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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:33 pm
by chaoslord54
chaoslord54 wrote:
Aneninen wrote:So, my reads with marks.
1 – very town
2 – lean town
3 – null, unsorted, unable to read or inconclusive
4 – lean scum
5 – very scum

Spoiler:
CheeryDog
(previously Boonskiies)
Towntells: Boon was the first name on the Chevre wagon. Cheery was away from the Misaka wagon. In general, his posts are not essentially scummy.
Stumtells: : he says that I'm rolefishing and doesn't answer my question about it later. (Indeed I was rolefishing BUT the scum side, not the town side!) General inactivity about scumhunting (though, this plus not voting in the end of Day2 might be an ignorance-read too).
Others: Boon's early posts may be newb-tells. He failed to catchup later, that might be a null.
Mark
: 2


BroodkingEXE

Towntells: Early meta-reading (even if it's not too informative). His scumhunting seems to be genuine.
Scumtells: Not too much. However, he's given away merely 2 votes (both on Day2) so far, which is strange.
Others: As far as I see, he keeps asking questions and doesn't gets answers. Why?
Mark
: 1

ChaosLord

Towntells: First of all, his Tracker claim, if it's real. Sure it may be fake (see my previous post, this post or other players' posts about it) but one thing bothers me considering it fake. Why did he claim on Day2 with tracking Reinoe? Wouldn't it have been easier to wait for Day3? Eg. he could have chosen from more dead players to give away uninformative tracks... He voted on Chevre on Day 1. Even if he didn't give an explanation for that (as far as I saw) it would have made no sense if he were Chevre's partner.
Scumtells: His case on Reinoe on Day1 was shyt. His claim happened in an inappropriate moment, I think. (There was no wagon against him and he provided no info by that.) His jump on the Misaka wagon was awkward. : that's not true. Antihero used to lead a wagon against me but later he abandoned it. There would have been a better track than me, I suppose. What if he tries to buddy me? (Though I can't see any reason for that choice.)
Post-edit
: Yes, that's it, BroodKing! I haven't wanted to talk about it but a Tracker+Cop+Miller setup would be imbalanced. Yet another thing which makes me think that Chaos's faking. (Why haven't I wanted to post about it? Call me a noob but I thought it would have been town-rolefishing.)
Others: The more I read his posts the more I think that he's scum. Still, what if we're wrong? We shouldn't lynch the Tracker in this case. How can I say, I wouldn't suggest lynching him today because the loss might be detrimental. Maybe tomorrow. Prove me if I'm wrong.
Mark
: 5

EvilPacMan

Towntells: Not many. Contentless posts.
Scumtells: may be a soft defense on Chevre. (reading Reinoe who had been dead by then and admitting that it even confirms his truth in ) is very FoS. He was not on the Chevre wagon but was on the Misaka wagon. His recent turn against Konowa is another FoS. (He voted for him in and Chaos followed him in the next post. WTF?) about Konowa is bullshyt. His answer for my question in is the latest scumtell. Check out Cheery's answer later! There's a big difference between
why should he check a claimed role
(Cheery) and
why should he check him if he knows he's scum
(EPM)
Others: What do you think about a Chaos/EPM scumpair?
mark
: 5

Antihero

Towntells: The Chevre wagon. He was the one who jumped off it
but
, he had plenty of time and opportunities to leave that wagon earlier. I've already written about it. (And remember, I had also considered that a scumtell before I checked his vote pattern.)
Scumtells: Hammering Misaka. His sick case against me (plus, I still don't think that he was able to read my post and to respond it with a vote in one minute). His flip-flopping during Day2 (others were talking about that too).
Others: By ISO-ing him I've ignored his emotional posts. (I don't know whether it's a mistake.) As for him I'm at a loss. He's been pretty inactive Today, I wonder what his next posts will be.
Mark
: 3

Guyett

Towntells: Pushing and hammering Chevre (regardless of that fake-hammer, I consider it as a null). I still don't understand why he voted on me (PoE?) but his vote for Misaka seems legit (that vote from Misaka in was awkward). : I like this (I've realized it just now, ISO-ing everyone.) In general, active scumhunting.
Scumtells: Not many. Maybe the fact that his Vote Analysis-es are long and either uninformative or I don't see the logic in them.
Mark
: 1

Startfromtheheart

Towntells: Very little content but at least, some scumhunting and pointing out things like about Don in . Or eg. .
Stumtells: Not voting for Chevre and this post: makes no sense. Re-quoting his own random reads makes no sense as well if he's town.
Others: He's aware of his inactivity and "content-lessness". This, in itself is a null.
Mark
: 3

Konowa

Towntells: Yes, an instant Miller claim is one of the possible gameplays. (Though, it can be faked of course.) His votes make sense in general. Mostly
Scumtells: However, sometimes his FoS-es are silly. (Eg. BroodKing).
Others: He claimed earlier Miller and Chaos claimed Tracker later. Chaos may also know that a Tracker+Miller+Cop setup could be broken (and a Miller without a Cop seems to be a bit "bastard" for me). So, there is a chance that the Miller claim is the fake one. Yet I think Chaos looks scummier. On the other hand, mislynching a Miller is not as bad as mislynching a Tracker. What do you all think?
Mark
: 3


VOTE: EvilPacMan – I'm ready to switch to ChaosLord later. Arguments are in the spoiler.



@Aneninen

If you look through other games EPM has been in, you might notice that his way of playing is the usual way he plays as town. The last game I was in with him he acted the same way, I can link the game if need be
Also, how are my posts coming off scummy? Your argument on why Konowa is town is a little lacking as well.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:17 pm
by BroodKingEXE
Cheery Dog wrote:
evilpacman18 wrote:Cheery Dog:
Scum tracker? Scum miller? No way.

That doesn't answer my question.

Bert's new claim however kind of does.

BroodKingEXE wrote:
If I assumed all the roles in this game existed, town would have a cop, tracker and a jk. That is way too powerful. Usually a player will have like 2 really townie reads, a couple more townie reads and some other ones he might check. That just eliminates scum way too quickly. If there is a cop, they should claim so we can confirm that a miller's existence is valid. They should not claim today unless Konowa's lynch looks inevitable though. If Konowa survives to D4 it might be a good time for a cop to claim too, if they have at least 2-3 interesting good or results (ie not a bunch of dead players).

Let's see, does a cop always exist in a game with a miller?
Nope
Does a cop actually in anyway confirm a miller claim is true?
Nope.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BroodKingEXE

I personally played one closed game on MS, so I'm assuming red-herrings aren't all that common. Unless a couple players confirm that they are common, I'd be willing to drop this plan.

Thinking about Bert's claim, so UNVOTE: Startfromtheheart

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:12 pm
by Aneninen
I think we should summerize the confirmed roles (by deaths), the claims (none of these are confirmed) and the possibilities (some of these have been discussed and/or pointed out by certain players before).

Confirmed

Chevre – Mafia Goon
Don – Town Jailkeeper
Reinoe – Vanilla Town
Misaka – Vanilla Town

Claims

Konowa – Miller
ChaosLord – Tracker
Bert (Startfromtheheart) – Bodyguard
Aneninen – Vanilla Town

Other possible roles
(
warning:
none of their existence is proven! I'm merely summarizing, not rolefishing the town side):
Mafia Rolecop or Mafia Tracker (reason: Don's death)
Cop (reason: There is a Miller claim. Caveat: the existence of a Jailkeeper is proven, there are other two claims on town PRs, having a Cop would be imbalanced.)
Mafia Roleblocker or Godfather or less likely another Mafia PR (beside the Rolecop/Mafia Tracker. Reason: if every claims were true there should be another PR for the scum side or the setup would be seriously imbalanced. Roleblocker counters Jailkeeper, Godfather weakens a possible Cop, especially if we indeed have a Miller. Caveat: that would mean too many roles. I think that's not too likely unless we have something funny eg. a "Pick your Power X/Y"-like game with randomly assigned drafts/choices/etc.)

@everyone
: my questions are:
(1) which claims do you think real/fake? Why?
(2) assuming that every claim is real, can we have a balanced setup here?
(3) if you chose a scum out of the players who haven't claimed anything yet, whom would you choose and why?

Needless to say, don't claim anything and don't assign names to possible roles (eg. PoopingPigeon can be the Cop because...)

Meanwhile, I'm reading the recent posts and answering them soon.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:39 pm
by Guyett
who did you protect Bert?

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:22 am
by BroodKingEXE
He protected DJ on D1 and Chaos on D2.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:25 am
by BroodKingEXE
Guyett wrote:who did you protect Bert?

Also, going off this did you breadcrumb you're protect names?

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:16 am
by Aneninen
Catching-up wall ahead.

Spoiler:
BroodKing wrote:
If there is a cop, they should claim so we can confirm that a miller's existence is valid. They should not claim today unless Konowa's lynch looks inevitable though. If Konowa survives to D4 it might be a good time for a cop to claim too, if they have at least 2-3 interesting good or results (ie not a bunch of dead players).


The Cop (if we
have
one) might claim tomorrow if some useful results can be provided. But, definitely NOT today. I don't see how this question is related to Konowa. Even if I consider it bastard-ish a Miller can exist without a Cop and having Cop+JK+Tracker+Bodyguard on the town side is very OP. (I've already written about this.)


Bert wrote:
Yes, I'm stubborn. oh, and I'm a bodyguard. And I protected without even reading the game - i gave like 2 minutes look to ISOs with the recollection of someone mentioning a soft claim. i found the soft claim, and then - my choice was between don and chaos both nights (i thought gut-wise antihero looked like scum during night 1), and even though I started to doubt chaos starting Day 2, I bodyguarded chaos again Night 2.


I don't get it. What kind of soft claim are you talking about? Don didn't perform a soft clain as far as I know, I'd been searching for it a lot before. Chaos did a "regular claim", not a soft one.
Everyone, what did I miss?

Also, as far as I know there was no (soft)claim on Day 1 by Chaos, nor Don. During that day you never thought that Konowa was scum (nor that he had done a fake-claim). Why didn't you protect him?

Plus, am I right? Did you protect Chaos at both Nights?


Bert wrote: (next post)
Unless there's a ninja which would make sense


Wait-oh.
Is Ninja considered normal at all?
It's not on the normal modifier list according to the Wiki. (Though, it's not on the not normal list either.)


CheeryDog wrote:
Let's see, does a cop always exist in a game with a miller?
Nope
Does a cop actually in anyway confirm a miller claim is true?
Nope.


I agree with you and I've already posted about this topic. Why are you sure that BroodKing is worth a vote for his post you've quoted? (You can find the same post in my post as well.)


ChaosLord wrote:
If you look through other games EPM has been in, you might notice that his way of playing is the usual way he plays as town. The last game I was in with him he acted the same way, I can link the game if need be1
Also, how are my posts coming off scummy? Your argument on why Konowa is town is a little lacking as well.2


(1) Yes, please. I need every bits of information in my situation.
(2) I think I've explained everything in my long post. (To tell the truth, your mark was between 4 and 5 by that time, anyway.)
You're a bit paradox. I'm unsure whether your claim is real at all but, I'd be happy if I found a better scumlynch Today. Because, if we lynch you and you were/are the
Town
Tracker, that would hurt a lot.

Guyett wrote:who did you protect Bert?

BroodKingEXE wrote:He protected DJ on D1 and Chaos on D2.



Excuse me, what sort of stuffid conversation was this? Guyett: Bert wrote whom he had protected. BroodKing: either I'm reading his post wrong he protected Chaos at both Nights.


Also, if you haven't posted about the topic yet, don't ignore my questions can be found in , please!

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:42 am
by Guyett
I'm very hungover and didn't read berts post properly

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:22 am
by startfromtheheart
BroodKingEXE wrote:He protected DJ on D1 and Chaos on D2.


Wrong. Chaos both nights.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:38 am
by BroodKingEXE
startfromtheheart wrote:
BroodKingEXE wrote:He protected DJ on D1 and Chaos on D2.


Wrong. Chaos both nights.

My bad I missed that you said both nights.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:41 am
by BroodKingEXE
Also, did you breadcrumb the protect?

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:19 am
by startfromtheheart
how was I supposed to do that?

I understand asking for that from a hider or cop or JK, but a bodyguard with no dead/successful results to speak for including a no-kill of some sort, really?

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:20 am
by startfromtheheart
i mean the obvious protect from ANYONE was chaos, no matter how much I suspected him/her. If you look at my Day 2 posts, when I speculated about the kill, I called Don very town and was shocked the PR softclaim didn't die.

startfromtheheart wrote:chaoslord softed so badly, how did he/she end up living

i havent re-read, well i did a little during the night (no energy now), and i dont even understand why softclaims dont die unless scum sorry. so my play has dropped off a cliff i think the past month oh well umm

i dont even understand, i think the NK is just not supposed to make sense

sorry rambling but idc really if VCA is considered scummy to you

VOTE: chaoslord

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:21 am
by startfromtheheart
startfromtheheart wrote:i will tell u that don_johnson looked the towniest of towns in my re-skim. very superficial skim btw. i was expecting don or chaos to go, or misaka if scum is really afraid of them or something



startfromtheheart wrote:i was kinda suspicious of anti during re-skim but then i had two long days and i forgot what happened in this game so.....

also this latest VC still has feirei hydra and the yarent alive

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:21 am
by startfromtheheart
VOTE: Brood

I'm confident in this.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:24 am
by startfromtheheart
scum will now have to find a different backup mislynch plan. lolz im pretty sure it was supposed to be me today

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:29 am
by startfromtheheart
just look at all the questions you go in circles about. easily skating by with lots of questions that don't even seem cleverly timed. that overshadows the lack of scumhunting you've done

also, you asked me for a full reads list, but you haven't drawn your conclusions about your own full reads list or looked closely at everyone lately.vague suspicions on me until blowing up on this game day seem totally incentivized by knowing that today is the time to seize the opportunity to mislynch me, especially with don gone and others that know my game well.

otherwise, how come you bring up your suspicions on me now, when they were valid for the past two game days prior to this?

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:37 am
by Aneninen
I'm a bit at a loss about your recent posts. Are you responding to BroodKing or to me?

I also can't find Chaos' Day1 softclaim you mention in and here again. Perhaps it's my fault. I know I'm not the smartest player here but at least I'm TRYING since I can feel that I MUST.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:55 am
by startfromtheheart
why would i softclaim needlessly on d2? im responding broodking....

Aneninen wrote:I know I'm not the smartest player here but at least I'm TRYING since I can feel that I MUST.


im guessing english is not your first language, or is that Brood? because that post feels soooooo scummy tonally

I'm not the smartest player here, and just because my effort hasn't been there - i have an explanation for my lack of stuff in this game - lack of lots of content doesn't mean scum

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:01 am
by Aneninen
No, it is not my first language. I think you've miswritten Brood instead of me. I use that expression many times and in many places. (Outside of Mafiascum as well.)

Why did you write the last sentence? You're way not the on the top of my scumread list. Or was that sentence for Brood again?

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:03 am
by Aneninen
Also, where did Chaos softclaim on Day1? Please, answer that part too. Or have I misunderstood something again? (Yes, my posts tend to be shytty when I'm doing plenty of other things meanwhile, eg. the game linked below.)

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:04 am
by startfromtheheart
chaoslord54 wrote:Do you want me to claim Reinoe? Would that make you get off my case?


softclaim.

sorry, i thought you were asking me when i softclaimed d1/d2, which i did not

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:04 am
by startfromtheheart
don_johnson wrote:lynch chevre. he claimed vanilla and
we already have a soft claim on the table.
no reason to run anyone else up today.

let the night happen.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:12 am
by Aneninen
Oh I see. I thought that softclaim = crumbing something like "need you make pigeons homing"? (=n.y.m.p.h.) My bad, I suppose.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:08 pm
by BipolarChemist
Official Vote Count


BroodKingEXE (2):
Cheery Dog, startfromtheheart
Konowa (2):
evilpacman18, chaoslord54
Antihero (1):
Guyett
chaoslord54 (1):
Konowa
evilpacman18 (1):
Aneninen

Not Voting
: Antihero, BroodKingEXE

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Time Till Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-04 16:00:00)