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[vollkan]

Hell yes I predicted the Vollkan vigging.

Bow-chicka-bow-wow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Accomplished

[Yosarian2]

Lol @ the wiki war.

Anyway, not surprised to see Volkan get caught here. Good job, goat.

[Ren Hoek]

I believe vollkan. Vollkan is town.

Hurry up vollkan, who's the REAL scum? Help us find scum so that the town still has a chance to win even after that goatrevolt scumbag has vigged you! We can't do it without you. Halp!

Hehehhehhhhehhehe

[Budja]

Yes, I'm obviously not going to believe him. I'm not that stupid ,

I had a plan in place to maybe try to trap up Budja, but honestly, I'd rather just play this straightforward and not risk anything on a gambit. I like to play risky, but I simply don't think it's worth it here.

I had a feeling you were planning some gambit like this TBH.

[vollkan]

I believe vollkan. Vollkan is town.

Hurry up vollkan, who's the REAL scum? Help us find scum so that the town still has a chance to win even after that goatrevolt scumbag has vigged you! We can't do it without you. Halp!

Hehehhehhhhehhehe

Glad to see somebody has some sense

Goat is certainly scum.

Budja is very likely scum.

I don't know about the third. Possibly Yos/MSH or Ojanen

Yes, I'm obviously not going to believe him. I'm not that stupid

Why do you think it so inconceivable that Goat could be scum?

[Goatrevolt]

Why do you think it so inconceivable that Goat could be scum?

As I told you, that would be absolutely, totally, and in all other ways inconceivable!

[vollkan]

Why do you think it so inconceivable that Goat could be scum?

As I told you, that would be absolutely, totally, and in all other ways inconceivable!

Nothing in this game objectively precludes you from being scum, though. And I have personal proof-positive that you

are

scum - though, I know that it's going to take my death to prove it.

[Goatrevolt]

This is mafia. How often is someone objectively precluded from being scum?

Subjectively, though, it makes little sense that I'm scum:

1. The bus drive from day 1.
a. Confirmed Scot, the strongest power role as town.
b. Confirmed Ren Hoek, the player sitting at L-1 and a likely lynch as very likely town.
c. Caused the scum kill to fall on Seraphim, a suspicious and nonthreatening player, wasting its effectiveness.

2. I call you out when nobody else is pressuring you at all, and take the tracker role specifically because I think you're under the radar scum and want to test that theory.

3. I track you making the kill and claim it, setting myself up in a claim/counterclaim scenario. If I am scum, I'm a scum that everyone has as confirmed town. Why would I throw myself away to get you killed?

But yes, you're absolutely right...

objectively

I could be scum!

[vollkan]

1. The bus drive from day 1.
a. Confirmed Scot, the strongest power role as town.

Small price to pay for getting you semi-confirmed.

b. Confirmed Ren Hoek, the player sitting at L-1 and a likely lynch as very likely town.

Ditto.

Plus, the validity of this point is predicated upon Ren and yourself not being scum together.

c. Caused the scum kill to fall on Seraphim, a suspicious and nonthreatening player, wasting its effectiveness.

Ditto.

2. I call you out when you are under moderate though not lynchable suspicion from a large number of players, and take the tracker role specifically because you will be an easy lynch on day 3.

3. I say that I track you making the kill and claim it. I am scum that everyone has as confirmed town.

Why would I throw myself away to get you killed?

Fixed. And I'll answer the bolded question here.

Option A) There are more than 3 scum. Vigging me plus a scumkill would create a situation where scum auto-win. As such, you wouldn't actually be throwing yourself away at all - you'd just be capitalising on the gullibility of everybody else, including myself.

Option B) You cocked up badly. You were avoiding like the plague trying to name your fake "trackee" (me). If you could avoid naming the trackee, then when I died you could claim that the busdriver (Budja, who, given his highly suspected status, would be a viable sacrifice even if he is scum - though he needn't be for you to pull this strategy) was obviously scum. This would explain why you were so desperate to get the vig role initially (and I'd love to see how, in the QT, you persuade Budja to let you take vig) when, if you were town, it would clearly be optimal for you to take busdriver. You then claimed it was all "gambit" which is a pathetically easy bluff for scum to make in an effort to justify anything

[vollkan]

EBWOP. To explain further why Option B) is viable. If there are 3 scum then the strategy in question would drop the situation from 7:3 (current) to 4:3 where, subject to the role distribution on D4, scum could pull a quick-kill before a lynch occurs and thereby win the game.

[Goatrevolt]

I think we have different definitions of the word "small".

Option A) There are more than 3 scum. Vigging me plus a scumkill would create a situation where scum auto-win. As such, you wouldn't actually be throwing yourself away at all - you'd just be capitalising on the gullibility of everybody else, including myself.

While 4 scum isn't out of the realm of possibilities, if this was the case, why would I even bother to try to figure out the best way to use the role, etc? If I'm scum who's going to simply auto-win by hitting you with a vig shot, then why go through the song and dance?

Option B) You cocked up badly. You were avoiding like the plague trying to name your fake "trackee" (me). If you could avoid naming the trackee, then when I died you could claim that the busdriver (Budja, who, given his highly suspected status, would be a viable sacrifice even if he is scum - though he needn't be for you to pull this strategy) was obviously scum. This would explain why you were so desperate to get the vig role initially (and I'd love to see how, in the QT, you persuade Budja to let you take vig) when, if you were town, it would clearly be optimal for you to take busdriver. You then claimed it was all "gambit" which is a pathetically easy bluff for scum to make in an effort to justify anything

I initially was "desperate" to get the vig role because you wanted Budja to have the vig role.

I took the vig role without discussing it with Budja.

The gambit was to let Budja have the vig role, not claim publicly who I had tracked in order to bait Budja into trying to kill me if he's scum, and then protect myself with the bus driver role. In that case, by killing me, the knowledge of who I tracked would die with me, giving him possible scum incentive to try it.

I decided against doing it because If Budja or the scum killed the player on the other end of my bus drive the information would have actually died with me. As I said earlier, it simply wasn't worth the risk.

EBWOP. To explain further why Option B) is viable. If there are 3 scum then the strategy in question would drop the situation from 7:3 (current) to 4:3 where, subject to the role distribution on D4, scum could pull a quick-kill before a lynch occurs and thereby win the game.

This argument assumes Budja is town and I am scum, yet your stance is that Budja is scum with me. I know it's troublesome to keep that stuff straight.

Anyway, I don't know why I'm even bothering to go back and forth here. This discussion will be made pointless in 2 days.

[Ren Hoek]

So vollkan, tell us who you tracked!

[curiouskarmadog]

Updating game from about page 44.

When I examime the whole game, when I FEEL the game as a whole, I can tell that the town is being manipulated by scum. Specfically, that faction I was talking about, the accounting faction,, led by OGML, Ren, and CKD, is leading the town and consistnatly pushing in anti-town directions, and I doubt it's a coincidence. I am sure that there is scum there, and I'm almost sure it's CKD.

OMFG, Adel MANIPULATED the town in a anti-town direction....if I was leading shit anywhere, we would have lynched MS yesterday. I completely love how you gloss over that fact.
==

MSH, would you be willing to lynch Yosarian?

At this point in time, no. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that he's scum, I find myself agreeing with almost everything he says, I believe his stance of defending Adel is not one scum is likely to make, and he is the other member of my creative team.

curious, do you see yos following you in any manner? Do you think he is buddying with you in any way? Can you see how we think he is?

==

The FL lynch is horrible if people actually dig deeper into it. Had FL been scum, he would have switched me out before he was lynched.

exactly my point days ago.

==
Ok I am confused…did goat track vollkan as scum or not?

So vollkan, tell us who you tracked!

Wait what?

==
Also, not liking Budja’s, participation in this game lately.

==

[Korts]

(1) Goatrevolt- vollkan

not voting:

Ojanen, Ren Hoek, OhGodMyLife, curiouskarmadog, scotmany12, MichelSableheart, Goatrevolt, Budja, Yosarian2

six to lynch

Deadline is September 8th 6 PM EST

Morning actions will be resolved 24 hours early, due to my V/LA from 22 to 29. Send actions if you haven't done so yet. BM will take over modding duties during my absence, so be good, kids.

[Goatrevolt]

CKD: I tracked Vollkan-scum. Vollkan couldn't have tracked anyone because he's an account exec. Ren is just joking around.

[Ren Hoek]

CKD =/= scum

vote: Yosarian

[scotmany12]

We aren't lynching Yos today. Unvote.

[MichelSableheart]

Thank you very much, Goat, for taking the vig role, and for telling who you tracked. It makes analyzing things much better possible.

I'm still not going to comment on this till we have seen the vig kill. I want to have certain info about who is speaking the truth.

PS, sorry for the potential double post.

[MichelSableheart]

curious, do you see yos following you in any manner? Do you think he is buddying with you in any way? Can you see how we think he is?

I have already answered this. I see yosarian heavily defending me, and Adel before that. It is one of the main reasons I consider him pro-town, because I do not believe that yos-scum would have any advantage from buddying to me. It makes him look bad to the rest of the town, and it significantly hinders what looks like the most likely mislynch at this point in time. In return, he would get the support of a player that noone is very likely to listen to. I see too little a gain for scumyos buddying.

[MichelSableheart]

Michel, all of your theorizing yesterday about Ren scum and Goat scum was a huge, huge reach based on completely wack-tackular assumptions. Ren isn't scum today, he wasn't scum yesterday. I understand that you haven't really got any other options except trying to get these confirmed players to be less confirmed, but know for the future that it just makes you more obvious.

If Goat is scum, then all actions of both Ren and Goat together make perfect sense for a Ren-Goat team trying to get them both semi-confirmed. Goat scum -> Ren scum. No strange assumptions at all.

It seems you are mistaken in me. I am simply trying to figure out this game, which means taking into account all possibilities, especially those that are dismissed by town consensus without having been looked at properly.

---

Nothing but his actions in the very beginning of the game make sense from a protown point-of-view. The FL lynch is horrible if people actually dig deeper into it. Had FL been scum, he would have switched me out before he was lynched. His defense on Sens was ridiculous, and had no bases. Him not voicing his opinions makes absolutely no sense. Him calling me scum for attacking Sens made no sense, despite you Yos also did it, as well as CKD. Him actually ignoring me responding to his "points" against me makes no sense for a protown player. His vote on Sens definitely made no sense. He was pushing that sens play here is consistent with his protown meta. That doesn't just change Yos.

And then there is MSH, who's attack on Ren was based on a theory full of baseless assumptions, and his hammer on Sens when there was possible that discussion might have picked up.

Scot, please don't use the word baseless when it doesn't apply. Baseless means without foundation. Both Adel's defense of Sensfan and the assumptions in my theory about Ren Hoek had explanations given. You may disagree with those explanations, believe them not to be solid, call them ridiculous even. But do not act as if they aren't there at all. Because that's seriously misrepresenting me.

[Korts]

Day 3 Morning Meeting and Day 3 Working Hours flavour has been added.

[Ren Hoek]

We aren't lynching Yos today. Unvote.

So we leave the scum alive?

[Goatrevolt]

We aren't lynching Yos today. Unvote.

So we leave the scum alive?

That sounds like a foolproof plan. I'm regretting submitting the kill on vollkan now. I wish I had known about the whole keeping the scum alive plan ahead of time.

[Ren Hoek]

We aren't lynching Yos today. Unvote.

So we leave the scum alive?

That sounds like a foolproof plan. I'm regretting submitting the kill on vollkan now. I wish I had known about the whole keeping the scum alive plan ahead of time.

It's not my plan.

[Ojanen]

I felt Ren was scum at that time because I saw 2 scenario's, both relatively likely, in which Ren was scum. In one of these scenario's, Goat was scum. This did not imply that Goat was scum (after all, the Goat town scenario was also a good possibility), but I believed it was a possibility. Goat almost certainly being town removes half the basis of my suspicion of Ren. The other half of my suspicion is reason enough to still not consider him confirmed, but my suspicions have lessened enormously.

Michel, I'll note that you aren't making sense for me in this, in a scummy way, because of the elaborateness of those scenarios you spinned and the inconsistency here. You have now said that
-you thought there were too relatively likely scenarios, in one of which Goat was scum and in both of which Ren was scum (although the one with both scum you earlier )
-you have said you do in no way mean to imply Goat is scum
-but because Goat seems definite town even to you now, your suspicions of Ren have lessened enormously.

So Ren scum doesn't imply Goat scum, but Goat town implies Ren town. That doesn't make sense.

I haven't checked yet vollkan's relation to MSH/Yos thoroughly, but from skim, especially in the accouting quicktopic, so far Adel seems the better bet. There's one thing that really really makes me certain there must be scum in MSH/Yos pair that's tied to vollkan: in the surge of suspecting Adel/Yos in our qt he doesn't go with it. There is this common bonding made there over that suspicion, group spirit of people mutually thinking they're town, and it would be incredibly attractive for scum to embrace the gang if the targets where town. My intuition strongly says so because I haven't fully been together with them (switched from my initial stronger suspicion of Adel to Sens+vollkan) and I have kind of been secretly longing to give in to be even more a part of the team than now. If I was scum and the suspicion targets were town, I would embrace the group's suspicions from the bottom of my heart, and I don't think that's just a personality trait of mine.
The only thing that puzzles me is why the hell did a scumteam consisting of players of the caliber of vollkan+Adel/Yos target scotmany. But the same question results already from vollkan being scum, so it doesn't change much.

The situation with one of them having the cop ability is frustrating.
I'm having trouble pinning down a third scum. I'm of the school of thought that it's really less likely that they're both scum.

@scot: why do you think I'm scum?