'm not incriminating you, just trying to wrap my head around your indecisiveness. It's not what I'm used to.
As far as my 1111 goes, I got pissed. I feel like I've made some good points in this game, and when players like TD, Mala, and TrustFund all actively ignore and treat me like crap, well, it's not cool.

I feel like my hands are tied with Metal Sonic. I need to talk to him so I can really push my scum candidates into the ground. I don't want to take the helm when he's not here, especially because when I do that sort of thing, it tends to get me lynched. I wouldn't care so much if it were just me, but MS is in this slot, too.

Thanks for chatting with me on this, though. It's nice to get to discuss something with another player for once instead of type things and hope someone will care/it'll have an effect.

-V

[TiphaineDeath]

You shouldn't bottle up your anger like that varsoon, just let it all out.

I felt like the post I was commenting on was you trying way too hard to look town and it looked scummy to me.

I don't particularly feel the need to overanalyze every single one of my intuition based reads.

You should take this game less seriously <3. (And yes, this is coming from me, so that should tell you something.)

[Ghostlin]

Scum on the Mastin wagon: Thank you, you're really making it deliciously easy to find you and lynch the fuck out of you later. Keep it up.

I think FTL is Town too. I get Varshoon's head space in 1141 on a personal level, and he's I think trying to...not be so in-obvious after his other play in the game he'd rather I not mention. Also, Muff is giving me good vibes for 1138, and not because he can read and get what I'm talking about.

(Also, Var, you don't have to give it all up. I developed weaponized ridicule to destroy my enemies.)

Everyone consider 1125 for a minute. I'm self-confessed bad at hydra reading (and perhaps bad at hydra), but think about the simplistic head space here: someone agrees with me, regardless of reasoning being poor, hence they must be Town. That's...not a town stance. That's not even a sensical one. Yeah, TF goes on the list.

P-EDIT: But TD, I like hating people to death...

[zMuffinMan]

That's...not a town stance.

That's not even a sensible one.

Yeah, TF goes on the list.

Basically my thoughts on TF summarised in three sentences.

The bolded are my thoughts on the entire game summarised in one sentence.

[zMuffinMan]

Wagon speed is alignment indicative because scum are more likely to push a wagon on town than on scum relative to the likeliness of town pushing one on scum. Unless you have bus-heavy scum, but then you can look for the busser.

I have about ten reasons this is really, really horrible, but I think it's a waste of time to discuss theory here.

What I do want to say is that wagon analysis is

at most

circumstantial (as you seem to acknowledge in the last sentence here), and should never be talked about prior to flips, and certainly not as a reason for thinking someone is likely town.

But you seem to think differently, so when are we going to get your analysis and reads based on the speed of the TD wagon? You've mentioned in passing a couple people you think were likely scum on the wagon, but haven't elaborated on any of this yet (unless I missed it).

Thing that triggered you as scummy was that you jumped on the TD wagon that was bad.

And what made you think I was scum because of this? Am I town now or just less scummy than you initially thought?

The Mac scumread came mostly from the tone that he had towards the end of his TD questioning: it sounded less like he was trying to discern TD’s alignment and more like he was trying to bully TD into a position to get lynched. Mac’s recent posts have been more townie, though.

So is mac scum, town or null now?

When you finish catching up can you give a list of all your reads (preferably sorted into town, scum and null)? Don't care if there are explanations here, just want something to reference so I know your thoughts on the game.

[Sound of Silence]

Ok. FTL is town.

[Ghostlin]

Ok. FTL is town.

Yeah, if Varshoon faked 1141, he's the best fucking actor I've ever seen and deserves to win this game.

[Ghostlin]

Ok. FTL is town.

Yeah, if Varshoon faked 1141, he's the best fucking actor I've ever seen and deserves to win this game.

[Sound of Silence]

SoS hasn’t really been posting

I find this post slightly amusing for we're the second most posted player in this game.