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Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:21 am
by Xylthixlm
curiouskarmadog wrote: that is not a defense
So far your attacks consist mostly of swearing and unfounded assertions. Feel free to bring up specific actions of mine you'd like explained. Otherwise, I'm just going to rely on the other protown players in the game to evaluate your attacks for themselves. My crying "OMG WTF bullshit" would only muddy things, much like your crying "jesus fucking christ" is doing.
I saw a quote the other day which I think applies here:
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them." -Thomas Jefferson
curiouskarmadog wrote:I do not think I am scummy because I am not scum...
Have you ever been mislynched? Everyone is scummy sometimes, even when they're town. If you say you're definitely not scummy, you are either horribly overconfident or lying out your ass.
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:26 am
by Xylthixlm
curiouskarmadog wrote:bullshit..that is your defense of your scummy actions today? What a wide net you throw...."2 of these 3 are scum....I got one lynched...now there is just two...they must be the scum".....in this post you state the CK wasnt very scummy in his posts..well he didnt post anything after that...and Sens is lurking...so the only reason you are suggesting Sens is scum is because Dizzy was town (that you fucking lynched, I might add)...BULLSHIT....no sir, you are the lynch today.
I've found that process of elimination is very good for finding scum near endgame. I think ML and dahill/CDB are town; that leaves you and SensFan. Totally logical, no bullshit required.
One of the great advantages of POE as a scumhunting technique, by the way, is that it automatically catches people who haven't done anything scummy because they haven't done anything at all...
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:04 am
by MacavityLock
curiouskarmadog wrote:Xylthixlm wrote:
curiouskarmadog wrote:do you usually misrepresent facts in other games?
I don't think I'm misrepresenting them in this one.
would you like examples?
I would.
SensFan wrote:*I purposely posted no content before deadline
Give us a pro-town reason for this.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:52 am
by curiouskarmadog
Xyl, I have been bringing up things that have been bothering me the entire game, so dont act like I havent...dont like I havent asked you questions to explain yourself and dont act like you dont go to the ends of the earth to avoid thosse question....looking back, you dont see when I started cussing? I was getting pissed and fustrated with your avoidance and the way you try to scoot around points without addressing them...scummy....Scot saw it, he called you on it.....now he is dead, so dont act like I havent..I will repost ALL the SPECIFIC points I have an issue with, if I thought you would address them...fuck, I have even had to start bolding my questions, but you still "overlook" them until I call you out over and over again.
Again you are trying to avoid or find a reason not to address my issues with you, by mispresenting my attacks as mostly assertions or swearing...when they indeed are not....
Xyl, also, (speaking of rhetorical)...anyone who has played this game more than 2-3 times has been mislynched...what a useless question used to distract...what was the point of that question and how does it have anything to do with my attack on you? Again, you misrepresent what I said. I didnt just come out and say " i am not scummy"...you asked me...
Xylthixlm wrote:
Anyways, you seem quite confident that your play isn't scummy. Did you actually analyze your own play, deliberately avoid scummy things, that sort of thing? Or are you just assuming that nothing you do could possibly be scummy?
I havent analyzed my own play in this game...what is the point? i dont feel that my play has been scummy, because I am town. Everything I do is to try to catch scum....What is the point of this line of questioning?
but this brings up an interesting point.....all you really have said this game is ..CKD is obviously scum or some variant (speaking of assertions, hypocrite)...but you have not put forward a clear case what so ever....I request you do so...I also request for you to explain if you think I am scum, why you havent done so thus far...if you feel you have..post number please....
I am not bolding the questions (again)...but please answer them (I should have to put this in every post to you)
I will post my swear free case against Xyl later this week..it will take some time (which will include his numerous misrepresentations, ML)..I will keep reading the thread, but have a feeling this is going to be a big post.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:55 am
by curiouskarmadog
Xylthixlm wrote:
One of the great advantages of POE as a scumhunting technique, by the way, is that it automatically catches people who haven't done anything scummy because they haven't done anything at all...
interesting..RR didnt do anything, until you replaced him...CK/Sens have done less....if you really want to get to the bones of the matter..Scot was the only person who actually has done something...perhaps you need to define "done" for me...
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:47 am
by Xylthixlm
curiouskarmadog wrote:Xyl, also, (speaking of rhetorical)...anyone who has played this game more than 2-3 times has been mislynched...what a useless question used to distract...what was the point of that question and how does it have anything to do with my attack on you? Again, you misrepresent what I said. I didnt just come out and say " i am not scummy"...you asked me...
curiouskarmadog wrote:I havent analyzed my own play in this game...what is the point? i dont feel that my play has been scummy, because I am town. Everything I do is to try to catch scum....What is the point of this line of questioning?
This started with your saying "The entire damn game you constantly try to paint my play as scummy even though it is not." This is the classic OMGUS attack: "my play isn't scummy, you should know it isn't scummy, so the fact that you're attacking me for it proves you're scum". Which usually turns out to be wrong, but anyways. I was trying to figure out why you said you're not scummy; I
do
see you as scummy, as do other people. And yes, I thought your answer might help reveal your alignment.
(Just as a curiosity, I've never been mislynched in a forum game. Scum keep trying though. I'm expecting the record to fall any game now. It almost fell in Lynch All Lurkers when elvis_knits noticed I had been on every single townie bandwagon.)
curiouskarmadog wrote:but this brings up an interesting point.....all you really have said this game is ..CKD is obviously scum or some variant (speaking of assertions, hypocrite)...but you have not put forward a clear case what so ever....I request you do so...I also request for you to explain if you think I am scum, why you havent done so thus far...if you feel you have..post number please....
Hmm... you're right, I haven't made the case clearly because it's not based on things you've done so much as it's based on things you
haven't
done. Best I've said it is in
this post, where I said "CKD's behavior this game has definitely been geared towards generating suspicion and pushing lynches. Nothing he's done so far gives me a feeling he's town."
Specifically, I expect actual townies to jump out at some point in the game and say "No, I don't think X is scum, we shouldn't lynch them". Scum do too, but less, and X is often a scumbuddy. In my read I don't recall you doing that anywhere; would you like to point out some places where you did?
You were also happy to answer the "who is scummy" question but didn't answer the "whose flip surprised you" question. In fact, when I gave you a second chance you answered "nothing surprises me". It's not conclusive, but that is scummy.
In general I don't see anything that makes me think you are town, rather than scum eager to push lynches and not particularly caring on who. Everyone else in the game looks townier than you do. So you're my #1 suspect.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:58 am
by Xylthixlm
Oh yeah
curiouskarmadog wrote:I was getting pissed and fustrated with your avoidance and the way you try to scoot around points without addressing them...scummy....Scot saw it, he called you on it.....now he is dead, so dont act like I havent
I try to address points where there's actually something that I know and no one else does, like questions about why I did things or who I think is scummy. If it's just a question which anyone could answer by looking through my posts, I'm probably not going to bother.
As for scot being dead, total WIFOM. Scum could have killed scot to frame me, they could have killed scot because he was vig (or they thought he was SK), they could have killed scum because one of his other suspicions was right, they could have even picked his name out of a hat. Probably some combination of those.
Funny that scot was voting
you
until he switched to me near the end, isn't it.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:03 am
by curiouskarmadog
no time, just saw this and wanted to comment
Xylthixlm wrote:
(Just as a curiosity, I've never been mislynched in a forum game. Scum keep trying though. I'm expecting the record to fall any game now. It almost fell in Lynch All Lurkers when elvis_knits noticed I had been on every single townie bandwagon.)
what? how many games have you played...that is really hard to swallow...I immediately want to meta this to see if this is a true statement..but for the life of me, I see no scum motivation or reason to lie about that. so it would be a waste of time either way. at any point, if it is true...then I can understand from your POV the mislynch question.
sort of an oog comment...everyone else has been mislynched once in their mafia career right? if it is just me, then maybe I AM too emotional when I play...I am constantly mislynched for being "emotional or (and this one is my favorite because I have caught so much scum using this.) "overly defensive"...guess my title is appropriate.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:14 am
by Xylthixlm
From my wiki, excluding games that didn't finish or didn't have lynches:
Newbie 509 (mafia, survived)
Mini 554 (mafia, lynched)
Mafia 74: Minimally Flavoured (mafia, nightkilled)
Invitational 10 (town, survived)
Newbie 699 (town, endgamed)
Mind Screw Mafia 3 (mafia, nightkilled)
Mafia 89: Revenge (town, nightkilled)
Mafia 88- Return to New Catania (neutral, nightkilled)
Medieval Mafia (town, nightkilled)
Mini 766 - Soulshift Mafia (town, survived)
Lynch All Lurkers Mafia (town, survived)
Notable (SK, survived)
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:52 am
by SensFan
Xylthixlm wrote:As for scot being dead, total WIFOM. Scum could have killed scot to frame me, they could have killed scot because he was vig (or they thought he was SK),
they could have killed scum
because one of his other suspicions was right, they could have even picked his name out of a hat. Probably some combination of those.
Slip.
I know, I'm not sure if Town or Scum is more likely to have done that, but I figured I'd point it out.
---
ML, its because I felt the odds of me being NK'd were about zero, so I might as well not give Scum the chance to know how I felt, when they were deciding on their kill last night.
---
From my read:
I think CDB and ckd are Scum.
Xyl I don't have a read on, but he's likely town by process of elimination
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:03 am
by MacavityLock
SensFan wrote:ML, its because I felt the odds of me being NK'd were about zero, so I might as well not give Scum the chance to know how I felt, when they were deciding on their kill last night.
But you did read the game? Given people's suspicions of CK and you, why did you think it would be better for you
not
to be nightkilled?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:05 am
by SensFan
MacavityLock wrote:SensFan wrote:ML, its because I felt the odds of me being NK'd were about zero, so I might as well not give Scum the chance to know how I felt, when they were deciding on their kill last night.
But you did read the game? Given people's suspicions of CK and you, why did you think it would be better for you
not
to be nightkilled?
I was unlikely to be NK'd whether or not I said anything.
But saying things lets Scum know how I feel about people, which could be crucial for them.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:10 am
by Xylthixlm
SensFan wrote:MacavityLock wrote:SensFan wrote:ML, its because I felt the odds of me being NK'd were about zero, so I might as well not give Scum the chance to know how I felt, when they were deciding on their kill last night.
But you did read the game? Given people's suspicions of CK and you, why did you think it would be better for you
not
to be nightkilled?
I was unlikely to be NK'd whether or not I said anything.
But saying things lets Scum know how I feel about people, which could be crucial for them.
This doesn't make sense. Information helps the town.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:12 am
by ChannelDelibird
SensFan wrote:MacavityLock wrote:SensFan wrote:ML, its because I felt the odds of me being NK'd were about zero, so I might as well not give Scum the chance to know how I felt, when they were deciding on their kill last night.
But you did read the game? Given people's suspicions of CK and you, why did you think it would be better for you
not
to be nightkilled?
I was unlikely to be NK'd whether or not I said anything.
But saying things lets Scum know how I feel about people, which could be crucial for them.
It would also have let us know how you felt about people, which might have helped us avoid yesterday's mislynch. I'm not liking this at all.
At the moment I'm seeing Sens as scum, and one of CKD/Xyl. I'm still trying to figure out which one of those two, though.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:48 am
by Xylthixlm
Xylthixlm wrote:SensFan wrote:MacavityLock wrote:SensFan wrote:ML, its because I felt the odds of me being NK'd were about zero, so I might as well not give Scum the chance to know how I felt, when they were deciding on their kill last night.
But you did read the game? Given people's suspicions of CK and you, why did you think it would be better for you
not
to be nightkilled?
I was unlikely to be NK'd whether or not I said anything.
But saying things lets Scum know how I feel about people, which could be crucial for them.
This doesn't make sense. Information helps the town.
I thought about this a bit more. It only makes sense from SensFan's point of view if you assume that
he didn't care who was lynched
. Then he would have no reason to say anything, and his argument about denying information to the scum would work. But he says now that he thought ckd was scummy; why didn't he say that yesterday to try to influence the lynch towards ckd? If he had voted ckd before I changed my vote, ckd would likely have gotten lynched. Getting scum lynched is definitely more important than denying scum information, from a town POV.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:10 am
by MacavityLock
Xylthixlm wrote:I thought about this a bit more. It only makes sense from SensFan's point of view if you assume that
he didn't care who was lynched
. Then he would have no reason to say anything, and his argument about denying information to the scum would work.
I agree. It's basically saying that scumhunting yesterday was worth less than scumhunting today. Given that we didn't know whether we were in LYLO or not yesterday, this is pretty damning.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:54 pm
by MacavityLock
FYI, I'm moving tomorrow, so I don't expect to post much until the 2nd (assuming no internet issues).
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:32 pm
by Shanba
getting prods out
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:58 am
by curiouskarmadog
not going to be able to post with any length until Friday
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:41 am
by Xylthixlm
ChannelDelibird wrote:At the moment I'm seeing Sens as scum, and one of CKD/Xyl. I'm still trying to figure out which one of those two, though.
How about we lynch SensFan today and worry about me vs ckd tomorrow?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:21 am
by ChannelDelibird
Xylthixlm wrote:ChannelDelibird wrote:At the moment I'm seeing Sens as scum, and one of CKD/Xyl. I'm still trying to figure out which one of those two, though.
How about we lynch SensFan today and worry about me vs ckd tomorrow?
The lack of a SensFan vote in this post is somewhat worrying. Hints at CKD/Xyl scumpartnership looking to use my vote as a quicklynch platform...
(I am actually partial to doing exactly as you say, but I would have expected a corresponding vote from you in the quoted post.)
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:25 am
by Xylthixlm
I considered it, but I'd like to give SensFan a chance to dig himself a deeper hole first.
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:31 am
by ChannelDelibird
I would have been more comfortable if that disclaimer was written into the post in the first place. It read very much like an invitation to me to vote for him there and then.
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:40 am
by Xylthixlm
ChannelDelibird wrote:I would have been more comfortable if that disclaimer was written into the post in the first place. It read very much like an invitation to me to vote for him there and then.
If I wanted you to vote then and there, I would have voted in the post.
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:08 am
by SensFan
So, just so I'm clear...
I replace into the game, take more time than expected to read the 40-page game, realize I should just hold back my suspicions until today, and I'm being lynched for that?