Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:09 pm
Well, when I originally was trying to set up being killed (when I claimed the roleblock), that was before you announced you wanted me dead. Walking into day 2, I was decently town read, and was "slipping" that I was an investigative. That is generally a good shot at getting killed.In post 1118, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I honestly don't know if this is real arrogance or scum bravado but the truth is you were never getting shot night 1 or 2 IMO.
I still feel like a potential 4 alignment reveals night 1 seems like too much. I guess less drastically so given the third party.In post 1118, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:the fact that you thought that ODD NIGHT WATCHER and ONE SHOT PARITY COP with Dwlee's cop thing was so unbalanced I will never fucking understand as a townie logic
Because it was completely unnecessary. You were sufficiently townread to potentially draw the NK tonight anyways at the point when the day started. You didn't need to broadcast information to scum (and yes, I'm assuming at this point that you're town, which factors into my annoyance) and you're the ones in control of your role information. If you're town, you know you're town. Barring mod info, that's more than you know about anyone else. It was just all so...pointless.In post 1112, The Bombay wrote:If you really are town, the I guess I am not sure why this anger is directed at me. I claimed an investigative role strategically trying to draw the night kill on the same night I would be unkillable. That does not burn anything to the ground.In post 1105, That Idiot Ivan wrote:I promise you, Lukewarm, I'm genuinely mad. You might have to wait for post-game or dead thread to confirm it, but trust me, I'm pissed as hell.
You're always so convinced that your perspective is the only possible one and that your purported logical conclusions and plans are the only way to go. Like, congrats, you're probably town; how much did you burn to the ground to get there?
Just because shit can fire night one doesn't mean it will. Your claimed investigative's existence and Dwlee's weren't guaranteed to be available. And circumstances exist where I wouldn't have used mine immediately.
Unless you are mad that I scum read you and didn't believe your claim, which also does not seem like the right way to approach this game.
But literally everything I revealed about my role that you seemed to think was a dumb thing to reveal, was me trying to get killed.
Up until LLD, who from your point of view should be confirmed town, pushed the rest out of me. Why are you not shouting at LLD?
Your anger feels misplaced. I said over and over that I did not want to claim the part of my role that was actually bad for me to claim.
It really didn't. I'm upset that you're trying to pretend like you knew that my investigative power wasn't incompatible with yours when you spent the entire time since my claim stating that I couldn't be a town role. This is probably a discussion to be had more productively post-game when we both know one another's alignments as a guarantee and aren't frustrated in the moment.The Bombay wrote:Hey, this probably applied to you when you got mad at me mentioning the roleblock. You didn't know I was a commuter. Gasp, turns out Luke did think that roleblock comment through, and you just didn't have all of the information.In post 1024, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Bombay, might I suggest you stop trying to sing the song of this game when you've only been given a handful of notes?
I think right now we're in a right state of confusion.In post 1136, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Do you think that with a likely 7:3:1 split we're in a good position to have all the info on the table? I'm doubtful that a morph game is that readily solved.
Okay, I'll sleep on it.In post 1139, That Idiot Ivan wrote:You know that Cabd and ffery are going to include something to punish town for giving scum free info. I don't think we're that confused at this point.
Like this. Makes a nice tale, easy to shrug and go 'oh well' when it gets a hole in it.In post 1008, mastina wrote:Oh it's probably StrangeMatter since this is scum theater here.In post 603, StrangeMatter wrote:Why was SirCakez concerning? I don't feel like you've ever elaborated on this and it's just not been talked about it.
It also is proof of why Ivan is scum btw; if SirCakez was so concerning, why was SirCakez not one of Ivan's targets?
Also, not that I expect a change of direction from this, but it amuses me and so I ask.In post 1005, mastina wrote:One of them is town, the other is scum, pretty much guaranteed.
About that...In post 1002, mastina wrote:If you believe jjh to be town you shouldn't be trusting Ivan to be town.
You are townlocking a slot that is hard-pocketing you as scum (Ivan via neighborhood).In post 1031, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:This slot is currently calling me confirmed town and trying to make wagons that include neither Shiro nor My vote.
Plurality rules mean we don't need all the town. We just need the scum to not all vote as one and not have three townies vote with them. With 11 alive and 3 scum, to get majority, scum need 3 townies to get to 6 votes.In post 1032, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:How can there exist a townie who both believes Shiro and I are town and believes they will achieve a scum elimination today without at least one of our votes onside?
SirCakez easily.In post 1044, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Okay, so let's play a game shall we.
Ivan Shiro Mastina you and I are off the table for today. In this hypothetical.
That leaves
Bombay
Rogue
SM
Cakez
T3
Suripoko
Who would you kill today and assuming they flip scum (so assuming you're right) who is scum with them?
It's not 100% certain, but it's at the very leastIn post 1033, StrangeMatter wrote:So I'm wondering, do you actually believe this is actually a theater that I would do as scum?
This should be a red flag to you, LLD, that Ivan is scum.In post 1064, That Idiot Ivan wrote:P-edit: JFC, why would you claim that if you're town?!? I don't even care about your alignment any more; my brain hurts from the bad choices and logic.
Back to here, then.In post 1053, The Bombay wrote:That being said VOTE: SirCakez since that is where jjh said he would go.
Look, 100 characters is a very hard limit, I tried the best I could to get as much in there as I could but I didn't really have a lot of maneuverability given the strict limit.In post 1081, jjh927 wrote:Oh, I'm the one who told Mastina I was investigative and can verify her role
I did try to hint in a post today that I was only investigative in an extremely broad sense, as I wasn't given a lot of options for things I cpuld claim
In post 1110, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I want a Mastina full claim next, please. Mastina can popcorn from there.
My full role is,In post 1119, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:There is a 0 percent chance that is her whole role.
Which told me, "no mason gambit"; "Investigative" "do not pass this information on to your N2 target".
Because Ivan is scum, faking a reaction in spite of Bombay literally doing what you asked them to do.In post 1095, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:No, this was the correct choice.In post 1093, That Idiot Ivan wrote:WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING?!?!?
Why are you being like this?
This is all well and good and all, but it doesn't change the core of why I think you're scum:In post 1101, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Once the day ends, my role targets two players to neighborize in one neighborhood. They get immediate access to post. I'm informed of who's been chosen, and then I decide if I want to use any of my powers. Yes, powers, plural. All are one-shot. Once I submit an action or declare I'm taking no action, I gain viewing access to the PT. I can post from then on if I choose, but if I've chosen to take an action, that action is blocked if I post before night ends/mods clear me. Neighborhood dissolves when the following day phase ends and the process repeats.
Key info there is that my parity cop is one-shot and I have no control over who gets targeted for my neighborhoods. Given info is stronger early game and both targeted players were on a town wagon flip, I opted to use the parity cop shot N1. Hence not being concerned about being blocked in the future. That isn't my only one-shot power, but it's definitely my best one.
Word choice IS important.In post 996, mastina wrote:And yet you said 'obnoxious' without saying 'scummy'.In post 783, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Even if I didn't reject your entire premise that I'm allowed to find something simultaneously scummy and obnoxious
If it was scummyandobnoxious, why didn't you SAY "scummy and obnoxious" or some variant thereof? You said 'obnoxious', and only obnoxious. You said nothing of the scumminess.
And this still holds. Yes, the lack of choosing targets negates the part about targeting LLD and Shiro specifically. However, the rest remains.In post 997, mastina wrote:I believe that Ivan's role was designed as a town role, so I believe the parity cop is real. But while I believe Ivan's realclaiming a parity cop, I don't believe Ivan is town from it.
I was planning on cheekily claiming if there was ever heavy suspicion on me, "I guarantee you that my role is a town one, I can mod-confirm it to be so". And then pointing this out. But since Ivan has claimed a Parity Cop, I need to point this out: there was a mod post saying "all roles are designed as town, and then modified as needed". (I can't find it, I think morph either edited it out or deleted it, but it was there during the pregame, everyone who checked the thread then can confirm. OH WAIT I found it.)Alignments are given AFTER roles are designed.In post 186, morph the cat wrote:Alignments will be randomized after the roles are initially designed,This ensures that subreddit flavor has no correlation with the alignment rolls. Any subreddit in the game can be any alignment.and roles will be revised as needed based on alignments.
You can have a Doctor, Cop, and Vig, all designed as town roles, end up as being scum roles--and then, still as the Doctor, Cop, and Vig, be modified as the Scum Doctor, Scum Cop, and scum Vig, to be revised as needed to make them be balanced.
So Ivan is probably truthfully claiming with the parity cop.
But lying by omission by leaving out the extras of the role. Rolecopping both individuals, roleblocking both individuals, redirecting/busdriving/something else both individuals, there's any number of hidden modifications to the role you can make where scum has incentive to use it.
Tell me--was there so much as a single player pushing Shiroat allon D1?
Because I'm pretty damn sure that not a single person was pushing Shiro on D1, and there was nobody even pushing Shiro on D2. Nobody pushing Shiro means that conftowning Shiro doesn't actually change the gamestate. Shiro was at no risk of being mislimmed here as town, LLD was at no risk of being mislimmed here as town; the result did nothing to change the gamestate.
Ivan as scum losesnothingfrom giving the result.
What does Ivan as scum gain from the result?
Whatever Ivan's extra beyond the parity cop is, for a start.
And then the pocketing of LLD (who is, as mentioned, strongly pushing) as well as Shiro.
In post 998, mastina wrote:I don't think it's fake either.In post 852, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I don't think it's fake. There's no reason to conf. town me as a parity cop in that way.
But there very much IS reason to "conftown" you (quotes, because you already were conftown).
All roles in this game weredesigned as town roles.
But then, after being assigned an alignment,adjusted based off of alignment.
There's literally half a dozen modifications to the role which could benefit the scum. Parity cop, but rolecops the targets to give scum the info. Parity cop, but roleblocks the targets to prevent them from acting. Parity cop, but loverizes the targets to allow for them to both die at the same time. Parity cop, but busdrives the targets. And so on and so forth. You don't know about them because Ivan isn't going to claim the scum addition to the town role, Ivan's only going to claim the original role.
Beyond that?
You were a top candidate for being nightkilled N1. The scum killed skitter N1 instead--but why did they not kill you N1? Because they were already targeting you with a role. You were targeted by a role and as such scum had reason to not kill you N1.
The parity cop helps pocket you, when you are already a strong pusher--you literally basically singlehandedly pushed through the Dwlee elimination. You pushed through ONE elimination; tell me, LLD: what stops scum from trying to pocket you in order to push through more?
In post 1000, mastina wrote:EVERY role in this game, every single one, was designed first as a town role. All 13 players received town roles.In post 997, mastina wrote:In post 186, morph the cat wrote:Alignments will be randomized after the roles are initially designed,This ensures that subreddit flavor has no correlation with the alignment rolls. Any subreddit in the game can be any alignment.and roles will be revised as needed based on alignments.
The three scum roles were, after being designed as scum roles, then modified based on alignment.
The modifications to the role would mean that the original, town-designed (and thus, town-appearing in a massclaim) role, would still look like town when claimed because it was town...but that the scum role would then have something extra beyond the claimed role.
In post 1002, mastina wrote:Realclaiming a mod-given role that has an extra effect that they didn't claim which pockets the player who singlehandedly forced through a Dwlee elimination sounds like pretty damn strong motivation to me.In post 926, SirCakez wrote:what is the motivation for Ivan to fakeclaim as scum here? it does nothing for them
While you might not have chosen to target LLD, you knew LLD was the target of your role--this disincentives you from killing LLD N1 and gives you incentive to keep her alive.In post 1003, mastina wrote:This is why Ivan is scum btw.In post 967, The Bombay wrote:Hell,I probably would have killed you over Skitter as well(but probably Rogue over you).You have actively and loudly pushedme in every single game we have ever played in together. I would rather not have you here to do that again if I really were scum and had a choice in who was here.LLD, who wrestles the thread hard to push through her scum reads, who in prone to scum reading me, and has already voiced suspicions on me, or Skitter, who is repeatedly defending me at every turn.
Bombay's reasons here aren't limited to Bombay.
Basically every player in the game has identical sentiments--LLD has loudly pushed. LLD wrestles the thread hard to push her scumreads. LLD is prone to scumreading scum. This, REGARDLESS of who is scum in the game. Add in that LLD was already obvtown, and the question becomes:who has motivation to keep LLD alive over skitter?
How about the person intending to hard-pocket her via a claim in a neighborhood of their creation who targeted her D1?
And this part? It actually getsIn post 1001, mastina wrote:You were under zero pressure D1 (and for that matter, D2).In post 915, Shiro wrote:If they are scum why pick me for that gambit?
If there were a push on you as scum D1, then conftowning you might lose something.
But with no push on you D1, conftowning you loses nothing.
Conftowning a player means that they go from mislimmable to not-mislimmable.
But if you were not going to be a mislim without a claim, then the conftown doesn't do anything.
Fun fact, Scum Neighborizer is one of the strongest roles in existence (in Normals, it literally has aIn post 915, Shiro wrote:It generally seems like a bad gambit and their interaction in our neighborhood seems genuine as hell.higher winrate than scum roleblockers, higher winrate than scum ninjas, higher winrate than scum strongmen), and the outcome of May and Brendan's Pokemon game is proof enough of that in action.
I wonder why?
(It's because pocketing people in neighborhoods as scum is ridiculously easy.)
I wish. That'd be a lot more fun and would allow me to blatantly copy your gambit from Animals UPick 2.In post 1121, jjh927 wrote:I did consider that she might be reflexive given I targeted her, though.
Well this confirms that either you've never played with me or that you're scum bullshitting because in the last three years?In post 1141, That Idiot Ivan wrote:More to the point, this reads as invested mastina-scum.
I said there was no way your claimed role was true.In post 1141, That Idiot Ivan wrote:And she latched onto the idea that my role was overpowered with surprising facility.
These don't contradict each other, they augment each other.In post 1141, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Add in the kissing up to LLD about how she was clearly the second choice for NK because she was so town for her Day One play, but yet the assumption that someone could pocket LLD in a neighborhood.
Because I am scumreading both of you but you clearly cannot be scum together.In post 1141, That Idiot Ivan wrote:I also don't like the way she set up those chained elims in the event that either Bombay or I flipped
Mastina, why are you simultaneously calling Ivan scum, but then also taking all parts of his claim at face value?In post 1145, mastina wrote:And this part? It actually getsstrongerwith a lack of ability to select your target.