White Flag - TM2020

[CheekyTeeky]

And she'd want to take out FF instead of Gobbles? I'm with Auro on the confused part.

[Dunnstral]

And she'd want to take out FF instead of Gobbles? I'm with Auro on the confused part.

What if gobbles is scum too. Or she just didn't notice gobbles was being voted and came in here and said "former is the only wagon I can see being scum" without actually looking at who was voting where, thinking it was still former/her

[CheekyTeeky]

I don't think she'd say that if FF was the only counter-wagon to hers. If she is scum and like you say, not playing until end game, what's the biggest pay-off here? An NSG scumflip would probably make FF look a whole lot better after her vote there, plus she has the master of bussing on her team. Either way you cut the cake on her alignment scum!FF still makes sense.

[KittyMo]

@Formerfish

I took Gobs 344 way differently than you did. I'll wait for Gob to chime in before I give my 2 cents though.

Is now a good time for this? In his current absence I'm pondering that the early rudeness with you two may have been theater. :b

Still pending.

---

I've just gone through a full multi-iso of you/Cheeky/wgeurts. This entire post is going to about you and I am going to do my best to make it not a nightmare to read.

Auro/Dann/Dunn/Dong/Hop all go after you a bit for your early posts, which I don't think was especially deserved except I guess by PoE, what you were doing was fine for page 2.

Looking at the big catch-up: far from IIOA, content is there. There's good things, some less good things. Hopkirk townread has the least established progression in your posts.

Spoiler:

Gobble is the scummiest player at this point in the game.

If you have meta info on scum NSG you should share it, I don't know what you are talking about.

VOTE: Formerfish

Gob is the scummiest player to Dunn. Gob claims to have info on NSG that makes her scum. Dunn votes me while asking his biggest scum read what makes NSG scum. That totally makes sense.

At this point Brad stood up from his computer and went into the kitchen. In the back of the cabinet there was a bottle that had grown a bit dusty over time. Some ol' kentucky rye whiskey sloshed in the bottle as it was removed from its forgotten home. See the only time that Brad ever drinks from this bottle is when he has read something that makes his head literally hurt. Brad used to go the hospital in the past when things like this happened. He would explain how he felt and the doctors and nurses would listen and they would run some tests. All of those actions were in vain as what Brad was suffering from was not something that could be deduced by any tests known to man. Brad was suffering from an allergy to other people and the things that they say that make no sense at all. Brad has been doing good, staying on the right path, avoiding politics and any discussions of religion. Playing Mafia was playing with fire though, and deep down Brad always knew that this would be the ending given enough time. Well what the hell, I know the medication says not to drink with it, but thats just a suggestion right?

This is by far your weirdest take. You have totally lost the nuance here that Gobble was gone for fucking ages, and that Dunn in the same catch-up style you are literally doing yourself, comments on the re-entrance and then ends up flipping his vote to you. This looks like a clapback for moving onto you. Because if what you quoted is the entire progression, that's probably worth digging into more than it seems like you ever do. But somehow you've gone to the effort of cutting up the quote to narrate it like this without analysing the situation fully. If this is your honest reaction to the post than frankly I don't get why you don't suspect Dunn more from it.

[snip]

And its cool man, i do better in figuring people out by talking to them in real time because they have less time to try and figure out angels and you get more honest answers. If you hunt differently, then do you.

This kind of makes me feel worse about your manner of posting today (as in when I'm writing this post). Because I feel like there was a lot of thread activity to dig into and I don't feel the energy of you suddenly having more of a real-time opportunity than you usually have in the game.

oh i see what you mean, you made those shorter posts while that one was in draft. That makes sense

Hop 'Hopenhop' Hop

Aaaaaayyy, he got there.

And I'll answer CT here as well. Your slot dropped off because when I read the thread in one go i liked that slot, then i realized how dormant it went after bitching at someone for saying they might not give 100% attention to this game.

CT, did you iso me, because if you did you would have seen the post i made about why my read changed on geurts and why he went from a townleanish to a scumlean.

Thats why i said you had a whole to climb out of as soon as you came into the thread.

I feel like both arguments Hoppy and CT are using against me are bad premises because they either missed info crucial to their basis or they ignored something i totally said.

They're bad premises, but are they scummy ones? I feel like addressing it as a pattern that is happening against you is the more defensive and less productive angle to take. Rather than looking at the motivation behind them individually. And while the full explanation of his wgeurts slot read is prompted by Cheeky, it doesn't sit that well with me. Acknowledging that Hopkirk misunderstood you and now says you "make sense" but still writing him out as arguing against you with a "bad premise" is sorta odd shade toward an apparent townread while Cheeky was scummier for you. Overall, just a tonally weird post.

Spoiler: NSG stuff

I was going to wall again, but Im high and feel a little wordy and like things might not flow if i bunched everything together. Enjoy this next few hours postings.

despite what I've said I don't actually want to lynch nsg day 1, I was just hoping wagoning her would be effective in getting her to play and ehhhhhh

I've been thinking about this a little bit. If NSGs team is pulling her to other games where they need help do you think that they would do that with her as scum or as town? If she is scum then wouldn't her team make shes in here making noise so she doesnt take this heat? If she is town then they probably assume that they can borrow her for the time being with the idea that she can come in here and town it up when she needs to.

This is all kinda working under the idea that we are incapable of finding scum on our own and that we need her to come save us.

I think that we have a good deal of info going into this first lynch and that we will have a better understanding of the game state when we see a few flips.

If she is scum then wouldn't her team make shes in here making noise so she doesnt take this heat? If she is town then they probably assume that they can borrow her for the time being with the idea that she can come in here and town it up when she needs to.

I've addressed this.
If she's scum she'd be held accountable for her pushes, she'd take heat for driving a mislynch.
If she's town she's a prime target for a N1 kill, meaning she'd want to have some impact on the game - making her refusal to play D1 strange.

I dunno, I think there is a good chance that if she really thinks shes going to die tonight that maybe her not doing anything d1 is a decent strategy.

Think about it. If she try-hards today and comes up with a bunch of solid reads, it almost certainly seals her fate tonight. And then we move on and who really listens to dead people when they die?

If she lays low and lets us progress the game scum is going to be forced to make a choice between taking out a vocal town leader from today, or NSG who could potentially be a leader in the future. This gives her the best chance to get to d2 as town imo.

I complained about this in my team discord back when it happened, which launched into a bit of a convo about what that meant in terms of TvS/SvS etc., from that noticed you'd made a point of saying you didn't know NSG well multiple times earlier. I'm not entirely sure this is a logical following from your earlier expressed thoughts on her including that.

That aside, you've 'been thinking' about it and have these long paragraphs that reflect... the level 1 base interpretation of accepting NSG's premises... My personal viewpoint is that this is a WIFOM argument that is being presented as though the rest of us somehow didn't consider it. I definitely didn't like this, how much of that is differences in perspective is something I'm unsure of.

Spoiler: Problematic progression?

FF has been tiptoeing around what could be deemed the strong town players Dunn, Dann, Kitty and town reading the not so towny people. When he decided to attack Dann he was constantly throwing shade and acting like he was reassessing but he wasn't, he left dann in his scum reads after saying he felt better. His jump on the Auro wagon was opportunistic, ceasing on the game trajectory that was running in his favour. These are the main points I'll be elaborating on.

FF is interacting with Dunn in a way that feels like he's trying to stay under the radar. It's what and who he's picking and choosing to respond to. You're not giving his town game enough credit if you think this is it.

Cheeky I don't know if you're looking for a formal invite for us to interact, cause I'm not sure why you are unable to ask me whatever you wanna talk about.

Like I said go read my iso and to come back with questions about my reads or anything you wanted to talk about, did I miss a response to that or are you still just trying to compare my play here to how I play as an SE in newbie games?

This is a very different game for many reasons. First of all I have 3 other players looking at the game and giving their takes and opinions on people so I dont have to do all my hunting here since I have some good fucking partners helping me there. Second, the last time i did a TM i played horribly and Im trying to not repeat that performance. Third, sue me If I wanna take this game a little more serious since im having some issues with inadequacy on site and maybe if I actually play well here and show people im not some chuckle fuck that ill feel better.

I can go back to shotgunning anything that moves if you really want me to, but I think that time is gone in this game and you missed it. We are here now and you wanna talk but whenever you talk to me it doesnt seem like you are talking about what you want to talk about.

I will hang Dann or Auro right now, CT maybe her arguments against me feel very contrived, but she claims a case is coming, so...

I dunno if you missed this specific post, but given she did make the beginnings of a case there, the meta bit is not the important thing to be focusing on. Not that I don't agree that you playing differently in Team Mafia than a newbie game doesn't make sense, it's just also pretty NAI.

Quote the multiple people explaining why it's anti-town.

People don't need to explain things to your liking for it to be true, your role pm dictated that long before you opened your mouth and let us all see which color you got as clearly as you did when you opened the pm.

I have two shoulder angels in this game, and the one that doesn't like you was put off by you in real-time this 1v1 argument. From a theory standpoint I side with you, and yet what made me facepalm was not that I felt Auro was being disingenuous, it was him being seemingly so genuinely obstinate for the umpteenth time despite me not agreeing. But the bigger issue is that I don't know if I see this as you genuinely becoming more convinced he's scum, or that that tracks onto how you came back to the thread afterward. Like, you've clarified you prefer Auro/Dann/Dong lynches. But your re-entrance is very...calm toward those people, main reaction to goings-on is that Dunn is the "sane one."

Anyway: These are my concerns about you, feel free to clear any of them up.

[KittyMo]

She means Esp green would imply strong Auro red, and in turn Dann, etc...?

Gobble townslipped methinks.

I think Esp is the best lynch regardless today.

I think it is a mistake to assume that me and auto is SvT both potential ways.

I agree that there needs to be analysis of mid day wagons, the resistance they both had and how me v Auro shaped that phase of the day.

I still think Dann looks bad on both sides, but I'm not enjoying my own lines on that read.

I don't like the ... roboticness of this, there's been a lot to you vs Auro and so this is oddly...emotionless rhetoric. It would bother me more without certain theory context!

I hate reads lists but I think I'm a bit all over the place so I might hand draw a little mind map or some shit for this game.

I've kinda been stuck in not necessarily liking the lack of uh...detail? with some of your reads ("FF did iioa" "kittymo is gut scum cuz i didn't finish reading her posts") and wanting to scumread you for you being, um, sour. And then another part of me wants to townread you because your salty posts don't seem like something that you should think would make you friends and influence people. With your salt you are projecting, like, a whole belief system that in a way seems more difficult to fake than your actual reads.

But uh, this fucking post, is literally me two days ago. I even felt really shitty that I couldn't force myself to make a reads list that would actually represent how I view things in spite of myself and specifically thought that I would need to make a mind map in order to do. It's bizarrely touching that someone else has the same problem. I don't think I can kill you today.

[KittyMo]

Skimming the last two pages I like BBmolla for town too, but I don't remember him from the early game at all.

This statement in particular seems to come from a town viewpoint.

I'm not at all sold on a Gobble lynch.

FF, your team was giving you inputs: can you specify what exactly?

Why is it implausible disengaged scum Gobble would forgetfully post this?

I didn't like gobble's vote there, though.

Is there something in the progression of his vote that you don't like or is it more bad news bears because you think he's scummy in general? I'm very unsure on gobble right now because there's sort of a black hole in progressions for how he got to his original big read wall. WATCHING ACTIVITY LEVELS was bizarrely political phrasing for the absence. Now he uhhh, apparently likes everyone he used to dislike more besides Dongempire. I thought him liking FF for the burden of proof thing was random because it seemed like one of the more nai things in FF iso to me, but the overall progression on the read doesn't come off implausibly to me on face.

[Auro]

Why is it implausible disengaged scum Gobble would forgetfully post this?

Premised on Gobble being coached, or at least discussing things in the scum PT before posting.

[Hopkirk]

I haven't even remotely caught up and won't until tomorrow evening at the earliest.

VOTE: Dunn

[KittyMo]

Why is it implausible disengaged scum Gobble would forgetfully post this?

Premised on Gobble being coached, or at least discussing things in the scum PT before posting.

On his last thread entrance before this he was called out for possibly being too coached/tactical, and then came back the opposite. He does come off better in reentrance #2 than in #1, but it's ... also a little jarring.

Because FF is scum probably. I'm really uncomfortable with how badly Cephrir wants to lynch NSG.

I think he had his hopes up that she'd be replaced and the slot would exist in a different capacity, and he felt genuinely betrayed that she wasn't - I'm not upset because I expected it, but I suspect he feels similarly to how I did a few days ago just now. Literally my one piece of advice for if I'm not here tomorrow is that the warthog should not be killed by town this game. Granted that new shit happens.

[KittyMo]

I haven't even remotely caught up and won't until tomorrow evening at the earliest.

VOTE: Dunn

[KittyMo]

As for nsg, it's sadly a pleasant surprise she broke character to make a game relevant vote. I'm mulling on that and her other stuff, not married to my vote, we'll see.

[gobbledygook]

I haven't even remotely caught up and won't until tomorrow evening at the earliest.

VOTE: Dunn

We do not have enough time for this vanity wagon and you’re probably wrong anyway.

Please vote Fish, NSG, Dong, or Esp. We have one day to make this happen.

[CheekyTeeky]

Literally my one piece of advice for if I'm not here tomorrow is that the warthog should not be killed by town this game.

Roger that.

[CheekyTeeky]

I haven't even remotely caught up and won't until tomorrow evening at the earliest.

VOTE: Dunn

We do not have enough time for this vanity wagon and you’re probably wrong anyway.

Please vote Fish, NSG, Dong, or Esp. We have one day to make this happen.

There's no wagon on Dong or Esp?

[Hopkirk]

Imagine if it's just Dunn/Gobble/Fish.

(Currently at work and bathroom posting as i realized the submit button only disappears if I quote stuff or add formatting).

Hop 'hopping' Hops

[CheekyTeeky]

Dunn/Gobble doesn't work imo.

[gobbledygook]

I haven't even remotely caught up and won't until tomorrow evening at the earliest.

VOTE: Dunn

We do not have enough time for this vanity wagon and you’re probably wrong anyway.

Please vote Fish, NSG, Dong, or Esp. We have one day to make this happen.

There's no wagon on Dong or Esp?

I said it because they are the most suspected people and have the most traction for a deadline kill.

[PenguinPower]

Vote Count

Formerfish - 5

(CheekyTeeky, BBMolla, gobbledygook, northsidegal, Dannflor)

northsidegal - 2

(Kittymo, Cephrir)

Dunnstral - 2

(Espeonage, Hopkirk)

Auro - 1

(Formerfish)

gobbledygook - 1

(Dunnstral)

Not Voting - 2

(Auro, Dongempire)

Activity Check - Penguin posting votecounts

Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-17 22:59:30)

[Auro]

Formerfish

VOTE: FF

L-1

[Formerfish]

This is fucking bullshit. NSG doesnt play for the entire day phase and then swoops in to revive my dying wagon and now I'm at l-1.

Fuck it. Lynch me. I have done nothing but play my game the best that I can and if you muppets cant see the town in what ive done then fucking put me out of my misery because i dont feel like banging my head on that rock while pushing it up the hill only to have it tip over the other side every fucking time.

I'll just go back to newbie games and pretend that TM never happened just like in 2015.

[Formerfish]

Seriously, its nice to know that you guys would rather lynch an active me than an inactive NSG.

I'll go back to fucking off now.

I hope you all get rekt.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Northsidegal
No clue why hopkirk is voting me while claiming to have read the game. I keep changing my mind on Gobble

@Penguin

since you counted Northsidegal's vote, I guess she is not being replaced and Team Mafia is running with the ruleset that as long as the player comes back before the mod notices, they can keep playing - is that correct, or could the current votecount be innaccurate?

[Auro]

get rekt

UNVOTE:

[Formerfish]

If NSG wants to make this into a 1v1 then I'll gladly take her on.

VOTE: NSG

[Dunnstral]

get rekt

UNVOTE:

I don't even care why that of all things made you unvote, somewhere along the way I started thinking you were town