Outwitted - Mini 1254 (Game Over)

[Fate]

Holy hell.

We just outed two town PRs and Fate being VT.

This is amazing.

Well something worked

[Fate]

Grey actually thought his red text was true when he wrote it.
He didn't intend for it to be a lie; he worded it creatively.

He said he was the TOWN bulletproof, that was a lie

[Llamarble]

No, he never said town fwir.

[Fate]

Well.. he said I wasn't the bulletproof so theres that

[Llamarble]

Yeah, that's the thing he thought was true but wasn't.

I was seriously going to shoot you on a 1.
I was just :that: sure we couldn't have both a bulletproof and a backup.

[Darox]

But.

The setup CONFIRMS there is a TOWN bulletproof, so you knew 100% that Fate was telling the truth.

[Llamarble]

No, we thought Seraphim was the bulletproof. We were like 99% sure of this.

[GreyICE]

You... Have not played with fate often.

He'd totally counterclaim bulletproof as vt.

[Darox]

But.
That's really dumb.

How does that even work?
He came out of the gates claiming a guilty on GreyICE.

[Darox]

So was the idea being that Seraphim was a bulletproof mason with Fate or something equally absurd?

[Llamarble]

Here's what we thought happened:
Seraphim, bulletproof, sees an even number of players and wants to attract the kill.
He's also convinced of Greyscum, so he claims a guilty to draw a kill and get a lynch.
We have Grey CC bulletproof thinking this is what's going on.
Fate futzes around for awhile and basically claims VT, then finally claims bulletproof since he sees what's going on.

[Fate]

I would have yes, given how obvscum Grey was and how obvtown Sera was.

[Llamarble]

In retrospect, crazy, but I saw it as impossible that there could be a backup after all the other power.

[Darox]

The only way that would work is if GreyICE claimed before Seraphim did and that clearly wasn't the case.

Plus Seraphims claim was 100% rock solid obvious truth.

[Fate]

To SpyreX

An Oration

Looking at the wagon, I think it's fairly obvious that Llamarble is scum(two bulletproofs more likely than one BP and a backup my ass) and CES was really just looking at an excuse to put me at L-1 and was fence-sitting until he was sure that I was going to die.

So that means that you, sir, SpyreX, are the only town player currently on my wagon. This means that you are the only person I can even bother to convince, who hasn't been caught in the lies and GreyICE's silver tongue. I'm not the greatest player of this game and I will freely admit it with no shame, just a tinge of disappointment in myself. Alas, it is clear that the 1v1 with GreyICE was not to my advantage. GreyICE is famed throughout the site for his combination of Fate's agression and Yosarian's logic and reason, while I am famed for...being controversial? For getting wagons on me, no matter my alignment? Certainly not for catching scum. No one has ever called me a player among the greats. Especially in my early history, I had a tendency of flaking. But I digress.

GreyICE is scum. I am town. I cannot make it easier to understand or comprehend.

I am the third proposed lynch that comes solely from setup speculation, not any sort of actual scumhunting. Do you honestly believe that there are two bulletproofs in this game? Do you honestly believe this situation is more likely than a bulletproof and a backup, and an incredibly weak one at that?

Scum would tell you that there is "too much town power". This is ridiculous and fallacious to the extreme. You of all people should know that the power roles in this game just aren't as strong as they should be. Two trackers in a game where everyone is a power role? Even Yos's supposed stronger version is still weak when it comes to detecting actual scum. A doctor who will probably fail? The cop is literally the only role who is hardest to block but even he can be killed. Ditto on the even-night vig. And of course, the bulletproof. All of these are roles that lose their power and effectiveness especially when claimed.

Wait?

What did I just say?

Especially when claimed?

Which player has been pushing for a mass claim, SpyreX? Which player thought he could get away with outing all the town power roles in an attempt to weaken them immensely? Since DAY FUCKING 1?

GreyICE.

Which player jumped on an incredibly fake looking soft cop result despite a flipped cop already? GreyICE.
Which player disregarded a counter claim on his "bulletproof" and even agreed with the postulation of "two bulletproofs is more likely than a bulletproof and a backup" to avoid a 1v1 with Fate? GreyICE.

What did I do wrong? What did I do to deserve this? I'm not good enough to finish this! If Fate is my supposed scumbuddy, how come HE didn't do the cop result? Why wasn't FATE our ace in the hole? I am not a good player, SpyreX! Why do I even play? I get so caught up in it, I get so excited, that I finally had a guilty result...I should have waited...goddamn.

I don't want town to lose.
That would be the worst...to let scum push another "lol setup spec" lynch rather than observing play.
Let them argue semantics all night long but this is the truth.
I am town.
I am the backup.
I have a guilty result on GreyICE.
It doesn't get ANY simpler than that.
Even though the scumteam knows who the backup is, they think they can get away by piling onto me and ending it today. Which means that a scumteam
This is a 4-4 split which means that someone needs to change sides.
The scumteam isn't changing anytime soon.
Fate, Darox, or I aren't changing anytime soon.
Which means that it boils down to you or Zang.

In his next posts, I suspect that GreyICE will try to appeal to Zang in a complete 180 to what he has said previous to now. He will throw everything out the window because he needs the vote of someone on the GreyICE wagon. But you have the chance to end it. You have the chance to join us here and begin the redemption process of this game. You can save the town, SpyreX. I believe you can do it.

Be the change.
Be the hammer.
Save the world.

P-EDIT: HAHAHAHAHA see SpyreX? Look at that. Look at that. Just as I said he would. He's even appealing to Darox! He's desperate. So confident before. He's scum, SpyreX!

I don't know how anyone could vote this guy

[zoraster]

Clarification question if I happen to target say a cop or a roleblocker etc.. and my card is higher I can track them as well correct not just the killer?

Eitherwar I target dorax and use my 6 card

Yeah. You track anyone. I was just showing that if the mafia kill is higher than your card, you won't track them to the kill. But if say darox is the tickler and you visit him to Zoraster, you'll see that.

From Lurc's question, it's pretty clear he's got a wrong notion about what his role does and your answer doesn't really address it. That seems like tacitly supporting his understanding of the role to me.

Maybe. As I said, I can understand how he misunderstood it, but without him asking me to clarify it further, I was kind of stuck. Otherwise it would have been me saying "oh hey, wait wait wait. You and Yos are BOTH town, silly." I certainly didn't intend to mislead him, whatever the result was.

for what it's worth, and I know I'll take some flak for this, but I've nommed GreyICE for cunning manipulator. I think insofar as that award is really meant for someone who manipulates people into doing something, GreyICE really succeeded in doing that.

Getting Spyre to vote for the wrong person is scummyworthy?

Sure. I'll leave it to the judges whether he deserves the actual scummy, but his play here was very good. I'm not stingy with nominations, and I see no reason others should be either.

There wasn't any possibility of us running out of points on the last day anyway because of our theft-power, so I wasn't worried about that at all.

Yeah, but your target had to have cards left for the theft power to work.

[Llamarble]

VTs take until like D10 to run out of cards. We'd have time to check everybody.

[zoraster]

In retrospect, crazy, but I saw it as impossible that there could be a backup after all the other power.

I had the benefit of omniscience, but I see your theory as plausible. Just probably not so certain.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Clarification question if I happen to target say a cop or a roleblocker etc.. and my card is higher I can track them as well correct not just the killer?

Eitherwar I target dorax and use my 6 card

Yeah. You track anyone. I was just showing that if the mafia kill is higher than your card, you won't track them to the kill. But if say darox is the tickler and you visit him to Zoraster, you'll see that.

From Lurc's question, it's pretty clear he's got a wrong notion about what his role does and your answer doesn't really address it. That seems like tacitly supporting his understanding of the role to me.

Maybe. As I said, I can understand how he misunderstood it, but without him asking me to clarify it further, I was kind of stuck. Otherwise it would have been me saying "oh hey, wait wait wait. You and Yos are BOTH town, silly." I certainly didn't intend to mislead him, whatever the result was.

I'm just talking about the PM Lurc sent. Obviously you can't respond to what he said in-thread.

[zoraster]

oh, i know. But i didn't realize he misunderstood me until he posted in thread.

[Llamarble]

I feel a little like LLD and Darox need to work on their campaining.
Both are respectable readers, but even :I: never found out why LLD thought I was scum.
A little casemaking just so others can see how you got where you got can go a long way.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I feel a little like LLD and Darox need to work on their campaining.
Both are respectable readers, but even :I: never found out why LLD thought I was scum.
A little casemaking just so others can see how you got where you got can go a long way.

I don't have the patience to deal with

the inevitable outcome of Walls and cases.

this game anymore.

[Llamarble]

Why did you think I was scum LLD?
I'd like to be less obvscum in the future if I can.

[Darox]

Why GreyICE was scummy: A retrospect
#1: This

Why Llamarble was scummy: A retrospect
#1: That

At the end of the day it was two obv-scum versus too-good-to-be-lying Seraphim, and I was pretty disappointed in CES & Spyrex.
I mean really, it was Lla-'Town is overpowered'-marble and Grey-'Trying to out all the powerroles'-ICE versus Sera-'Shining golden halo'-phim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also who would've killed Fishy?
I could definitely see Yos doing it considering Dilemma Mafia.
And I'd expect most other people to kill Yos or Spyrex or maybe Grey.

VOTE: Yos
Oh, I also have a secret reason but we'll see if that pans out.

This is a bad post.