Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Oversoul]

Having no one but myself to blame doesn't mean I didn't spend two nights (due to the crash--had to redo pretty much everything on the site) updating stuff, and then trying to patch up my fail sleep schedule + other stuff. You have no one but yourself to blame for work, yet you also use it as an activity crutch, so lay off--there's evidence everywhere that I was busy.

As for being "this bad", that is tremendously rich coming from someone whose largest contribution to the game yet was today, the 27th. I have been sharing and discussing reads when I have them, and if you can't be bothered to read my posts where this is painfully evident, well, that is your problem, not mine, and you "have no one to blame but yourself". Unlike some people I could name, I HAVE been scumhunting.

This is exactly what I am talking about.

You go into these explanations about why you are not present when you could simply say... you're busy. That is the crutch I am talking about. I don't understand why you feel the constant need to reassure people you'll be around and that you haven't forgot about the game when you're Tierce. We all (mostly) know you take this very seriously. Which is also why I put in pointed words and phrases to ruffle your fur. We know you'll get around to it eventually, unless you are scum. Your repetitive "crutch" made me think you felt self-conscious about your overall activity and appearance in the town, a trait that I haven't associated with your town play.

re: the bad, I wasn't the one who tried to steer away a scum lynch onto a lurker. Bad was about as general a description of your play as I could give. I did not like the fact that you came into today saying "All my suspects are dying, hehe". I thought that was bad.
I did not like your reasoning for going after Zach. That was bad. I did not like your reasoning from moving away from a Zach wagon. That was bad. I did not like the fact that you gunned for hp on two days. That was bad.

I don't mean it as a characteristic of you personally, Tierce. I just meant thus far I did not like your play and you hadn't done anything up to this point to make me think you were likely town. I hope you don't take my words personally. I do it in the hopes that you take a look at your own play and in the hopes that I will get the reaction I want from you.

[fferyllt]

Was considering sheeping MattP's list and voting either SoO or implosion (the latter of which would mess with my somewhat discredited Pjo filter). Implosion proposing the same makes me feel that the idea is squiffy.

Lol.
You have two options: either i'm town, in which case me saying that the list is a good thing to think about does not make it "squiffy," or i'm scum, and mattp's list contains scum.

Or pursuing it is chasing a well paved wifom trail.

[Tierce]

Oversoul:

Of course I'm self-conscious about my absence. I don't like being inactive, I don't like leaving people hanging, and I don't want to be away from the game when the deadlines are as they are without a damned good explanation. Heck, I'm going to PaizoCon in a week and if I'm alive at the time I intend to let people know when I'm available or not. I explained things in all games I was in when I went to Scotland/Ireland, did the same when I was in transit to the States, etc. Since when is explaining absences *bad*? It's not like I haven't been picking at this game every single day, but some days I actually need sleep and I want people to know WHY I'm not around because these things are FACTS that occupy certain slots of my day. What is more, when I said I was busy and it should be obvious How and Why I was busy, your reply was "how am I supposed to know that". So... damned if I do, damned if I don't?

I've explained my read on Zach and how it makes NO SENSE for me to keep pushing a scumread when it is no longer a scumread. It's absurd. I move on to other targets. He did something I considered Townish, I move on. Lather, rinse, repeat. Damned if I tunnel, damned if I don't?

My suspects/paranoia targets get NK'd and flip vanilla. Heck, I'm ecstatic I don't have to worry about them anymore, and I don't care what you think of my opinion. No PR losses and my paranoia dealt with so I can focus on other people. Damned if I whoop--oh, wait.

As for scumreading hp, yeah, I did. And I was also the one who tried to slow down the lynch as much as possible. He flipped Town. WTF is your problem? I'm suddenly not allowed to have wrong reads? It's not even like I'm letting that demotivate me, so, again, /lay the hell off/. You know who has/had a stupidly bad scumread? You, on me. Is this acceptable? Yeah, I guess, though I'm damn sure not going to let you lynch me (good luck with that). But acting like having bad reads makes me scum? Geez, it's like I have a 100% SWA (and no one told me? someone is meanier than Syryana). I'm trying my damndest and now you're BoPing me. Yaaaay.

...I should tether my phone and stop with the masochistic behavior of typing rant posts on my phone.

[Zdenek]

I really wish that I had something close to a reasonable read on either SoO or Implosion.

[Tierce]

I really wish that I had something close to a reasonable read on either SoO or Implosion.

Same. I

think

s_o_o is Town, but if pressed I have no real good reason behind this. implosion I have no clue. All in all, I think I have too many Townreads.

In light of hp [leaves]'s flip, how do you think Amrun's theory of "the ghost-voter was protecting hp [leaves]-scum" reflects on her alignment?

[Zdenek]

Probably it doesn't.

Since MattP's flip, there was basically no way scum was getting lynched yesterday, so it's not like if she's scum she had a reason make up bs to get a lynch through that she needed or wanted.

[Zdenek]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

[Tierce]

Mhm. Good point, Zdenek.

Gah, I need to reread.


Also, while I'm whinging some more:

I really wish that the minor reset didn't happen because I was waiting for her to comment on Katsuki trying to attribute Fate's play to MattP which was literally what Tierce's whole argument hinged upon when she was going after Zach but was actually the correct application of the point she was trying to make. But you know, I can't have nice things. I was trying to make oblique hints at that post earlier in the day waiting to see if Tierce would ever take the bait

My memory of anything I didn't quote at the time/didn't mention was utterly dashed. I spent the crash time going "oh god I hope my work isn't gone please make it not be gone

zzzz

is it gone--it is ._.". So, sorry, but no hints would lead me there and I've already shown that your oblique attempts at getting my attention lead nowhere useful.

You're saying that Katsuki was trying to pin Fate's meta on MattP? From what I saw/remember/have to go reread, he was more saying it in the sense of "you're part of a list of players I gut-read" than "you're doing things like Fate-scum".


On an off-the-cuff thing that has been niggling me for the past hours: I think MattP's death incriminates Katsuki--did he think he couldn't get MattP lynched and/or fear it was a fakeclaim, thus choosing to take him down? Tammy has been away, Syryana is all the way over there with fferyllt, I've been pretty much brain-dead and I'm Kats's comfy wagon choice... MattP makes sense as a potentially dangerous player to take down when there's no visible chance of getting him lynched and the wagon attempt has grown stale.

This feels like a lot of tinfoil--was the wagon really stale, when he was a competing wagon on scum Yesterday? I keep going back to the claim and how scum might have thought it was a fakeclaim. MattP likes to gambit like that.

Back after noms.

[Amrun]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

I've been waiting for this to get addressed organically, but now that Zdenek has asked, it's out of the bag.

Syryana, a town flip from hp should have increased your suspicion of ffery according to yesterday. It didn't. I want to know why.

(For the record, I was going to vote ffery out of the gate today but decided I wanted to watch this develop instead without influencing it.)

I have some recent posts to review but I'm too tired.

[fferyllt]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

That's a fact not in evidence.

[Tammy]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

I've been waiting for this to get addressed organically, but now that Zdenek has asked, it's out of the bag.

Syryana, a town flip from hp should have increased your suspicion of ffery according to yesterday. It didn't. I want to know why.

(For the record, I was going to vote ffery out of the gate today but decided I wanted to watch this develop instead without influencing it.)

I have some recent posts to review but I'm too tired.

*TWITCH*

I'm not really here. Apparently one of my flights is delayed tomorrow and their automated system doesn't know better than to NOT call at 4am. Night where I finally get sleep? Just kidding.

OS's reasoning for suspecting tierce is kinda silly, but I think it makes him more likely town. I think anyway, maybe. I'll try to sort it out tomorrow, which apparently I'll have more time to do sitting in airports.

I'll answer katsukis question then too. Until then...cupcakes.

[Vi]

~Vote Count XXXVII

Katsuki (3) ~ Zdenek, Tierce, Oversoul
Tierce (1) ~

(Oversoul,)

Katsuki

Not Voting:

fferyllt, implosion, Amrun, sword_of_omens, Syryana, Tammy

--With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
--Deadline is 07:00 EDT on June 29, 2013.

(This is your last day!)

[Zdenek]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

That's a fact not in evidence.

We have three days to get a lynch through, and he's not working on one that he should want, so yes, it is.

[fferyllt]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

That's a fact not in evidence.

We have three days to get a lynch through, and he's not working on one that he should want, so yes, it is.

He's not really doing anything in the thread yet. I have no idea if he's going to pick up where he left off near the end of day 2, but the fact that he's kept a steady course on my alignment after earlier hiatus this game leads me to expect that he will.

[fferyllt]

zdenek is there more reasoning/case behind your vote?

Come now you can't be serious.

I remember you knowing full well what antagon flipped before the board crashes.

How does this comment not come with a Syryana vote?

Mind as well hammer and get to discussing other stuff tonight.

This looks like an attempt to fake a town-tell - to like he didn't have knowledge about the no night time before it happened.

[fferyllt]

It really confuses me that you and oversoul both have made cases for Tierce being scum, but are both voting katsuki.

[fferyllt]

and in fact are on the same bandwagon with Tierce.

[Zdenek]

zdenek is there more reasoning/case behind your vote?

Process of elimination.

I think his failure to vote Syryana is quite damning - if I'd caught someone who I thought was blatantly changing their opinion of an event to fake a town tell, I'd vote them forever because there is basically nothing scummier.

When it comes to Tierce, while it's possible that she is scum, my reasons for thinking that she is scum actually do point in both directions because her changes of stance on Egg/Antagon were so awkward that it's hard to see them as being made by a buddy, so I'm putting that on the back burner.

I also think that people (like SoO and Implosion) who's posts make it impossible to get a read on them have a higher chance of flipping scum than people who's interactions with scum point to them being buddies (the latter thing scum can try to avoid, but the former is beneficial for them), so I'd vote there before voting for Tierce - with a strong lean towards voting for Implosion over SoO.

[sword_of_omens]

Sorry about yesterday, I left work early yesterday for private screening of the Russell Crowe movie “Noah”…
It was strange to say the least...bible thumpers will most likely have a problem with it…


Anyway,.i was really expecting a scum flip from hp, and that it would bullet proof my scum read of Ffery, but now I really don’t know..I went back and looked at ffery again, and now I’m thinking she’s most likely town...factoring into that is Matt’s kill…he claimed VT already…so why would scum kill a VT when there are lots of other unclaimed players out there? Ferry would not have benefitted from this, seeing as Matt only added her on his list as a “possible” scum because he saw her as “town”, and not “surefire town”…she would have no reason to be worried about Matt…same goes for OS, he was on the list for the same reason as ffery..i really don’t see why either of them would kill a claimed VT when there should be other priorities out there..and with hp gone, this narrows his list down to really only two people:
Me and Implosion…as far as Matt’s NK goes, this makes the most sense to me… and seeing as how people are saying that they don’t have a read on me or implosion, this might be the best avenue to explore...

Meanwhile...the Katsuki wagon … I don’t think he is scum..he has been chasing Matt as scum all game, and yesterday Matt stated that he took him off of his scum list...why then would he kill a claimed VT over possible PR’s out there, especially when he just gave him a town read?
It doesn’t make sense..

Vote: Implosion

I know that there’s not a lot of daylight left for today (approx 15 hrs if I did the math right?) but I don’t think Kats is the way to go today…and I think this has the best chance of hitting scum…


i should have time today to be able to answer anything directed at me...

PEDIT: Zd...ninja

[fferyllt]

zdenek is there more reasoning/case behind your vote?

Process of elimination.

I think his failure to vote Syryana is quite damning - if I'd caught someone who I thought was blatantly changing their opinion of an event to fake a town tell, I'd vote them forever because there is basically nothing scummier.

When it comes to Tierce, while it's possible that she is scum, my reasons for thinking that she is scum actually do point in both directions because her changes of stance on Egg/Antagon were so awkward that it's hard to see them as being made by a buddy, so I'm putting that on the back burner.

I also think that people (like SoO and Implosion) who's posts make it impossible to get a read on them have a higher chance of flipping scum than people who's interactions with scum point to them being buddies (the latter thing scum can try to avoid, but the former is beneficial for them), so I'd vote there before voting for Tierce - with a strong lean towards voting for Implosion over SoO.

Tierce discounts your interpretation of the second post, but has other reasons for voting katsuki. Reasons I've tried to follow, but can't bring into focus.

I play a pretty meta-heavy game. This game has given me a sense of how frustrating my play might be to players who either don't share the experiential meta or find it difficult to meta-read old and cold game threads.

I'm basically at a point where I want to figure out which of my town reads are making the most sense/are in agreement and follow their votes. I have you, Syr, Tammy, Tierce, and Amrun (mostly on the basis of my Pjo read) as various degrees of town. At least two of them are/have misread me which makes me a little suspicious about their other reads. Two (or more?) of them are involved in cross-FoSes.

Your thoughts about SoO and implosion resonate because I've PoEd to the same conclusion.

[Amrun]

Oh god i forgot how soon this day might end.

Katsuki... I noticed a similar thing when I didn't understand why Katsuki wasn't voting for mattP when he "assumed" Matt was the double voter. Katsuki did eventually vote for Matt. This immediately made me suspicious but some later stuff katsuki did made me feel better -- this was all eaten in the crash.

I was waiting to hear Katsuki's answers to the lack of Syryana vote -- but he didn't fold to pressure this time. (If he answered these, I missed it.)

I wanted to see if he'd fold again, and had a pet theory he was scum if he did, but he didn't so now I'm conflicted. I don't oppose the katsuki wagon, because not voting in those situations still makes no sense to me from a town perspective, but, all in all, I'd rather...

VOTE: ffery

The ffery/Syryana interaction reads very much like scum on town -- though which side of it is scum i keep flip flopping on. Matt pushed ffery (though inconsistently) and I've had overall more problems with Her all game, so I would rather pursue ffery.

I also think at least one of the scum is a more experienced player, because that ghost hammer on Antagon really set up suspicion on one of Matt or hp or both. Matt's following death made me think this more, like they realized after hp town flip he wouldn't be lynched. Hp was obviously a frame job but you don't let that sort of wifom live without very good reason. (Actually, I think it was more likely meant to frame Matt, but who knows really.)

Matt's reputation being what is, I'm not too concerned about his list. It should be considered but not used as a bible.

[sword_of_omens]

@MOD -

going to be V/LA for the weekend in about an hour or two...
due to the deadline, i plan on stopping off at a coffee shop tonight to address anything from my phone..

[Tammy]

Real quick on plane.

Realized what's bothering me about amrun. She seems to be selectively applying scumminess.

Mostly a reminder. Have to turn off phone now.

It does seem to be what she is doing.

I can't tell if you're legit intimately agreeing with me or subtly fanning suspicion.

I don't have a whole lot of time or brain power, but where I was going with this was just an odd feeling of where amrun seemed to be buddying up to people/making really weird and awkward attacks.

Also, as an aside, or maybe not really, can I say how much I absolutley detest the inclusion of so many words capitalized int he middle of sentences? Don't look at me that way. I know it's meant for emphasis, but it doesn't feel like its done organically. Like its meant to show force for an argument she doesn't believe but wants people to think she does because capital letter deniote FEELING.

I also hate the "you do this as both alignments". For one when it was used on me, it was so laughable in that she has no idea what she's talking about but acted like she knew me better than I know me. I mean I know she this she's Santa, but any perusal of my scum games shows she doesn't have a clue.

And that brings me to her attacking me for appeal to buzzthority for something she clearly didn't understand but refused to acknowledge. But note, that zach was using a similar argument with Me and tierce. He asked tierce how well she knew his meta. When I started to doubt my town read he told me to go back and reread our game when he was scum to see the difference. What did amrun think about zach? Could not be more obviously town.

She criticizes tierce for selective reading, but doesn't realize that she's done the same thing. This just could denote lack of self-awareness and a need to not be seen as misunderstanding, but I digress.

Her argument with tierce bugged me in a gut level. Tierce was self metaing on why some things she was doing made her more likely town. What's her response? To say that the more It makes her look town the less sure she believes it. Let's see who else was self metaing and saying their behavior made them more likely town? Oh Matt. Did amrun have a problem with that? Nope, Matt was super town.

I hated the post in which she suggested voting ffery at the start of day would be an influence. I might have to check, but I really don't see anyone in this game just following amrun, so I don't get where this heightened sense of ego is come from, and it reads fake. Also, syryana made it quite clear that he still suspected ffery, but Matt flipping town put a wrench in part of his read on her. I mean it's right there. I'm barely following the game and am on such a severe lack of sleep it's not even funny, and I caught that.

I also don't like her recent vote for ffery. I think that ffery is more likely town, and it looks to me like she's trying to distract from an implosion or a katsuki lynch. (I'm not sure about a katsuki scum read though.)

Okay so some of this might not be alignment relevant. It just may be that aspects of her playstyle bug me and I'm reading her as fake and attempting to force her way into a,leadership position as scummy. I don't think I've ever played a full game with her, so I wouldn't know, and unlike amrun I don't pretend to know someone's meta when I clearly don't, so it could just be things I need to grow accustomed to, but I do think there are lots of scummy elements to her play.

I don't even know if that made sense. I think my plane is finally about to start boarding, so I'll have to wait to get to some more of this later.

[Tammy]

Very very quickly skimmed.

There are two things I'm sure of in this game. Zdenek is town and tierce is town, and I want my bonnet back. I'm more sure of tierce. In fact I'll just cry if I'm wrong, that's how sure I am. And then empire can laugh at me and taunt me for not reading her right, but at least I was right about the dr who game and he was wrong so nanananana. But I very seriously doubt I'm wrong.

Anyway, I digress, and I'm now so sleep deprived my own thoughts don't make sense to me.

Syryana - I *might* be around for a little bit tonight. I just got done with a 5 hour interview, and am going to play tourist and relax a bit. If I don't immediately pass out, I might actually catch up tonight...otherwise I'll catch up tomorrow when I'm on planes/sitting in airports.

Why are they town... I dunno about Zdenek but I disagree with tierce.

OkAy apparently I'm hearing things and have a little more time.

Zdenek just reads town.

Tierce just is town.. The only thing that made me wonder about tierce was an early town read from her. I remember in yoloville her being a little more cautious giving both empire and me town reads and here it was quite quick. But like tierce I think my scum and town play are worlds apart, and she's seen me as scum before and as town a lot. There was also the early appeal to me to see her as town. That "hi, Tammy, can you hurry up and recognize the obvious so we can work together" read really really town. It's just something that I don't think she'd say as scum the way she did, or how she did with zach when she insisted she was bleeding towniness. She knows that I have a tendency to get paranoid of people, even friends and people I can read well late game and I think as scum shed go about appealing to me Ina different way or maybe not at all. And her statement that she'd kill me I think is true. It's true that I'm not really active and quite distracted, but when I am like this I tend to focus on people I can read well and go from there, so me not being active right now wouldn't be a reason to leave me alive especially when I'm alive to late game I tend to start scrutinizing everything. I also thought the "I dreamt Tammy took back her town read on me, no dream bonnet for her" read really genuine. I doubt very seriously she's partnered with antagon anyway, her self meta makes sense. She's not a sloppy player and knows when to cut ties with a partner, and why wouldn't she an unroled? It makes no sense to be sloppy so you can self meta, when she could have grabbed town cred by bussing at a good time, and tierce is smart enough to know when to do that.

Okay that was a lot of rambling to explain a town read that's not in danger.

I'll keep reading until my plane lands. I still plan to vote implosion, but I need to do something other than quickly skim before I lay down that vote.

I wish I had more time and had been paying more attention earlier, and I know I said I'd vote hpleaves but some of the reasoning for him being scum was complete trash. I can't believe someone actually argued that he was distancing himself from his own opinions by using another players tell. That's complete bs.

[Tammy]

Heck, I'm going to PaizoCon in a week

J.E.A.L.O.U.S.