Open 802: Jungle Oligarchy [Game Over]

[Ahsoka]

I don't think Mafia are on the counterwagon, albeit only 2, so to Galaxii. It looks bad.

1 mafia on the wagon, 1 off to the side. Galaxii being off Klyne makes me think scum are also off Klyne.

[Ahsoka]

i would vote Titus over IV, because i think she's more likely to be a wolf out of the two.

Seems you agreed with my sentiment even

[iamausername]

yes, but i want to know why

you

think so

trying to get a handle on how much of the game you have absorbed

[Ahsoka]

yes, but i want to know why

you

think so

trying to get a handle on how much of the game you have absorbed

I haven't read the Titus vs Klyne. Those reads were based completely on the vote count itself as exactly that, a base. That is why I am going deeper into certain areas. I could be wrong on Titus, I haven't read much of her this game to give anything more than I already have.

[DeasVail]

My scumreads currently are VP Baltar and Klyne (probable werewolves) and MURDERCAT (probable mafia)

I am no longer comfortable with PlusJOYED/IV slot being lynched.

I like Ahsoka's replace in, and I will have more on my scumreads soon.

[DeasVail]

Also apologies

[DeasVail]

Klyne:

In reviewing Klyne's posts over the course of the game I just can't follow any kind of logical reads process.

There's a lot of BRAVADO, such as their interactions with Titus, and even their brief periods of ~sorting~ such as 805, but it seems very inconsistent to me. From 807 there is a vote on PlusJOYED because of an "offensive" ISO which Klyne appears to sit on despite agreeing with different reads from Titus in 909 and alternating between demonstrative suspicion of Titus and thinking she might be town. And all this time Klyne just stays voting PlusJOYED and is clearly uncomfortable with things moving in a different direction in 990 and 1044.

--

VP Baltar:

I briefly highlight my concerns on ORAM in 558. And in reviewing Baltar's posting, there is a distinct lack of what I'd expect from town truly trying to sort the game. I think the key difference between scum and town in a setup like this is that while it may be easier for scum to "scumhunt" because there are other scum to find, there is less pressure associated with it, and generally more importance placed on how they look. I think that the resistance to change with the PlusJOYED wagon is alarming in a similar way to Klyne because VP is expressing resistance to scumreads on me due to me being possible mis-elim bait however seems resistant to the idea of the IV slot being the same, despite a real lack of expressed reasoning behind this read in the thread (978, 982).

I also believe 933 is totally fake, with it being really inconsistent with how he has responded to suspicion otherwise. I think he's trying too hard here to appear confident in his own towniness, probably because he's not town.

--

MURDERCAT:

Posting is generally very superficial and it's becoming more obvious imo as the game goes on. Generally helpful-looking posts and appeasement. I don't have time to go into more detail on this right now but I agree with the growing suspicion towards MURDERCAT this day-phase.

[MURDERCAT]

no i guess that's dumb. the sentence is just missing an implied 'with Plus', which could equally just come from town Baltar thinking about who is partnered with Plus.

I also said exactly that moments after I posted since I realized I might not be entirely clear with the point I was making.

I still think the meta you're using to clear Plus seems thin at best. Clidd seems to confirm that skepticism on my part is warranted.

I don't think anyone is clearing plus, but we should view the slot with an open mind is my point

[MURDERCAT]

VP, Datisi, Klyne, DeasVail, Iamusername, Clidd

I want to start here.

Murdermeowmeow, I saw you town read a couple of these people strongly, but I didn't see any reasons for it.

I've made the reasoning in previous posts.

Klyne is towny for the push on Titus and none of the weird tone arguments do anything for me
clidd is towny for appearing to genuinely solve in multiple places
VP and Datisi are both towny in large part for driving a wagon on scum, but also how they approached the wagons at end of D1.

I think I've made my position on them generally clear but if you want more let me know

[MURDERCAT]

but i'd rather that all the people who agree that Murdercat is obviously mafia just voted Murdercat, because he is obviously mafia.

I still don't understand the argument here

[MURDERCAT]

why would she be mafia here? If she's anything, she's a wolf.

How much of the game have you read?

[VP Baltar]

I think that the resistance to change with the PlusJOYED wagon is alarming in a similar way to Klyne because VP is expressing resistance to scumreads on me due to me being possible mis-elim bait however seems resistant to the idea of the IV slot being the same, despite a real lack of expressed reasoning behind this read in the thread (978, 982).

Well, you're comparing apples and oranges from my perspective. I just finished a game where you were town and we're kind of wallpaper all the way to Xylo. So that's exactly why I think you can be misyeet bait.

PlusJoy I don't have experience with, so I can only go by his play this game. I definitely see what people are saying there about his apathy being hard to read. I feel the same to some degree, but I definitely don't think the meta that has been offered is particularly convincing me he had to be town either. I think you might be overstating my commitment to a PJ/IV wagon, though I guess I can understand a bit because I was super disengaged with this game during the week because of work. IV being here now will probably help either confirm or discredit the scum pings from PlusJoy since IV is going to actually engage with the game.

[VP Baltar]

I also believe 933 is totally fake, with it being really inconsistent with how he has responded to suspicion otherwise. I think he's trying too hard here to appear confident in his own towniness, probably because he's not town.

I mean, first, I'm half joking because I like to have fun with people in games. Second, I do think my play yesterday was pretty clearly town (he said pointing to his own hypocrisy toward Datisi). I've already said I can see people saying wolf if they are super paranoid, but I think if I was scum in that situation I would have just jammed through Titus or Klyne. No reason to take a last minute flyer on a dicey counter wagon (which is a stronger point in Datisi's favor now that I'm talking it through).

It's pretty silly to call that post "totally fake" when you are making comparisons to other ways I've responded to suspicion in this game. If I'm faking there because I'm scum, wouldn't I be faking all those interactions? Some can't be real towny and that one be "fake" scummy.

[Klyne]

Ahsoka purely from a post basis compared to IV impresses me more

Have not really looked at the content of the posts but whatevs

I don't some of the people being like 'well Klyne is just sitting there' well of fucking course I'm just sitting there I said what I said about PlusJOYED and IV didn't make any of that go away

[Klyne]

Obviously both IAAU and MC can't be scum here

...this kind of feels like a slip

I'm not following.

you know that neither of us are wolves, and therefore we can't both be scum unless we are scum together, which i think is pretty clearly not the case.

like, because you're actually trying to puzzle out who could be scum with plus, you forgot to think about it from a town perspective?

no i guess that's dumb. the sentence is just missing an implied 'with Plus', which could equally just come from town Baltar thinking about who is partnered with Plus.

This extraneous fucking reach like iamausername has elastic arms is amazing but seems outside of scumrange just for the effort alone

[Klyne]

nd alternating between demonstrative suspicion of Titus and thinking she might be town

If I say someone is town then they're town, but until otherwise do not put words in my mouth fox

[DeasVail]

No reason to take a last minute flyer on a dicey counter wagon

What is so dicey about the counter-wagon though? I don't understand why this would be something scum-you wouldn't do.

[DeasVail]

why would she be mafia here? If she's anything, she's a wolf.

How much of the game have you read?

Seems like a weird discred to me

[Ahsoka]

why would she be mafia here? If she's anything, she's a wolf.

How much of the game have you read?

Seems like a weird discred to me

I felt like this too, because I believe I stated how much I read, I went back and was ISO'ing, and I quoted some earlier VP posts. I haven't read the entirety of the game, but I'm feeling how the game is right now. I know there was a big Titus vs Klyne feud.

[Titus]

Well this imploded.

[Titus]

End of 42 - Welcome IV.
Bulge putting me down as scum with no reasons when he puts reasons for everyone else is :stinkeye:.

[Titus]

Oh I forgot, his read of username is correct though.

[Titus]

bulge has never played with scum me but has played with both scum!plus and town!plus

and it’s easier to read me?

damn, my scumgame really is something awful huh

*insert post complaining about how multi ball scumhunting sucks and is different from normal scumhunting*

I lean fake but I can't tell whether this is melodrama or fake.

[Titus]

Obviously both IAAU and MC can't be scum here

...this kind of feels like a slip

I'm not following.

you know that neither of us are wolves, and therefore we can't both be scum unless we are scum together, which i think is pretty clearly not the case.

like, because you're actually trying to puzzle out who could be scum with plus, you forgot to think about it from a town perspective?

no i guess that's dumb. the sentence is just missing an implied 'with Plus', which could equally just come from town Baltar thinking about who is partnered with Plus.

This is stretchy as hell.

He's wrong. You are likely a wolf. MC is a mafia.

You trying to manufacture a "slip" is an attempt to increase the PoE. Town mostly recognizes each other now. There's only a couple spots left.

[Titus]

VP, Datisi, Klyne, DeasVail, Iamusername, Clidd

I want to start here.

Murdermeowmeow, I saw you town read a couple of these people strongly, but I didn't see any reasons for it.

Welcome. Too bad you're a mafia with Murdercat.