DBZ: Cell Games [Over]

[Gamma Emerald]

Hmph. You whippersnappers talk a lot.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

excuse me?

[Bell]

Sure.
Gamma sounds fairly similar but is relatively inactive so I can’t get much of a bead there.

Sb9 is just on v/la so I have no opinion.
Dunstral is a quip machine of some kind this game. I have not played with dunnstrall I scum read him recently, but, nope he was still town.

[Bell]

I outright missed the mwnn rep out. So I haven’t thought about it.

[Oil Tycoons]

Wanna talk out some of the others with me?

Noraa - certainly talks a lot. Not AI for her. Seemed happy at the start of the early game, not sure if she can fake that as scum now. Didn't like the doublevoting thing. Reminds me of Death Scroll fuckery.
Sugar Kain - No experience with either head recently. Your thoughts?
BM - Definitely different from both games I've experienced with him. Not sure what that says about his alignment this game. Nacho has a serious hate on (scumread) for him, but I'm unconvinced. Wouldn't mind having a conversation with him.
Mastina - have completely outsourced this read to Nacho for reasons. What's off to you?
Flea - Nacho has a hard townread here and I haven't seen anything from faer to make me want to effort disagreeing with him. Mind, last time I talked to him was last weekend. You're thinking town too?

Guillo - Everyone's got a hate on for this guy but I haven't seen a good reason why. He needs to let go of the Noraa thing and talk to cooler heads though.

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah you're gonna have to tell me why I'm your vote out of everyone syr

[Oil Tycoons]

Hmph. You whippersnappers talk a lot.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

excuse me?

Hi. Why do you townread Battle Mage? Why do you scumread Sugar Kain? Do you have any other reads you'd like to share?

[Oil Tycoons]

Wanna talk out some of the others with me?

Noraa - certainly talks a lot. Not AI for her. Seemed happy at the start of the early game, not sure if she can fake that as scum now. Didn't like the doublevoting thing. Reminds me of Death Scroll fuckery.
Sugar Kain - No experience with either head recently. Your thoughts?
BM - Definitely different from both games I've experienced with him. Not sure what that says about his alignment this game. Nacho has a serious hate on (scumread) for him, but I'm unconvinced. Wouldn't mind having a conversation with him.
Mastina - have completely outsourced this read to Nacho for reasons. What's off to you?
Flea - Nacho has a hard townread here and I haven't seen anything from faer to make me want to effort disagreeing with him. Mind, last time I talked to him was last weekend. You're thinking town too?

Guillo - Everyone's got a hate on for this guy but I haven't seen a good reason why. He needs to let go of the Noraa thing and talk to cooler heads though.

This was at Bell, but anyone can feel free to chime in on this.

[Guillotina]

Guillotina, you're hardclaiming PR at several points now and "[youre] important".

you also say that you do this as VT to draw the night kill...

Why claim so quickly under no pressure and why do so to avoid votes? Why not prod and poke the votes on you, gather information, throw out that information while building cases and pushing your scumreads to give town something to work with?

I'm not doing so to avoid votes, I've been getting votes since way before I softed. I'm softing because I'm aware that my role could be important and by the way I read the thread there is an imminent threat that I could get miseliminated, or maybe I'm just Vanilla but I wanna keep playing. Who knows? I'm a creative person.

[Guillotina]

My break is almost up. I gotta get ready. Talk laters.

[mastina]

b) we're way off base

This is more or less my fear, plan on explaining it once I'm caught up.

[mastina]

Are you actually calling for a lim on me for not reading on V/LA?

Sort-of, yes.

[kookiemonster]

Mastina help me case Guillo. You are far better at casing and convincing people than me. Plsssssssssss *puppy eyes*

-nornortheadorablepupper

[kookiemonster]

I am certain guillo is scum. pls help me.

-plsssssssss

[Titus]

I kinda want Dunn and Oil actually.

Why Dunn?

He's not VLA and he has no presence.

[Titus]

Hmph. You whippersnappers talk a lot.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Oil, is it bad for the game if you became conftown?

[Titus]

Bad vote oil. your options are me or Guillotina currently, unless you want to try and generate a flashwagon so we don't have to SSGSS a wagon for the second combatant.

My options are whatever I want them to be. We have two days on the clock, 2 more days for the second combatant, and no need for a consensus to get someone into the arena.

Flea, would this game improve if you were conftown?

Make sure G and Oil answer this as well.

Also Titus would like your input.

I will answer this if and only if Titus explains what the point of the question is.

If I trusted you and had a private way to answer, I would. Sadly, only one of those is true.

Still, your refusal is very scum indicative. I don't require a reason. Just your opinion. Is a conftown Oil good or bad for the game?

[Titus]

G, I need your response as well. Is a conftown G good or bad for the game?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hmph. You whippersnappers talk a lot.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

excuse me?

Hi. Why do you townread Battle Mage? Why do you scumread Sugar Kain? Do you have any other reads you'd like to share?

BM seems pretty active and earnest so far, this isn't like his scumgame against me where he played UtR
Sugar Cain (Nero Cain head to be specific) seems a bit similar to when I played as scum with him in Micro 887
for other I think kookiemonster is town, Flea seems scummy but I'm not really sold on that atp, Bell I thought town early but has fallen off it seems (based on activity overview), Titus and mastina both seem towny, guilo I had a turnaround on iirc where I thought him town but now think he's scum

[mastina]

Mastina help me case Guillo. You are far better at casing and convincing people than me. Plsssssssssss *puppy eyes*

There's a problem with that:
Casing people requires me to actually be sure they're scum, and while I know people tend to think that when I latch onto a scumread, I don't let it go...I actually DO end up sometimes actually getting such strong doubts that I can't make the strong push on them anymore.

In this game particularly, I'm struggling to get a reasonable solve or even a consistent townbloc.

To wit,

Spoiler: compare these reads I have zero-to-minimal doubt on...

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)
^This is Noraa's towngame through and through. Their everything is town. This is well beyond Noraa's scumrange because she can't perform this well and even Johnny is looking town in the few posts he makes. Noraa is actively scumhunting here rather than just blanket-OMGUSing and she's actively trying to reach out to others and convince them that she's right and is actually sorting people with good reasoning and actual basis behind her pushes and her reads. It is a level beyond what she's ever shown as scum and as I said previously, she radiates a town aura of being happy, when she loathes scum and is thoroughly burned out from multiple repeated scum PMs in a short duration.

Dunnstral
^While Dunnstral is slightly less active than my preference, I still think that this is solidly Dunn as town. He is one of the only slots I have no doubt on. This is a, reasonably active, Dunnstral who is pretty solvey in his posts and pushes and is being his normal reasonable town self.

Bell
^While I am not as intimately familiar with Bell as I'd prefer to be, this is a fairly active Bell who seems to have full confidence in his townness (a la MBOS10 (contrast superbowl9 who does not give that same energy from that game at all). He is being reasonably active and his contributions are reasonably good. Having seen him as scum twice, I can say this looks like neither of his scumgames.

...To those I DO have doubt on:

Battle Mage
^While my thought is that Battle Mage's fights are town, even TvT, I know I can't read him, and there is paranoia that his pushes come from scum. I can see the conviction behind them being from him as town, but I also know he will make posts that have conviction as scum. And, someone needs to be scum, so it could be him. But, my instinct does say town because the pushes he is making, though not all good, all seem to be sincere which makes me think more town than scum.

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)
^While I am far from alone in thinking the content of the hydra sucks ass, there are a couple of things making me doubt that they're scum. Notably,
1: I believe that I'm basically the closest thing the slot has to an ally? Is literally everyone suspicious of them? It certainly seems that way; I may be remembering incorrectly, but I don't remember so much as a single slot defending them and a ton of slots attacking them. Meaning, either they're town or scum are willing to bus them.
2: the push with their intervention in BM v Flea felt incredibly out of place if they're scum--it doesn't make sense with any combination of Flea/BM's alignments with Oil Tycoons. Not scum-BM, not scum-Flea, not town-both, and certainly not scum-both. That intervention does nothing for Oil Tycoons in any of those combinations.
3: The reachouts made to slots like me. I realize it's not impossible for scum to make reachouts like that, but the reachouts instantly made me doubt my scumread there and think town.

Gamma Emerald
^While I liked Gamma's early content and to some extent still like it now, he's far from locktown and my defense of him from Guillotina was exaggerated. Tho I genuinely did see the things in him I said I did, I'm not as sure about them as I appeared; there was doubt in my mind, and

someone

needs to be scum. So he's a candidate for that.

Firebringer
^I can say that I've liked everything Firebringer has done content-wise, but I can't read him worth shit. I'll say that I do like his chosen gimmick for this game tho; it does put a smile on my face and is genuinely entertaining and amusing. (The abrasiveness towards others, less so, but I cannot blame him for it.)

Titus
^I really, really liked Titus's content, but while everything she's said has resonated with me, one thing is keeping her from being in the town group: by gut, something tonally feels 'off' about Titus. The things she's said are good! Her reads are solid, her reasoning is great, and her stances are good. She's being fairly reasonable and doing things that do look town. But gut-wise, something tonally seems off about her, and I can't place it beyond a feeling of something there being artificial.

Flea The Magician
^Flea is a slot that I townread because faer content does look town to me. I've liked faer tone, I've liked faer reasoning, I've liked faer pushes, I'm liking everything fae is putting forward. But I admit there is a lack of familiarity, and yes, I do see the similarities between this game and Among Us that Battle Mage is pushing fae for. However, it also seems subtly different. Are the differences just due to being a different scumgame? Possible, but overall I do lean towards the slight differences being due to Flea being town. It's not a locktown read tho.

Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)
^When Nero posted, I mentally noted in my list of Nero-tells that this looked like Nero as town. But every time I reviewed prior Nero games, I came to doubt it. Yet when reading his iso here, I came to see it again. Overall, Nero's less active here than he should be; Nero's content seems to be slightly lacking in some things that could indicate scum; Momrangal while present now was largely absent, in a way similar to the previous Sugar Cain scumgame where Mom was largely absent and Nero did most of the posting.

However, while some aspects of Nero's posting seems flat in the way typical of his scumgame, other aspects of his play still resonate with me as town. The indignance I'd expect from Nero as town, though more subdued, is still present. So while I am slightly conflicted, I still think that, overall, this is Sugar Cain as town, because I still think that I am seeing the right things for Nero being town.

Guillotina
^Guillotina's a slot I was strongly scumreading, by both gut and also through their lackluster content on multiple levels. Their posting felt forced and faked, and I hated how their readslist had inverse proportion to reads as it should--it had three town when it should've had three scum, and five scum when it should've had five town. I disliked the reads and the reasoning within at the time and Guillotina's response to pressure is terrible.

Furthermore, Guillotina's shown multiple inconsistencies, such as "I try not to use meta" when using a bunch of meta, and saying that their game is constantly being changed up, while resembling a past game of theirs. There's numerous such inconsistencies throughout their iso and I can see exactly why they look like scum from these trends.

So why the doubt?

For a start--while Guillotina's hyper-aggro towards me when pointing this out wasn't town, Guillotina did raise a good point: Guillotina did in fact risk getting mod-replaced/modkilled in that one area with the, what's the best term to use? Loophole abuse? Angleshooting? Guillotina genuinely went out of their way to get mod clarification on the rules, in a way that scum did have no reason to do and I can see town having reason to.

More than that, the way Guillotina handled my slot seemed genuine as well, where Guillotina by the end was reaching out to me, and the way Guillotina was handling things seemed hugely town. Guillotina's content since then has also had huge shades of townness, from the general handling of the game and stances taken that feel sincere, genuine, and based at least a little in fact.

Plus, in hindsight: I don't actually disagree with Guillotina's readslist as much as I thought,

and

, I am, currently, ironically: in a state where my own reads due to being in disarray, are actually similar to the very thing I attacked Guillotina for, in not having enough town, being too incoherent, being too uncohesive, etc. So I can not hold that against Guillotina.

(Not included: Superbowl9, as a read that I see as unambiguously scum)

I'll try to put these thoughts into a readslist next post.

[Gamma Emerald]

okay hold up, mastina's post made me re-check the activity overview and Bell's been more active than I thought, just not at like top 3 posters
so scratch my TR deterioration on Bell

[mastina]

Spoiler: spoiled for readability

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)
^This is Noraa's towngame through and through. Their everything is town. This is well beyond Noraa's scumrange because she can't perform this well and even Johnny is looking town in the few posts he makes. Noraa is actively scumhunting here rather than just blanket-OMGUSing and she's actively trying to reach out to others and convince them that she's right and is actually sorting people with good reasoning and actual basis behind her pushes and her reads. It is a level beyond what she's ever shown as scum and as I said previously, she radiates a town aura of being happy, when she loathes scum and is thoroughly burned out from multiple repeated scum PMs in a short duration.

Dunnstral
^While Dunnstral is slightly less active than my preference, I still think that this is solidly Dunn as town. He is one of the only slots I have no doubt on. This is a, reasonably active, Dunnstral who is pretty solvey in his posts and pushes and is being his normal reasonable town self.

Bell
^While I am not as intimately familiar with Bell as I'd prefer to be, this is a fairly active Bell who seems to have full confidence in his townness (a la MBOS10 (contrast superbowl9 who does not give that same energy from that game at all). He is being reasonably active and his contributions are reasonably good. Having seen him as scum twice, I can say this looks like neither of his scumgames.

Battle Mage
^While my thought is that Battle Mage's fights are town, even TvT, I know I can't read him, and there is paranoia that his pushes come from scum. I can see the conviction behind them being from him as town, but I also know he will make posts that have conviction as scum. And, someone needs to be scum, so it could be him. But, my instinct does say town because the pushes he is making, though not all good, all seem to be sincere which makes me think more town than scum.

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)
^While I am far from alone in thinking the content of the hydra sucks ass, there are a couple of things making me doubt that they're scum. Notably,
1: I believe that I'm basically the closest thing the slot has to an ally? Is literally everyone suspicious of them? It certainly seems that way; I may be remembering incorrectly, but I don't remember so much as a single slot defending them and a ton of slots attacking them. Meaning, either they're town or scum are willing to bus them.
2: the push with their intervention in BM v Flea felt incredibly out of place if they're scum--it doesn't make sense with any combination of Flea/BM's alignments with Oil Tycoons. Not scum-BM, not scum-Flea, not town-both, and certainly not scum-both. That intervention does nothing for Oil Tycoons in any of those combinations.
3: The reachouts made to slots like me. I realize it's not impossible for scum to make reachouts like that, but the reachouts instantly made me doubt my scumread there and think town.

Gamma Emerald
^While I liked Gamma's early content and to some extent still like it now, he's far from locktown and my defense of him from Guillotina was exaggerated. Tho I genuinely did see the things in him I said I did, I'm not as sure about them as I appeared; there was doubt in my mind, and

someone

needs to be scum. So he's a candidate for that.

Firebringer
^I can say that I've liked everything Firebringer has done content-wise, but I can't read him worth shit. I'll say that I do like his chosen gimmick for this game tho; it does put a smile on my face and is genuinely entertaining and amusing. (The abrasiveness towards others, less so, but I cannot blame him for it.)

Titus
^I really, really liked Titus's content, but while everything she's said has resonated with me, one thing is keeping her from being in the town group: by gut, something tonally feels 'off' about Titus. The things she's said are good! Her reads are solid, her reasoning is great, and her stances are good. She's being fairly reasonable and doing things that do look town. But gut-wise, something tonally seems off about her, and I can't place it beyond a feeling of something there being artificial.

Flea The Magician
^Flea is a slot that I townread because faer content does look town to me. I've liked faer tone, I've liked faer reasoning, I've liked faer pushes, I'm liking everything fae is putting forward. But I admit there is a lack of familiarity, and yes, I do see the similarities between this game and Among Us that Battle Mage is pushing fae for. However, it also seems subtly different. Are the differences just due to being a different scumgame? Possible, but overall I do lean towards the slight differences being due to Flea being town. It's not a locktown read tho.

Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)
^When Nero posted, I mentally noted in my list of Nero-tells that this looked like Nero as town. But every time I reviewed prior Nero games, I came to doubt it. Yet when reading his iso here, I came to see it again. Overall, Nero's less active here than he should be; Nero's content seems to be slightly lacking in some things that could indicate scum; Momrangal while present now was largely absent, in a way similar to the previous Sugar Cain scumgame where Mom was largely absent and Nero did most of the posting.

However, while some aspects of Nero's posting seems flat in the way typical of his scumgame, other aspects of his play still resonate with me as town. The indignance I'd expect from Nero as town, though more subdued, is still present. So while I am slightly conflicted, I still think that, overall, this is Sugar Cain as town, because I still think that I am seeing the right things for Nero being town.

Guillotina
^Guillotina's a slot I was strongly scumreading, by both gut and also through their lackluster content on multiple levels. Their posting felt forced and faked, and I hated how their readslist had inverse proportion to reads as it should--it had three town when it should've had three scum, and five scum when it should've had five town. I disliked the reads and the reasoning within at the time and Guillotina's response to pressure is terrible.

Furthermore, Guillotina's shown multiple inconsistencies, such as "I try not to use meta" when using a bunch of meta, and saying that their game is constantly being changed up, while resembling a past game of theirs. There's numerous such inconsistencies throughout their iso and I can see exactly why they look like scum from these trends.

So why the doubt?

For a start--while Guillotina's hyper-aggro towards me when pointing this out wasn't town, Guillotina did raise a good point: Guillotina did in fact risk getting mod-replaced/modkilled in that one area with the, what's the best term to use? Loophole abuse? Angleshooting? Guillotina genuinely went out of their way to get mod clarification on the rules, in a way that scum did have no reason to do and I can see town having reason to.

More than that, the way Guillotina handled my slot seemed genuine as well, where Guillotina by the end was reaching out to me, and the way Guillotina was handling things seemed hugely town. Guillotina's content since then has also had huge shades of townness, from the general handling of the game and stances taken that feel sincere, genuine, and based at least a little in fact.

Plus, in hindsight: I don't actually disagree with Guillotina's readslist as much as I thought,

and

, I am, currently, ironically: in a state where my own reads due to being in disarray, are actually similar to the very thing I attacked Guillotina for, in not having enough town, being too incoherent, being too uncohesive, etc. So I can not hold that against Guillotina.

(Not included: Superbowl9, as a read that I see as unambiguously scum)

Loosely:
kookiemonster
Dunnstral
Bell

Sugar Cain
Battle Mage
Flea the Magician
Oil Tycoons

Firebringer (no clue where to place him honestly)
Guillotina
Titus
Gamma Emerald

(huge gap)

superbowl9

Loosely:
locktown, town-with-reservations, look-town-but-SOMEONE-needs-to-be-scum-and-this-pool-is-best-guess, scum.

I realize it's not good enough, so want people to engage with my reasons here.

[Battle Mage]

yup. while the others vote for a winner and loser.

You're not on todays considerations, why try and gain towncred?

you're saying im not on todays considerations? didnt you just say i was your number 1 pick for scum? get your story straight

PS: I'm not "trying to gain towncred", I'm just town.

[Battle Mage]

Bad vote oil. your options are me or Guillotina currently, unless you want to try and generate a flashwagon so we don't have to SSGSS a wagon for the second combatant.

My options are whatever I want them to be.

We have two days on the clock, 2 more days for the second combatant, and no need for a consensus to get someone into the arena.

Flea, would this game improve if you were conftown?

Make sure G and Oil answer this as well.

Also Titus would like your input.

I will answer this if and only if Titus explains what the point of the question is

.

why are we not flipping this?

[Gamma Emerald]

okay looking at mastina's reads more, there's a LOT of waffling/hedging on her reads

[Battle Mage]

Wanna talk out some of the others with me?

Noraa - certainly talks a lot. Not AI for her. Seemed happy at the start of the early game, not sure if she can fake that as scum now. Didn't like the doublevoting thing. Reminds me of Death Scroll fuckery.
Sugar Kain - No experience with either head recently. Your thoughts?
BM - Definitely different from both games I've experienced with him. Not sure what that says about his alignment this game. Nacho has a serious hate on (scumread) for him, but I'm unconvinced. Wouldn't mind having a conversation with him.
Mastina - have completely outsourced this read to Nacho for reasons. What's off to you?
Flea - Nacho has a hard townread here and I haven't seen anything from faer to make me want to effort disagreeing with him. Mind, last time I talked to him was last weekend. You're thinking town too?

Guillo - Everyone's got a hate on for this guy but I haven't seen a good reason why. He needs to let go of the Noraa thing and talk to cooler heads though.

Syryana where have you been? your hydra buddy has killed your slot deader than a dodo. Can you redeem it?

I am happy to talk with you anytime, but please sign your posts so I know who is who.