Choose Carefully Mafia: (Game Over)

The Fonz · Post Post #1150 (ISO) » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:28 am

armlx wrote:
armlx, my question for you is this: how likely do you believe it is that the Corsicans are PF and myself?
After those last couple posts, I'm thinking it is possible.

Listen, 2-1-2 town still can win if we choose alignment wrong on SP. SP's best option is to shoot other scum group, other scum group shoots SP obv, we end up in 2-1. So, I would rather play today as if its 2-2 and maximize my chances of winning in the set up where I have the highest chance of winning.

Yes, that is a possibility. But it applies equally to guessing wrong on

anyone

who is scum, so it isn't a reason to lynch him specifically- and of the three players that aren't me or you, I think he's least likely to be corsican, and therefore the worst lynch. It may be in the interest of SP to shoot the other scum group, but a) he doesn't know who the other scum are and b) he may have given up and flaked.

If we play as if it is 2-2, we can

still

lynch SP tomorrow, so this plan does not harm our chances in 2-2 AT ALL. (Zazie dies, you die, myself, Poker and SP are left). And the evidence we have suggests 3-3... because it's the only way that Santos' proclamation about the town having 'no chance of winning' makes any sense. So when you're town, you should play to maximise the town's chances in the scenario that is most likely.

The worst case scenario is that we lynch town, and we're in 3-3, because that's autoloss. But I know with a lynch of anyone but me or you, that's not possible. PF will claim the same.

So that's the point of asking you about your thoughts on me/poker. Because, from your perspective, that's the only scenario where we're worse off from lynching Zazie today than failing to lynch SP is that one.

SocioPath · Post Post #1151 (ISO) » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:54 pm

Boy, no faith in anyone about me showing up, the holidays are over, sillies, and the mod stated night choices were due by Saturday, and so its Saturday, and here I am.

Anyways, PokerFace isn't Corsican according to my results.

I'm in no hurry to rush the day/night along though since I just got here. I'll vote in due time, treading lightly would be for the best at this point.

armlx · Post Post #1152 (ISO) » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:07 pm

Meh, I'll buy it, but only because I thought CD/Rib was town, and my main concern is that this is a way to make the harder lynch choice in 4-1 today rather then tomorrow. Also, if it is 4-1 Socio just cleared PF, so that's enough.

Vote Zazier

ZazieR · Post Post #1153 (ISO) » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:31 am

That's a lynch of a townie. I hope that SP is telling the truth. If so, The Fonz is scum. Also PF, next time when you make a case, it's for the best if you look at the time of other posts.
The second quote, in which you bolded other scum, oEJo was already lynched and we knew that he was scum. The first quote was me telling that you're not allowed to quote PM's as that's a genreal rule and the third quote was me saying that the two other neighbours (HP, STD, armlx and CC) didn't deserve any attention in my opinion.

The Fonz · Post Post #1154 (ISO) » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:18 am

Don't believe that for a second. If she were town, she wouldn't care whether SP is telling the truth or not- never mind that he obviously isn't because his claim contradicts the game rules.

SocioPath · Post Post #1155 (ISO) » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:26 am

I think I just realised why no one can be tied to oEJo, that is, if this game is actually 2-2.

The Fonz replaced in Dec. 30th, which was to replace a replacement that didn't post. oEJo was long dead before then. He died Nov. 25th, and first failed to die on Nov. 15th. The original player's last post (christiano drago) was on Oct. 25th, which only was an asking of replacement, long before oEJo was outted as being clumsy scum.

So ties of anything never had a chance to happen in the first place, and I'm reeeally starting to think that if ZazieR IS town, that The Fonz would be the other Corsican.
I'm definately investigating him tonight.

Website · Post Post #1156 (ISO) » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:53 am

You do realize how stupid it is to tell people who you're investigating a night before, right? If the game is not over then scum is still alive and you just told scum what you are going to do tonight. Wow, that was so smart. Scum can now plan to acomfort for your actions if you really were a cop. Way to over play your fake claim. Not even William Shatner overacts this much.

But its not like you can investigate anybody. Pretty sure your claim goes against game rules since rules say cops and docs got to choose what to do. And besides if it was 2 cops geared towards one groupeach, some neighbors that 'might' get confirmed after scum in their groups die, and 2/2 scum (who can survive nks with 1 cop who can see them and 1 that can't) that feels unbalanced toward town with 2 cops. While 1 cop that must choose, some neighbors that 'might' get confirmed after scum in their groups die, and 2/2 (who can survive some nks and investigations) is more fair.

3/3 with neighbors and 1 cop could also be balanced I suppose. Waiting on zazy's reveal for final verdict I guess.

SocioPath wrote:From the amounts of neighbors and pairings, this game seems to rely heavily on symmetry, with a cop each having the ability to find half the scum and useless for the other half.
(Reminds me of the Elemental Cult Mafia game with 4 Cults and cops each being able to find 2 of the 4.)

Pretty sure cult cops in that game turned up cop and it said who they could and could not get guilties on in their death scenes. Moses just read as cop so he was not geared for sicilians only.

bird1111 · Post Post #1157 (ISO) » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:43 pm

You string up ZazieR with a Gun. You then check her house. You soon realize this was a mistake, as it is similar to Riceballtail, Kairyuu's, and Empking's. So she must have been a Townie.

ZazieR, Townie, lynched day 6 with a Gun.

Night 6 begins, choices due Wednesday@6:43 PM EST

bird1111 · Post Post #1158 (ISO) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:56 am

You wake up, and the go to the town square, expecting that at least one of the remaining people will not be joining you. Once it seems like everyone that is going to arrive has, you count to see how many of you are there; and soon realize that only 3 people showed up. You soon realize the missing person is PokerFace. You check his house and find it plain, meaning he was a Townie. You then look amongst each other, expecting to see that a mafia has won. However, it is soon clear that the other two, if mafia, are of opposite groups. Looks like you have one last shot at getting rid of the remaining Sicilian and/or Corsican.

PokerFace, Townie, killed Night 6

Day 7 begins, with 3 alive it is 2 to lynch.

armlx · Post Post #1159 (ISO) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:39 am

I'll decide once you both post a bit. I'm just gonna lurk a while.

SocioPath · Post Post #1160 (ISO) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:06 am

SocioPath wrote:I think I just realised why no one can be tied to oEJo, that is, if this game is actually 2-2.

The Fonz replaced in Dec. 30th, which was to replace a replacement that didn't post. oEJo was long dead before then. He died Nov. 25th, and first failed to die on Nov. 15th. The original player's last post (christiano drago) was on Oct. 25th, which only was an asking of replacement, long before oEJo was outted as being clumsy scum.

So ties of anything never had a chance to happen in the first place, and I'm reeeally starting to think that if ZazieR IS town, that The Fonz would be the other Corsican.
I'm definately investigating him tonight.

I echo back these comments.

Oh, and then there is the fact that The Fonz is the last Corsican due to a guilty investigation result.

Vote: The Fonz
Vote: Gun

I personally find it odd that I'm still alive, I guess there is a doc out there that likes me.

armlx · Post Post #1161 (ISO) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:31 pm

I think I just realised why no one can be tied to oEJo, that is, if this game is actually 2-2.

The Fonz replaced in Dec. 30th, which was to replace a replacement that didn't post. oEJo was long dead before then. He died Nov. 25th, and first failed to die on Nov. 15th. The original player's last post (christiano drago) was on Oct. 25th, which only was an asking of replacement, long before oEJo was outted as being clumsy scum.

So ties of anything never had a chance to happen in the first place, and I'm reeeally starting to think that if ZazieR IS town, that The Fonz would be the other Corsican.
I'm definately investigating him tonight.

Blatantly false. Ribwich posted up through December 5th.

SocioPath · Post Post #1162 (ISO) » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:59 pm

armlx wrote:Blatantly false. Ribwich posted up through December 5th.

Oh wow, I just noticed he was in the player filter, I hadn't noticed him before when I looked through several times, the 'r' as opposed to an 'R' threw me off.

The Fonz · Post Post #1163 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 am

Vote: Sociopath
Vote: Gun

Because it's obvious. Nothing has changed since you were certain we had to lynch him yesterday, arm. His claim stills contradicts the rules of the game. You're quite aware of how incredibly convenient it is that SocioPath has declared a guilty in lylo, as well. (I know there's a ton of wifom here too, but PokerFace dying over you is incredibly obviously his work too. Look at poker's last post of yesterday. He's convinced SP is scum. Why would I bother pulling that particular wifom, when you were the most obvious innocent left, AND poker was clearly going to vote with me if left alive).

armlx, lurking around waiting isn't going to work when a) the arguments are this simple and b) I'm on LA. Just lynch him and win the game for town already.

armlx · Post Post #1164 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:24 am

Meh, I'm done, that's all I needed to see.

Vote Gun, Vote Socio

bird1111 · Post Post #1165 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:53 am

You lynch SocioPath with a Gun. He curses you all for having gotten the last Corsican. armlx looks nervously at The Fonz, worried that he might be the last Sicillian. However, The Fonz reassures armlx that he is on the side of the town, and that he had been too busy protecting himself from either the Sicilians or Corsicans each night to have done any killing. Which means that the Town has won!

SocioPath, Corsican Goon, lynched with a Gun Day 7

Game Over, Town wins (except for ZTR and Santos I, who were modkilled). The Fonz, Townie with immunity to one scumgroup per night, and armlx, Neighbor; survive and win.

bird1111 · Post Post #1166 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:55 am

Final status:
Alive, bold unconfirmed:
armlx, Neighbor, survives and wins
The Fonz, replacing ribwich, replacing christiano drago, Townie with immunity to one group per night, survives and wins

Dead:
Santos, Neighbor Neutral Survivor, modkilled Day 1
Riceballtail, Townie, killed Night 1
oEJo, Corsican Neighbor, failed to be lynched by a Rope Day 1, Lynched by a Gun Day 2
No one died Night 2
Detspeed, Sicilian Neighbor, lynched by a Rope Day 3
Kairyuu, Townie, killed Night 3
Moses le fou, Cop, killed Night 3
ZTR, Vanilla Townie Neutral Survivor, modkilled Day 4
Empking, Townie, killed Night 4
hp [leaves], Neighbor, killed Night 4
Santos II, Sicilian Goon, lynched by a Rope Day 5
CarnCarn, Neighbor, killed Night 5
ZazieR, Townie, lynched by a Gun Day 6
PokerFace, Townie, killed Night 6
SocioPath, Corsican Goon, lynched by a Gun Day 7

bird1111 · Post Post #1167 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:55 am

Night Choices:
Night 1:
ribwich chose to be immune to Corsican
Moses investigated Santos II for Corsican ties, got innocent
Corsicans townie killed Santos II
Sicilians townie killed Riceballtail

Night 2:
ribwich choose to be immune to Sicilians
Moses investigated ribwich for Corsican ties, got innocent
Sicilians failed to send in a kill
Corsicans townie killed Save the Dragons/Detspeed

Night 3:
ribwich failed to send in a choice
Moses investigated Santos II for Sicilian, was told that died before investigating.
Sicilians townie killed Moses
Corsicans townie killed Kairyuu

Night 4:
ribwich failed to send in a choice
Moses le fou is dead
Sicilians towniekill Empking
Corsicans towiekill hp [leaves]

Night 5:
The Fonz protected himself from Corsicans
Moses le fou was dead
No living Sicilians
Corsicans townie killed CarnCarn

Night 6:
The Fonz protected himself from Corsicans
Moses le fou was dead
No living Sicilians
Corsicans townie killed PokerFace

bird1111 · Post Post #1168 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:56 am

Setup:
1 Sicilian Mafia Goon
1 Sicilian Mafia Neighbor (group 1)
1 Corsican Mafia Goon
1 Corsican Mafia Neighbor (group 2)
1 Group 1 Mason
1 Group 2 Mason
2 Group 3 Masons
1 Confirmed-Sane Cop
1 UnKillable to one scumgroup of his choice per night
6 Townies

Role PM's:
You are a Sicilian Mafia Goon, your partner is (XXX), a Sicilian Mafia Neighbor. Each night, you and your partner may talk to each other and send me the name of a player and which of pro-town and Corsican Mafia you think that player is. If you are right and nothing else prevents it, that player will die. During the day, you will pretend to be pro-town and vote on a player to be lynched and which group the lynch should affect. You win when the Sicilian Mafia Group has at least half the living players and nothing can prevent them from having half the players.

You are a Sicilian Mafia Neighbor, your partner is (YYY), a Sicilian Mafia Goon. Each night, you and your partner may talk to each other and send me the name of a player and which of pro-town and Corsican Mafia you think that player is. If you are right and nothing else prevents it, that player will die. Also, during the Night, you may talk with (AAA), your Neighbor. You do not know if he is pro-town or Corsican, you just know him well enough to talk to him. During the day, you will pretend to be pro-town and vote on a player to be lynched and which group the lynch should affect. You win when the Sicilian Mafia Group has at least half the living players and nothing can prevent them from having half the players.

You are a Corsican Mafia Goon, your partner is (WWW), a Corsican Mafia Neighbor. Each night, you and your partner may talk to each other and send me the name of a player and which of pro-town and Sicilian Mafia you think that player is. If you are right and nothing else prevents it, that player will die. During the day, you will pretend to be pro-town and vote on a player to be lynched and which group the lynch should affect. You win when the Corsican Mafia Group has at least half the living players and nothing can prevent them from having half the players.

You are a Corsican Mafia Neighbor, your partner is (VVV), a Corsican Mafia Goon. Each night, you and your partner may talk to each other and send me the name of a player and which of pro-town and Sicilian Mafia you think that player is. If you are right and nothing else prevents it, that player will die. Also, during the Night, you may talk with (BBB), your Neighbor. You do not know if he is pro-town or Sicilian, you just know him well enough to talk to him. During the day, you will pretend to be pro-town and vote on a player to be lynched and which group the lynch should affect. You win when the Corsican Mafia Group has at least half the living players and nothing can prevent them from having at least half the living players.

You are a Neighbor, your neighbor is (XXX), each night you may talk to him. You do not know what alignment he is, only that you can talk to him. During the day, you vote on who you think is a member of the one of the Mafia and whether the lynch should be by rope or by gun. You win when all the Sicilians and Corsicans are dead.

You are a Neighbor, your neighbor is (WWW), each night you may talk to him. You do not know what alignment he is, only that you can talk to him. During the day, you vote on who you think is a member of the one of the Mafia and whether the lynch should be by rope or by gun. You win when all the Sicilians and Corsicans are dead.

You are a Neighbor, your neighbor is (CCC), each night you may talk to him. You do not know what alignment he is, only that you can talk to him. During the day, you vote on who you think is a member of the one of the Mafia and whether the lynch should be by rope or by gun. You win when all the Sicilians and Corsicans are dead.

You are a Neighbor, your neighbor is (DDD), each night you may talk to him. You do not know what alignment he is, only that you can talk to him. During the day, you vote on who you think is a member of the one of the Mafia and whether the lynch should be by rope or by gun. You win when all the Sicilians and Corsicans are dead.

You are a Cop. Each night you may choose to investigate to see if they are a Corsican or a Sicilian. You know that you are Sane. During the day, you vote on who you think is a member of one of the Mafia and whether the lynch should be by rope or by gun. You win when all the Sicillians and Corsicans are dead.

You are a Townie who is unkillable to one scumgroup per night. You know how the Sicilains and Corsicans kill, and can take measures to prevent them from killing you. However, the methods of preventing the kills are mutually exclusive, so you must choose which group's kill you are immune to. During the day, you vote for who you think is a member of one of the Mafia and whether the lynch should be by rope or by gun. You win when all the Sicillians and Coriscans are dead.

You are a Townie , during the night you sleep in, and during the day you vote on who you think is a member of the one of the Mafia and whether the lynch should be by rope or by gun. You win when all the Sicilians and Corsicans are dead.

Role assignments:
Sineish/Santos II is the Sicilian Mafia Goon
Save the Dragons/Datspeed is the Sicilian Mafia Neighbor
hp [leaves] is Save the Dragons' Neighbor
SocioPath is the Corsican Mafia Goon
oEJo is the Corsican Mafia Neighbor
Santos is oEJo's Neighbor
armlx and CarnCarn are Neighbors
Tovarish/Moses le fou is the Sane Cop
christiano drago/ribwich/The Fonz is the Townie w/ one immunity per night
Everyone else is a Townie.

armlx · Post Post #1169 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:30 am

Fonz, what I was exactly looking for was you being to the point about it. The more you tried to weasel it the more it would appear to me you set up yesterday as a paranoia exercise.

I still think lynching Socio as Corsican yesterday was optimal, but the other play was legitimate.

Also, why didn't you full claim?

Also, good set up mod.

Website · Post Post #1170 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:49 am

Thanks for the game bird. A very good game for me to play before temp leave. It had neighbors in various combinations and was run while at a time I was eventually able to replace into. Thanx big time

The game kinda feels balanced towards the town now especially with fonzie's role.

Santos made that claim presumably thinking he could trick us into using the wrong weapon I guess. That's the only thing that makes sence and I guess it isn't such a stupid suggestion now. But Socio gave that BS cop claim that pointed out the right weapon to use. Socio knew the right weapon because he was in the other group. I can now see why Socio is killed when he is scum. That claim was bad and broke rule. He should have made his claim to encompass the rules so he could be a cop identical to what we expected of moses. More than one cop is possible in a game so its not like he was going to be counter claimed.

I so called this:

bird1111 wrote:
Night Choices:
Night 1:
ribwich chose to be immune to Corsican
Moses investigated Santos II for Corsican ties, got innocent

Corsicans townie killed Santos II

Sicilians townie killed Riceballtail

Night 2:
ribwich choose to be immune to Sicilians
Moses investigated ribwich for Corsican ties, got innocent
Sicilians failed to send in a kill

Corsicans townie killed Save the Dragons/Detspeed

Good game everyone. Fonz had and awesome plan and it would have stopped 3 if there was three. When he came up with it I knew he had to be town, but the only way I could convince him I was town too was to follow through with it. Sorry about the lynch there Zazy. You were at the wrong place at the wrong time but it wasn't like we weren't gauranteed to beat 2/2 by that point already so hope you ain't mad.

I wouldn't call his thing a paranoia exercise for 2 reasons. It made perfect sence too me. Socio was obv scum with that claim while Fonz and Zazy were just possible scum. Lynching either possibility pretty much confirmed the other and the desire to lynch one did the same. What he said in the posts after made it feel like he read my mind. Very good plan for 3/3 though it was unecessary. We could have lynched Socio a day before and won but I guess erroring with the side of caution wasn't so bad.

Fonzie likly didn't full claim because a townie claimed nk imunity makes little sence especially when scum is able to be imune to a single scum groups kills already. Making a full claim would draw suspicion from town while keeping the skill secret kept the skill hidden from scum and kept him more protected. Good move just claiming Vanilla me thinks. Nice job on plan and claim buddy.

This thing was good fun. GG all. Thanx Bird

CarnCarn · Post Post #1171 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:10 am

I agree, this was a good setup by bird1111.

Off the top of my head, the one thing I'm curious to hear is from Santos about why he claimed scum.

Also, armlx not dying last night gave me a pause and for a moment I thought he was actually scum. But, then I thought about Socio's claim again and it clearly contradicted the rules so I went back to Socio-scum.

Really good work finishing this off for a town win guys.

Kairyuu · Post Post #1172 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:42 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Loved the game bird!

@all: I think this is probably the most accurate I have ever been in a game so far. I accused 5 people of being scum, and 4 of them were the 4 scum. Only thing I didn't get was the allegiance of two of them.

-is happy-

Riceballtail · Post Post #1173 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:54 am

I was so glad to be killed N1, because this game was going nowhere fast.

bird1111 · Post Post #1174 (ISO) » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:27 am

Mod comments:

Setup:
Personally, I think the setup was too predictable, especially the Neighbors. Once the town knew about the neighbors (as happened D1), they had a decent idea of the setup (minus powerroles) for the rest of the game. Also, I probably shouldn't have put those examples of roles in the rules, but oh well.

Santos Modkill and reactions:
Continuing day after modkilling Santos was a dumb mistake from my part, but oh well. However, BM's attempting to get people to post their Role PM's despite the auto-loss from being modkilled was unethical in several ways; which made it an easy decision to make it clear that I would not continue days after modkills as a result of his attempts.

ZTR Modkill:
I agree fully with Tarhalindur's decision to modkill ZTR for that, especially since a mod-kill had already resulted from a posted Role PM in the game.

In general:
Though while I think I could have done a better job at making the setup less predictable, I think the game went decently overall; and certainly gave me some important lessons.