Mafiascum.net

I meant cabal.

We know he didn't just skim for his own stuff, though, based on the ongoing thing.

Unless the ongoing thing involved him, I guess.

↑ shos wrote:T-boner, there's a key point you're missing in mafia I think - scum LIE ALL THE TIME. so me calling you a liar is not a personal attack and not unjustified by any means. you getting all mad CAPS LOCK LIKE THIS is easily faked and stupid and you're using it to ignore the content. And no, your post barely contains anything, considering there's a thousand posts you apparantly missed.

NO, there is a difference between lying in the game and then lying about general site meta. It is poor sportmanship to lie about why you were low activity, so when you are accusing me is a character thing and I take that personally.

You're also accusing me of seeking a Modkill on Copper which is so off-base, and such a low blow that you shouldn't play mafia anymore. LOW FUCKING BLOW. I had to replace out of the other game because he confirmed things to me that as a living player I shouldn't have known, because he was dead and had spoilers.



I don't care what alignment he is. He continues to come at me with low blows and doesn't deserve to play in team mafia as far as I'm concerned. You NEVER accuse a player of faking v/la or seeking a modkill on another player. I play with good sportsmanship.

I don't think it's a low blow. It's a reasonable strategy. Same with faking V/LA (e.g., similarly, while I think Cabd likely did have some kind of illness, I am skeptical that it fully accounts for his total absence while he was a major topic of discussion).

I mean, heck, "respected" players on the site like mastin have guides that basically advocate tactical replacement.

(Which IMO is way more inappropriate than noticing someone else's violation of site rules and using them to your advantage.)

It's my understanding that site regulations about that kind of thing are that they don't modkill on the grounds that it creates a perverse incentive.

But I was recently in a game where the mods decided to modkill people for EXTREMELY trivial stuff. So maybe that has changed.

Holy fuck stop. Do you want a fucking copy of my stool samples? What you're doing is so downright rude to us as players outside the game.

↑ Iecerint wrote:Of note, that game did include T-Bone having a fake fight with a scumfriend. But that wasn't initiated until like D3, and the circumstances were unique because both of them were under a lot of suspicion and the game mechanics allowed them to duel one another, such that scum would get a bonus from the "lynch" of the other player. So the fight was used tactically to justify an "emotional" duel with the other player. But something like that isn't clearly motivated here, so it's not the same.

Let's talk Iece, cause I really want to get past Shos personal attacks on me and get into this game. As far as I'm concerned what he is doing is beyond alignment, and my outburst isn't alignment indicative, as I think I'd do it no matter what. Dynasty warriors was different in that yes that fight was a concerted effort to get other scum partner some town cred and access to their bonus power. I'm certainly not above bussing a buddy or anything like that.



I don't think faking v/la's or trying to get someone modkilled is a valid tactic anywhere on the site. Both are against the spirit of the game. There is lurking and avoiding the game and avoiding giving input strategically. That's fine. I know some people just prod dodge as a strategy and that is acceptable (albeit lame) way of handling things. When you declare yourself v/la to try and strategically avoid the game is different, because now you are using outside influences on the game to influence it, and that is against the spirit of the game, unsportsmanlike, and all that stuff.

Seeking Modkills is not valid either. I don't believe in 'win-at-all-costs'. Modkills are meant as a punishment to a player who breaks rules, not as an extra kill mechanic for scum (or town). That once again falls under unsportsmanlike conduct and has no place in mafia.

↑ Iecerint wrote:It's my understanding that site regulations about that kind of thing are that they don't modkill on the grounds that it creates a perverse incentive.

But I was recently in a game where the mods decided to modkill people for EXTREMELY trivial stuff. So maybe that has changed.

No, Modkills are meant to punish players, and are usually done in extreme cases. Force replaces are the site norm. I know sometimes Modkills are invoked as a mafia mechanic (such as UnCouth Mafia), and that's different entirely from what we're talking about.

Ultimately this is a discussion more suited for MD, but these are my feelings on it, and I don't appreciate being accused of doing them.

AYYYYYY

Gonna try and catch up later and hopefully produce something useful by tomorrow. Definitely before DL.

UNVOTE:

↑ T-Bone wrote:When you declare yourself v/la to try and strategically avoid the game is different, because now you are using outside influences on the game to influence it, and that is against the spirit of the game, unsportsmanlike, and all that stuff.

I'm not talking about faking V/LAs. For example, I am not at all suggesting that Cabd is faking an illness -- I think it's extremely likely that he had an illness, that it is correlated with reduced posting patterns sitewide, etc. Hence, I have 0% interest in Cabd's stool samples; I am sure he had E. coli or whatever.

However, there's a sliding scale of V/LAs. There's V/LA where you're on vacation, but have great internet access. There's V/LA where you have the fire-poops and can't function normally, but can post on a computer. There's V/LA where you are inside a volcano doing science and you absolutely aren't going to post at all.

If you are in a high-pressure position in-game, I think you are generally more motivated to "waste" your vacation or suffer during fire-poops and check-in periodically, especially in the intermediate types of V/LAs. This doesn't mean that you're a bad person the times when you'd rather enjoy the vacation or just rest and get better -- it just means the game circumstances were not the sort that would motivate you into extraordinary action. Hence, I don't see it as a personal attack. There's nothing "moral" about playing the game while you're sick or enjoying life or whatever.

Interpreting how a player posts during a V/LA -- just like interpreting how a player posts under pressure or after pressure has dissipated -- is part of playing the game.

T-Bone wrote:Seeking Modkills is not valid either. I don't believe in 'win-at-all-costs'. Modkills are meant as a punishment to a player who breaks rules, not as an extra kill mechanic for scum (or town). That once again falls under unsportsmanlike conduct and has no place in mafia.

Modkills are part of the game whether we like it or not. Lately, they have felt more like part of the game than you or I might like, but that's neither here nor there. Given that something is part of the game, I think it's impossible to play to your wincon and be in the game while being willfully ignorant of those types of interactions. So I think being mindful of such things just marks you (or whomever) as a savvy player rather than an unethical one.

Anyway, being careful enough to notice the thing in the first place is still a towntell. And I doubt a Team Mafia partner would have noticed it on your behalf in this case, since you noticed it because it specifically related to you. This is relevant because a Team Mafia partner noticing it is what would reduce the town-relevance of conscientiousness.

NB: There's a bit of hypocrisy on this front on my part, because I had a V/LA this phase during which I didn't follow the game very closely. I had internet access, but only via phone, but I did keep up with the social dimensions of the site.

People inferred that I was scum during my absence to a certain extent, and I didn't throw a fit and irrationally take it personally.

Like, if town would stop having meltdowns, it would be a lot easier to identify the feigned outrage.

Okay, I understand your v/la point.

While Modkills happen, I don't think seeking them out is the right way to play as any alignment. The Copper situation was unique in that he was dead and spoiled about the game he was referring to and I was alive. I don't think he was intentionally trying to spoil me to get me out of that game or anything, he was trying to make a point and forgot about dead knowledge vs. living knowledge in the game.

Preedit: If it wasn't about the v/la and being accused of using it to intentionally hide from the game, it wouldn't be as big a deal to me. But my mindset on this is pretty consistent and clear, I don't think picking at someone's activity is a valid accusation. I would never think you, or Tier, or anyone was using their v/la as an excuse to hide from the thread, that's unsportsmanlike. We've all been sick. If I'm sick even though I may be at my computer I don't want to be playing mafia, so I don't blame Cabd, I didn't blame Tier. There is intentionally avoiding the thread for game related reasons, and there is avoiding the thread for non-game related reasons, and to me, the distinction is clear.

#2: Mine wasn't feigned I might take mafia too seriously...

↑ Cephrir wrote:We still have a day.

VOTE: T-Bone

↑ shos wrote:Don't know if we can pull this off but will try definitely
VOTE: tboner

hold my hair im yakkin

HAI BINS~

hey tbone

as much as i want shos dead i dont think its really realistic for today

what are your other reads?

T-Bone doesn't think Shos is scum; he was just being OUTRAGED by the TRULY OUTRAGEOUS modkill implications.

I mean, I'm pretty sure he legit said as much.

But it's an OK question tho!

dont think i mentioned anything about tbone thinking shos is scum or not = =b

(not important anyways, the question is whats important)

↑ Cephrir wrote:man shos

you are just so wrong so consistently

:/

!!!!!!!!!

↑ Cephrir wrote:the ongoing games thing

that transcends alignment and win conditions

VOTE: reck

shitty reasonless vote

yep

it pretty much is

moring..
ohly shit I need to sleep more
I sleep like 3 hours a night lately Y_Y someone ven mentioned that my locatino/posting hours don't make sense, lol

tbone, dat omgus is bad, it's emotional and not rational