Mini 423: Calvin & Hobbes - GAME OVER!
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When it *really* boils down to it, I still don't think that either Thok or Pooky are scum, and I don't see you being lynched today.
I don't really see how that's a change in stance. In my last post, I basicaly said "I'm confused, and I have sucked this game" but there was an implicit "LmL is at the top of my list" based on this:
I don't really see how that's a change in stance. In my last post, I basicaly said "I'm confused, and I have sucked this game" but there was an implicit "LmL is at the top of my list" based on this:
I'm just finally manning up and acting on that inkling.Glork wrote:Pretty much everyone has done something that I just really don't like, at one point or another, but VitR/Thok/PJ have also done things that I had marked as distinctly protown.
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So, apparently you claim to be town, claim that I'm scum, and claim that I'm the only scum left? (Otherwise, your last paragraph doesn't make sense).LoudmouthLee wrote:Wrong, of course, but I am far too tired of repeating myself to again steer this town into thinking clearly. It's an absolute pity that you'll be down another pro-town player.
Thok is scum. Remember that tomorrow.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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I am innocent. Thok voted me. There was not throng to lynch me. Therefore, I know the following things:Mod wrote:Players (alive):
Glork (replaced foobardog) - Tyrannosaurus Rex
LoudmouthLee (replaced PBuG) - Tracer Bullet
PookyTheMagicalBear (replaced petroleumjelly) - Snowman
Thok - Captain Napalm
VitaminR (replaced AniX) - Safari Al
#1) There
may or may not
be more than one scum, but I am 95% certain that we have ONE scum. (Until everyone checks in again, and that includes Pooky's threat to vote me, which he SHOULDN'T).#2) If we have two scum, Thok is 100% scum. I know my alignment here. Thok put a vote on me, and then no one followed suit until Glork did.. It's probably Thok and Glork.
Let's look at the Emptyger Vote Count at the lynch scene:
Think about it... I know from MY prospective that Thok has a greater chance of being scum out of ANYONE else in the game.EmpTyger: 4 (Machiavellian-Mafia VitaminR LML spectrumvoid)
Machiavellian-Mafia: 3 (Thok Glork EmpTyger)
spectrumvoid: 2 (petroleumjelly AutumnEvenings)
"LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
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Assuming that you are protown, this is sort of correct, but it ignores the fact that if there is only one scum, the voting records/lack of lynch don't tell us anything and it relies on an "I know my alignment" argument which makes it worthless to everybody else. You comments also suggest you know there's going to be a tomorrow, which I claim is not completely obvious if you are town. And it ignores the completely symmetric argument I have wth you.LoudmouthLee wrote:Think about it... I know from MY prospective that Thok has a greater chance of being scum out of ANYONE else in the game.
I mean, by the same argument, I know you have to be scum if there are two scum as the only scum group that couldn't lynch you yet from my point of view is Pooky/Glork, and they had multiple chances to lynch me today.
I'm not impressed by your participation. It's notable that VitR is defending you more vigourously then you are. (This is meant as a criticism of LML's lurkerness/lack of input, as opposed to a criticism of VitR's play).
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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One of Thok / Glork (really look at that vote count) is linked to EmpTyger.
If there were only two of you, losing half of your scum team on D1 is CATASTROPHIC.
Please. Metagame with your heads.
Thok is scum. It could be Glork, but I really think it's Thok.
If there were only two of you, losing half of your scum team on D1 is CATASTROPHIC.
Please. Metagame with your heads.
Thok is scum. It could be Glork, but I really think it's Thok.
"LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
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I was on holiday for a week and a half, as was said in the V/LA thread. You want me to post while I'm in Vegas? Not a chance. I have been defending myself now. I'm back now.Thok wrote:Assuming that you are protown, this is sort of correct, but it ignores the fact that if there is only one scum, the voting records/lack of lynch don't tell us anything and it relies on an "I know my alignment" argument which makes it worthless to everybody else. You comments also suggest you know there's going to be a tomorrow, which I claim is not completely obvious if you are town. And it ignores the completely symmetric argument I have wth you.LoudmouthLee wrote:Think about it... I know from MY prospective that Thok has a greater chance of being scum out of ANYONE else in the game.
I mean, by the same argument, I know you have to be scum if there are two scum as the only scum group that couldn't lynch you yet from my point of view is Pooky/Glork, and they had multiple chances to lynch me today.
I'm not impressed by your participation. It's notable that VitR is defending you more vigourously then you are. (This is meant as a criticism of LML's lurkerness/lack of input, as opposed to a criticism of VitR's play).
Explain your reason for NOT voting EmpTyger D1 at lynch scene, Thok.
@ Glork - Same question.
"LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
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Want my innocence? Here it is.
I could have VERY easily unvoted EmpTyger and voted MM. I was suspicious of MM, remember? (I wanted to lynch MM too) but I was on board with an Emptyger lynch as well. If I would have switched my vote to MM (as I said I wanted to), we would have lynched an innocent, and given Emptyger a day to cool his ass down.
In other words, I was instrumental in lynching a SCUM in a PROBABLE 2 scum game.
WAKE UP PEOPLE! Bussing is a "good idea" normally, but when you have SO FEW scum to start, it's DUMB.
Thok or Glork. You lynch me, you put yourself in quite a perdicament tomorrow.
I could have VERY easily unvoted EmpTyger and voted MM. I was suspicious of MM, remember? (I wanted to lynch MM too) but I was on board with an Emptyger lynch as well. If I would have switched my vote to MM (as I said I wanted to), we would have lynched an innocent, and given Emptyger a day to cool his ass down.
In other words, I was instrumental in lynching a SCUM in a PROBABLE 2 scum game.
WAKE UP PEOPLE! Bussing is a "good idea" normally, but when you have SO FEW scum to start, it's DUMB.
Thok or Glork. You lynch me, you put yourself in quite a perdicament tomorrow.
"LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
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unvote
, mainly because I'd actually like to hear you talk. But there's a good chance that this vote is going back on you soon.I wasn't posting much at the time of the lynch scene. By the time I would have voted EmpTyger had been lynched.LoudmouthLee wrote:Explain your reason for NOT voting EmpTyger D1 at lynch scene, Thok.
@ Glork - Same question.
Do you believe scumThok would choose not to bus EmpTyger in what was an obvious bussing situation (after the whole Skruffs-EmpTyger thing)?
Why when I started going after Glork day 2 for exactly the reason you just mentioned, did you use that as an excuse to attack me? Why haven't you made any real attempt to distinguish between Glork and me; surely there's lots of information in the thread that you could use to evaluate the two of us, but you've been using meta-tells rather than actually trying to say stuff when explaining why you are voting for people.
I don't really by the vacation excuse; it works somewhat, but even given that, there are still long periods of time when you could have posted but didn't. Why didn't you post from Wednesday or Thursday (days when you weren't on vacation-you've said you got back on Tuesday)? Would you have posted if I hadn't requested a mass prod?
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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Hi, go read the game, and find for yourself the three times where I have already explained myself.LmL wrote:Explain your reason for NOT voting EmpTyger D1 at lynch scene, Thok.
@ Glork - Same question.
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How about, for my edification, you go and quote it for me, or instead of being patronizing, you just say it again.Glork wrote:Hi, go read the game, and find for yourself the three times where I have already explained myself.LmL wrote:Explain your reason for NOT voting EmpTyger D1 at lynch scene, Thok.
@ Glork - Same question.
"LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
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I bought internet access for a few hours, and as Yaw could tell you, I basically worried about my modded games. I also made a few posts in games, and since the overall flow of this game is much slower, I decided to wait.Thok wrote:unvote, mainly because I'd actually like to hear you talk. But there's a good chance that this vote is going back on you soon.
I wasn't posting much at the time of the lynch scene. By the time I would have voted EmpTyger had been lynched.LoudmouthLee wrote:Explain your reason for NOT voting EmpTyger D1 at lynch scene, Thok.
@ Glork - Same question.
Do you believe scumThok would choose not to bus EmpTyger in what was an obvious bussing situation (after the whole Skruffs-EmpTyger thing)?
Why when I started going after Glork day 2 for exactly the reason you just mentioned, did you use that as an excuse to attack me? Why haven't you made any real attempt to distinguish between Glork and me; surely there's lots of information in the thread that you could use to evaluate the two of us, but you've been using meta-tells rather than actually trying to say stuff when explaining why you are voting for people.
I don't really by the vacation excuse; it works somewhat, but even given that, there are still long periods of time when you could have posted but didn't. Why didn't you post from Wednesday or Thursday (days when you weren't on vacation-you've said you got back on Tuesday)? Would you have posted if I hadn't requested a mass prod?
It's a bad idea, if there are only 2 scum, to bus. Awful idea. Really. It makes the necessity of an endgame to be apparent. Too much to worry about. If there are only 2 scum, and you could bus one, it wouldn't make it prudent. It's not a good idea.
The reason why I havent distinguished between you and Glork is that you guys are equally as scummy IMHO, but since you placed the vote on me FIRST, it made me feel quite unsafe about your alignment. After everyone checked in and no one voted for me...
"LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
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Pshaw. You voted for me first today. You can't seriously be claiming that the reason you found me scummy today was because of a vote that I made on you after you had already voted me.LoudmouthLee wrote:The reason why I havent distinguished between you and Glork is that you guys are equally as scummy IMHO, but since you placed the vote on me FIRST, it made me feel quite unsafe about your alignment. After everyone checked in and no one voted for me...
Are you actually unwilling to actually go and do some post by post analysis to try and distinguish between the two of us?
I'd also like to hear your opinion on VitaminR.
Again, this says you were back Wednesday and Thursday. Why didn't you post either of those days?LoudmouthLee wrote:I am away on Holiday until tuesday.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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And this is bad enough to keep you from posting, but mild enough that you've recovered after 2-3 days?LoudmouthLee wrote:Jet Lag. I was waking up at 3pm. I really didnt rest enough/ This game is a lot to wrap yourself around.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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Lazy bastard. This is the only time I do this for you:LoudmouthLee wrote:How about, for my edification, you go and quote it for me, or instead of being patronizing, you just say it again.Glork wrote:Hi, go read the game, and find for yourself the three times where I have already explained myself.LmL wrote:Explain your reason for NOT voting EmpTyger D1 at lynch scene, Thok.
@ Glork - Same question.
Glork wrote:I already have, on multiple occasions.PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Why don't you explain where you were on the Emptyger train Glork?
One example does not make a trend Glork, it's absolutely ludicrious to say that player A is scum because he is doing "B" by pointing out that Player C was scum when he also did "B" in a previous game, the size of the sample that you are picking out of is incredibly large and you will be able to find an example of a "C" who did "B" for lots and lots of "B"'s.
Just because she's not less likely to be scum doesn't mean it makes her MORE likely to be scum.
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Three different quotes from one post.Emp responds to LmL. I don't really get a "distancing" feeling.
Skruffs catching up. AE more grr @ SV. LmL still wants Emp or Mach-Maf lynched. VitR doesn't like Emp's indignance (though I believe he has failed to move over to the Empwagon, up to this point).
Emp claims to think Skruffs is a Cop. This sets off alarms for PJ and AE, and rightfully so. Erg0 expresses similar discontent with Emp's posting, but neglects to vote b/c he is unsure of the lynch situation. MM confirm-votes Emp. LmL does, too.
Why am I guilty again, Glork?
"LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
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Not getting "distancing" from my gut does not exclude the possibility. I said in my re-read that I did not get such a feeling. It may seem surprising to you, but my gut *is* wrong every once in a while.
Your play in the last couple of gamedays makes babies cry in the streets. I still don't like your quick-hammer, Erg0's death, or the back-and-forth game you've played with both Thok and myself (though, admittedly, I've back-and-forth'd a lot in this game, so this is definitely the weakest of my contentions).
Your play in the last couple of gamedays makes babies cry in the streets. I still don't like your quick-hammer, Erg0's death, or the back-and-forth game you've played with both Thok and myself (though, admittedly, I've back-and-forth'd a lot in this game, so this is definitely the weakest of my contentions).
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Skruffs catching up. AE more grr @ SV. LmL still wants Emp or Mach-Maf lynched. VitR doesn't like Emp's indignance (though I believe he has failed to move over to the Empwagon, up to this point).
Just to explain the point of me lyhnching MM.
"LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
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I'd like to hear LML actually respond to the above.Thok wrote:Pshaw. You voted for me first today. You can't seriously be claiming that the reason you found me scummy today was because of a vote that I made on you after you had already voted me.LoudmouthLee wrote:The reason why I havent distinguished between you and Glork is that you guys are equally as scummy IMHO, but since you placed the vote on me FIRST, it made me feel quite unsafe about your alignment. After everyone checked in and no one voted for me...
Are you actually unwilling to actually go and do some post by post analysis to try and distinguish between the two of us?
I'd also like to hear your opinion on VitaminR.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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I honestly flipped a coin between you and Glork. I think you two are, by far, the scummiest people left in the game.
I am not unwilling to do a post by post to distinguish the both of you. I implore the town to lynch you, and if the game is not over then, to lynch Glork.
I think Vitamin R is town. If VitR is scum, and I go to endgame with him (as in, Glork, VitR and Myself), I would vote Glork out the gate and lose the game. He is lower on my scum meter than PJ/Pooky.
I am not unwilling to do a post by post to distinguish the both of you. I implore the town to lynch you, and if the game is not over then, to lynch Glork.
I think Vitamin R is town. If VitR is scum, and I go to endgame with him (as in, Glork, VitR and Myself), I would vote Glork out the gate and lose the game. He is lower on my scum meter than PJ/Pooky.
"LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
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OK, I'd like to hear why you believe this, preferably with something that doesn't involve "VitR is the only person who hasn't threatened to vote me". You've been very reticent in actually providing your reasoning for your scum list.LoudmouthLee wrote:I think Vitamin R is town. If VitR is scum, and I go to endgame with him (as in, Glork, VitR and Myself), I would vote Glork out the gate and lose the game. He is lower on my scum meter than PJ/Pooky.
Also, if you thought Glork and I were equally scummy, why didn't you go after both of us at the beginning of the day? If it honestly was a coin flip to you out of which of Glork/me got lynched, why pick to focus on one of us at all?
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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Because, the focus of my arguments must be on one. If they were on both, my arguments are weaker.
And, Thok, stop asking me WHY someone is seemingly innocent. It's the Burden of Proof fallacy. I simply find VitR less scummy than everyone else. I have voiced why, in the past, I have found PJ guilty, glork guilty and you guilty.
That should be more than enough proof.
And, Thok, stop asking me WHY someone is seemingly innocent. It's the Burden of Proof fallacy. I simply find VitR less scummy than everyone else. I have voiced why, in the past, I have found PJ guilty, glork guilty and you guilty.
That should be more than enough proof.
"LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate
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Gee, so you're more interested in getting somebody lynched then in getting the correct person lynched? This is either stupid townie thinking or scum thinking.LoudmouthLee wrote:Because, the focus of my arguments must be on one. If they were on both, my arguments are weaker.
The reason I'm asking you to explain your reasoning is to see if you have any reasoning for your positions, or if you are simply pulling arguments out of your ass. Let me ask a similar question-why do you find me scummy?And, Thok, stop asking me WHY someone is seemingly innocent. It's the Burden of Proof fallacy. I simply find VitR less scummy than everyone else. I have voiced why, in the past, I have found PJ guilty, glork guilty and you guilty.
That should be more than enough proof.
I'll even give you an answer from what I've seen in the thread. From what I can tell it's not my day 1 behavior: you never claimed to find me scummy day 1 and you called me solidly protown day 1. A quick read says that most of your suspicions of me are metagamish in nature "I seem to know too much" or "I seem to know the mindset of scum" or "Glork metagames to town for me, so I should vote Thok". Except the first of those two are metagames that you should know fail horribly on me, from experience and the third is simply ridiculous. And you've all but admitted yesterday that a perfectly reasonable metagame on me would suggest I'm protown (you said as much when you voted Glork).
So why am I scum again? Oh wait, it's because you weren't quick-lynched today. Yeah, that's a really compelling argument.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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I would like to hear this too. It seems all too easy to just put me in that corner.Thok wrote:OK, I'd like to hear why you believe this, preferably with something that doesn't involve "VitR is the only person who hasn't threatened to vote me". You've been very reticent in actually providing your reasoning for your scum list.
Regardless of whether "change in stance" is the most accurate characterisation, I don't think the implicit "LML is at the top of my list" was very strong in that post. You hadn't strongly pushed LML in a while and you were in the middle a short spat with Pooky. Why are you "manning up" now?Glork wrote:When it *really* boils down to it, I still don't think that either Thok or Pooky are scum, and I don't see you being lynched today.
I don't really see how that's a change in stance. In my last post, I basicaly said "I'm confused, and I have sucked this game" but there was an implicit "LmL is at the top of my list" based on this:I'm just finally manning up and acting on that inkling.Glork wrote:Pretty much everyone has done something that I just really don't like, at one point or another, but VitR/Thok/PJ have also done things that I had marked as distinctly protown.
It just seems awfully convenient, with the approaching deadline and Pooky's threat.
I agree with this.Thok wrote:Assuming that you are protown, this is sort of correct, but it ignores the fact that if there is only one scum, the voting records/lack of lynch don't tell us anything and it relies on an "I know my alignment" argument which makes it worthless to everybody else. You comments also suggest you know there's going to be a tomorrow, which I claim is not completely obvious if you are town. And it ignores the completely symmetric argument I have wth you.LoudmouthLee wrote:Think about it... I know from MY prospective that Thok has a greater chance of being scum out of ANYONE else in the game.
I don't like the inactivity argument, though. There are plenty of reasons why people do not post and they need not be related to alignment at all.
I do think Thok has some compelling arguments. I feel that largely, though, LML is digging his own grave. He could have avoided a lot of what is being held against him. I don't see a scumLML being that imprecise. The coinflipping thing is an excellent example. LML would have been so much better off just saying he finds Thok more suspicious.
Thok, how do you see the Emp wagon and LML's role in it? (This really goes for anyone voting LML.)