Mafiascum.net

Anen, walk me through exactly what are town reading Elk and scum reading Ank for because your catch ups sugest it's very very different reasoning than why I have those reads. Also how do you have no read on Tammy/Oversoul at all? (You can ignore this if you've already gone into it since your last catch up wall).

↑ Tammy wrote:As far as it making sense because bbt is considering a you/ces team, I get that and it was one of the things that was floating around in my mind yesterday/today, but what is bugging me is how he came to that concern. It came from a conversation with cheery dog when cheery moved his vote from you to ces. The interaction just looks really oily, but I want to look at the evolution of that thought once again because something is rotten in the state of Denmark!

I think the way he came to that conclusion makes sense, it's likely something that was in the back of his head and when someone suggested it in the thread he gave it more thought since it'd be a case of not just him considering it. I mean I always have team theories in my head, I post some of them, I don't post them all because I think some of them are crock-pot and can't explain them other than "gut" really so I don't take issue with that part of him at all. What I hated from that post of his thought was the "using/stating team mates thoughts = scum that's attempting to give themselves an out" since a) CD himself was using Gamma a team-mates reads to explain his vote and BBT had stated Titus had an opposite read than him so he'd have to understand how team reads can differ and b) He should know me better enough than to know that I'd vote with my team reads rather than what I think.

↑ Regfan wrote:I'm jealous. I was just drinking bailey-type stuff last night.

Not sure I buy Anens explanation of the mix up in Post 1128, it's part (3). Mind taking a look at that while I read through? I think a team mate just commenting on a game saying "they look ok" is an odd thing to occur and I don't understand how he'd read that as 3 specific people are town read by his team. Might be the fact that I'm still half asleep but the whole thing doesn't make sense.

I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for. I have a really hard time reading Anenin's catchup because they're just comments without context at times and it feels so disjointed.

I don't mind stream of conscious type replace in catchups as I do them sometimes but there's no end of cohesion, and his comments don't make a whole lot of sense to me.

But, I do await Cheery and BBT proclaiming him scum because he and wgeurts are disagreeing on CES though!

Okay wait, no I don't get it. Yeah I don't know.

Okay caught up fully.

We're not lynching CES. People need to vote CD here. CD's reads have essentially been him pushing players that were pushing him, key examples are Llamable who he backed of when I pointed out how his vote there was scummy, myself and then straight onto CES who was the counter wagon to him at the time (And it was a really slimy change of vote). Add on top of that he's avoided stating reads on majority of the room and the fact that he's not really attempted to scumhunt at all.

↑ Aneninen wrote:(4) Meta-based reads from Regfan, 814. Both CES and BBT were hard townread by him here. I only mention it because I saw in his latest post that CES was weak-town and BBT undecided. I want to see his read progression in his later posts. Regfan, was it 1089?

I never had a 'superstrong' town read on CES, he's always been one of my weaker ones, if anything it's stronger no than it was then so I don't get this question from you at all? I also think I've gone into my hesitation BBT, I really dislike his angle towards pushing me here and his avoidance of lynching CD, it makes so much sense if he's scum with CD. I still find(found) his early game play townish and more towards his town meta but his latter stuff here isn't.

↑ Tammy wrote:I mean if anything ces is being more open with his thoughts than I've seen from him in some games.

Agree with this entirely and while it weirded our team our earlier on (Empire was saying it didn't match his meta as either alignment) I can understand Town!CES doing it in a TM setup where he thinks he needs to 'prove his worth as town'. Also agree that I think most of the push on CES is playstyle things.

I'll quote the issue I have with Anen, will take a few minutes, don't vanish on me!

Here's all the relevant posts:

↑ Psyche wrote:My teammates say I should vote for Aero again just because of the people on his wagon.

↑ Psyche wrote:my team is rather useless at the moment
they thought it was safe to vote aero because the others voting him seemed legit

↑ Regfan wrote:

↑ Psyche wrote:my team is rather useless at the moment
they thought it was safe to vote aero

because the others voting him seemed legit

The bolded here is what I want an explanation on; does that mean they had a town read on majority of the wagon or purely thought they were competent player? If it's the earlier would like to hear the exact reads and stances they've given you. Wouldn't mind your own thoughts too.

↑ Psyche wrote:I don't think they put much thought into it. So probably the latter.
I really wonder how other people's teammates manage to keep up with so many games simultaneously!

↑ Aneninen wrote:Also, Cogito Ergo Sum, you asked about our team's opinion. There was a question from my predecessor whether Aeronaut might be scum. Wgeurts checked the Aeronaut-wagon and a couple of pages of the game and said something like "I don't know them personally but Regfan, Llamarable and CES look town, thus Aeronaut can be scum".
I don't think I've already reached the part of the game it's referring to, so I can't decide yet whether it's significant or not.

↑ Regfan wrote:I don't think Tammys "He stopped to mention something from the team thread" point of Anen is a town-tell though given the sheer amount that CES has pushed him to post teams thoughts in the thread. In fact I'm slightly bugged by his "Wgeurts checked the Aeronaut-wagon and a couple of pages of the game and said something like "I don't know them personally but Regfan, Llamarable and CES look town, thus Aeronaut can be scum"." element in Post 1077 given that Psyches answer when I asked him in Post 680 whether they wanted him to join the wagon becasue a) They town-read people on the wagon or b) They thought the players on the wagon were competent and his answer in Post 681 was effectively b while Anen's is a.

↑ Aneninen wrote:(3) Regfan, 680 – You meant this post in 1119. To tell the truth, Wgeurts said (I'm paraphrasing it again) "they look ok". I thought he meant "they look town" and I don't know why Psyche interpreted it as "they look competent". But if it's important I can still ask Wgeurts about it if he remembers that.
I hope he will, because he's just started helping me in reading this gam

So effectively Psyche went from "my team told me I should vote him due to the wagon make up" to "I don't think they put much thought into alignments so probably just due to the players". Annen comes in and claims his team had said "Reg/Llama/CES look town so Aero is a good vote" and then backtracked to say his team had just said "they look okay" which wasn't a comment on our alignment but rather our competency level.

↑ Antihero wrote:'mkay, so what's your issue w/ cheery dog?

I really don't see him trying to figure out the game. His pushes have been odd and more snarky to people trying to figure out the game than inquisitive. His move onto the CES wagon didn't feel right as he'd been voting regfan for a silly reason, and then decided CES was regfan's partner because CES was trying to get him to vote ankamius as if CES would feel the need to go out of his way to save his buddy from one vote on his wagon.

I just don't buy his thought process is a town thought process.

Oh I also hated his question to me from katsuki. It was really throwaway. He literally said Kats asked why I wanted to know if his teammates were reading the game and had any thoughts. Like what kind of question is that?

Tammy, what do you make of the quoted posts above.

Also which of my reads do you currently disagree with/why?

TBF I think those are problematic, but I also don't place a whole lot of stock in psyche making much sense or conveying thoughts in a way that is accurate.

I mean from Psyche's posts I would have said he was making up team reads, but not sure with Anen's commentary. Although I don't know what asking wgeurts what he thought about it now would matter seeing as how it's asking for Psyche and the Anen's relaying of comments from the thread.

I've only played one game with Psyche before and he was part of a Marquis hydra and all he did was troll and snark at people and just in general act like a jerk and I was ready to policy lynch the hydra just to get rid of them because they drove me insane, but they had a friendly neighbor shot so I don't know if he felt like he could just act whatever way he wanted to due to that.

So yeah, I just don't know.

I'm not sure why BBT had a town read on psyche to begin with though.

↑ Tammy wrote:So the town reads I feel really good about are zach and antihero.

I feel relatively good about Regfan, ika, and ankamius

Leftovers, need to read through:

Anenin/psyche - psyche did literally nothing, can't read that, waiting for anenins catch up.

Bbt - had a strong scum read there that I'm wavering on, probably in part because everyone seems to think I'm wrong. Bbt - what made you drop your scum read on my slot?

Ces, cheery dog.

I'd probably be fine with lynching most of the leftovers. I just don't think the whole scum team is in there which has me wondering where I went wrong on a town read.

Antihero - when did Oversoul become a decent town read for you? I thought Regfan was your only town read on the aero wagon.

My reads are here. I'm not exactly sure where your reads are at this moment.

I think the read we disagree on is ankamius.

↑ Antihero wrote:what's your issue w/ cheery dog's CES vote, zach?

It's based on a connection to Regfan and has allowed him to stay parked on CES without doing a damn thing to actually further any kind of case on Reg.

I know what you mean re; not trusting Psyches posts, had Anen come in and said that he was making the whole thing up and the team never left any comments about the wagon I'd have felt better about the slot than I do now though? I really don't like Anens back tracking and explanation changing from "had you 3 as town" to "thought you were okay players", I don't see how he'd mix that up nor do I see a team just leaving the comment of "those 3 are okay".

Yeah I'm not seeing that Ank town-read, elaborate on it for me please?

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:Time to go back over stuff I skimmed with the phone yesterday.

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:With more information about Regfan having brought up wallflowers and then bussing that early in the game. The thing about trying to do associate tells is overkill there.
It by itself isn't much to go on, but it's mostly fake content as that type of reads just doesn't get there accurately that early in the game.

Now you're just trying to claim the post is suspicious regardless of what happened.

I'm putting out what Gamma gave me. I don't personally care about the post, hence why I didn't quote it earlier.

↑ Tammy wrote:I think I'd be fine with a cheery dog lynch. I just caught that part about Regfan unvoting to get on cheery dogs good side. I can't imagine a world where scum!regfan would need to get on cheery dogs good side, and I don't believe he even believes that.

Don't all scum want to stop town from scumreading them? My wagon also hadn't exactly been picking up that much pace.

So gloaty.

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:

↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I think it really is about time Cheery Dog got lynched. He hasn't made a credibly motivated vote all game and his last few posts are pretty much just mudslinging.

Is this seriously all you're going to chase my lynch on now?
If I'm acting mudslinging now, it's because YOU don't actually have any basis on your OWN reads still.

I don't actually know if I have a good read on you, because you're just making me mad with stupid stuff that means absolutely nothing towards finding out my alignment, but unlike my llama vote and removal, nothing has made me see you coming from a town perspective in regards to the meaningless stuff.

LOOK AT ME BEING A REASONABLE PLAYER REMOVING MY VOTE ON THE CONFIRMED TOWN PLAYER. THIS TOTALLY DEMONSTRATES THAT I HAVE A TOWN THOUGHT PROCESS.

Oh my god kill it now please.

↑ Tammy wrote:Because some of the things you have him as scum for aren't really things that apply to ces!scum.

He doesn't have "shat his pants" reactions as really the only thing ces!scum fears is chamber. Or at least that used to be true.

He also doesn't really give reads on players in the game other than who he's pushing or maybe defending.

He could be scum but not for the reasons your listing. It's just that people have a tendency to scum read ces for play style, and he can be a difficult read. I'm trying to figure out if the people scum reading him are doing it for play style.

I mean if anything ces is being more open with his thoughts than I've seen from him in some games.

From what I remember from YOLO way back when, you kind of figure out CES is scum when you can't really see him fitting into the game as town. That's how I remember working him out as scum there.

↑ Regfan wrote:I know what you mean re; not trusting Psyches posts, had Anen come in and said that he was making the whole thing up and the team never left any comments about the wagon I'd have felt better about the slot than I do now though? I really don't like Anens back tracking and explanation changing from "had you 3 as town" to "thought you were okay players", I don't see how he'd mix that up nor do I see a team just leaving the comment of "those 3 are okay".

Yeah I'm not seeing that Ank town-read, elaborate on it for me please?

Oh I missed this. It got sandwiched into zach's posts and I was wondering where you went.

I think Ank just comes off as naturally scummy. I have two weird concerns about Ank. The one I mentioned as being too protown as my limited experience with Ank is someone who kinda is lurky and reads people off of suspicion he receives, so his being a bit proactive in a sense in his early posts made me concerned that he was trying to appear town in a way he doesn't when town, if that makes sense. I do wonder about him asking me to read the ces v him/cheery dog interaction and the recent post about anenin trying to break up a town block but that only concerns me in a a PEOPLEARETRYINGTOMANIPULATEME kind of way and might not be fair because it could also be due to the fact that we have recent experience together. But his posts where he insists that he's not good as scum, that he would replace out if he were scum (though tbf looking at his team mates this isn't as strong), and his giving his links about the times he sucked as scum all read true to me. If he had a team which comprised of strong scum players that could help him behind the scenes then I'd be a bit more weary of this, but he doesn't.

So um, I completely forgot that HOOPLA is on Cheery's team.

She has NOTHING to say about this game? Really?

Come on now? How can this slot possibly be town?

I'm mostly trying to switch around my playstyle so I can be more consistent since I generally have either really strong games where I obvtown with solid reads or I just manage to fuck up the game so hard that town falls into a rut.

I never actually said I'd replace out if I was scum. I meant understanding when I said resonate.

↑ Ankamius wrote:

↑ Zachrulez wrote:I don't even need to claim tokens. I'm just going to outright say I'd have swapped out of a scum role by now.

I can say exactly the same thing (and it's provable). Would you say that's a strong argument for me being town?

This is what I was referring to.

↑ Ankamius wrote:I'm mostly trying to switch around my playstyle so I can be more consistent since I generally have either really strong games where I obvtown with solid reads or I just manage to fuck up the game so hard that town falls into a rut.

I never actually said I'd replace out if I was scum. I meant understanding when I said resonate.

↑ Ankamius wrote:

↑ Zachrulez wrote:I don't even need to claim tokens. I'm just going to outright say I'd have swapped out of a scum role by now.

I can say exactly the same thing (and it's provable). Would you say that's a strong argument for me being town?

Um, you kinda did.

Damn it Tammy you found it before I did.

Oh, I wasn't counting that because I said it purely to make a point.

Point taken though, I guess.

What point were you trying to make?

↑ Zachrulez wrote:

From what I remember from YOLO way back when, you kind of figure out CES is scum when you can't really see him fitting into the game as town. That's how I remember working him out as scum there.

This. And there's a really subtle underhanded manipulativeness to him when he's scum.

I mean I guess that's true for everyone, but.