Mafiascum.net

This is the only time I'm going to say this, because I don't think we need to kill Elsa now, but...

I want everyone who knows the flavor, and realizes that this game seems designed to have many killing roles on both/all sides(depending on single/multiball), to consider this.

Is it more likely that Simon is a neutral doctor, or that the Alliance, who has multiple doctors and is likely scum, has a scum doctor.

Just...

Think about that.

End setup/spec.

-Cerb

why don't you just say whatever it is exactly that you're trying to say

and if what you're trying to say is "elsa is likely a scum doctor", why don't you think she needs to die?

In post 1152, northsidegal wrote:why don't you just say whatever it is exactly that you're trying to say

and if what you're trying to say is "elsa is likely a scum doctor", why don't you think she needs to die?

Because the weight of probability isn't enough in favor of her being scum doctor for me to want her to die today?

I just don't want people to be stupid and assume that she IS 3p, when I feel there's far more weight, flavor wise, for her to be scum. Flavor alone isn't enough cause to lynch someone though, generally.

-Cerb

In post 1152, northsidegal wrote:why don't you just say whatever it is exactly that you're trying to say

and if what you're trying to say is "elsa is likely a scum doctor", why don't you think she needs to die?

#goodposting because that is the bit I agree with
given presence of multiple killing roles and the death inhibition mechanic it's better to keep PRO TOWN killing roles and protectives alive which gives us a better chance of a town kill not going thru.

my flavour is literally Satan. I'm an innocent child.

In post 1150, Elsa Jay wrote:Subject RC magically disappeared, leaving a gender neutral mass murderer named Chara in their place. May or may not be an improvement.

10/10

In post 1142, CheekyTeeky wrote:@Tor thoughts on RR and Thor?

I didn't work on either ISO and didn't re-read anything so these are my impressions from just reading the thread in real time.

the way drixx and cerb are playing remind me a lot of their play as town in heroes wanted, which is the only experience I have with either. they're both analytical, cerb is more inquisite and drixx is more introspective. I remember townreading the slot emotionally as it was getting wagoned, but I don't remember why. they are both more or less exactly what I expect of them, so I have no reason to doubt they're town here. this isn't a null read btw, this is a townread. they're playing a version of their town games and are fine in my book. I also think the hydra is the strongest slot in the game and it should never be touched d1 because scum will want to SPK it.

Thor is curious. I've played with town!thor twice when I was also town, once in that game we met as you remember, and in another game I subbed out d1 when you were scum. a lot of what I see here is how thor phrases/questions people, but there's something he is doing here that's different from his other games, and it's both a difference in his personality and a difference in how he pushes people. I think it's really curious that he asked nancy to sheep him, as I don't expect him to, not when he is scumreading our slot, and not to anyone that just replaced in on d1. I expect town!thor to poke nancy to get a read off of her, question her on things, anything like that. I don't think thor believes asking nancy to sheep him will give him a reasonable read on nancy. and I don't think he is doing so because he strongly believes whoever he is voting is scum (I don't even know who he was voting then, it's how superficial he was about it). I also don't really expect thor to call my play "trash" in this game. I don't think I'm behaving any differently than the other games I had with thor, and even if I was, I expect him to act smarter when trying to parse me out. I don't remember us interacting on many things, if anything at all. I expect him to question me a whole lot here if he thinks I'm scum, and he is not doing that.

In post 1154, the worst wrote:

In post 1152, northsidegal wrote:why don't you just say whatever it is exactly that you're trying to say

and if what you're trying to say is "elsa is likely a scum doctor", why don't you think she needs to die?

#goodposting because that is the bit I agree with
given presence of multiple killing roles and the death inhibition mechanic it's better to keep PRO TOWN killing roles and protectives alive which gives us a better chance of a town kill not going thru.

Also a consideration.

If we don't believe that he's actually a neutral doctor, the proposed plan where we control who he heals each night is possibly the best choice. If he's actually neutral, we let him do what he wants.

So I suppose whether or not you think there's enough cause to lease them is significant.

The fact that their initial proposal was being leashed...bothers me. I don't know them well enough to know if scum them would realize that being leashed would be the best way to avoid questions about their doctor choices in the future, as well as minimize the chances that any other scum, if such exists, would shoot at them, since they wouldn't actually be stopping kills.

-Cerb

pedit: <3 ND

that was tor, not nancy

but <3 to you too

In post 1158, Reasonably Rational wrote:

In post 1154, the worst wrote:

In post 1152, northsidegal wrote:why don't you just say whatever it is exactly that you're trying to say

and if what you're trying to say is "elsa is likely a scum doctor", why don't you think she needs to die?

#goodposting because that is the bit I agree with
given presence of multiple killing roles and the death inhibition mechanic it's better to keep PRO TOWN killing roles and protectives alive which gives us a better chance of a town kill not going thru.

Also a consideration.

If we don't believe that he's actually a neutral doctor, the proposed plan where we control who he heals each night is possibly the best choice. If he's actually neutral, we let him do what he wants.

So I suppose whether or not you think there's enough cause to lease them is significant.

The fact that their initial proposal was being leashed...bothers me. I don't know them well enough to know if scum them would realize that being leashed would be the best way to avoid questions about their doctor choices in the future, as well as minimize the chances that any other scum, if such exists, would shoot at them, since they wouldn't actually be stopping kills.

-Cerb

pedit: <3 ND

*NDS*

Sorry, missed a letter.

-Cerb

I was looking at it more as giving someone night immunity then stopping an actual kill. Now I have to be sneaky with my heals. Or are we going back to plan A?

In post 1161, Elsa Jay wrote:I was looking at it more as giving someone night immunity then stopping an actual kill. Now I have to be sneaky with my heals. Or are we going back to plan A?

there's the one that helps you the most, and the one that helps town the most. I'm fine with either. if you wanna achieve your wincon, don't be enough in the way of scum that they'll eventually want you dead because you can stop their kills. if you just wanna help town, be tricky and don't say who you're healing.

cerb's plan doesn't "control the heals" though. it controls nothing. it gives scum the person who is getting doc'ed, so that person will never die at night or they'll know when to use their 1-shot strongman and whatnot. it's turning the neutral doc into vanilla because "what if scum", which doesn't matter at all for so many reasons that I don't wanna start explaining.

my 2c

-tor

be here in a little bit

In post 1158, Reasonably Rational wrote:The fact that their initial proposal was being leashed...bothers me. I don't know them well enough to know if scum them would realize that being leashed would be the best way to avoid questions about their doctor choices in the future, as well as minimize the chances that any other scum, if such exists, would shoot at them, since they wouldn't actually be stopping kills.

I was hoping someone wouldn't bring this up, now they're alert to the fact that noone is giving them a heal target for a reason and they'll likely be more careful about their selection. I guess it's easy enough just to heal a credible villa either way. I have been keeping my opinion on Elsa pretty close to my chest. I particularly dislike the "pocketed" thing going on between Elsa/Tor but don't know what to make of it yet.

In post 1164, CheekyTeeky wrote:

In post 1158, Reasonably Rational wrote:The fact that their initial proposal was being leashed...bothers me. I don't know them well enough to know if scum them would realize that being leashed would be the best way to avoid questions about their doctor choices in the future, as well as minimize the chances that any other scum, if such exists, would shoot at them, since they wouldn't actually be stopping kills.

I was hoping someone wouldn't bring this up, now they're alert to the fact that noone is giving them a heal target for a reason and they'll likely be more careful about their selection. I guess it's easy enough just to heal a credible villa either way. I have been keeping my opinion on Elsa pretty close to my chest. I particularly dislike the "pocketed" thing going on between Elsa/Tor but don't know what to make of it yet.

it just benefits elsa the most to give the target. he becomes someone no one will want dead for the rest of the game. it's of little utility for us, it doesn't trouble scum, and elsa isn't town numbers so he will never be a problem as long as he is faithful to his heal.

In post 1165, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:

In post 1164, CheekyTeeky wrote:

In post 1158, Reasonably Rational wrote:The fact that their initial proposal was being leashed...bothers me. I don't know them well enough to know if scum them would realize that being leashed would be the best way to avoid questions about their doctor choices in the future, as well as minimize the chances that any other scum, if such exists, would shoot at them, since they wouldn't actually be stopping kills.

I was hoping someone wouldn't bring this up, now they're alert to the fact that noone is giving them a heal target for a reason and they'll likely be more careful about their selection. I guess it's easy enough just to heal a credible villa either way. I have been keeping my opinion on Elsa pretty close to my chest. I particularly dislike the "pocketed" thing going on between Elsa/Tor but don't know what to make of it yet.

it just benefits elsa the most to give the target. he becomes someone no one will want dead for the rest of the game. it's of little utility for us, it doesn't trouble scum, and elsa isn't town numbers so he will never be a problem as long as he is faithful to his heal.

I find it hard to believe they have this level of sophistication but they couldn't tell RC's mason claim was a joke.

having a doctor on someone the entire game hardly seems like it doesn't trouble scum to me

In post 1166, CheekyTeeky wrote:I find it hard to believe they have this level of sophistication but they couldn't tell RC's mason claim was a joke.

you seem to be conflating toranaga's explanation for elsa's actual reasoning...?

just because he says that it benefits elsa the most for all those reasons doesn't actually mean that elsa had the same thought process.

Me believing the Mason claim was me sighing in relief at an easy heal target. Clearly that didnt go well.

In post 1167, northsidegal wrote:having a doctor on someone the entire game hardly seems like it doesn't trouble scum to me

knowing where the doctor will go so it never stops a kill, though. and if scum has a single roleblock, a single redirect, a single strongman, they can get around it anytime they want. elsa being useless is good for elsa, and neutral to the rest of us. I'm fine with him playing that way, but let's not pretend he'll be as useful for town as if he acted like a real doc at night.

I'm not saying elsa thought those things either, which is why I'm telling him how to best play his role now. what elsa initially proposed is, accidentally or not, the best way to play his role.

In post 1169, Elsa Jay wrote:Me believing the Mason claim was me sighing in relief at an easy heal target. Clearly that didnt go well.

Why do you want an easy heal target? Is your role compulsive?

A note again, I cant be roleblocked. Just making sure we know that part.

Pedit: clearly ive been hinting my modifier for awhile, but no, I'm not compulsive.

If it helps, I'm Ascetic with a single BP.

Wait so you're an Ascetic healer with 1x bp?