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Problem with Riven is that she can get countered if you pick her too early. You pick Riven, they'll nab Olaf or Kennen or Udyr, and you're done.

Yorick doesn't ever LOSE lanes, but he's limited in how much of a power house he can be.

↑ xRECKONERx wrote:Problem with Riven is that she can get countered if you pick her too early. You pick Riven, they'll nab Olaf or Kennen or Udyr, and you're done.

This is true for pretty much every top ever. And competent riven>competent olaf.

No fucking way. When Riven goes in for damage, you just nuke her face off with true damage.

It's the other way around - dodge olaf axes, once his q is on cd you don't let him pick it up and outrade him. Riven's better in trading once olaf's q is down.

↑ PJ. wrote:

↑ JDodge wrote:

↑ Staeg wrote:

↑ PJ. wrote:What is a good carry for solo queue from top lane?

I like using olaf or riven for this purpose.

P-edit: oh, yeah, if you SOMEHOW lose your lane as olaf, go triple gp10, acquire money, kill bitches, explode nexus.

Looking at it from an (admittably unreliable) statistical perspective, the correct answers are Rumble (59.54% chance of winning, highest solo queue win rate), Malphite (55.65%, 2nd), and Yorick (53.57%, 8th). Olaf (46.56%, 86th) and Riven (48.78%, 65th) are statistically bad picks.

I'll try to see if I can sort out some data specifically for our elo though, Panzer.

Well, winning is good but I mean like carrying. Like my other roles aren't playing good so i need corral these chucklefucks together and kill bitchs. Yorick and Malph seem like guys that you need teammates. (i'd definitely consider learning both yorick and malph for ONM obv, but it wasn't exactly what i was asking.)

I don't seem to be understanding what you're saying since I'm going on the assumption that you're not trying to say "I don't care if I win I just want to be the big star of the team". Are you willing to clarify a bit more?

Note that some data is incredibly unreliable due to insufficient sample size (either Heimerdinger is the most ridiculously underrated champion in the game or his 4th-highest solo queue win rate is due to the people who play him knowing their shit really, really well; none of the champions mentioned here fall under that similar condition, though.

Very good early game champions that scale well are the ones you need. That's primarily why I said Riven. I'm iffy on top lane though so I can't really help much more than that.

In about 12 and a half hours from this post (4 PM EDT) I will be casting the novice match for this week's edition of /r/SummonerSchool's Saturday Night Scrims series. Watch as I prove once and for all that I can commentate low-level matches without being a condescending asshole!

Will give out stream info once I know for sure where we're streaming and have the info for myself.

Ankamius wrote:Very good early game champions that scale well are the ones you need. That's primarily why I said Riven. I'm iffy on top lane though so I can't really help much more than that.

Nah. Champions that are hard to shut down that also have game-changing abilities (see: Rumble, Malphite, Yorick) and champions whose utility scales into lategame regardless of how underfarmed/fed they are (Amumu, Sona) tend to end up pretty high on the solo queue win rate charts based on the data I've been watching.

The simple fact of the matter is that the concept of carrying a solo queue game is not one that has an obvious solution - it doesn't necessarily matter if you go 10/2/8 if the rest of your team has fed to oblivion. If you accept that games like that will happen and are unavoidable, then your focus must necessarily shift to games where the rest of your team legitimately retarded. A good way to ensure a higher win rate in those games is to pick champions that help boost the effectiveness of the other members of your team, while not getting shat on yourself (unless, of course, you're mystifyingly last pick and the rest of the team has picked a bunch of no-damage utility champs, in which case you're probably screwed and probably dreaming) - so doing allows for you to increase your win rate in the pool of winnable games, which is much more effective in the long run than trying to scalp one or two off the pool of unwinnable games, or at least that's the conclusion I've come to from my own personal experience and observation of solo queue win rate data.

^Agree 100%

Tonight I return to LoL.

goddammit

This thread is about to go from bad to worse.

I can't fucking buy a win in ranked anymore...every team is just downright terrible

you know that's not the way it works

I feel your pain Panzer.

In other news. New Xin is cool funs. Push everyone away. 1v4 in jungle, get kill, flash over wall and be happy fun time.

↑ PJ. wrote:I can't fucking buy a win in ranked anymore...every team is just downright terrible

You're right, the thread DID go from bad to worse.

↑ mykonian wrote:you know that's not the way it works

I understand that..and before I didn't but you haven't been in these games.

↑ JDodge wrote:In about 12 and a half hours from this post (4 PM EDT) I will be casting the novice match for this week's edition of /r/SummonerSchool's Saturday Night Scrims series. Watch as I prove once and for all that I can commentate low-level matches without being a condescending asshole!

Will give out stream info once I know for sure where we're streaming and have the info for myself.

Ankamius wrote:Very good early game champions that scale well are the ones you need. That's primarily why I said Riven. I'm iffy on top lane though so I can't really help much more than that.

Nah. Champions that are hard to shut down that also have game-changing abilities (see: Rumble, Malphite, Yorick) and champions whose utility scales into lategame regardless of how underfarmed/fed they are (Amumu, Sona) tend to end up pretty high on the solo queue win rate charts based on the data I've been watching.

The simple fact of the matter is that the concept of carrying a solo queue game is not one that has an obvious solution - it doesn't necessarily matter if you go 10/2/8 if the rest of your team has fed to oblivion. If you accept that games like that will happen and are unavoidable, then your focus must necessarily shift to games where the rest of your team

isn't

legitimately retarded. A good way to ensure a higher win rate in those games is to pick champions that help boost the effectiveness of the other members of your team, while not getting shat on yourself (unless, of course, you're mystifyingly last pick and the rest of the team has picked a bunch of no-damage utility champs, in which case you're probably screwed and probably dreaming) - so doing allows for you to increase your win rate in the pool of winnable games, which is much more effective in the long run than trying to scalp one or two off the pool of unwinnable games, or at least that's the conclusion I've come to from my own personal experience and observation of solo queue win rate data.

My thought process was on the idea that the more lanes you win, the more chances you have to win the game. I still maintain that a lot of the game is a battle on morale, and winning lanes can be a big morale boost. I wasn't necessarily saying that people should focus on winning the unwinnable games, only that choosing champions that are good at getting leads early and can scale to remain effective even if you don't get a big lead is fairly good.

I don't really think going a more utility role is very effective when you have a near guarantee that your team is bad. Sure you can save them a few times, but there's no guarantee that they'll make a game-losing mistake despite it in a way that makes your utility basically useless.

There is no easier way to get a losing team to a victory then placing one single good mummy ult, malph ult, sona ult etc, acing their team and taking 2 towers afterwards. You need only one moment in the whole game where you cc them all and they are sitting ducks for your otherwise lame team and suddenly morale is back and everything goes right. Press R to win, at exactly the right moment.

I'm with Ankamius.... If your ADC is retarded at positioning and your AP carry is underfamed cause he's bad, that ONE mummy ult or ONE malphite ult will do...... shit. It'll keep the enemy in place but your team is bad and there's nothing to CAPITALIZE on it. I can't tell you how many perfect Lee kick's I've done in a line and had shit happen afterward.

Whereas if you snowball with a champ like Riven early enough, get two BTs, you can pretty much solo their entire team WHILE your derpmates who can AT LEAST use their CC during a team fight set it up for you to win.


Look at it this way:

You have a good player and a bad player on your team.


Would you rather have the Good player be amumu, who can set-up 5man ults with the bad player who can't do enough damage or position well enough to capitlize?

Or would you rather have the bad player be amumu, who can AT LEAST press R with at LEAST 2-3 important members caught in it, and have YOU be the good player who will clean up and go after priority targets and aim skillshots and use summoners effectively to win the teamfigh since YOU do the damage?

It's really a no-brainer.

I have no faith in statistics for solo queue anyway. Take Riven and Olaf, very POPULAR tops, so if someone's last pick or is left in the top role, *shrug guess I'll pick Riven/Olaf they are popular* and play suboptimally and lose their lane to a matchup they should win because they are inexperienced (to an Yorick, to a Rumble, etc.) and end up losing the game because.

If Yorick were more popular his winrate would go way down, because more average and below average players would play as him and LOSE as him. As it stands most Yoricks play Yorick because they want to win and he's a broken as fuck champion, and has a broken teamfight ult.

That's what it seems to be for the 1000-1500 Elo range anyway, where winning your lane and morale is MUCH more important than having a good teamfight comp, because of the morale spiral that occurs when losing lane leading to even dumber engagements and a snowball defeat.

Yorick is more played than Olaf.

Also, your point on those statistics isn't supported by data. Among the 35 champions with an above-average rate of play, 18 have a win rate above 50% as well; this implies that there is no correlation between the amount a champion is played and win rate in and of itself.

@Fate: I'm of the opinion that it's harder to initiate a fight properly then to rightclick or throw damage spells into a team.

↑ mykonian wrote:@Fate: I'm of the opinion that it's harder to initiate a fight properly then to rightclick or throw damage spells into a team.

No, see, every moron can do the latter, but you to do it properly you need to actually live to deliver more than 1 spell/2 autos

The non-data points are the best ones in that post and they're pretty much universally true.

pre-show is ongoing now, can be found here:

http://www.own3d.tv/SNSS

I'll be on in about 45 minutes or so with the novice match.