IME T S O sometimes tunnels, and if he gets into that mode, his voting is quite different from games where he doesn't tunnel. I've seen him tunnel more often than not in games.In post 1110, Riptide wrote:So remember when I asked for TSO's meta? I didn't just leave it there. I decided to take a quick skim over it and found a few interesting notes.
1) Votes - In 3 out of the 5 games, TSO died early. Even considering that, TSO has more votes in each town game than in this one. Voting is one of the most useful tools to townies and this game TSO has been quite conservative with his vote. Why would Town do that?
My game experience with him also contradicts this meta. In games where he didn't get replaced, he was lynched day 1 (Newbie 1436), vengekilled day 4 by the player he'd tunneled all game prior to that (red wine large theme), and survived all 487 days (the FEA large theme). Townie survival rates are usually pretty dependent on what the player list as a whole looks like.2) Early death - This isn't that strong of a tell, but TSO is viewed as a very strong player, so much so, he was nightkilled night 1 in two of his meta games and night killed night 2 in one of them. With the super strong start that TSO had, you would think he would be a prime target for scum, but somehow he hasn't been night killed yet. You can argue how this is WIFOM, and I guess this is in some ways, but TSO not dying was something that was bugging me earlier on in this game as well.
This is a decent point and something that kinda bugged me about him. That said, TSO provided a counter-example, and this isn't exactly a knock-out piece of evidence. If there were several more little pieces of evidence like this then maybe I would reconsider, but when I weigh this against the rest of my research and my thoughts on the game, it's not enough to make me change my mind.In post 1110, Riptide wrote:1) Votes - In 3 out of the 5 games, TSO died early. Even considering that, TSO has more votes in each town game than in this one. Voting is one of the most useful tools to townies and this game TSO has been quite conservative with his vote. Why would Town do that?
I don't think this really means anything. I pretty much agree with what ffery said about why players die early -- it's really dependent on the game. In some town games I've been killed N1 and in some I've been left alive until LyLo. In the case of TSO in this game, I don't know why scum would have wanted to kill him; he was one of the biggest drivers of the D1 mislynch and I do think it's fairly likely they have an investigative role because of the number of PRs they've NKed, so it makes sense that after the first day or two their kills would be driven by investigation results rather than who they thought looked towny or who they were worried would call them out.In post 1110, Riptide wrote:2) Early death - This isn't that strong of a tell, but TSO is viewed as a very strong player, so much so, he was nightkilled night 1 in two of his meta games and night killed night 2 in one of them. With the super strong start that TSO had, you would think he would be a prime target for scum, but somehow he hasn't been night killed yet. You can argue how this is WIFOM, and I guess this is in some ways, but TSO not dying was something that was bugging me earlier on in this game as well.
fuck. This will be interesting for sure. And Egg, OF COURSE IM SAYING THATSXWHAT HES DOING. Umm... What. I *looked* scummy in both situations. I wasn't scum there. Dice was, yes, but I wasn't. Yes, you are scum.In post 1106, T S O wrote:"I looked scummy there, and I look scummy here, but I was scum there and I'm not here, therefore TSO is scum!"In post 1104, Riptide wrote:In post 1093, HighShroomish wrote:Nope. Nope. Nopenopenope. Not happening. In Hunger Games, Kirby, ironically, was scum. I did things that could be seen as being scummy. Heused those and basically just brushed off everything I said with "You're scum so of course you'd say that." Kirby was scum. His only arguements were really "Well scum would obviously say that, he's flailing." I'm not gonna let this happen to me again. Parallelism FTW.
Aside from the fact that I actually did NOT promise anything, I missed where you pointed out said associative tells, which I can't say if you do or do not lack because I think they're rather stupid and don't use them, and you're whole D2 was a fucking pity-party after your strong D1 and you were saying it was because your strongest scum read was town. And then it took Dice and I to wake you up after telling you IT HAPPENS ALL THE FUCKING TIME. There was no reason for it at all. That along with what you've been doing this game day is (mostly) why I think you're scum.Aside from the fact you're confscum, you promised content and never delivered, you have significant associatives to Jargo which I lack, you've looked like scum all game, etc. etc. etc.
Dude... I... Ugh... Let's just go with no.In post 1136, toolenduso wrote:Well I guess we're not getting that analysis from Dice.
Shroomish, are you still planning on posting research? And are you staying in the game?
This looks like an early and weak by Jargo on TSO.In post 67, Jargonaut wrote:
TSO is making me uncomfortable. I don't know much about how he usually plays, but I had a game with him a little while back where he used a similar sort of hyper aggression as scum. These posts in particular stand out to me:VOTE: TSO. Why are you trying so hard to look town?In post 56, T S O wrote:Well, it's a textbook scum response, because it's really vague with no specifics, but its grandeur suggests I have been roaring to all the players since I came in about my incredible amount ofswaggertowniness. The only problem is I haven't.
no, they're rubbish.In post 1146, Riptide wrote:This looks like an early and weak by Jargo on TSO.In post 67, Jargonaut wrote:
TSO is making me uncomfortable. I don't know much about how he usually plays, but I had a game with him a little while back where he used a similar sort of hyper aggression as scum. These posts in particular stand out to me:VOTE: TSO. Why are you trying so hard to look town?In post 56, T S O wrote:Well, it's a textbook scum response, because it's really vague with no specifics, but its grandeur suggests I have been roaring to all the players since I came in about my incredible amount ofswaggertowniness. The only problem is I haven't.
360 and 343 seem like weird pseudo-defense of TSO/Defending his TSO vote.
Now those are some pretty damn significant associative tells, aren't they.