Yes, but why? You're putting a lot of effort into something that doesn't obviously help town win the game, so I'm wondering what your purpose behind it is.
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:51 pm
by callforjudgement
And again, why are you defending yourself?
You have claimed one of the roles that has the least need to defend itself, out of all power roles (only Innocent Child has less of a need).
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:52 pm
by ItalianoVD
We have time. I want people to look at it and form their opinions. I already have my opinions written out.
But appreciate the shade though.
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:54 pm
by ItalianoVD
In post 1146, callforjudgement wrote:
(Just to make sure it's 100% clear: I did not receive a Friendly Neighbour report about Italiano last night, nor do I have any reason to think that such a report wouldn't arrive if it were sent to me.)
Why would I use my ability on someone I feel is scum? Hmm?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:56 pm
by callforjudgement
Because people who are generally considered scummy are the least likely to be nightkilled, and they have to confirm the action or else you can prove them as scum.
Friendly Neighbour shots should normally be used on the scummiest players around, unless you suspect a vigilante. If you use them on a highly townish player, they frequently just end up dead and the confirmation goes missing.
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:59 pm
by ItalianoVD
I take it this role is used to form a voting bloc of townie players to go against scum, so sending it to someone you’re suspicious of seems kinda stupid. Of course that doesn’t mean you can’t unknowingly send it to scum who you think is town, but I assume doing that is counterproductive.
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:04 pm
by Raya36
Cfj, I think you're wrong here...the way Italiano wrote his isos is exactly how I do to organize events for quick reference to later draw conclusions from
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:04 pm
by callforjudgement
Friendly Neighbour doesn't let you talk or discuss things, though. It just confirms you as town to a player. The only way that helps to form a voting bloc is that players are more likely to sheep your reads if they know they comes from a townie.
When you're a
claimed
Friendly Neighbour, you get that advantage with
everyone
, not just the player you targeted. All that's needed is for the recipient to claim and confirm that yes, you are town. So the only important factor, now that you've claimed, is that the message gets through. (Of course, during N1 you were unclaimed, so I can see targeting a townie if you were planning not to claim D2.)
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:13 pm
by ItalianoVD
Okay. Duly noted.
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:50 pm
by Tayl0r Swift
yeah cfj i think you have a point that italiano's post was IIoA and he doesnt get towncred for it. but i also think italiano wasnt trying to win townpoints, and was just trying to help town. i had the same reaction of "hmm wheres the analysis, but i decided to wait and see what comes of italiano finishing isos of people off-wagon, and then if that wasnt satisfying i was planning some questions to ask to get analysis
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:29 pm
by WaltertheDunce10
I agree with 1159.
A little confused on why a tfn would want to send it to a scummy player, and I agree on not sending it to people who may be nkd.
Where does this lead us though?
@Raya Does the fact that Italiano and I are in a neighborhood influence your read on me?
In post 1122, callforjudgement wrote:This reminds me: everyone has posted since #898. I'm wondering if we can learn anything about Italiano's Friendly Neighbour target from the fact that they haven't confirmed him yet. (In particular, I see no town motivation in refusing to / failing to confirm Italiano, whereas scum would obviously benefit from the uncertainty about Italiano's slot if his Friendly Neighbour action was on scum N1 and fails/is roleblocked N2. So I think the target in question is more likely than random to be scum.)
In post 1123, callforjudgement wrote:Like, there's no theory reason to fail to confirm a claimed Friendly Neighbour as town. You aren't giving away anything about their role because they've claimed it, and you aren't giving away anything about your role other than that you aren't Ascetic. So it doesn't meaningfully help scum with their rolefishing at all.
How did you rule out the option of an Italiano fakeclaim
In post 1124, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:I said maybe CFJ not yes. Really cfj because earlier I said that you were on my vote list and scum pool so my vote should not come as a surprise to you.
I agree with 1123.
In your opinion, were any of the claims worthwhile?
Italiano's I believe but would like the person who got to put it in thread later on in day.
Don't like rce's fakeclaim
I am not sure about ts's claim
Seems the most suspicious.
But Cfj's recent posts have me going back to raya. I want to sort cfj/frog D3. VOTE: raya
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:20 am
by Raya36
In post 1160, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:I agree with 1159.
A little confused on why a tfn would want to send it to a scummy player, and I agree on not sending it to people who may be nkd.
Where does this lead us though?
@Raya Does the fact that Italiano and I are in a neighborhood influence your read on me?
I consider it NAI unless Italiano really strongly reads you town from neighborhood interactions
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:12 am
by geraintm
I'm sorry, Sunday and not likely to be able to give the game enough time today. Will be back tomorrow properly, there has been too much today that I wouldn't just be picking at the game.
I dont get why there isn't a wagon on you. If people thought not mafia wasnt helpful for town day 1, what are you?
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:38 am
by geraintm
In post 1126, Looker wrote:How did you rule out the option of an Italiano fakeclaim
I ruled it out because it just felt way too brazen for scum to pull off. It doesn't need much in the way for someone to check them or walter out for it all to fall down.
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:58 pm
by ItalianoVD
I’ve been out all day, but I said I would do the ISO’s of shelly’s offwagon voters today so here they go. Again there is no analysis or opinions (I will give my thoughts and analysis most likely tomorrow). I will say that doing these ISO’s has completely destroyed whatever reads I thought I had.
Spoiler:
Raya
Raya’s first mention of Banana was in 165[/post. In [post]167 is answering Walter’s 166. Another in 169, responding to Walter’s 168. Also mentioning Banana in 206 still responding to Walter. Alludes to Banana in 208 in response to geraintm’s 190. Then another mention of Banana in 213; again responding to geraintm’s 212. Raya’s first 1on1 interaction with Banana is in 224, responding to 217. Second interaction with Banana comes in 429 in response to Banana’s 427 and then in 441 in response to 432. Interacts with shelly in 671 in response to shelly’s 649. Mentions shelly in 699[post] in response to Taylor’s [post]690. Then she has multiple interactions in 702704 and 706.
callforjudgment
First interaction with Banana is in 56, then in 62 and then votes for him in 119. Alludes to Banana in 152. Alludes to Banana again in 174. Mentions Banana a couple of times in 270. Again mentions Banana in 464. A mention of banana/shelly in 696, 754, 813, 827, 829, and 835
Gamma
Gamma’s first interaction with Banana is answering his 44. Answers Banana in 240, 241, 242, and 433. Mentions Banana in 434 and then again in 842 and 843
Looker
Replaced in so did not have the opportunity to interact/mention Banana. First interaction with shelly in 666 and then again in 731
P.S. I already have my thoughts/analysis written out so you don’t have to assume I’m potentially making it up as I go @callforjudgment
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:01 pm
by ItalianoVD
My bad let me clean that up, don’t like the way that looks
Spoiler:
Raya
Raya’s first mention of Banana was in 165. In 167 is answering Walter’s 166. Another in 169, responding to Walter’s 168. Also mentioning Banana in 206 still responding to Walter. Alludes to Banana in 208 in response to geraintm’s 190. Then another mention of Banana in 213; again responding to geraintm’s 212. Raya’s first 1on1 interaction with Banana is in 224, responding to 217. Second interaction with Banana comes in 429 in response to Banana’s 427 and then in 441 in response to 432. Interacts with shelly in 671 in response to shelly’s 649. Mentions shelly in 699 in response to Taylor’s 690. Then she has multiple interactions in 702704 and 706.
callforjudgment
First interaction with Banana is in 56, then in 62 and then votes for him in 119. Alludes to Banana in 152. Alludes to Banana again in 174. Mentions Banana a couple of times in 270. Again mentions Banana in 464. A mention of banana/shelly in 696, 754, 813, 827, 829, and 835
Gamma
Gamma’s first interaction with Banana is answering his 44. Answers Banana in 240, 241, 242, and 433. Mentions Banana in 434 and then again in 842 and 843
Looker
Replaced in so did not have the opportunity to interact/mention Banana. First interaction with shelly in 666 and then again in 731
That’s better.
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:58 am
by geraintm
I've looked at how thr wagons day 2 have moved around as best I can.
Thoughts:
1st to form was RCEnigma. Taylor, cfj, raya and me. Got down to just me and raya,but now looker is on too.
Looker: got to 3 at one point, nosferatu, gamma and cfj
Raya. Now to 4. Was the countereagon to rcenigma, led by enigma themselvrs and then taylorswift.
CFJ: got up to 3. Frogster, italiano and Walter.
Taylor has voted for 3 different people
Looker: 5 people (including themselves). Went walter, looker, raya, frogster, rcenigma
Cfj: rcenigam, then looker then walter.
Nosferatu: looker then raya
Walter: raya, then cfj then raya.
I thibk others have not moved their votes enough
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:17 am
by geraintm
Up until last vote, looker has been away from the action.
Cfj looked like they wanted to be on the enigma wagon, but off as soon as they could and now their vote is parked uselessly.
Nosferatu : was on looker for ages, switched now to raya.
I dunno where I am going with this. On phone so hard.
Basically.
Don't like cfj. Not a fan of Taylor.
Hate looker
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:17 am
by geraintm
these are thoughts based on votes, not posts. I can like someone in game but hate their votes and vice versa.
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:53 am
by geraintm
Should probably add that rcenigma, who i am voting for, has been on raya the whole day
