Mafiascum.net

Surely the best way to win as that would be to be scummy, not AFK as gypyx is? [Hope you're well friendo <3]
TGP has shown willingness to dedicate time to the game with a few of the posts and is just being shonky. There's way better ways to pull a jester win - and easier ways.

VOTE: TGP - I'm still happy with this regardless, if he is a jester, then jeeze. If they're both Jesters then that's an amazing wincon

Given the royal theme I wouldn't be surprised if there's a 3rd party of some description, Jester seems a bit naff of a mechanic to throw in.

In post 1123, Hopkirk wrote:I don't really get your read? It feels kinda convoluted/overthought so it's not easy to address.

maybe it is convoluted/overthought. that is why i ask other people, because i am aware that things sometimes get stuck in my mind. isis mentioned ame recently and they are one of my favourite players because they are willing to spend the time to try to see things the way i am and then say, 'jessie i don't think this one makes sense' or 'you might be on to something here' and they like, help me be useful. i get that that's like a big burden for someone, so maybe all of town can share it here.

Normally I don't think Hectic likes third parties. He's ok with cults as solo scum faction and ok with other TPs that are integrated into stuff, but I feel like he doesn't massively like jesters. Maybe apprentice and recursive jesters, but I don't see that being the setup.

In post 1139, Flea The Magician wrote:... ok? want to go in more detail at all? :/


also

*CLINGS TO HOPPY*

hugs are the best :3

In post 1151, team rocket queen wrote:

In post 1123, Hopkirk wrote:I don't really get your read? It feels kinda convoluted/overthought so it's not easy to address.

maybe it is convoluted/overthought. that is why i ask other people, because i am aware that things sometimes get stuck in my mind. isis mentioned ame recently and they are one of my favourite players because they are willing to spend the time to try to see things the way i am and then say, 'jessie i don't think this one makes sense' or 'you might be on to something here' and they like, help me be useful. i get that that's like a big burden for someone, so maybe all of town can share it here.

I don't really see what your problem is? Like I see what you're saying, but I don't understand which bit of it is the problem.

In post 1134, team rocket queen wrote:pooky please unvote just believe in me for a second

I think Jessie is town. This isn’t something scum usually say.

In post 1152, Hopkirk wrote:I don't really see what your problem is? Like I see what you're saying, but I don't understand which bit of it is the problem.

it just felt like you were saying it to say it there. like it didn't make sense to me as it was, like it felt planned or coordinated. because of how it wasn't right to me. i can kinda see it like infinity said and you say you thought of talk as in real time and yeah, i can see that, just didn't feel like natural path of conversation to me but enough others seem to think it is nothing for me to think maybe it is nothing.

In post 1150, Flea The Magician wrote:TGP has shown willingness to dedicate time to the game with a few of the posts and is just being shonky.

it explains gypyx posting the 'catchup time' post and then not catching up. it explains thegoldenparadox dedicating so much of their iso to tying themselves to gypyx. it feels like maybe not the very best way to orchestrate a day one dual jester plan but it definitely feels like a way and it explains all of the oddities of the game to me. i think there is a pretty good chance they are aligned jesters.

In post 1154, team rocket queen wrote:

In post 1152, Hopkirk wrote:I don't really see what your problem is? Like I see what you're saying, but I don't understand which bit of it is the problem.

it just felt like you were saying it to say it there. like it didn't make sense to me as it was, like it felt planned or coordinated. because of how it wasn't right to me. i can kinda see it like infinity said and you say you thought of talk as in real time and yeah, i can see that, just didn't feel like natural path of conversation to me but enough others seem to think it is nothing for me to think maybe it is nothing.

How natural do I feel in general. Open question

OK so lets say there is jester potential... and I actually get serious for a moment [eugh i'm going to need to lie down after this now ]

TGP's defense of Gypyx means their wincon could be:
- Jester who is linked to gypyx, meaning either
- - TGP needs to be lynched first
- - TGP just needs to be lynched before gypyx
- - TGP just needs to be lynched.
The wincon doesn't seem to be two ways from what I recall seeing of gypyx.
If gypyx is a jester, they're playing a long game imo.

The defence could be some weird enabler thing or other mechanic? Going off what potential weird ass stuff I can come up with...
- You win if PlayerX survives D1 and you die [modified jester?]
- PlayerX gains Y ability if you die [I suspect this would've been crumbed]
- Lynch redirection - If you're lynched or killed at all, PlayerX dies instead. [Some weird reflex auto bodyguard mechanic]

and I'm sure others can come up with other weird and wonderful stuff...

The problem for me is I know nothing of the Silent Star games so i don't know what mechanics Hectic has used to mess with his players previously. Because of that my best assumption at this point is to treat this as a "standard" game with a weird day mechanic until we have more information.

If people are aware of the mechanics used then we can speculate on stuff, but like hell am I digging through this again to find mech talk I still got isos to do tbh

Also I've done it in both completed games where I've said I'm going to do something, and then give no indication of having actually done it.

In post 1156, Hopkirk wrote:How natural do I feel in general.

i think some of your posts feel preplanned in a nai way, like your playerlist post at the beginning of this game.

but by natural path of conversation i meant more about it being out of time. like the impetus for you saying it felt like you had planned it perhaps.

In post 1157, Flea The Magician wrote:OK so lets say there is jester potential... and I actually get serious for a moment [eugh i'm going to need to lie down after this now ]

TGP's defense of Gypyx means their wincon could be:
- Jester who is linked to gypyx, meaning either
- - TGP needs to be lynched first
- - TGP just needs to be lynched before gypyx
- - TGP just needs to be lynched.
The wincon doesn't seem to be two ways from what I recall seeing of gypyx.
If gypyx is a jester, they're playing a long game imo.

The defence could be some weird enabler thing or other mechanic? Going off what potential weird ass stuff I can come up with...
- You win if PlayerX survives D1 and you die [modified jester?]
- PlayerX gains Y ability if you die [I suspect this would've been crumbed]
- Lynch redirection - If you're lynched or killed at all, PlayerX dies instead. [Some weird reflex auto bodyguard mechanic]

and I'm sure others can come up with other weird and wonderful stuff...

The problem for me is I know nothing of the Silent Star games so i don't know what mechanics Hectic has used to mess with his players previously. Because of that my best assumption at this point is to treat this as a "standard" game with a weird day mechanic until we have more information.

If people are aware of the mechanics used then we can speculate on stuff, but like hell am I digging through this again to find mech talk I still got isos to do tbh

Also I've done it in both completed games where I've said I'm going to do something, and then give no indication of having actually done it.

or simply they both want to be eliminated today for their wincon. like it also explains thegoldenparadox falling on their sword. i think they are like aligned jesters if either of them are a jester. like they both want to be eliminated, so thegoldenparadox is tying themselves to gypyx with this weird defense. i guess the problem here is with the flips, because if thegoldenparadox flips jester we probably wouldn't flip someone they were defending. it's possible there aren't any flips until we have done both eliminations, as someone suggested.

silent star 1: 10 werewolves, 3 mafia. 6 2-person neighbourhoods, 1 solo, so werewolves thought they were mafia day one.
silent star 2: 8 town pms, 1 mafia, then mafia recruited someone, animal sounds post restriction, two players were nominated, then no more animal sounds and we got to choose between the nominations to be eliminated. then two town were treestumped and lover pairs were made out of the remaining players

Going on that, jesters seems incredibly unlikely. How long did the games last?

or a four person team where two of the players are to be eliminated on day one. i think pooky/skitter/gypyx/thegoldenparadox by far the most likely if this option.

uh, in this theory where they're jesters together (which like, idk how i feel about it frankly? i guess it makes sense considering how odd some of their behavior is but i'm not completely sold on it) are we able to flip one of them at all to like, check? i'm unsure of what wincon there is for paired jesters, like, both of them need to go?

Jessie are you linked to TGP at all?

Where's your pooky read come from, and would you still be happy with lynching TGP today if they're still the lynch of choice?



Pretty sure it's when lynched but can't hurt to check

In post 1158, team rocket queen wrote:

In post 1156, Hopkirk wrote:How natural do I feel in general.

i think some of your posts feel preplanned in a nai way, like your playerlist post at the beginning of this game.

but by natural path of conversation i meant more about it being out of time. like the impetus for you saying it felt like you had planned it perhaps.

I'm sad that you doubt my ability to rapidly generate (hopefully) high quality comedic content without needing to consider it first.
Most of my long monologues are typed out as the words come into my head. That's why there's a lot of spelling mistakes where I mistyped stuff.

So if I get your view it's something like
-Skitter30 asks Hopkirk to talk
-Hopkirk makes some posts responding to Skitter30
-Hopkirk, having responded to Skitter30, sounds as though he's still inviting Skitter30 to talk to him
This sound about right?

If there’s any Hectic game that might have a jester, I can see this one potentially being it because court jesters and is TGP really this bad at scum that they go this much our of their way to put such a huge target on their back? Idk but it’s possible.

I’m not sure how it necessarily follows that Gypyx would also be one. If TGP and Gypyx are aligned and not mafia, I think it could also possibly be because their roles somehow complement each other?

In post 1160, Flea The Magician wrote:Going on that, jesters seems incredibly unlikely. How long did the games last?

lunacy lasted a month, menagerie lasted 20 days

In post 1163, Flea The Magician wrote:Jessie are you linked to TGP at all?

Where's your pooky read come from, and would you still be happy with lynching TGP today if they're still the lynch of choice?

like mechanically in this game? no. like outside of this game? no.

pooky for how they're pressuring gypyx without seemingly considering the slot, while also voting thegoldenparadox, and skitter for how she's pushing thegoldenparadox while discounting defenses of gypyx.

like that's why i think if it is a four person team that wants to eliminate two for some reason that they are the team.

yes but if it is no flip i would be very opposed to flipping both.

I really doubt there's a jester based on familiarity with Hectic.

Jessie's fear of jesters did make me go "wow this looks genuine" but after a beat I remembered that mafia can lose to third parties too.. which is why they are bad setup design. I don't know for sure that Hectic hates them to quite the same extent I do, but I am confident that if he put jesters in the setup it won't be particularly brutal and punishing to eliminate them.

I don't think defending someone who is at E2 is scummy, as I mentioned earlier with the example I used, overestimating an elim is mainly something that's a bad sign coming from the victim of the wagon

Pedit: I see some of the arguments that there could be jesters, and they're not terrible, but more important than whether it can be ruled out completely, I don't think Hectic would do a design where town figured out slots aren't town and then they got punished for eliminating those slots. I complained to him about conditionally elimination proof mafia roles before the game.

In post 1164, Hopkirk wrote:I'm sad that you doubt my ability to rapidly generate (hopefully) high quality comedic content without needing to consider it first.
Most of my long monologues are typed out as the words come into my head. That's why there's a lot of spelling mistakes where I mistyped stuff.

So if I get your view it's something like
-Skitter30 asks Hopkirk to talk
-Hopkirk makes some posts responding to Skitter30
-Hopkirk, having responded to Skitter30, sounds as though he's still inviting Skitter30 to talk to him
This sound about right?

nonono, i mean preplanned as in, 'i am going to make a playerlist post', not prewritten. i quite enjoy your sense of humour. i was quite excited for the opportunity to play with you in matrix decipher, as hectic or bugspray could tell you, and that was part of my great disappointment in having to be replaced.

yes. like i assume that skitter will respond to my posts, and then if she is posting and i want to discuss with her in real time, i can just then respond to her posts. but it seemed like you were, as you say, inviting skitter to talk to you even though you had already responded to her and were waiting for her to respond.

If we're going on a team of 4 I'd say it's more likely to be yourself, TGP, Gypyx and Dunn.

Reasoning being TGP made a shoddy case on Dunn and defended Gypyx. You've come along and fully near derailed the wagon without providing much in the way of alternatives.

Who would be your alternatives today, bearing in mind we got like ...

In post 1062, lendunistus wrote:The deadline is in 3 days, 13 hours, 40 minutes.

at time of posting ish.

In post 1167, Isis wrote:I really doubt there's a jester based on familiarity with Hectic.

Jessie's fear of jesters did make me go "wow this looks genuine" but after a beat I remembered that mafia can lose to third parties too.. which is why they are bad setup design. I don't know for sure that Hectic hates them to quite the same extent I do, but I am confident that if he put jesters in the setup it won't be particularly brutal and punishing to eliminate them.

I don't think defending someone who is at E2 is scummy, as I mentioned earlier with the example I used, overestimating an elim is mainly something that's a bad sign coming from the victim of the wagon

Pedit: I see some of the arguments that there could be jesters, and they're not terrible, but more important than whether it can be ruled out completely, I don't think Hectic would do a design where town figured out slots aren't town and then they got punished for eliminating those slots. I complained to him about conditionally elimination proof mafia roles before the game.

i don't think the jesters would necessarily end the game. especially not if it was a two person jester team.

you have more familiarity with hectic than i do however.

In post 1169, Flea The Magician wrote:If we're going on a team of 4 I'd say it's more likely to be yourself, TGP, Gypyx and Dunn.

Reasoning being TGP made a shoddy case on Dunn and defended Gypyx. You've come along and fully near derailed the wagon without providing much in the way of alternatives.

Who would be your alternatives today, bearing in mind we got like ...

In post 1062, lendunistus wrote:The deadline is in 3 days, 13 hours, 40 minutes.

at time of posting ish.

? i still want to eliminate thegoldenparadox and am not trying to derail the wagon. that's like half of the day phase. i want to not eliminate gypyx if there are no flips. i am pretty sure that there thegoldenparadox isn't a solo jester, as that option does not make sense to me.

Flea I'd prefer if you didn't refer to "lynches". It's tolerated for players but not allowed at all for mods so it's awkward when posing questions to the mod. (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85012)

In post 1171, team rocket queen wrote:i want to not eliminate gypyx if there are no flips.

like if we eliminate thegoldenparadox, cannot eliminate gypyx unless thegoldenparadox flips something that discredits this possibility.

i just wanted someone to unvote in the time being because i was worried about gypyx/thegoldenparadox hammering thegoldenparadox, i hadn't thought the idea through yet,